Ottawa & Carolina swap

[CrocRob]

As per tsn.ca

Senators have acquired defenceman Mike Commodore and forward Cory Stillman in exchange for defenceman Joe Corvo and forward Patrick Eaves.

That's a tough pill to take for those who were looking at a division championship this season.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

The Senators just got tougher and better. So when did Stillman become available?

Brian Murray made a beauty me thinks.

Cheers.

[franko]

disgruntled70shab said:

The Senators just got tougher and better. So when did Stillman become available?

Brian Murray made a beauty me thinks.

Cheers.

Exactly. So don't tell me there aren't trades to be made.

I'm heading back to my November sig line . . .

[jkr]

Stillman & Commodore both UFA. I really like the p/u of Stillman.

Not sure what's left on Corvo's deal & I can't check (at work ).

Does it free up enough money for Redden?

[franko]

jkr said:

Stillman & Commodore both UFA. I really like the p/u of Stillman.

Not sure what's left on Corvo's deal & I can't check (at work ).

Does it free up enough money for Redden?

I think Redden's gone.

He won't be offered near the 6.5M he's making by Ottawa . . . but someone else will give him near.

[CentreHice]

Good move by Murray.

Rutherford's finally changing up the core that won the Cup. They missed the playoffs last year and are flirting with it again. He got rid of two UFAs. I heard (from radio reports) that he was looking for a puck-moving d-man. He sees that in Corvo. Eaves is solid, but not integral to Ottawa's run, and so expendable.

Good trade for both....but helps Ottawa this year for sure.

Meanwhile, how are things going in Ho-Hum Habland?

[Disgruntled70sHab]

franko said:

disgruntled70shab said:

The Senators just got tougher and better. So when did Stillman become available?

Brian Murray made a beauty me thinks.

Cheers.

Exactly. So don't tell me there aren't trades to be made.

I'm heading back to my November sig line . . .

Not only did Murray make his team better, Franko, he brought in two Cup winners. These guys understand what commitment is necessary to win it all and they bring that to Ottawa with them.

Cheers.

[cigarviper]

disgruntled70shab said:

Not only did Murray make his team better, Franko, he brought in two Cup winners. These guys understand what commitment is necessary to win it all and they bring that to Ottawa with them.

Cheers.

They still won't be beat Detroit or Anaheim in a 7 game series.

centrehice said:

Meanwhile, how are things going in Ho-Hum Habland?

Well, we did spring two of our men from the pokey....

[franko]

centrehice said:

I heard (from radio reports) that he was looking for a puck-moving d-man. He sees that in Corvo. Eaves is solid, but not integral to Ottawa's run, and so expendable.

Carolina play-by-play guy just interviewed here.

Both players having les-than-stellar years and a change of scenery may just be the ticket.

Corvo will quarterback the PP

Good trade for both....but helps Ottawa this year for sure.

Great. Ottawa needed help.

[franko]

cigarviper said:

They still won't be beat Detroit or Anaheim in a 7 game series.

Well, they are a lot closer than they were . . . and a lot closer than we are.

[habmeister]

franko said:

cigarviper said:

They still won't be beat Detroit or Anaheim in a 7 game series.

Well, they are a lot closer than they were . . . and a lot closer than we are.

yes, but is close all you want franko?

[franko]

habmeister said:

franko said:

Well, they are a lot closer than they were . . . and a lot closer than we are.

yes, but is close all you want franko?

Nope -- I want the big prize,

At least Ottawa is making some steps/taking some chances. The Habs? Their next big step will be to recall Chips.

I know we aren't there yet fo rthis year . . . but this same team won't be there next year either.

[CrocRob]

Someone needs to explain to me what this team is supposed to look like, because the constant complaining about the state of the team -- without any suggestion as to what ought to be done to relieve it -- is maddening to me.

Wasn't the goal always to have a Cup-calibre team next season? Isn't that what Gainey said after the lockout?

[CentreHice]

redscull said:

Someone needs to explain to me what this team is supposed to look like, because the constant complaining about the state of the team -- without any suggestion as to what ought to be done to relieve it -- is maddening to me.

Wasn't the goal always to have a Cup-calibre team next season? Isn't that what Gainey said after the lockout?

I think many here make suggestions for improvement....from trade suggestions to use of current personnel suggestions.

Are you saying you're content with the development we're seeing...and you don't want Gainey to make any big moves to push a solid year so far into a fantastic year?

