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Post by blny on Jul 3, 2014 6:00:51 GMT -5
I had Prime Time Sports on yesterday at supper time and McCown spent part of his time discussing the salary cap. In particular, he spoke about having a 'floor' to the cap and it's affects.
1. It means that there are teams forced to spend to a floor they can't afford. He questioned how many teams could actually afford $51 million payrolls.
2. He thinks that by having to meet a floor, teams go out and spend too much on middle class players. He also suggested that the more guys you have making $4-5 million the less likely you are to succeed. I haven't crunched the numbers on that, but it's an interesting concept.
3. Further to his points above is the implication that a cap FLOOR has more to do with driving salaries up than a cap ceiling. It's a good point. No one is required to spend to the ceiling. Everyone is required to get to the floor. For some teams, many perhaps, it means over spending on decent players. The more decent players make, the more the superstars want. Vicious cycle.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jul 3, 2014 9:15:05 GMT -5
For an example of point 2 above, Just look at what Grabovski and Kulemin got from the Islanders.
Man is Tavares a class act, he gets a revolving door of linemates and not a peep from him. Would love him on the Habs.
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Post by blny on Jul 3, 2014 10:07:10 GMT -5
For an example of point 2 above, Just look at what Grabovski and Kulemin got from the Islanders. Man is Tavares a class act, he gets a revolving door of linemates and not a peep from him. Would love him on the Habs. They're definitely hoping that Grabo and Kuli recapture the success they had back in 2011. |
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Post by Tankdriver on Jul 3, 2014 11:58:25 GMT -5
Yeah he was also mentionning how the superstar players should be paid 13.8 Million (max 20% team cap limit clause) which would make average players get 2 to 3 million. This way you would have the rich class and poor class. Was also discussing this with Don Meehan who I think is the agent for PK....  |
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Post by blny on Jul 3, 2014 12:23:17 GMT -5
Yeah he was also mentionning how the superstar players should be paid 13.8 Million (max 20% team cap limit clause) which would make average players get 2 to 3 million. This way you would have the rich class and poor class. Was also disucissig this with Don Meehan you I think is the agent for PK.... I didn't get to listen to the segment with Meehan. I would disagree that superstars should be paid at the 20% max, unless the league brings in a 'franchise' tag like the NFL and allows teams to have one player that doesn't get counted towards the cap. |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jul 3, 2014 12:27:07 GMT -5
The difference between the cap floor and the cap ceiling is a lot less than the difference in revenues between Toronto and Phoenix.
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Post by blny on Jul 3, 2014 12:33:22 GMT -5
The difference between the cap floor and the cap ceiling is a lot less than the difference in revenues between Toronto and Phoenix. Sure, but do the Coyotes, Panthers, Lightning, Islanders actually make the $51 million required to pay the players they have at the cap floor minimum? |
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Post by franko on Jul 3, 2014 12:53:11 GMT -5
The difference between the cap floor and the cap ceiling is a lot less than the difference in revenues between Toronto and Phoenix. Sure, but do the Coyotes, Panthers, Lightning, Islanders actually make the $51 million required to pay the players they have at the cap floor minimum? only when the Canadian dollar is at par or better [because of TV revenue] |
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Post by Cranky on Jul 3, 2014 14:28:51 GMT -5
The league is made of ego rather then businessman. No company would accept a "floor" for their salary expenditures. Sure, there would be a salary range for the jobs but a floor? By definition, you are bankrupting the company with any downturn. Which of course does not apply to the NHL fairy land.
Columbus and several other should of given up the ghost years ago, but they're are staying just to be fillers for the rest.
I really don't care what they do with their money.....as long as the Habs build a contender.
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Post by Lord Bebop on Jul 3, 2014 14:42:49 GMT -5
Pretty sure all the owners in the NHL are billionaires several times over..... Sounds bizarre worrying about billionaires paying employees too much when they are writing the cheques in the first place.... They even made the salary cap rules..... Not the players fault ..... I say good for Orpik or Grabovski for for getting their money.....profit sharing is a good thing this world can use more of it lol
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Post by blny on Jul 3, 2014 15:05:55 GMT -5
Pretty sure all the owners in the NHL are billionaires several times over..... Sounds bizarre worrying about billionaires paying employees too much when they are writing the cheques in the first place.... They even made the salary cap rules..... Not the players fault ..... I say good for Orpik or Grabovski for for getting their money.....profit sharing is a good thing this world can use more of it lol Well, not to many of them are looking to pay out of pocket. They incorporate the ownership, pull profits like dividends, and use the revenues generate to pay players, employees, etc. Last thing they want is to actually use their own money after buying the team. I seriously question whether some of the sunbelt teams, and the Islanders, actually generate enough revenue to pay the players. |
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Post by habsask on Jul 3, 2014 15:12:44 GMT -5
The league is made of ego rather then businessman. No company would accept a "floor" for their salary expenditures. Sure, there would be a salary range for the jobs but a floor? By definition, you are bankrupting the company with any downturn. Which of course does not apply to the NHL fairy land. Columbus and several other should of given up the ghost years ago, but they're are staying just to be fillers for the rest. I really don't care what they do with their money.....as long as the Habs build a contender. You got it right HA. If I was an owner I'd put up with the Cap Floor in exchange for allowing players to be cut when their expected performance isn't up to snuff as in the NFL. No guarantee of contracts or set buy out percentages. Unless a club agrees to it when signing the player. |
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Post by christrpn on Jul 3, 2014 15:55:56 GMT -5
The reason there is a cap floor is so that the teams have no choice but to Ice a team thae can compete. If there was no floor, owners would put a low cap on their GM's and they would be forced to ice a AHL team. There's no point in putting a CAP that keeps going up if you don't put a floor that goes up with it. Then you would have the Habs, Leafs, pens and rangers spending to the cap and the sunbelt spending $20M a year on salaries because they "can't" afford to pay more.
