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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 21, 2002 22:01:37 GMT -5
I'm estatic that the Canadian girls took the Gold medal tonight, but it was no easy task. These girls went through a lot tonight.
There were a lot of tears on both sides tonight. If you noticed, the tears of the Canadian girls were for joy. They finally got their Olypmic Gold medals. And they got through questionable referreeing to do it.
On the other hand, you might have noticed the tears of the American girls were out of frustration. Or, were they?
What I'd like to know is where the heck a team comes off putting a Canadian flag on the floor in the center of their dressing room. There's a certain ediquette to be followed irregardless of what nation's flag is being handled. Whether it's being raised for revellie (start of day routine), or being lowered for retreat (end-day routine), or if it's being folded for a funeral or just being put away for the evening, the flag NEVER touches the ground. For any team, not just the Americans, to do that to their opponents just isn't on at all!
The Canadian announcers tried to down-play the action by saying the flag was never stepped on while it was on the floor and that it was only there to serve the American girls a reminder that Canada will be on their butts. CRAP!!!!!! Want to hear it again? CRAP!!!!! Haley Wickenheiser said right, "I wonder if they want us (the team) to come over and sign it now?!"
Make no mistake guys, I'm NOT a sore winner. I'm a Canadian who has spent the last 22 years in Her Majesty's Service. I'd like to think the American girls' tears will serve them a measure of humility. And I don't blame the individual players, but the "leaders" who allowed this to happen.
CHEERS and congratulations to the Canadians. Canadian Girls RULE!!!
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Post by Cranky on Feb 21, 2002 22:08:06 GMT -5
Ignorance and arrogance of the US hockey team………….need more be said? Kudos to the girls. They are simply amazing.  Anyone of those girls single? I hear BadCompany is trolling.  |
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Post by habmeister on Feb 22, 2002 1:41:35 GMT -5
i just heard about this tonight and was extremely pissed off! the american flag is not allowed to touch the ground anywhere. if an american flag was put on the floor of the canadian womens team floor you can bet and i'm serious on this that the womens team would have to have a police escort out of the arena and would have to have a huge amount of bodyguards with them wherever they went in salt lake.
i never liked the cocky and ignorant us womens team, but i must say this THE TEARS LOOK GOOD ON THEM!!!
hahahaha, sometimes its fun to watch people in pain.
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Post by GNick on Feb 22, 2002 7:10:07 GMT -5
The gold medal was one of the most emotional I have ever seen. I am so glad for the Canadian women. The Americans had their official in there and called all those lopsided penalties against Canada, but the women still prevailed.
I think their best players were Wickenheiser, St. Pierre(tied), then Botterill and Sunohara. I also liked #7 also, she is a very fast skater.
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Post by The New Guy on Feb 22, 2002 7:25:51 GMT -5
I actually feel bad for the American women. I mean, in general, Americans are raised to believe they are God's gift to creation and that anyone else is inferior (I want to make it a point here that this is a general thing, and not every Yankee is like this (Pam). There are plenty of Americans who don't think the world revolves aroun them, just a fairly large majority of the ones I've encountered). Their entire society is based around making Americans feel good about themselves - everything from the military (when I was serving with the Sea Cadets in HMCS Quadra I know we had to argue with the American Exchange cadets and officers that their flag was not to go up first in the morning - which they were really pissed off since, and I'm quoting from memory here "The Americans are always the first into battle and the last to leave. When we raise it in the morning we shoot it to the top of the flag pole to signify that we are always the first and always ready to respond...") to sports (if anyone was watching NBC last night you would've noticed that they pulled away from womens hockey the minute the game was over to watch some Russian kids figure skate for 25th place) to their education (Anyone ever watch "Talking with Americans"?).
The American womens team were so psyched out for this game. Eight straight wins. A strong fast team. And the only team that stood a chance of standing in the way was Canada. So they defiled our national flag, in order to prove that they were 'superior'. They had to be superior. After all, what kind of American would lose to some inferior Canadian team? What kind of American team would lose to a country that let its flag be walked on?
They forgot the lessons of the Sweede's. Never underestimate your opponent. Never. They underestimated us. I think Bob Cole but it quite blunts (about mens hockey ironically - but it applies everywhere). There are teams in the winter olympics you never count out. The Russians. The Germans. And The Canadians.