Are you confident what we'll have next year will do it?

[CrocRob]

I'll break the question down into several areas.


Am I content with the development I'm seeing?
Yes. I didn't expect this level of success, and nor did many people.

Do I want Gainey to make some "big moves"?
No. Successful teams that win championships more often than not go through some playoff disappointment first. This team, short of one or two players, doesn't know what it takes to win and deadline acquisitions rarely pay dividends when they're expected to pick up a significant portion of the scoring load.

Would I be upset if Gainey didn't make a move?
Frankly, no. I might be a little disappointed, but I wouldn't be upset. The offseason is the time to make transactions for this team, not the deadline. Unless we're going to acquire Hossa in a sign-and-trade, I'm not too interested in paying deadline prices that will only hurt the team in exchange for talent to have an outside shot to win this year. If you're holding this team as your poker hand (which in my estimation is probably a flush) are you going all-in with a pair on the board? Probably not. That's how I see this year. It's a good hand, but I think in the end it's a loser no matter what we add.

Am I confident that next year we'll have a what it takes to win it all?
I think the obvious answer is no. That being said, I think that the establishment of several players this season will provide the options required to add some talented depth to the core of the team. This team is more than one player away in my opinion, but if we can add some scoring talent to develop chemistry during next season, and add a defenseman at the deadline I don't see how the team could get much better short of a massive overhaul.

What would satisfy me this season?
A playoff series win.



In the interest of acquisition discussions, if I were going to target one player this season (again, short of Hossa in a sign-and-trade) I think it would be Barrett Jackman. A #3/4 defensive defenseman who's physical and tough would help the team overall.
Short of that, I would be looking at a two-way centre since I don't really think that Chipchura is going to do it next season.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

redscull said:

Someone needs to explain to me what this team is supposed to look like, because the constant complaining about the state of the team -- without any suggestion as to what ought to be done to relieve it -- is maddening to me.

Wasn't the goal always to have a Cup-calibre team next season? Isn't that what Gainey said after the lockout?

You know what, Red? Those two players would have helped address some of our toughness issues. I don't know what it would have cost going the other way, but Stillman was a captain at one time and Commodore is a top-4 defenceman.

Son of a gun.

Cheers.

[CrocRob]

disgruntled70shab said:

redscull said:

Someone needs to explain to me what this team is supposed to look like, because the constant complaining about the state of the team -- without any suggestion as to what ought to be done to relieve it -- is maddening to me.

Wasn't the goal always to have a Cup-calibre team next season? Isn't that what Gainey said after the lockout?

You know what, Red? Those two players would have helped address some of our toughness issues. I don't know what it would have cost going the other way, but Stillman was a captain at one time and Commodore is a top-4 defenceman.

Son of a gun.

Cheers.

But without considering the cost, it's totally a non-issue.
Ottawa acquired two UFA players, both of which they have little chance of re-signing, in exchange for two players who will now be property of Carolina for at least three years. Corvo especially being signed at a reasonable rate.

Would you be willing to trade a re-signed Mark Streit (Corvo) and Sergei Kostitsyn for Commodore and Stillman? Ottawa's at a different position because they're throwing their chips on the table to win it this year. That's not a prudent move for Montreal who isn't at the point where those kind of players are going to push them over the top.

[franko]

I'll bite.

redscull said:

Am I content with the development I'm seeing?
Yes. I didn't expect this level of success, and nor did many people.

First, I'm not sure whether I expected] this level of success (really, a hot January) or not, but I most certainly wanted to see it.

Am I content? No . . . because I'm not sure there is all that much development. It is still a fragile team, with little testicular fortitude, that rolls over when challenged, and that has not risen above an unacceptable level of mediocrity.

Do I want Gainey to make some "big moves"?

I want Gainey to make some moves. Was thinking about this earlier: a few years ago he traded away my favourite "up-and-comer" [Balej] for some underachieving yahoo [Kovy]. And it paid off. Since then . . . no jam. Playing it safe. And we are the same today as in past years. On the bubble.

Successful teams that win championships more often than not go through some playoff disappointment first.

But if this team is good enough to make it in and see what happens, how can it be disappointing if they lose? They don't expect to win!

This team, short of one or two players, doesn't know what it takes to win and deadline acquisitions rarely pay dividends when they're expected to pick up a significant portion of the scoring load.

