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Post by Skilly on Feb 20, 2015 7:55:48 GMT -5
Seems odd to see the Flyers honour Desjardins to their Hall of Fame....when he won a Cup with us....scoring all 3 goals in the McSorley "illegal stick" Game 2. Then again, he spent 11 years with them...and among them were the Legion of Doom years. I always questioned that trade. Leclair and Desjardin and Dionne for Recchi and a 3rd. Recchi went through some lean times in Montreal...while the Flyers seemed to enjoy more success. It would appear that Bobby Clarke got the best of Savard on that one. Could that deal have spelled the end of Savard's tenure? He was gone at the end of that season. And then it just got SO much better....... I liked the trade back then, and if I had to do it again, I would. John LeClair wasn't going to turn into that big power forward with Montreal. In his 5 season with Montreal he had 49 goals. He only thrived in Philly because they had a brute of an offensive dynamo named Lindros. One of the best players of his generation. Montreal did not have that dynamic. And yet Recchi still managed 322 points (120 goals) in 346 games in his 5 years in Montreal. The hard part in that trade was losing Desjardins. He had alot of good years left in him.
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Post by Skilly on Feb 20, 2015 8:05:23 GMT -5
When he mixes it up, it's what the heck is he doing? When he doesn't, he's stubborn. I'm of the opinion that a defenseman should never take a shootout ... and last night we had two. The defense are not used to deeking, and 9 times out of 10 they are only going to shoot. Galchenyuk should always take it, but he was sick last night, .... Desharnais should also always selected. My third choice would be Plekanec. Thos are the three guys who will make a move. Pacioretty will always shoot, and sometimes it will go in (like last night) but I'd have him going 4th or 5th. With Galchenyuk out last night, I'd have used Sekac or Eller before Subban and Markov.
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 20, 2015 9:03:55 GMT -5
With Galchenyuk out last night, I'd have used Sekac or Eller before Subban and Markov. Yep. If you want to "spark" some secondary scoring, use your secondary scorers in the shoot-out. Eller/Sekac score a SO winner (or even just a goal) and it could very well instil some confidence. Instead, they continually get the message, "Sit down…"
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Post by Disp on Feb 20, 2015 11:27:02 GMT -5
When he mixes it up, it's what the heck is he doing? When he doesn't, he's stubborn. I'm of the opinion that a defenseman should never take a shootout ... and last night we had two. The defense are not used to deeking, and 9 times out of 10 they are only going to shoot. Galchenyuk should always take it, but he was sick last night, .... Desharnais should also always selected. My third choice would be Plekanec. Thos are the three guys who will make a move. Pacioretty will always shoot, and sometimes it will go in (like last night) but I'd have him going 4th or 5th. With Galchenyuk out last night, I'd have used Sekac or Eller before Subban and Markov. Not used to deking? Guys mess around all the time. Maybe, during shootout practice, these guys score on Price more than the other guys.
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Post by Tankdriver on Feb 20, 2015 11:46:24 GMT -5
When he mixes it up, it's what the heck is he doing? When he doesn't, he's stubborn. I'm of the opinion that a defenseman should never take a shootout ... and last night we had two. The defense are not used to deeking, and 9 times out of 10 they are only going to shoot. Galchenyuk should always take it, but he was sick last night, .... Desharnais should also always selected. My third choice would be Plekanec. Thos are the three guys who will make a move. Pacioretty will always shoot, and sometimes it will go in (like last night) but I'd have him going 4th or 5th. With Galchenyuk out last night, I'd have used Sekac or Eller before Subban and Markov. Sorry, I can't find the career stats, but I think Plekanec is horrendous in shoot outs If someone can find them...... The broadcast mentioned that he isn't very successful but I don't want to throw out some numbers that I am not sure of. I would of given Sekac a chance and maybe Christian Thomas.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 20, 2015 11:59:07 GMT -5
When he mixes it up, it's what the heck is he doing? When he doesn't, he's stubborn. I'm of the opinion that a defenseman should never take a shootout ... and last night we had two. The defense are not used to deeking, and 9 times out of 10 they are only going to shoot. Galchenyuk should always take it, but he was sick last night, .... Desharnais should also always selected. My third choice would be Plekanec. Thos are the three guys who will make a move. Pacioretty will always shoot, and sometimes it will go in (like last night) but I'd have him going 4th or 5th. With Galchenyuk out last night, I'd have used Sekac or Eller before Subban and Markov. I don't mind Markov taking one because he used to be a centre before he converted and he's a very smart guy. PK I would avoid unless it's late in the process. I'm not crazy about Pleks simply because his record sucks, but I agree on Sekac or Eller. Gotta be better than Pleks or PK in that situation. Sometimes you use a guy who hasn't done it before, just to throw a goalie who studies tendencies a lot. No tendency, no advantage. It hurt us not having Galchy available, but we should have won the game long before that. The refs opened the door for Florida with that beastly call on Tinordi. If anything, we should have had the PP, not Florida. Only against us does that ever happen.