It's shocking what they did - but I'm not offended by it. It just tell me how vast superior we are to them. More mature, respectful and in the end, a better group of people. They've walked on our flag. Big deal. We walked over them (and given the number of penalties we took, I do consider it walking over them). They flew our flag upside down in the World Series too. But a flag is just a symbol, and the real pride for our country is in our heart and souls. I don't like it any more than you do Doc, but in the end, it's the fact that we hit them where it hurts. Not, we didn't bomb them, or lodge a protest, or threaten to pull out of the games. I doubt we even made a trip to the American Women's dorm to see it. But we beat the team. Much more effective.
BTW, I thought it was Revellie and Sunset? Maybe just my memory playing tricks on me but...
Later
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 22, 2002 9:36:37 GMT -5
Anyone of those girls single? I hear BadCompany is trolling. I read the title of this thread - "American girls learn humility" - and, well, I got a little...umm... excited, if you know what I mean. Needless to say a thread on woman's hockey was not what I was expecting.  Having said that, the flag incident has been denied by the American team. Personally, I have a hard time believing they would do such a thing. Perhaps they brought in a Canadian flag, waved it around in a "this is your enemy tonight" kind of thing, and from there the rumour mill went wild, but I would be very surprised if they trampled on it, or even just left it lying on the floor. Very few people would be that classless, jingoistic rhetoric aside. I am glad the Canadian girls won, despite my reservations about woman's hockey being an Olympic sport, but I don't think we need to belittle and insult the fine American Hab fans who visit this board over an incident that may not have happened. And even if it did, I doubt any of the American posters - or any American in general - would condone such an action, in much the same way that most Americans were genuinely horrified and embarrassed about the World Series flag incident. If I remember correctly, the Americans were very impressed with the measured, classy, and often humorous way Torontonians responded to that incident. I remember one sign being waived by a Blue Jay fan that had both flags upside down on it, with the words "No hard feelings, eh?" printed on it. I deliberately watched the American networks that World Series, just to see how they would react to our reaction, and like I said, they were very impressed. I know this is the Olympics, and I know national and patriotic feelings run high at such a time, but keep in mind there are a good deal of Americans who visit and contribute to this site, Americans who respect and admire Canada, its flag and its citizens. Lets not slur them because 20-some odd women may or may not have walked on our flag. Now of course, if you want to insult and slur some Maple Leaf fans, then I am all for that!  |
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Post by clear observer on Feb 22, 2002 11:49:04 GMT -5
Thanks Rick and Keith....and well said.
CO
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 22, 2002 13:55:42 GMT -5
For Keith,
I've always respected your opinions, Keith, but there was no intent on my part to slam Americans either in part or in general. If I gave you that impression then I'll proof read my posts just that much more before posting.
The fact of the matter is if this incident had involved any other country Canada, it would have been politically expoited and blown totally out of proportion. Had it been an American flag on the floor of the Canadian dressing room, there would have been a member of the Canadian delegation having to answer questions to some legal authority. Again the press would have blown it out of proportion if only to deflect some of the scandal that already hover over the games.
I have no doubt the American team denied the incident. I also have no doubt that those Americans who would endorse such trype would be a manority in their own country. But when I hear of Canadian soldiers in Afghanistan marking their Light Armoured Vehicles (LAVs) with "I love New York on it," it really burns my butt to hear allegations of this inappropriate behavior.
No, my intent was not to belittle or slam any race. Far from it, buds. I'm pretty sure those American users to the board know me enough to know that I'm not that type of person. In fact you know me rather well yourself. You know it takes a lot to get me mad, ney, PI$$ED-OFF! But if I have to guard what I say because it might offend others (at the risk of my own right to speak) I can't do that any longer. Why? Because others have no problem pointing out Canadian faults and that includes our politicians.
If this incident is a crock, no problem; the ones who started this can feel good for creating a useless, immaturely-started debate.
Cheers.
