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Post by HFTO on Jan 14, 2015 17:11:14 GMT -5
Looks like the kid is just fine but his father Marc doesn't seem happy with the situation the Habs have put his kid in.
According to Mark he believes if Jared was not in a hockey market where there is intense pressure to win now Jared would be playing 14 to 16 minutes in a lesser market.
Definitely can't disagree I think many believe the Habs should be coaching this kid up in the big leagues and living with the odd wart.
The interview on 690 alludes to the Tinordi camp looking for a resolution in the very near future....going to be interesting to see what happens.
HFTO
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Post by Polarice on Jan 14, 2015 17:20:29 GMT -5
Coaches play their best players, they don't have the time to teach players the fundamentals of the game, that's what the minors are for. Even Marc said that Jared had to work on his skating.
Smaller markets can get away with it because they don't have the demand for winning that the bigger markets have. If a coach makes a mistake or two by playing the kids they can get away with it. In a bigger market they loose their job.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 14, 2015 17:41:48 GMT -5
I'd say Jared needs work on his agility, not his speed. Also, he was skating today, in a non contact jersey at a Dogs practice. I agree with Mark. I don't think Therrien has handled him well, right from when Gorges gave him a suicide pass early in the 2013-14 season and he was benched after being cross checked from behind and getting score on. No way Therrien was benching Gorges, but it was on him, not Tinordi. He's not the first young player that Therrien has mis-used and he won't be the last. Just my take.
PS. Willie Desjardins, who I like because he has won championships at more than one level, had Frank Corrado, a young defenseman playing in the last 2 minutes of a tight game a couple of games ago. He'd had a good game, yes, but he has Chris Tanev, Alex Edler and Kevin Bieksa as regulars and even Sbisa and Weber who have more experience, but who did he play? That's what you call giving the guy confidence. He plays well, he plays more, that game, not incrementally over a 10 game period. He gets immediate feedback. If he plays poorly, you play him less. Same story. You don't necessarily bench him because confidence is a fickle factor. It seems kind of simple to me. As long as you don't feel veterans are 'owed' certain priveleges.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 14, 2015 18:38:54 GMT -5
I'd say Jared needs work on his agility, not his speed. Also, he was skating today, in a non contact jersey at a Dogs practice. I agree with Mark. I don't think Therrien has handled him well, right from when Gorges gave him a suicide pass early in the 2013-14 season and he was benched after being cross checked from behind and getting score on. No way Therrien was benching Gorges, but it was on him, not Tinordi. He's not the first young player that Therrien has mis-used and he won't be the last. Just my take. PS. Willie Desjardins, who I like because he has won championships at more than one level, had Frank Corrado, a young defenseman playing in the last 2 minutes of a tight game a couple of games ago. He'd had a good game, yes, but he has Chris Tanev, Alex Edler and Kevin Bieksa as regulars and even Sbisa and Weber who have more experience, but who did he play? That's what you call giving the guy confidence. He plays well, he plays more, that game, not incrementally over a 10 game period. He gets immediate feedback. If he plays poorly, you play him less. Same story. You don't necessarily bench him because confidence is a fickle factor. It seems kind of simple to me. As long as you don't feel veterans are 'owed' certain priveleges. All also mt is not in a contract year he just got a 4 year extension so play the future. I am sure if mt went to mb and explained this mb would be fine with it. I just want to see the kid given a fair shake, which i don't think he has.
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Post by folatre on Jan 14, 2015 19:44:06 GMT -5
Not a good call
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Post by flowerpower on Jan 15, 2015 5:05:27 GMT -5
Tinordi will be traded before the trade deadline and the Habs won't get much in return. The writing is on the wall. If we had been interested in Tinordi, we wouldn't have signed stiffs like Weaver and Gilbert. In a year or so we'll regret not giving him a fair chance. It's not surprising coming from a team that thought Ryan McDonagh had no future in the NHL.
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Post by Skilly on Jan 15, 2015 6:19:40 GMT -5
It's sad, really.
At this moment, Tinordi is the 4th best defenseman in the entire organization; Subban, Markov, Beaulieu, Tinordi, Emelin .... But he is deemed to need developmental time (on being physical, mind you) at the AHL level??
It seems American defensemen never pan out for the Habs ... But make no doubt, we will regret if he is traded. You won't get much for damaged goods this year, so it would be wise and prudent to hang on to him until next year.