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Post by Skilly on Feb 20, 2015 12:30:49 GMT -5
I'm of the opinion that a defenseman should never take a shootout ... and last night we had two. The defense are not used to deeking, and 9 times out of 10 they are only going to shoot. Galchenyuk should always take it, but he was sick last night, .... Desharnais should also always selected. My third choice would be Plekanec. Thos are the three guys who will make a move. Pacioretty will always shoot, and sometimes it will go in (like last night) but I'd have him going 4th or 5th. With Galchenyuk out last night, I'd have used Sekac or Eller before Subban and Markov. Sorry, I can't find the career stats, but I think Plekanec is horrendous in shoot outs If someone can find them...... The broadcast mentioned that he isn't very successful but I don't want to throw out some numbers that I am not sure of. I would of given Sekac a chance and maybe Christian Thomas. I'd use, based on past practice, and the statisical odds of success: 1) Parenteau - 48% success rate (14 for 29) 2) Desharnais - 47% success rate (14 for 30) 3) Galchenyuk - 31% success rate (5 for 16) 4) Sekac - if it goes that far. 5) Markov - 38% success rate (5 for 13) 6) Eller - 42% success rate (5 for 12) To compare ... Pacioretty - 19% success rate (3 for 16) PLekanec - 14% success rate (4 for 29) Why do we use those two??? This was a few weeeks back. I should update cause Plekanec and Pacioretty have been in some and scored since I believe. But without Galchenyuk, I'd use Plekanec. And I'd use Markov (contradicting what I said earlier, I know) only after using Eller, Sekaec, Plekanec ... so around 6th or 7th.
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 20, 2015 12:54:33 GMT -5
I'm of the opinion that a defenseman should never take a shootout ... and last night we had two. The defense are not used to deeking, and 9 times out of 10 they are only going to shoot. Galchenyuk should always take it, but he was sick last night, .... Desharnais should also always selected. My third choice would be Plekanec. Thos are the three guys who will make a move. Pacioretty will always shoot, and sometimes it will go in (like last night) but I'd have him going 4th or 5th. With Galchenyuk out last night, I'd have used Sekac or Eller before Subban and Markov. Sorry, I can't find the career stats, but I think Plekanec is horrendous in shoot outs If someone can find them...... The broadcast mentioned that he isn't very successful but I don't want to throw out some numbers that I am not sure of. I would of given Sekac a chance and maybe Christian Thomas. I posted earlier that I wanted Thomas and sekac on the shootout I guessed mt wanted to reward some I'd the guys because pk and markov should not have been in on the shootout. Thomas sekac should have been used imo
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 20, 2015 12:56:10 GMT -5
Sorry, I can't find the career stats, but I think Plekanec is horrendous in shoot outs If someone can find them...... The broadcast mentioned that he isn't very successful but I don't want to throw out some numbers that I am not sure of. I would of given Sekac a chance and maybe Christian Thomas. I'd use, based on past practice, and the statisical odds of success: 1) Parenteau - 48% success rate (14 for 29) 2) Desharnais - 47% success rate (14 for 30) 3) Galchenyuk - 31% success rate (5 for 16) 4) Sekac - if it goes that far. 5) Markov - 38% success rate (5 for 13) 6) Eller - 42% success rate (5 for 12) To compare ... Pacioretty - 19% success rate (3 for 16) PLekanec - 14% success rate (4 for 29) Why do we use those two??? This was a few weeeks back. I should update cause Plekanec and Pacioretty have been in some and scored since I believe. But without Galchenyuk, I'd use Plekanec. And I'd use Markov (contradicting what I said earlier, I know) only after using Eller, Sekaec, Plekanec ... so around 6th or 7th. They said in the broadcast that DD was 2 for 7 this year... now 2 for 8
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Post by BadCompany on Feb 20, 2015 12:59:29 GMT -5
I think it's pretty much a crap-shoot. I just looked it up; Jussi Jokinen is 2 for 12 on shoot-outs this year. A few years back he was 10 for 13.