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 22, 2002 14:36:16 GMT -5
Hi Dis, I am sorry if I gave the impression that I was trying to rapproach you personally, because that was far from my intention. I just didn't want this board to degenerate into the jingoistic name calling that has marked other boards of late. Did the American women walk all over the Canadian flag? Perhaps, and if they did, shame on them. Spankings all around.  But they deny doing it, and we both know the media will take any incident, blow it out of proportion and sit back while the ratings soar. Why let the truth get in the way of a good story, and all that. They are innocent until proven guilty, and if it comes to believing a fanatical and cut-throat media looking to drum up a story, any story, or believing a bunch of hard working, dedicated athletes who often live and work in Canada, well, I know which way I am leaning. What I was worried about, was that many of the good and fine American posters would be lumped into one big mass of ignorant, flag-trampling buffoons. That is clearly not the case, and I didn't want others to jump into this thread suggesting that was so. I am as patriotic as the next guy, perhaps more so than the next guy, but as a patriot, as a Canadian that is indeed proud of our history of tolerance and our reputation for patience, I would like us to stay away from the often baseless and ignorant slurring that sometimes goes on in the name of patriotism. We are above that. |
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Post by GNick on Feb 22, 2002 20:13:36 GMT -5
Yanks are naturally cocky and arrogant. Most of the time they are subtle with it sometimes they are not so subtle. Living next to the American border all my life I have become use to it. I just brush it off. Putting our flag on their floor is just stuff they do. I can remember in a World Series game when they hung our flag upside down. I honestly don't believe they intended to be disrespectful by it. It's just how they are.
The Americans said they made sure not to step on the flag but by saying that it must have been on the floor. The act was not something most countries would do but it should not be taken too serious.
The thing that bother me more was the terrible officials. I know she was doing it so the Americans would win on home ice but that was disgraceful. She should never be allowed to referee another game.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 22, 2002 22:17:56 GMT -5
For Keith,
Much thanks for your response my friend. Your "spankings" response conjures up images of "Monty Python and the Holy Grail." You know, Sir Galahad enters the castle and after the spankings the ... oh yeah; hockey.
Rest assured, I never once felt singled out, Keith. And I'm not crusading the Maple Leaf either. But, the American coach openly adimitted that he specifically told his players not to walk across the Canadian flag that was draped across the floor of their dressing room. Either he is lying or the American girls who admitted to not knowing of the incident are. Either way they're guilty of what they as a country hold dearest; defamation of a (their) flag. Why should that be different for other nations?
Whether or not the players, Assistant Captains, Captains, or coaches, have any knowledge of proper etiquette, holds no arguement with me whatsoever. It's something that's taught in American high schools, or at least moreso than in Canadian schools. I just can't give any quarter on this one. It's something you just don't do and someone in that room knew that. How could they not?
No offense taken, Keith. Thanks for your help in the past. You were, and remain my friend today. CHEERS!
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Post by GNick on Feb 23, 2002 7:26:32 GMT -5
Dis,
What did you think of the refereeing in the women's final?
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 23, 2002 9:01:03 GMT -5
Basically, GNick, the one of the Canadian girls summed it up pretty well. "... they (the refs) tried to hand that game to them."
However, the big question I had before the game was how could an American referee end up calling a final that involved her own country? To me it was major conflict of interest. What it it resulted in was the Canadians playing a few minutes short one full period shorthanded. 8-straight penalties?
The refereeing was terrible but consistent with the way the games have been going. Cheers.
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Post by Thanatos on Feb 24, 2002 0:19:06 GMT -5
As an American let me appologize for the way my countrymen/women allegedly have acted. It was a senseless, crude, and grossly inappropriate act. I only hope that the media have distorted this incident far beyond what actually occurred.
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Post by GNick on Feb 24, 2002 6:44:34 GMT -5
I'll agree with you Dis on how an American could be allowed to ref a game the Americans were involved in. Did you watch Slava Fetisov interview the other night? The problem I have is with Bill McCreary refereeing the same problem could arise. If the Yanks are ahead I think there will be no problem. But if Canada is ahead look for the shenighans to start happening again.
The officials at the games have certainly took a lot out of the games. I am really, really surprised!!
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Feb 25, 2002 21:49:03 GMT -5
Please there's no need to apologize Thanatos. My comments weren't intended to solicit apologizes from our , brothers, sisters and/or cousins south of our boarder. Far from it actually.
I must say that at times I admire the strength and resolve with which Americans defend your colours and history. I often wish that we as Canadians would do the same on occasion. However, it's generally not our way.
Having said that please allow me to express my appreciation for the humility you have chosen to show. I'm hoping I can prove that I share the same quality and can extend to you that same curtoesy the future. Cheers.
Rick
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But they deny doing it, and we both know the media will take any incident, blow it out of proportion and sit back while the ratings soar. Why let the truth get in the way of a good story, and all that. They are innocent until proven guilty, and if it comes to believing a fanatical and cut-throat media looking to drum up a story, any story, or believing a bunch of hard working, dedicated athletes who often live and work in Canada, well, I know which way I am leaning.