|
|
Post by MPLABBE on Mar 11, 2002 18:08:40 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by GNick on Mar 11, 2002 19:32:52 GMT -5
It's another of those junk for junk trades. The only difference is we included three high draft choices. When are we going to acquire some quality?
It's like I told my friend the other day, Berezin has to score 15 goals a year just to make up for his play in the defensive end. Man, that guy is the worse I've ever seen defenesively. Any place we can peddle him off to before the trade deadline?
|
|
|
|
Post by MPLABBE on Mar 11, 2002 19:59:11 GMT -5
It's another of those junk for junk trades. The only difference is we included three high draft choices. When are we going to acquire some quality? It's like I told my friend the other day, Berezin has to score 15 goals a year just to make up for his play in the defensive end. Man, that guy is the worse I've ever seen defenesively. Any place we can peddle him off to before the trade deadline? we're gonna acquire quality when we have quality to deal.(or if we totally rob a GM). I agree, Berezin is BRUTAL in his own end.Tonight he caughed up the puck about 5 times already. |
|
|
|
Post by Haburgher on Mar 11, 2002 20:49:50 GMT -5
We need to be a little patient with Berezin. He is a goal scorer and not much more. When he is not scoring he is not going to see much ice time.
|
|
|
|
Post by MPLABBE on Mar 11, 2002 20:55:37 GMT -5
We need to be a little patient with Berezin. He is a goal scorer and not much more. When he is not scoring he is not going to see much ice time. True, but where is his speed? he used to be a poor man's version of Pavel Bure.Now, he's just a poor player with only one asset. |
|
|
|
Post by Johnny Verdun on Mar 11, 2002 23:08:02 GMT -5
It's another of those junk for junk trades. The only difference is we included three high draft choices. We didn't give up three draft picks for Berezin. We gave up a third for sure, the Yotes get one from the league if Savage walks, and we give another pick if we sign Berezin long-term (I don't think that includes a one-year deal by way of a qualifying offer). There are also "futures" involved but they're unlikely to amount to anything of significance. I think the best the Yotes can do is three picks, but only two of them come from Montreal. That's my understanding at any rate. |
|
|
|
Post by GNick on Mar 12, 2002 7:34:14 GMT -5
The third rounder is gone for sure. We lose the fourth rounder if Savage doesn't resign in Phoenix(Which he won't). The second rounder is from the league but it was ours if we kept Savage.
The deal was just senseless. It weaken the team defensively and cost us three good young players. Andre had better smarten up if he wants to make the playoffs. The deadline is only 7 days away and we need help getting in the playoffs
|
|
|
|
Post by Johnny Verdun on Mar 12, 2002 11:27:53 GMT -5
There's no way Savage gets Phoenix a 2nd if he goes. More like a 4th in compensation. Corson got us a third. Audette got Buffalo a third or a 4th. Savage's numbers and history are not even as good as Audette's. Maybe a third rounder, at best. You're wrong about the deal being "senseless". You may not like it. You may think you'd have done better dealing with the Savage situation, but the deal was far from "senseless". We had a player who'd already started to plan his life after Montreal, who wasn't producing, and who we'd get a third rounder for if he left, at best. We were desperately in need of scoring ability with the loss of Koivu, Audette, and with the silence of Rucinsky and Savage as they waited for their planes out of town. We now have a guy who will score more in the next two years than Savage (I'm pretty sure), who is a RFA rather than UFA and who, whether you think so or not, has some market value.
|
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Mar 12, 2002 11:53:01 GMT -5
I agree JV.. ..Kinda.. All things being equal, for the reasons you mention, the trade is OK. We were not gonna get much for Savage anyways. On the flip side, Berezin is just not the kind of player we needed/wanted. Beggars can't be chosers but Savard has a tendency to be on the "...that's all I could do..." side of things and settles rather then fetch something that makes U go "...wow, this was clearly needed, what a step forward...". We're still miles ahead of our previous GM, that was sinkin' us with every trades he was making, but Savard must change gear now stop shuffling chairs on the deck. Next level. BTW, you forgot to somehow mention in your post that Ribeiro must be demoted to the nearest garage league or traded to the Siberia Growling Bears for a bottle of cheap vodka..  |
|
|
|
Post by Johnny Verdun on Mar 12, 2002 12:46:15 GMT -5
I thought that Ribeiro thing was taken care of?
