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Post by Douper on Mar 12, 2002 22:59:20 GMT -5
The Dallas Stars have traded left-winger Martin Rucinsky and centre Roman Lyashenko to the New York Rangers for left-wingers Manny Malhotra and Barrett Heisten, the NHL team announced Tuesday night.
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Post by haborama on Mar 12, 2002 23:08:08 GMT -5
Good, I'm glad! Never liked the guy much for his floating (and still not putting up numbers) now I have an even better reason... HE'S A RANGER.
What's going on in Dallas anyways? Savard really raped 'em on that trade. Though I'd rather have Brunet than Van Allen, Audette over Rucinksy totally wipes that out. Brunet has been put on waivers and now Rucinsky off to Broadway.
I don't quite understand what Dallas was trying to do... first signing Audette and Turgeon (though he has picked it up as of late), trading Audette for that bum Rosie, and now trading Rosie. Whoops, almost forgot Kamensky!
Anyways, as for THIS trade, Good deal for Dallas. Malhotra is much better suited for the Big D.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Mar 12, 2002 23:31:17 GMT -5
mmmmmmmmmm!
Actually both Malhotra and Heistein are centers.
From a Rangers side I understand how they see Rosie being an upgrade on left wing (Matt Barnaby is actually on a scoring line there...hugh!).
From a Stars perspective? Getting 2 centers... With Modano, Turgeon, Newendike (sp?) and Muller... They're already weak on scoring wingers and they're now even weaker (though grittier)... They are dropping a UFA to be for some young guys which is good, but nonetheless weird for a team in a playoff race, looking to be a serious contender...
..me thinks there is more coming up from the Dallas front...
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Post by habwest on Mar 13, 2002 1:58:41 GMT -5
Wouldn't be surprised Doc. It looks to me that this is the beginning of a basic reshaping of the team that's aimed as much at the future as at this year's playoffs.
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Post by BadCompany on Mar 13, 2002 9:11:25 GMT -5
This will undoubtably be a minority opinion, but I would have taken the Malhotra/Heistein deal over Audette/Van Allen.
I am a pretty big fan of Manny Malhotra's, and think he was terribly wasted in New York. I see him as a more driven Chad Kilger, or a more talented Arron Asham, depending on which way you want to look at it. He will never be a big scorer, but he is big, he bangs, he's defensively aware, great character, decent on faceoffs, and can play center or wing. I think he would be just as good as Van Allen is now, and since he is only 21 now, he has lots of room to grow into a bigger Mike Keane type player. Averaging just over 10 minutes of ice time in New York, Malhotra has 106 hits. For comparison's sake, our leading hitter, Chad Kilger, has 138, in 7 more games, averaging about 2 and a half more minutes per game. Malhotra has 13 points, is -1, and has 42 minutes in penalties. Kilger has 19 points, is -6, and has 25 minutes in penalties. I am not saying to replace Kilger with Malhotra, but it would be some additional size and toughness to our lineup. Like I said, probably already better than Van Allen.
Audette is clearly a better player than Heisten, but I, for one, have not quite boughten into the "Audette will solve all our offensive woes" philosophy. Yes. Audette is a good offensive player, but he is not a great offensive player, and if you take away the 32 goals he scored playing for an expansion team during his UFA year, he has averaged just over 20 goals a season since 1994, most of those years injury-plagued. He got off to a great start joining Montreal, but then, so did Patrick Poulin.
Heisten is only 21, is another banger, and has decent offensive potential. We certainly lose out, short term, in the offensive upgrade, but I am not so sure it would be a huge offensive downgrade. I am not convinced Audette is anything more than another smallish, 20-25 goal scorer, in the Sergei Zholtok, Oleg Petrov, Valerie Bure mold. Heisten may never reach that levels, but in my opinion, getting the youth of Heisten and Malhotra, as well as their size and toughness, would have been more than worth it. Plus, we would have saved on Audette's $3 + million salary. Having the bigger, cheaper, younger Heisten score 15-20 goals would be better, in my mind, than having the smaller, much older, much more expensive and much more injury prone Audette score 20-25.
But that's just me.
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Post by Cranky on Mar 13, 2002 9:53:15 GMT -5
The Sather myth is wearing out pretty fast. This is going to be a very interesting trade for Rosie. If you think that the Hab fans where booing with gusto, the Ranger fans are going to riot.
The Legend-in-his-own-mind-Sather is dreaming that Rosie will click with Nedved and score 50. Yup, for sure, for sure, and I have two........