<shrug>
At that level they ALL have some offensive ability when there is nobody chasing them and they can do whatever they want. Remember Malek Malik? Some guys seem to be historically much worse at it, like Plekanec, and some guys are probably just better/luckier at it than other. But I don't think there is any difference between forward or defenseman, shooter or deker.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 20, 2015 13:42:16 GMT -5
I think it's pretty much a crap-shoot. I just looked it up; Jussi Jokinen is 2 for 12 on shoot-outs this year. A few years back he was 10 for 13. <shrug> At that level they ALL have some offensive ability when there is nobody chasing them and they can do whatever they want. Remember Malek Malik? Some guys seem to be historically much worse at it, like Plekanec, and some guys are probably just better/luckier at it than other. But I don't think there is any difference between forward or defenseman, shooter or deker. Hmmm....not sure about that. I have no stats to back it up, but the logical side of my brain tells me that if a guy is a threat to deke, he's more likely to be successful with his shot. If the goalie has fewer concerns, they can anticipate better. Pacioretty coming in on me, I'm playing the shot every time. Even if he does deke, chances are he'll fumble it and I can recover in time. Galchenyuk, OTOH, has me watching and reacting more than planning. Therrien has always done goofy things at times. I swear it's just #BecauseTherrien. No logic behind it. Because he can. It's all about power. That's the main reason I don't trust him to lead us to the Cup. I'm never sure if he'll do the right thing, or whatever comes to his mind to reinforce that he's the boss. Eller's a basket case right now and I put that at Therrien's feet. Lars just can't be comfortable around him. I don't think I could either, because I think too logically and MT would (is) drive me nuts. CH dug up some stats for me a week or so ago, when Therrien was the Penguins coach. After he was fired, the team increased its goals for by .50 per game and (surprising to me) decreased it's goals against by over .5 per game. Now some of that is undoubted just "a new coach" effect and players getting a different perspective, but I'm always leery of leaders who lead through some method other than respect. I don't believe you can compare different eras either. Some disciplinarian coaches in the past (Bowman) could work that way because the players didn't have a lot of choice. With free agency today, that team would have a constant revolving door. I haven't seen or read anything that shows me Therrien has turned into a communicator/teacher type. I think that's the type of style that works best today. Now last night's game wasn't a bad one for the team. Luongo played well and our lack of finishing reared its ugly head again. The shootout? We've won our share of those, so losing one into the 7or 8th round is pretty much a crap shoo. I keep looking for something in the bigger picture to see if MT has changed his style, but nothing yet. I'd sure like to know why Tinordi's ice time was reduced in the 3rd yesterday. Anyone hear anything about that?
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 20, 2015 15:18:24 GMT -5
I think it's pretty much a crap-shoot. I just looked it up; Jussi Jokinen is 2 for 12 on shoot-outs this year. A few years back he was 10 for 13. <shrug> At that level they ALL have some offensive ability when there is nobody chasing them and they can do whatever they want. Remember Malek Malik? Some guys seem to be historically much worse at it, like Plekanec, and some guys are probably just better/luckier at it than other. But I don't think there is any difference between forward or defenseman, shooter or deker. Hmmm....not sure about that. I have no stats to back it up, but the logical side of my brain tells me that if a guy is a threat to deke, he's more likely to be successful with his shot. If the goalie has fewer concerns, they can anticipate better. Pacioretty coming in on me, I'm playing the shot every time. Even if he does deke, chances are he'll fumble it and I can recover in time. Galchenyuk, OTOH, has me watching and reacting more than planning. Therrien has always done goofy things at times. I swear it's just #BecauseTherrien. No logic behind it. Because he can. It's all about power. That's the main reason I don't trust him to lead us to the Cup. I'm never sure if he'll do the right thing, or whatever comes to his mind to reinforce that he's the boss. Eller's a basket case right now and I put that at Therrien's feet. Lars just can't be comfortable around him. I don't think I could either, because I think too logically and MT would (is) drive me nuts. CH dug up some stats for me a week or so ago, when Therrien was the Penguins coach. After he was fired, the team increased its