Savard's deepest, foindest wish is to be able to get this team into the playoffs. But not at any price. He wan't going to fire the coach when the team needed some consistency, and he won't send youth packing unless he's getting the goods in return. People can yimmer and whine about how the team's small and soft and old and made up of retreads and cast-offs, and it's almost all true, but he's done it with wire and duct tape and (most crucially) without moving a single prospect. He's got the franchise (despite the loss of Koivu and Audette and others) to the point where people will be disgusted if the team doesn't collect enough Ws to get the 8th spot! Think about it! In October only the most optimistic had us anywhere higher than 9th or 10th and most sensible people figured 11th would be about right. Most of the guys we gripe about are plumbers who've been brought in to stop the flood from doing any more damage. Okay, so we've seen the cracks in their bums and it's all a bit unseemly but they are not moving in, after all. The house is built for Koivu, Theodore, Zednik, Bulis, Markov, Hainsey, Komisarek, Hossa, Perezhogin, Balej, Milroy, Plekanec, Dyment and others. Let's try and keep that in mind.
From where I sit, I don't think Therrien's doing a great job, and Savard has to take some of the flack for that, but on the whole, this is a whole hell of a lot better than watching Shannon, Campbell, Deslisle, Bertrand, Lind etc, etc....
|
|
|
|
Post by MPLABBE on Mar 12, 2002 15:33:55 GMT -5
The house is built for Koivu, Theodore, Zednik, Bulis, Markov, Hainsey, Komisarek, Hossa, Perezhogin, Balej, Milroy, Plekanec, Dyment and others. Let's try and keep that in mind. <br> From where I sit, I don't think Therrien's doing a great job, and Savard has to take some of the flack for that, but on the whole, this is a whole hell of a lot better than watching Shannon, Campbell, Deslisle, Bertrand, Lind etc, etc.... Only problem is most of the players you mentionned are 2-3 years away! and by the time they become productive NHLer's...it could be 5-7 years! Can you wait that long? I don't think I can.I am fed up of boring hockey.I want action, I want hitting, I want fast pace action.I want to be able to watch our team and say 'wow, what a game'..not 'yuck, is there another game on?' |
|
|
|
Post by Johnny Verdun on Mar 12, 2002 16:12:40 GMT -5
Well, MP, they're not all 5-7 years from being productive NHLers. The important thing (to me) is that the number of spots both up front and on the blueline for journeymen and cast-offs will be going down each year. In two years there will be no space for the likes of Robidas, Bouillon or Traverse. In three years a guy like Jarventie will be number 7 IF he continues to develop (behind 6 of Brisebois, Dykhuis, Komisarek, Hainsey, Souray, Markov and Rivet). In two years there won't be space for guys like Gilmour, Berezin, Odjick, Van Allen, Ribeiro, and maybe even Perreault. In addition to improving young talent, the other thing to consider is how one FA acquisition can change a lot. If Holik were to come on board, what would we need Perreault for? If all our guys are reasonably healthy there's no space for Ribs or for Dougie or maybe not even for Perreault.
My point is that we won't have to wait that long. Things already look a LOT more hopeful than they did 14 months ago. Are these guys world-beaters? No. But they're not AHLers either, and if the team can stay respectable things will only get better. It's a lot easier to make the move into the top 4 in the conference if you've been hovering around the 8 spot for a while than to do it after years of futility and of finishing between 13th and 15th (notwithstanding the high picks). That's the drill. Keep the faith. The team is better this year than last and it'll be better next year than it is now.
|
|
|
|
Post by MPLABBE on Mar 12, 2002 16:49:11 GMT -5
Well, MP, they're not all 5-7 years from being productive NHLers. The important thing (to me) is that the number of spots both up front and on the blueline for journeymen and cast-offs will be going down each year. In two years there will be no space for the likes of Robidas, Bouillon or Traverse. In three years a guy like Jarventie will be number 7 IF he continues to develop (behind 6 of Brisebois, Dykhuis, Komisarek, Hainsey, Souray, Markov and Rivet). In two years there won't be space for guys like Gilmour, Berezin, Odjick, Van Allen, Ribeiro, and maybe even Perreault. In addition to improving young talent, the other thing to consider is how one FA acquisition can change a lot. If Holik were to come on board, what would we need Perreault for? If all our guys are reasonably healthy there's no space for Ribs or for Dougie or maybe not even for Perreault. My point is that we won't have to wait that long. Things already look a LOT more hopeful than they did 14 months ago. Are these guys world-beaters? No. But they're not AHLers either, and if the team can stay respectable things will only get better. It's a lot easier to make the move into the top 4 in the conference if you've been hovering around the 8 spot for a while than to do it after years of futility and of finishing between 13th and 15th (notwithstanding the high picks). That's the drill. Keep the faith. The team is better this year than last and it'll be better next year than it is now. Remember, what I said, productive NHLers.Not making it and be a decent player.Playing at a productive level.For a goal scorer, that would be 25 goals.For an offensive d-man that would be around 30-40 points per year. What can really save our a$$ IMO, is having a stud like Theodore in front of our net who can steal games by himself.Having a guy like him could really inspire confidence in our young players. Most of the guys you mentionned, are still teenagers!!! It will take sometime for them to be good enough to make it to the NHL and be productive. |