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Post by jkr on Jan 15, 2015 8:15:54 GMT -5
Tinordi will be traded before the trade deadline and the Habs won't get much in return. The writing is on the wall. If we had been interested in Tinordi, we wouldn't have signed stiffs like Weaver and Gilbert. In a year or so we'll regret not giving him a fair chance. It's not surprising coming from a team that thought Ryan McDonagh had no future in the NHL. Not entirely fair - McDonagh was traded by Gainey/Gauthier. And Weaver was only signed for a year, Gilbert for two. I just think this is a father's reaction to seeing his son seriously injured. I would be angry too - you say stuff in the heat of the moment. The best course here is too let him recover & go from there. Bergevin doesn't have to trade him so he won't.
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Post by Tankdriver on Jan 15, 2015 12:36:27 GMT -5
I think next year will be his last chance to make the team as I see Weaver and Gonchar not coming back.
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Post by flowerpower on Jan 15, 2015 12:37:50 GMT -5
Looks like the kid is just fine but his father Marc doesn't seem happy with the situation the Habs have put his kid in. According to Mark he believes if Jared was not in a hockey market where there is intense pressure to win now Jared would be playing 14 to 16 minutes in a lesser market. Definitely can't disagree I think many believe the Habs should be coaching this kid up in the big leagues and living with the odd wart. The interview on 690 alludes to the Tinordi camp looking for a resolution in the very near future....going to be interesting to see what happens. HFTO Just listened to the whole TSN690 interview of Mark Tinordi by Tony Marinaro and you've hit the nail right on the head. I also think that the Tinordi camp is looking for a resolution in the very near future. They want Jared playing in the NHL even if it's not in Montreal. Mark Tinordi doesn't want to see his son doing staged fights against heavyweights in the AHL where he's paid only 65 Gs per year and I agree with him.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 15, 2015 13:34:35 GMT -5
The interview on 690 alludes to the Tinordi camp looking for a resolution in the very near future....going to be interesting to see what happens. HFTO It's good to be concerned but holding a gun to your GM's head may not be the best approach ... I understand where his dad is coming from, but it's one perception against another ... what he sees and Lefebvre sees might be two different things ... as an aside, I can't mention the Rangers without thinking of McDonagh ... Glenn Sather wanted to dump that contract and depending how eager he was to do it, I'm thinking Chris Higgins alone might have gotten the deal done ... if they wanted a low-end prospect with that, then fine ... but Gainey outright lied when he said that McDonagh wouldn't be more than a bottom-pair d-man ... Jacques Martin had a say in the players he wanted too ... that certainly had something to do with it ... Cheers.
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Post by blny on Jan 15, 2015 13:46:35 GMT -5
I've never been a fan of parents vocally advocating for their aspiring athlete off spring. I realize Tinordi Sr speaks from experience, but there's no need for it. Comments can be directed, privately, through the agent if absolutely necessary (which is rare).
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Post by seventeen on Jan 15, 2015 15:18:53 GMT -5
I can understand Mark's frustration too. It all depends on how you view Jared's work. Is he a potentially very good defensive defenseman who needs some proper direction, or is he a guy who has all the tools and no tool box and will never amount to much?
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Post by GNick99 on Jan 15, 2015 16:57:22 GMT -5
Looks like the kid is just fine but his father Marc doesn't seem happy with the situation the Habs have put his kid in. According to Mark he believes if Jared was not in a hockey market where there is intense pressure to win now Jared would be playing 14 to 16 minutes in a lesser market. Definitely can't disagree I think many believe the Habs should be coaching this kid up in the big leagues and living with the odd wart. The interview on 690 alludes to the Tinordi camp looking for a resolution in the very near future....going to be interesting to see what happens. HFTO Just listened to the whole TSN690 interview of Mark Tinordi by Tony Marinaro and you've hit the nail right on the head. I also think that the Tinordi camp is looking for a resolution in the very near future. They want Jared playing in the NHL even if it's not in Montreal. Mark Tinordi doesn't want to see his son doing staged fights against heavyweights in the AHL where he's paid only 65 Gs per year and I agree with him. I heard interview other day. Sounds like his future is not bright in Montreal. Not so much the interview but Bergs in camp saying Tinny has it all but needs to get use to speed of NHL game. Then sends him to Hamilton. That red-flagged it for me. How's he expect Tinny to get use to speed of NHL in Hamilton? Can't view him as part of future
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Post by folatre on Jan 16, 2015 21:08:45 GMT -5
I think the club handled this poorly. No one is saying the philosophy should to be rush kids, particularly a big d-man. But he had played plenty of AHL games before this season. Kids with NHL material eventually have to play NHL games in order to adapt.
When I watch the d-corps, Subban is really the only guy that I say sure the Canadiens are better if he plays each night. For me, everyone else could check out of the lineup (1/10 Markov and Emelin; 1/6 Gonchar and Beaulieu; 1/4 Gilbert). Right there plenty of games would have been available for Tinordi.