Manny was on the block for two years, if AS wanted him, he could of gotten him for cheap. At one point, I think he was on waivers, if not on, at least very close. Does AS think he is just another Ward? We have that already. Having said that, Sather-Low really mismanaged this kid. In fact, Manny did not really want to be there any more and showed it on the ice.
Every team needs grinders, the Valk-VanAllen type come pretty cheap but the young ones, with upside, are going to cost in older talent and draft choices. I don't think Manny has much more upside then Kilger. <br>
BC, Savard has The Simple Plan. His plan is very straight forward, improve the team now, make the playoffs and build the new wave behind it. In light of this, Audi makes sense. Getting a Manny type player, or developing one is easier then a someone who can score 25 goals. Especially in todays NHL.
The Simple Plan, The Simple Man, heck, TSM, TSP, Dis is going to feel right at home with this.
There is even a playing strategy, it's called TSGP.
The Simple Game Plan. Off the glass, down the ice, return, off the glass, down the ice, return. Repeat as often as possible until you put the other team and the fans to sleep.
You see now, it all fits in.
Now, if you can excuse me, I need to smack my head against the wall 2, 3, 400 times.
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Post by Pam on Mar 13, 2002 10:07:56 GMT -5
Out in this end of the Hockey universe, they say that Turgeon hasn't worked out in Dallas. There are tons of rumours Belfour will be traded. With the stuff he pulls on and off the ice, and his poor performance this season, any team that trades for Belfour has rocks in their head. The word is the Stars are trying to rebuild the team. That after the Stanley Cup in 1999 they've had to regroup and rebuild because they are going down hill. That's the reason why Hitch was fired. That's why they are admitting some of their acquistions were a mistake. Personally, if the Stars never made the Playoffs ever again, it would be too soon for me. I love seeing the Stars in this rut. I hope they stay there for many years. However, I do like Modano so I wouldn't mind seeing him in San Jose.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Mar 13, 2002 10:15:37 GMT -5
Audette is clearly a better player than Heisten, but I, for one, have not quite boughten into the "Audette will solve all our offensive woes" philosophy. Yes. Audette is a good offensive player, but he is not a great offensive player, and if you take away the 32 goals he scored playing for an expansion team during his UFA year, he has averaged just over 20 goals a season since 1994, most of those years injury-plagued. He got off to a great start joining Montreal, but then, so did Patrick Poulin. I must disagree on the Audette analysis. Aside from his 30 goals season of last year, Audette had a 31 g season in 92, a 29g season in ,94 and a 28 in '97. His overall carreer numbers are 240g in 622 games: .38goals per game, that is 30 goals scorer type stat. Is Audette the answer to all our offensive woes? Nope. Would Malhotra be? Nope, the guy is a checker. He might be an upgrade to our 3rd/4th lines, but these lines don't really need the upgrade (the Juneau line is arguably our best line and our 4th line plays 5 mins a game). Heisten is not much more then a far fetched project, would I want time invested in this guy rather Asham, Chouinard and Hossa? Not really. In essence, though I agree that Audette might not be all that we need, Malhotra isn't either but on the rate-these-player-that- don't-address-much scale, I give a higher score to Audette. |
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Post by BadCompany on Mar 13, 2002 12:43:50 GMT -5
I must disagree on the Audette analysis. Aside from his 30 goals season of last year, Audette had a 31 g season in 92, a 29g season in ,94 and a 28 in '97. His overall carreer numbers are 240g in 622 games: .38goals per game, that is 30 goals scorer type stat. <br> Is Audette the answer to all our offensive woes? Nope. Would Malhotra be? Nope, the guy is a checker. He might be an upgrade to our 3rd/4th lines, but these lines don't really need the upgrade (the Juneau line is arguably our best line and our 4th line plays 5 mins a game). Heisten is not much more then a far fetched project, would I want time invested in this guy rather Asham, Chouinard and Hossa? Not really. In essence, though I agree that Audette might not be all that we need, Malhotra isn't either but on the rate-these-player-that- don't-address-much scale, I give a higher score to Audette. Well, I think we can pretty much forget about any stats pre-1994. I mean, Joé Juneau was putting up 100 point seasons then. That was ten years ago, and unlike fine wines, snipers don't tend to get better as they age. Sure, Audette scores at a .38 goal per game pace. Brian Savage scores at .33.  The point is, neither one of them does it for full seasons on a consistant basis. We can make all the excuses we want, but Audette will not score 30 goals this year. I have serious doubts that he will score 30 next year, and I REALLY doubt he will score 30 the year after that, at the age of what? 35? 