Which is why I was looking for BG to do something around November! Trade deadline acquisitions are to help with the stretch run. Early season acquisitions get you to the run in the first place.

Would I be upset if Gainey didn't make a move?
Frankly, no. I might be a little disappointed, but I wouldn't be upset.

And I am as good as resigned to the fact that he won't. [surprise me, Bob!]

The offseason is the time to make transactions for this team, not the deadline.

Yup, and we've seen how that has panned out. Accepting 2nd and 3rd tier guys. Hammer excepted.

Unless we're going to acquire Hossa in a sign-and-trade, I'm not too interested in paying deadline prices that will only hurt the team in exchange for talent to have an outside shot to win this year. If you're holding this team as your poker hand (which in my estimation is probably a flush) are you going all-in with a pair on the board? Probably not. That's how I see this year. It's a good hand, but I think in the end it's a loser no matter what we add.

Which gets back to BG riding it out. That's not managing. Who was it that said may as well let Timmins draft and avoid a GM [c'mon -- I read it but I'm not going to search every thread for it ;D]

Am I confident that next year we'll have a what it takes to win it all?
I think the obvious answer is no.

The next year? The year after? Not if our management team continues its trend of not signing players (or signing them to one year deals), because by the time they are ready they'll be ready to go to a team that is (I can't believe I'm using the term I hate just about more than any other) proactive.

We have all these so-called resources on the farm and they'll rot there because they can't displace anyone on the Habs but won't be traded because it'll be a waste.

I'd rather trade and fail than sit and fail . . . and that's what this team is going to do. Even though I am not on HA's gloom and doom bandwagon, I am realistic. Action must be taken: A-C-T-I-O-N!

What would satisfy me this season?
A playoff series win.

Not me: I'm with HabSask all the way. Feeling good or giddy about a series win is like kissing your sister [not that I've ever done that]. Give me the real thing.

To get there: lose Breezy. And Kosto. Maybe even Smoke (sigh -- I'm so disappointed).

Pick up Hossa or someone that can score, someone that can take the pressure off the Kovy line, because let's face it, once that line is cold, we're toast.

[time for a break]

[Patty Roy]

disgruntled70shab said:

You know what, Red? Those two players would have helped address some of our toughness issues. I don't know what it would have cost going the other way, but Stillman was a captain at one time and Commodore is a top-4 defenceman.
[/quote]

Commodore maybe, but Stillman doesn't bring any toughness. He's a good fit with the Sens, but i'm not sure he's what the Habs need.

Would anyone here have given up say Streit/O'Byrne + Lats for that package?

There are deals to be made i believe...this one makes the Sens better today, which is all that matters to them...but i do believe that as an organization they are getting a bit thin.

[franko]

redscull said:

But without considering the cost, it's totally a non-issue.
Ottawa acquired two UFA players, both of which they have little chance of re-signing, in exchange for two players who will now be property of Carolina for at least three years. Corvo especially being signed at a reasonable rate.

Do they have little chance of resigning? Both have had off years, and may come to life with the Sens . . . and a chance at a Cup is big incentive to stay.

Would you be willing to trade a re-signed Mark Streit (Corvo) and Sergei Kostitsyn for Commodore and Stillman?

Streit -- yes. Kost -- no -- but we have others who could fill the bill.

Ottawa's at a different position because they're throwing their chips on the table to win it this year. That's not a prudent move for Montreal who isn't at the point where those kind of players are going to push them over the top.

But those kind of players are going to push them and make the team better, players who will bring the Habs from a bottom top ten team to a top five team.

[franko]

pattyroy said:

There are deals to be made i believe...this one makes the Sens better today, which is all that matters to them...but i do believe that as an organization they are getting a bit thin.

I think that free agancy can trump thinness. As can a dump of Gerber or Emery.

Foligno will easily replace Eaves (even though they play different wings).

[Patty Roy]

Ottawa is getting very close to the cap (for 08-09) and that doesn't include guys like Redden (UFA), Stillman (UFA), Commodore (UFA), Meszaros (RFA), Vermette (RFA), Kelly (RFA).

They will most definitely loose a few key players this offseason. Guys like Meszaros and Vermette could attract lucrative RFA offers from others clubs as Ottawa could be in a position where they have to walk away from 3-4 million per season deals for either player.

[CentreHice]

Thanks for your reply, redscull....excellent read.

Here's where I stand.