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Post by flowerpower on Jan 17, 2015 5:06:35 GMT -5
I think next year will be his last chance to make the team as I see Weaver and Gonchar not coming back. Weaver and Gonchar both play right defense while Tinordi plays on the left side where he'll compete with Markov, Emelin and Beaulieu. I doubt Therrien will like the idea of having two rookies on the left side. Either Beaulieu or Tinordi will make the team next year. I may be wrong but I believe Tinordi's days with the Habs are numbered.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 17, 2015 11:29:16 GMT -5
I've never been a fan of parents vocally advocating for their aspiring athlete off spring. I realize Tinordi Sr speaks from experience, but there's no need for it. Comments can be directed, privately, through the agent if absolutely necessary (which is rare). At least Bergevin isn't dealing with Bonnie Lindros ... Cheers.
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Post by HFTO on Jan 17, 2015 11:51:42 GMT -5
No doubt Dis....hey Mark Tinordi also in the interview that I forgot to mentioned said quite candidly that Jared although he does not have fight has to play aggressive and strong every night too often he said his son's game is to passive. I hope Habs don't let this kid go unless it's part of a package the Habs can't refuse....still think we don't mentor our kids properly. So often from the outside looking in they are punished immediately by lesser duties or sitting in the press box...or in Jared case back to Hamilton.
Habs have a window hope they have the right coach not to screw it up??
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Post by PTH on Jan 17, 2015 15:36:07 GMT -5
I've never been a fan of parents vocally advocating for their aspiring athlete off spring. I realize Tinordi Sr speaks from experience, but there's no need for it. Comments can be directed, privately, through the agent if absolutely necessary (which is rare). Well, I'd rather see the guy answer honestly in an interview, even if the result appears to be critical of the organisation, than to have him calling Bergevin and whining. All that being said, looking at how Beaulieu seems to have taken that next step, we can't say the kids are being handled all that badly, overall. Guys like Andriguetto and Thomas are getting chances, Sekac is a fixture, Bournival has climbed his way back into the regular lineup.
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Post by blny on Jan 17, 2015 15:37:39 GMT -5
I've never been a fan of parents vocally advocating for their aspiring athlete off spring. I realize Tinordi Sr speaks from experience, but there's no need for it. Comments can be directed, privately, through the agent if absolutely necessary (which is rare). At least Bergevin isn't dealing with Bonnie Lindros ... Cheers. The worst kind of people. Loathsome.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 17, 2015 17:06:51 GMT -5
No doubt Dis....hey Mark Tinordi also in the interview that I forgot to mentioned said quite candidly that Jared although he does not have fight has to play aggressive and strong every night too often he said his son's game is to passive. I hope Habs don't let this kid go unless it's part of a package the Habs can't refuse....still think we don't mentor our kids properly. So often from the outside looking in they are punished immediately by lesser duties or sitting in the press box...or in Jared case back to Hamilton. Habs have a window hope they have the right coach not to screw it up?? I think gonchar is helping nate out. We need a big d man who can help Jared out. Eben better bring in big bird and have him help Jared out. Big d men are different and need to be taught differently imo.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 22, 2015 12:37:38 GMT -5
I really don't want to see Jared leave the organization ... didn't we pay a price to move up and draft this guy ... I guess if it doesn't work out they might entertain moving him rather than keeping him in Hamilton (don't know either way, though) ... if it does come down to trading him why not consider Dallas (his dad's old club) ... I was looking over their prospects and Jason Dickinson looks like an up-and-comer that would fit the mold of team Bergevin is looking to build ... of course, the Stars would probably think differently than I do, but Tinordi may just need a change of scenery to put things to right for him ... anyway ... Cheers.
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Post by duster on Jan 22, 2015 13:24:34 GMT -5
I'd think long and hard before trading him. Defensemen with Tinordi's attributes are what the team needs to battle the Lucics of this world, so I'd give him every chance possible first. I agree with Tinordi Sr. that he's wasting his time in Hamilton though. As stated earlier, what he really needs is a mentor just like Beaulieu has with Gonchar. Lefebvre or Drewiske aren't it that's for sure. A Hal Gill type veteran would do wonders, imo.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jan 22, 2015 13:38:58 GMT -5
If I were Berg, I would be looking to see if Emelin has any value around the league (I know, bad contract) and then replace him with Tinordi on the 3rd pair with Gilbert. Emelin has struggled and at this point I like Tinordi's current and future upside better than that of Emelin.