36? If I am wrong, so be it. I hope I am. But I wouldn't bet money on it. Audette is a diminishing return. Malhotra wouldn't be. Yes, he may never be more than a Chad Kilger type, but if there is one thing about Malhotra, its that his drive and effort have NEVER been questioned. Chad Kilger on top of his game, every game? How good would that be? Even if Malhotra isn't scoring goals, he brings toughness and hits and effort to every shift. Audette... well, Audette isn't bringing a whole lot to the team right now, is he? Since 1995 Audette has averaged about 57 games a year. Worse than Brian Savage. And I am not even counting this season. When Audette isn't scoring, he isn't bringing much to the table. We can accept that in a guy like Pavel Bure, or Teemu Selanne, because for the most part they score over 40 goals a year. Audette, by your own numbers, scores less than once every three games. What is he doing in the other games, when he isn't hurt? You are right, our 4th line doesn't play much, and our 3rd line is our best and shouldn't be touched. But where is the room for growth? Audette has 6 points for us, and while we can say "well, we didn't know he was going to get injured", the truth is, we DID know, or we should have known. Any team that trades for Saku Koivu knows he is going to get injured, and while Audette isn't nearly that bad, he is up there. Would you expect Benoit Brunet to play 82 games? Why would we expect Audette to? Instead of having Malhotra patrolling our 4th line (or maybe even providing some size on the top 2 lines), we have Van Allen. Instead of a good prospect, we have an injured and aging Audette. I didn't really like the deal at the time it was made, and I'll be honest with you, I haven't seen too much to make me like it now. Van Allen has been a useful role player, but we could have gotten a much younger, cheaper, faster and more enthusiastic kid to do the same job (I think at the time I wanted Jon Sim). If anything, Van Allen has blocked younger kids from getting a shot (like Asham). Audette is hurt, as should have been predicted, and his production ain't going to get better over the length of his contract. Rucinsky wasn't a great loss, I freely admit that, and while I like Benoit Brunet, he is clearly nearing the end of the line, but I would have looked at acquiring different assets, that is all. Having Malhotra in the lineup tomorrow against Dallas won't hurt our playoff hopes, and indeed could help them. Having Audette in the stands, well, that doesn't really help us, now does it? It wasn't a BAD deal per se, but given my druthers, I'd still take what the Stars got for Rucinsky over what we got. |
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Post by PTH on Mar 13, 2002 13:18:13 GMT -5
As usual, I'm with BadCo..... Dalls wins out in the two Rosie trades. Dallas has a couple of decent kids, and we have a smallish injury-prone aging winger on a big, long-term contract...
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Post by MPLABBE on Mar 13, 2002 15:44:05 GMT -5
Good, I'm glad! Never liked the guy much for his floating (and still not putting up numbers) now I have an even better reason... HE'S A RANGER. What's going on in Dallas anyways? Savard really raped 'em on that trade. Though I'd rather have Brunet than Van Allen, Audette over Rucinksy totally wipes that out. Brunet has been put on waivers and now Rucinsky off to Broadway. I don't quite understand what Dallas was trying to do... first signing Audette and Turgeon (though he has picked it up as of late), trading Audette for that bum Rosie, and now trading Rosie. Whoops, almost forgot Kamensky! <br> Anyways, as for THIS trade, Good deal for Dallas. Malhotra is much better suited for the Big D. I did not think I could find more reasons to hate Rucinsky, but this trade does just that!!! he is a Ranger and if they make the playoffs and Rucinsky gets hot playing with Nedved, I will hate that bum even more.Only play well with Czechs, god I hate him. I agree, good deal for Dallas.They want to play Maholtra with Turgeon and Lehtinen.That should give the kid confidence, people forget he is only 21.They also get a decent kid in Heisten.Lyashenko was not going to be a key player any time for them, while Rucinsky was a huge flop for them. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Mar 13, 2002 15:47:34 GMT -5
This will undoubtably be a minority opinion, but I would have taken the Malhotra/Heistein deal over Audette/Van Allen. I am a pretty big fan of Manny Malhotra's, and think he was terribly wasted in New York. I see him as a more driven Chad Kilger, or a more talented Arron Asham, depending on which way you want to look at it. He will never be a big scorer, but he is big, he bangs, he's defensively aware, great character, decent on faceoffs, and can play center or wing. I think he would be just as good as Van Allen is now, and since he is only 21 now, he has lots of room to grow into a bigger Mike Keane type player. Averaging just over 10 minutes of ice time in New York, Malhotra has 106 hits. For comparison's sake, our leading hitter, Chad Kilger, has 138, in 7 more games, averaging about 2 and a half more minutes per game. Malhotra has 13 points, is -1, and has 42 minutes in penalties. Kilger has 19 points, is -6, and has 25 minutes in penalties. I am not saying to replace Kilger with Malhotra, but it would be some additional size and toughness to our