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Post by blny on Jun 7, 2019 21:17:16 GMT -5
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Post by folatre on Jun 7, 2019 22:43:40 GMT -5
There is always a premium paid for guys who can put the puck in the net. And Skinner is certainly a high end goal scorer.
Market values go up year after year so it is neither here nor there to say how in the world is Skinner making this much more than so and so. However, one example seems curious to me from just one year ago. Evander Kane has rather similar career offensive numbers (649 GP, 216 G, 194 A) as Skinner's (661 GP, 244 G, 198 A), not even taking into account Kane's physicality and mean streak.
Kane got 7 x 7 and Skinner gets 8 x 9. Ultimately I think what explains this is how a model organization like San Jose sells winning to a guy who could have gotten more if he had waited until July 1 while rudderless organizations like Buffalo can only sell a guy by paying somewhat more than market value in order to keep him from hitting the open market.
I am not saying this is madness on Botterill's part. Overpaying a bit to keep a guy who delivered on your first line is not crazy at all. Buffalo has like nothing in the way of goal scoring wingers in their system and it would have been hard for the loyal fans to swallow losing one of their only quality players. But the price they had to pay says something about cumulative futility and mismanagement of the Buffalo Sabres hockey club.
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Post by UberCranky on Jun 8, 2019 3:11:13 GMT -5
I'm not sure Skinner is worth that kind of money. I can see him declining back into a 25 to 30 goal scorer next season.
ALWAYS suspicious about career years just before a major contract.
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Post by blny on Jun 8, 2019 10:32:37 GMT -5
There's only a couple of guys in the league who've scored more 5on5 the last 3 or so years. If Buffalo overpaid, it's only by about $1 million a year. I don't think Jeff would have had any trouble getting 7x9 on the open market.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 8, 2019 15:03:56 GMT -5
It's always about not having any options. If Buffalo had some good scoring wingers in their system, Skinner would have been traded at the deadline. It's an overpayment for sure and almost every UFA signing is. But what choice did Botterill have?
These things keep re-inforcing to me how critical it is to have a great (not good) scouring and development group. With that in place, you always have an option at hand, a cheaper option, and the UFA has no leverage with you. Most of the time you will trade that guy at some point, pick up some extra draft choices, fill with the upcoming prospects, skip nary a beat and rinse, repeat. Tamps seems to have that part in place, but they haven't worked out the trading of a valuable piece (Stamkos for example) before he starts to slide. Point is ready to replace him, and Cirelli is looking really good and ready to step into a bigger role. Johnson and Gourde are other centres. (Aren't I absolutely cold hearted? I'm ready to turf Weber, Stamkos, etc. anyone with some current value who might tail off in the next couple of years).
Yes, it's clinically rational, unemotional thinking, but it does make sense, if one has the gonads to do it.
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Post by BadCompany on Jun 9, 2019 9:42:56 GMT -5
It's always about not having any options. If Buffalo had some good scoring wingers in their system, Skinner would have been traded at the deadline. It's an overpayment for sure and almost every UFA signing is. But what choice did Botterill have? These things keep re-inforcing to me how critical it is to have a great (not good) scouring and development group. With that in place, you always have an option at hand, a cheaper option, and the UFA has no leverage with you. Most of the time you will trade that guy at some point, pick up some extra draft choices, fill with the upcoming prospects, skip nary a beat and rinse, repeat. Tamps seems to have that part in place, but they haven't worked out the trading of a valuable piece (Stamkos for example) before he starts to slide. Point is ready to replace him, and Cirelli is looking really good and ready to step into a bigger role. Johnson and Gourde are other centres. (Aren't I absolutely cold hearted? I'm ready to turf Weber, Stamkos, etc. anyone with some current value who might tail off in the next couple of years). Yes, it's clinically rational, unemotional thinking, but it does make sense, if one has the gonads to do it. If anything this just reinforces my belief that Gallagher is the guy to trade. How do Skinner and Gallagher compare? Are we prepared to give Gallagher $9 million?
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Post by seventeen on Jun 9, 2019 13:43:06 GMT -5
I agree. The more you've made me think about it, the more I've come around to that being a good move. Gallagher and Weber to Philly for Nolan Patrick and Gostisbhere? I think ownership has put a mandate on Fletcher, and it's to make the playoffs this season. Gally and Weber will certainly do that. We might have to take McDonald's contract to even out the salary disparity, but he's only got one year left and might be ok on the third pairing.
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Post by folatre on Jun 9, 2019 17:18:46 GMT -5
Yeah, Skinner and Gallagher are comparable because Gallagher has stepped up big the last two seasons. However, Skinner's career goal scoring pedigree is superior (.369 goals per game versus .309 for Gallagher). Everyone knows Gallagher is gritty and scores a lot of goals in close. I think it is underappreciated that Skinner actually scores a lot of goals in close too, taking advantage of rebounds with his quick hands.
Also, Gallagher will be hitting free agency at age 29 rather than 27 like Skinner. I may be wrong, but I think that the best term Gallagher could hope for would be 6 years. Time will say but if I had to guess 6/$42 million seems likely if he stays healthy and productive over the next couple of seasons.
Seventeen, I agree about Philadelphia's ownership being impatient for post-season success. And that likely makes Fletcher prepared to be aggressive. Just for fun, I think Fletcher would likely jump all over the trade that you threw out there. Of course, we know there is no way in the world Bergevin would do that now and it is extremely unlikely he would go for it next summer even if the Habs miss the playoffs again. What do you think Patrick's ceiling is? I am not starting to think that if he is a top six forward at all it is probably as a right wing but who knows, Couturier's emergence was certainly not instantaneous.
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