The risk there is the reliance on Gonchar to anchor the 2nd pair with Beaulieu. I don't know if we can count on him for a deep playoff run, so I would be looking to add a depth dman at the deadline for insurance.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 22, 2015 16:29:21 GMT -5
Neither of us are Berg, but those thoughts are pretty well in line with mine. I still think Emelin is going through a bad stretch. Knee injuries are really difficult to bounce back from. I haven't had surgery, but one of my knees is wonky and I can't do 60% of the stuff I'd normally do in a soccer game, maybe more. If I had surgery, I'd probably be thinking much like I am now, that I can't do some things, out of fear. Having said that, if he's not going to get any better, its time we put Jared to the test full time for 14-16 minutes a game. With the right partner, he'd be fine.
I have question marks about Gonchar too, unless MT starts to give him some games off. Heck putting Weaver into his place wouldn't hurt that much. We lose some offense, but lose nothing on defense. A few games rest would work wonders for a 40year old, and for Markov as well. Hopefully, toward the end of the season, if a playoff spot is in the bag, MT can rotate a few of our oldies.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 22, 2015 17:31:21 GMT -5
I really don't want to see Jared leave the organization ... didn't we pay a price to move up and draft this guy ... I guess if it doesn't work out they might entertain moving him rather than keeping him in Hamilton (don't know either way, though) ... if it does come down to trading him why not consider Dallas (his dad's old club) ... I was looking over their prospects and Jason Dickinson looks like an up-and-comer that would fit the mold of team Bergevin is looking to build ... of course, the Stars would probably think differently than I do, but Tinordi may just need a change of scenery to put things to right for him ... anyway ... Cheers. More like a change of coaches. I could see him flourishing out west with a coach like lindy.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 22, 2015 17:35:24 GMT -5
If I were Berg, I would be looking to see if Emelin has any value around the league (I know, bad contract) and then replace him with Tinordi on the 3rd pair with Gilbert. Emelin has struggled and at this point I like Tinordi's current and future upside better than that of Emelin. The risk there is the reliance on Gonchar to anchor the 2nd pair with Beaulieu. I don't know if we can count on him for a deep playoff run, so I would be looking to add a depth dman at the deadline for insurance. I believe emelin has an ntc so moving him could be difficult... i can't access capgeek but i recall posting he had either an ntc or modified ntc.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 22, 2015 17:37:19 GMT -5
I'd say we need a second pairing solid dman AND a Top 6 winger to truly be considered a legit contender. But if MB can get only one…I hope he goes with the dman, as it would immediately make Price's life better….and lessen the load on the aging Gonchar and Markov. Markov - Subban Gonchar - Mr. Aquisition Beaulieu - Emelin/Gilbert Two questions. 1. Which dmen of that calibre are apt to be available before or at the deadline? 2. With 37 games to go, should we rule out Tinordi for this season? I would think Gonchar's job is to mentor Beaulieu, so I would think Beau would stay on the second pairing. As for another D man, I want Tinordi brought up and given up until the trade deadline to see what he can do on the 3rd pairing. If he can't do the job or needs another season in the A, then MB can go looking for a D man. I am sure to get a top 6 forward or a top 4 dman would cost assets that I don't think MB is willing to part with. Vanek was a salary dump last year, I don't think that scenario will happen this year. I posted the following in the preds pgt thread
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Post by jkr on Jan 22, 2015 18:08:01 GMT -5
If I were Berg, I would be looking to see if Emelin has any value around the league (I know, bad contract) and then replace him with Tinordi on the 3rd pair with Gilbert. Emelin has struggled and at this point I like Tinordi's current and future upside better than that of Emelin. The risk there is the reliance on Gonchar to anchor the 2nd pair with Beaulieu. I don't know if we can count on him for a deep playoff run, so I would be looking to add a depth dman at the deadline for insurance. I believe emelin has an ntc so moving him could be difficult... i can't access capgeek but i recall posting he had either an ntc or modified ntc. Capgeek is off line indefiitely. The founder is facing serious health issues. You can try www.nhlnumbers.com. I've only gone as far as the 1st page there so I don't know if it's as in depth as Capgeek was.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 22, 2015 18:46:43 GMT -5
I believe emelin has an ntc so moving him could be difficult... i can't access capgeek but i recall posting he had either an ntc or modified ntc. Capgeek is off line indefiitely. The founder is facing serious health issues. You can try www.nhlnumbers.com. I've only gone as far as the 1st page there so I don't know if it's as in depth as Capgeek was. Wow that's too bad it is an excellent site. I looked into it but i couldn't find and ntc no movement info on nhlnumbers. Edit: i did a search and on his new contract which started July 1 he has an ntc for the 1st 2 years.
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