lineup. Like I said, probably already better than Van Allen. Audette is clearly a better player than Heisten, but I, for one, have not quite boughten into the "Audette will solve all our offensive woes" philosophy. Yes. Audette is a good offensive player, but he is not a great offensive player, and if you take away the 32 goals he scored playing for an expansion team during his UFA year, he has averaged just over 20 goals a season since 1994, most of those years injury-plagued. He got off to a great start joining Montreal, but then, so did Patrick Poulin. Heisten is only 21, is another banger, and has decent offensive potential. We certainly lose out, short term, in the offensive upgrade, but I am not so sure it would be a huge offensive downgrade. I am not convinced Audette is anything more than another smallish, 20-25 goal scorer, in the Sergei Zholtok, Oleg Petrov, Valerie Bure mold. Heisten may never reach that levels, but in my opinion, getting the youth of Heisten and Malhotra, as well as their size and toughness, would have been more than worth it. Plus, we would have saved on Audette's $3 + million salary. Having the bigger, cheaper, younger Heisten score 15-20 goals would be better, in my mind, than having the smaller, much older, much more expensive and much more injury prone Audette score 20-25. But that's just me. Only problem is that there is no way AS would have traded Rucinsky to our main rival for a playoff spot.That's just not like him. I also like Maholtra and Heisten.But they are nothing more than 3rd liners.What Dallas is doing is replacing dead wood(Dimao, Keane, Brunet soon Muller) on their 3rd-4th lines with young kids who will bring more energy to their team. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Mar 13, 2002 15:51:01 GMT -5
Out in this end of the Hockey universe, they say that Turgeon hasn't worked out in Dallas. There are tons of rumours Belfour will be traded. With the stuff he pulls on and off the ice, and his poor performance this season, any team that trades for Belfour has rocks in their head. The word is the Stars are trying to rebuild the team. That after the Stanley Cup in 1999 they've had to regroup and rebuild because they are going down hill. That's the reason why Hitch was fired. That's why they are admitting some of their acquistions were a mistake. Personally, if the Stars never made the Playoffs ever again, it would be too soon for me. I love seeing the Stars in this rut. I hope they stay there for many years. However, I do like Modano so I wouldn't mind seeing him in San Jose. Turgeon has been playing much better recently, Pam.Belfour will be gone at the end of the year, so Turco can take his spot.The Stars are an old team and they showed it last year and this year, they are a team on the decline.They need to rebuild.They don't have many prospects(Steve Ott is basically the only one) and I wouldn't be surprised at all if they continue adding young talent. By the way, it would be awesome to see both the Stars and Blues not make the playoffs and see the Flames, Oilers or Canucks make them. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Mar 13, 2002 15:53:59 GMT -5
As usual, I'm with BadCo..... Dalls wins out in the two Rosie trades. Dallas has a couple of decent kids, and we have a smallish injury-prone aging winger on a big, long-term contract... why are people comparing what we got for Rucinsky and what the Stars got for him? it's 2 separate deals.Don't forget, Dallas added Lyashenko, maybe Sather thinks he has Maholtra kind of potential.Nothing more than a 3rd liner.Also, I just don't think AS would have traded Rucinsky to our biggest rival to make the playoffs. |
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Post by MPLABBE on Mar 13, 2002 16:37:37 GMT -5
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Post by MPLABBE on Mar 13, 2002 16:41:43 GMT -5
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Post by MPLABBE on Mar 13, 2002 17:16:30 GMT -5
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Post by Cranky on Mar 13, 2002 20:47:09 GMT -5
test,
this thread seams to have a shadow.
Not a serious problem.
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Post by Bobs_HABit on Mar 13, 2002 22:04:51 GMT -5
Marty's played over 15 minutes through 2 periods. Looks like the Rangers are going to give him loads of ice time and see what he does with it. Oh by the way Rangers are down 2-0 and Rucinsky is -1.
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Post by Bobs_HABit on Mar 13, 2002 22:20:21 GMT -5
I've watched the first 5 minutes of the 3rd and Marty is actually skating hard. He's taken the puck wide twice and gone around the D and helped to setup Barnaby's goal.
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Post by MPLABBE on Mar 14, 2002 18:29:02 GMT -5
But they still lost ;D
Funny how every team Rucinsky joins starts to lose?
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The point is, neither one of them does it for full seasons on a consistant basis. We can make all the excuses we want, but Audette will not score 30 goals this year. I have serious doubts that he will score 30 next year, and I REALLY doubt he will score 30 the year after that, at the age of what? 35? 36? If I am wrong, so be it. I hope I am. But I wouldn't bet money on it.