goals for by .50 per game and (surprising to me) decreased it's goals against by over .5 per game. Now some of that is undoubted just "a new coach" effect and players getting a different perspective, but I'm always leery of leaders who lead through some method other than respect. I don't believe you can compare different eras either. Some disciplinarian coaches in the past (Bowman) could work that way because the players didn't have a lot of choice. With free agency today, that team would have a constant revolving door. I haven't seen or read anything that shows me Therrien has turned into a communicator/teacher type. I think that's the type of style that works best today. Now last night's game wasn't a bad one for the team. Luongo played well and our lack of finishing reared its ugly head again. The shootout? We've won our share of those, so losing one into the 7or 8th round is pretty much a crap shoo. I keep looking for something in the bigger picture to see if MT has changed his style, but nothing yet. I'd sure like to know why Tinordi's ice time was reduced in the 3rd yesterday. Anyone hear anything about that? Probably because he got a penalty. MT is not a teacher, all you had to do was see how he yelled at PK on 24CH last season. He yelled at him to 'play the right way'... what the hell does that mean? It really irks me how many do overs Therrien gives Gilbert and Emelin, yet Tinordi gets nothing. Did Tinordi's dad beat the snot out of MT at some point in their younger days? Does MT think Tinordi is Terry Ryan's twin?
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Post by seventeen on Feb 20, 2015 16:05:43 GMT -5
Hmmm....not sure about that. I have no stats to back it up, but the logical side of my brain tells me that if a guy is a threat to deke, he's more likely to be successful with his shot. If the goalie has fewer concerns, they can anticipate better. Pacioretty coming in on me, I'm playing the shot every time. Even if he does deke, chances are he'll fumble it and I can recover in time. Galchenyuk, OTOH, has me watching and reacting more than planning. Therrien has always done goofy things at times. I swear it's just #BecauseTherrien. No logic behind it. Because he can. It's all about power. That's the main reason I don't trust him to lead us to the Cup. I'm never sure if he'll do the right thing, or whatever comes to his mind to reinforce that he's the boss. Eller's a basket case right now and I put that at Therrien's feet. Lars just can't be comfortable around him. I don't think I could either, because I think too logically and MT would (is) drive me nuts. CH dug up some stats for me a week or so ago, when Therrien was the Penguins coach. After he was fired, the team increased its goals for by .50 per game and (surprising to me) decreased it's goals against by over .5 per game. Now some of that is undoubted just "a new coach" effect and players getting a different perspective, but I'm always leery of leaders who lead through some method other than respect. I don't believe you can compare different eras either. Some disciplinarian coaches in the past (Bowman) could work that way because the players didn't have a lot of choice. With free agency today, that team would have a constant revolving door. I haven't seen or read anything that shows me Therrien has turned into a communicator/teacher type. I think that's the type of style that works best today. Now last night's game wasn't a bad one for the team. Luongo played well and our lack of finishing reared its ugly head again. The shootout? We've won our share of those, so losing one into the 7or 8th round is pretty much a crap shoo. I keep looking for something in the bigger picture to see if MT has changed his style, but nothing yet. I'd sure like to know why Tinordi's ice time was reduced in the 3rd yesterday. Anyone hear anything about that? Probably because he got a penalty. MT is not a teacher, all you had to do was see how he yelled at PK on 24CH last season. He yelled at him to 'play the right way'... what the hell does that mean? It really irks me how many do overs Therrien gives Gilbert and Emelin, yet Tinordi gets nothing. Did Tinordi's dad beat the snot out of MT at some point in their younger days? Does MT think Tinordi is Terry Ryan's twin? e Can't see that penalty being the reason. To start with it was bogus. SEcondly one could look at a lot of other reasons for the loss besides that penalty. I suspect either he hurt his hand in that fight, or it really was a showcase situation and he thought the first two periods were enough to sell it. If that's the case, it still shows he has no confidence in Jared. But....there could just be some simple reason for it. Does anyone know how much time he did play in the 3rd? He had almost 11 minutes or around that up till the end of the second and finished at 11:39, so he was basically benched.