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Post by seventeen on Jul 3, 2014 16:08:49 GMT -5
And then the capital value of their team would fall considerably. Who's going to pay money to buy a franchise with no fans? No one's coming out to watch an AHL line-up ofr NHL prices, no matter how you paint the pigs lips.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jul 3, 2014 16:35:32 GMT -5
Sure, but do the Coyotes, Panthers, Lightning, Islanders actually make the $51 million required to pay the players they have at the cap floor minimum? only when the Canadian dollar is at par or better [because of TV revenue] The bottom teams don't come close to breaking even. Montrealers should not have to subsidize millionaire owners in Phoenix. The whole concept of a cap and a cap floor smacks of collusion and restraint of trade. It's hard to feel sorry for any of them when you can't afford to take your kids to a game while players in Chicago and Montreal struggle to get by on $8 million a year. I tip my cap to Vanek and Gorges who let principles supersede greed. |
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Post by blny on Jul 3, 2014 18:23:16 GMT -5
The reason there is a cap floor is so that the teams have no choice but to Ice a team thae can compete. If there was no floor, owners would put a low cap on their GM's and they would be forced to ice a AHL team. There's no point in putting a CAP that keeps going up if you don't put a floor that goes up with it. Then you would have the Habs, Leafs, pens and rangers spending to the cap and the sunbelt spending $20M a year on salaries because they "can't" afford to pay more. I don't think it's that simple. We've seen clubs ice AHL squads before. The 1983-84 Pens tanked to get Lemieux. The lottery, and it's revisions to make it even harder for the worst team to get the top pick are a bigger deterrent than no cap. Regardless of that however, there are only a few traditional markets where you can tank and still sell enough tickets to generate revenues. Some places, it doesn't matter what you put out there. But, by in large people will stay away if the product is crap. I'm sure there's a model out there that shows the relationship between how much a roster costs and it's on ice success, versus the attendance figures. IMO, McCown is bang on. The owners fought for a cap, and gave the union a floor to appease them. The floor does nothing but ensure middle class make more than they're really worth. Drive those salaries up, and the elite guys go up. I would like to see some version of what the NFL has installed. Player contracts only have a portion guaranteed (both in term and money). Once those obligations are met, a player can be cut at any time. Sign a 7 year, $40 million contract, but only 4 years and $25 million is guaranteed. That is the norm. The player still makes a boat load, but there's incentive for them to maintain a level of performance. |
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Post by Disp on Jul 3, 2014 21:36:06 GMT -5
Players are guaranteed a certain % of league revenue, cap floor or not, they're going to get paid. I would imagine a cap floor ensures that it's not just the richest teams footing the bill. Not sure if they have a "weighted" revenue sharing system in place or not. I would imagine they do, it's essentially what they did by running the coyotes.
Let's say 20 players per team and a 70 mil cap, makes for a nice round average salary of 3.5. Seems crazy that an average player gets 3.5, but it kind of puts these 4 and 5 mil per contracts into perspective.
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Post by Lord Bebop on Jul 4, 2014 7:46:45 GMT -5
Pretty sure all the owners in the NHL are billionaires several times over..... Sounds bizarre worrying about billionaires paying employees too much when they are writing the cheques in the first place.... They even made the salary cap rules..... Not the players fault ..... I say good for Orpik or Grabovski for for getting their money.....profit sharing is a good thing this world can use more of it lol Well, not to many of them are looking to pay out of pocket. They incorporate the ownership, pull profits like dividends, and use the revenues generate to pay players, employees, etc. Last thing they want is to actually use their own money after buying the team. I seriously question whether some of the sunbelt teams, and the Islanders, actually generate enough revenue to pay the players. Well teams like Florida and columbas have been terrible..... Maybe they should ice a team that competes..... No one wants to come see a losing team.....some teams actually are not in trouble because the built a fan base with winning... Winning fixing so much |
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Post by blny on Jul 4, 2014 8:54:13 GMT -5
Well, not to many of them are looking to pay out of pocket. They incorporate the ownership, pull profits like dividends, and use the revenues generate to pay players, employees, etc. Last thing they want is to actually use their own money after buying the team. I seriously question whether some of the sunbelt teams, and the Islanders, actually generate enough revenue to pay the players. Well teams like Florida and columbas have been terrible..... Maybe they should ice a team that competes..... No one wants to come see a losing team.....some teams actually are not in trouble because the built a fan base with winning... Winning fixing so much Jackets are certainly turning the corner, the right way. Jarmo deserves a lot of credit. But, generally speaking, competing costs money. If your model shows that no matter how much you spend you're only going to get so many fans, what do you do? If you've figured out that spending to a certain amount guarantees a marginal profit, but that amount is below the cap floor ... |
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