Other than the hurdle of beating Ottawa at their best, we've shown the capacity to compete extremely well against the rest of the East. Why not take a step to actually BE the second-best team in the Conference this year? Pittsburgh, Washington, and Philly are only going to get better....and the last time I looked, Hamilton didn't have an up-and-coming Crosby, Malkin, Ovechkin, Semin, Richards, or Carter.

I major in Realism and minor in Pessimism when it comes to the Habs, and yeah....with our current lineup playing well, we may win a playoff round. With Higgins-Koivu-Ryder not contributing down the stretch, we may not make the playoffs at all. (Mark my words.)

I'm not talking about decimating the team....but there are no superstars in Hamilton.....and beyond an almost 35-year old Kovalev, there is no superstar on the big team right now....let alone some big-time jam.

We're not the Oilers of the early 80's...loaded with talent and waiting for the Islanders to fizzle out.

Next year.....next year......next year.

[Marvin]

I totally agree with what redscull says, and it is basically what I've been preaching here. I would not touch anyone on this team - and I certainly wouldn't make a quick-fix trade. If we can't sign Ryder and we're going to lose him for nothing, I'm still ok with that. This team is being served by it's youth, and I have no doubt that there will be an able replacement in Hamilton, as well as another influx.

[IamCanadiens]

Sens fans gotta love the Stillman pick up. He has won cups with Tampa and Carolina, is a proven playoff performer, and regarded in high esteem by players. Quite a contrast from his early Flames years and his confidence issues......... In a funny way he reminds me of Claude Lemieux b/c of the championships that went wherever he did.

[seventeen]

franko said:

Which gets back to BG riding it out. That's not managing. Who was it that said may as well let Timmins draft and avoid a GM [c'mon -- I read it but I'm not going to search every thread for it ;D]

It was HA. Why do I remember? He pays me to do so. Not well, but I'm a UFA at the end of this season and I want at least a time share of HA's hurdy gurdy girls in order to watch his back.

[Skilly]

redscull said:

What would satisfy me this season?
A playoff series win.

Gainey has already accomplished this in his tenure with Montreal. I want more now .... I want to see us in the final four. That requires 2 series wins. A step forward to make up for the 2 steps back we took the last two seasons.

[Polarice]

I'm too tired this morning to read everyone's post on this subject, so I apologize if this has already been said.

Bottom line is Ottawa made themselves better, what are the Habs gonna do about it?

[Disgruntled70sHab]

redscull said:

disgruntled70shab said:

You know what, Red? Those two players would have helped address some of our toughness issues. I don't know what it would have cost going the other way, but Stillman was a captain at one time and Commodore is a top-4 defenceman.

Son of a gun.

Cheers.

But without considering the cost, it's totally a non-issue.
Ottawa acquired two UFA players, both of which they have little chance of re-signing, in exchange for two players who will now be property of Carolina for at least three years. Corvo especially being signed at a reasonable rate.

Would you be willing to trade a re-signed Mark Streit (Corvo) and Sergei Kostitsyn for Commodore and Stillman?

Like Franko I'd have to say, yes to Streit and no to Sergei. I mean, who do we have to replace a talent like Sergei?

Ottawa's at a different position because they're throwing their chips on the table to win it this year. That's not a prudent move for Montreal who isn't at the point where those kind of players are going to push them over the top.[/quote]
Have to agree with this, though. Our team is in a completely different situation than Ottawa right now. Ottawa has a much better chance of going over the top this year than last year. Stillman gives Mike Fisher a winger who can finish, while Commodore will bolster an already defensive-minded blueline.

Cheers.

[Douper]

Great trade by Murray. They basically got in a deal what we need. Top 6 Fwd and Top 4 dman. both with cup experience and not exp like a guy like Dandy has, these 2 were integral parts of the cup wins. Stillman as a clutch scorer and Commodore as a physical ronald Mcdonald look a like.

Granted I don't think these 2 players would put us over the top and the fact they are both UFA's in July doesn't help us for next year. I still think we need to pick up a LeCavalier, Hossa or Jokinen and get a long term deal in.

I don't think we'll be an elite team until we have Kovalev + another superstar up front. We are a mid ranged semi contender now.

I was just thinking of what kind of pressure the guys will face next year in the playoffs, 100th anniversary and let's say we win a round or 2 that pressure is just going to be really hard to bear in the Montreal media market. So whoever we do end up with he needs to be a strong leader with a great head on his shoulders. That leaves Patrick Marleau out.