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 20, 2015 17:16:30 GMT -5
There were a couple of times in the 2nd period where Jared bobbled the puck but not enough to warrant a benching imo
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Post by CentreHice on Feb 20, 2015 17:26:08 GMT -5
Tinordi went deep into the Panthers' zone, down the left side, on a rush in the second period...and turned the puck over. He had to race to get back.
No scoring chance resulted, but I remember thinking at the time that Therrien might make him pay for that excursion (or reduce his time IF he was being showcased).
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Post by Willie Dog on Feb 20, 2015 17:44:01 GMT -5
Tinordi went deep into the Panthers' zone, down the left side, on a rush in the second period...and turned the puck over. He had to race to get back. No scoring chance resulted, but I remember thinking at the time that Therrien might make him pay for that excursion (or reduce his time IF he was being showcased). Well then Gilbert should get benched because he does that at least once a game. That's what bugs me about MT. Anyways the forwards covered up like they are expected to.
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Post by Disp on Feb 20, 2015 21:38:10 GMT -5
I think it's pretty much a crap-shoot. I just looked it up; Jussi Jokinen is 2 for 12 on shoot-outs this year. A few years back he was 10 for 13. <shrug> Therrien has always done goofy things at times. I swear it's just #BecauseTherrien. No logic behind it. Because he can. It's all about power. That's the main reason I don't trust him to lead us to the Cup. I'm never sure if he'll do the right thing, or whatever comes to his mind to reinforce that he's the boss. Eller's a basket case right now and I put that at Therrien's feet. Lars just can't be comfortable around him. I don't think I could either, because I think too logically and MT would (is) drive me nuts. CH dug up some stats for me a week or so ago, when Therrien was the Penguins coach. After he was fired, the team increased its goals for by .50 per game and (surprising to me) decreased it's goals against by over .5 per game. Now some of that is undoubted just "a new coach" effect and players getting a different perspective, but I'm always leery of leaders who lead through some method other than respect. I don't believe you can compare different eras either. Some disciplinarian coaches in the past (Bowman) could work that way because the players didn't have a lot of choice. With free agency today, that team would have a constant revolving door. I haven't seen or read anything that shows me Therrien has turned into a communicator/teacher type. I think that's the type of style that works best today. It isn't logical to deal with illogical people in a logical way if you're not going to have success doing it. You'll just end up beating your head against the wall and fired. You have to play them a bit. Be manipulative. To state it in a basic way, I think MT sides with the leading clique and the vets so he doesn't lose the room. You can be as logical as you want, make what are most likely the correct calls, but if you lose the room and your team implodes, it probably wasn't the right way to deal with it.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 20, 2015 21:53:27 GMT -5
I know there are personalities and characters to deal with. It's all part of the handling of the team. We've seen him handle people in unorthodox ways. Usually its better just to be honest with people. They understand that, they're not fooled and they appreciate how they are handled when its honest. That's the question. Does he deal with his players in that manner or does he play mind games? I've yet to be convinced he handles them in a straightforward manner.
Obviously he deals with younger players differently than vets because he has to. It's not always right though, and you have to know when enough is enough or you lose respect. He's never had mine, but perhaps I don't know enough of what's going on.
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Post by Disp on Feb 20, 2015 22:25:14 GMT -5
I don't think most people want true honesty. They want honesty as they see it.
MT doesn't need your respect or mine, he needs to get most of the guys on the team pulling in the same direction. For the most part, I think he's doing that.
I don't like that he picked on PK, or that he seems to use Eller as a garbage man/whipping boy, or that kids get less leeway than the vets, but I bet, at least when he's dealing with the kids, that most of the vets are fine with it. Pay your dues, we all went through it, kind of thing.
It may not be the ideal way that things should be, but it may be the best way to deal with things as they are.
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Post by seventeen on Feb 21, 2015 0:42:42 GMT -5
WE'll have go see as things go on. I firmly believe any success he's had is firmly planted between the goal posts. Put in a better than average goalie rather than a star goalie and we're fighting for a playoff spot and suddenly Therrien has no clothes.
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Post by GNick99 on Feb 21, 2015 4:23:40 GMT -5
Florida is not a team I want to meet in first round of playoffs. They have a coach who knows our weaknesses inside/out, a goalie who can win a series singlehandly, Tallon, and they are a team with no pressure on them, have nothing to lose. We could be ripe for the picking if we meet up. Much rather face Boston or Detroit.
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