|
|
|
Post by GNick on Mar 12, 2002 18:45:48 GMT -5
There's no way Savage gets Phoenix a 2nd if he goes. More like a 4th in compensation. Corson got us a third. Audette got Buffalo a third or a 4th. Savage's numbers and history are not even as good as Audette's. Maybe a third rounder, at best. You're wrong about the deal being "senseless". You may not like it. You may think you'd have done better dealing with the Savage situation, but the deal was far from "senseless". We had a player who'd already started to plan his life after Montreal, who wasn't producing, and who we'd get a third rounder for if he left, at best. We were desperately in need of scoring ability with the loss of Koivu, Audette, and with the silence of Rucinsky and Savage as they waited for their planes out of town. We now have a guy who will score more in the next two years than Savage (I'm pretty sure), who is a RFA rather than UFA and who, whether you think so or not, has some market value. Even if its a third rounder....that's three good draft choices for a player that's added nothing to the team! Look what Boston got McInnis for? Or, what we gave up for Drackell? You can't throw away draft choices like that. It's stupid! It was a senseless deal! Andre's hardly improved the team! We are set to finish 9th. Do you know where we finished in 2000? The last year or Houle. BTW, We had more injuries that year than this year. So, you can throw the Audette and Koivu injuries out the window |
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Mar 12, 2002 20:04:47 GMT -5
I thought that Ribeiro thing was taken care of? Not quite, but we're getting there. There are things that I'm starting to get. Obviously it's understood that the offensive powerhouse that's being built in Montreal can't really use Ribs, but I'm getting a better idea of the type of rookie profile that can crack this lineup now: A forward in his first real NHL season here should be: 1- producing at a better clip then 16 goals 36 points over a season. 2- comfortable in all 3 forward positions and be ready to play in either spot at any point during the season without losing the beat. 3- effective along the boards, hitting with authority at a better clip then a hit per game. 4- dependable defensively. 5- Accomplish 1 through 4 while skating like the wind. Shouldn't be to tough to accomplish. |
|
|
|
Post by Cranky on Mar 12, 2002 20:40:44 GMT -5
Not quite, but we're getting there. There are things that I'm starting to get. Obviously it's understood that the offensive powerhouse that's being built in Montreal can't really use Ribs, but I'm getting a better idea of the type of rookie profile that can crack this lineup now: A forward in his first real NHL season here should be: 1- producing at a better clip then 16 goals 36 points over a season. 2- comfortable in all 3 forward positions and be ready to play in either spot at any point during the season without losing the beat. 3- effective along the boards, hitting with authority at a better clip then a hit per game. 4- dependable defensively. 5- Accomplish 1 through 4 while skating like the wind. Shouldn't be to tough to accomplish. Is that all? I mean, IS THAT ALL? Where did I put my tie on skates. You guys probably don't even know what tie on skate is. Makes me feel ancient. Doc, I think Ribs is going to prove JV wrong. He needs a little weight and a little more speed. Unless of course he gets the Hab's curse and breaks both knees. |
|
|
|
Post by Doc Holliday on Mar 12, 2002 21:02:50 GMT -5
Doc, I think Ribs is going to prove JV wrong. He needs a little weight and a little more speed. Unless of course he gets the Hab's curse and breaks both knees. Not in the stands he wont. Actually I think JV will be proved right, at least in Montreal. I doubt very much he has a future here. Savard is shaping up a lineup that leaves no room for Mike. But he will play in this league and we're gonna go "..gee why didn't he play like that when he was with us...". PS: notice how we can use the mouse to select, right click, cut and past and stuff... huge step forward 8) |
|
|
|
Post by Johnny Verdun on Mar 12, 2002 23:03:55 GMT -5
All it means to "shape a lineup that Ribeiro can't make" is to build an NHL lineup. There's no magic. If Ribeiro can make your squad it's a sign of serious trouble. He's not effective along the boards because he's physically weak in the upper body, he's not that strong on his skates, and it's not something that he feels is really part of his job description. He's not effective in the open ice (what little there is in the NHL) because he's not quick enough to get to the gaps and/or to beat anybody with his feet. He's not an NHL player and he doesn't look like he's going to become one in the future. He's got skills, for sure, but they're not enough to make up for the glaring weaknesses in his game. I'll be thrilled when he's gone.
|
|
for months, while Savage has played with Briere who has been on fire.
for months, while Savage has played with Briere who has been on fire.
