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Post by rocky on Jan 28, 2003 9:42:44 GMT -5
Finally, hockey has taken a leaf from baseball's page. Huge salaried veterans are being offered around the league with so far, no takers. These Nolan, Palffy and Selanne rumors are apparently true. According to Bobby Clarke, who said on sportsnet on Monday night that western teams are calling the eastern clubs hoping to unload some salary. With uncle George wanting a winner, I suspect that AS may get a little green light especially with the recent salary reduction for the team. Very interesting indeed.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 28, 2003 9:44:07 GMT -5
Owen Nolan would sure look good on Saku's right wing ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) Oh to dream....................
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Post by TheHabsfan on Jan 28, 2003 9:51:34 GMT -5
Owen Nolan would sure look good on Saku's right wing ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png) Oh to dream.................... That would be awsome ... but think of what you would have to give up to land someone like him. You get stronger by plugging that hole but punch other holes .. It would have to be a win/win and I can't see that happening. ![8-)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/cool.png)
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 28, 2003 9:56:09 GMT -5
I know.......... ![:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/sad.png)
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Post by Boston_Habs on Jan 28, 2003 10:15:17 GMT -5
Oh God, I would love Owen Nolan in a Habs uniform. An absolutely great fit, but he has been a bit inconsistent throughout his career. Even if the Sharks are looking to unload him, and I'm not sure I believe that, we would pretty much have to empty the cupboard to get him. He's the only one I would be interested in - forget Palffy or Selanne.
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Post by UberCranky on Jan 28, 2003 10:20:43 GMT -5
Ed Jovanowski just signed a 3 years 15 million (500k signing bonus w/ salaries of 4.5, 4.75 and 5.25). Maclaren got his 4 year deal this weekend at 8.8 million.
Two thoughts.
I know that Breezy and Rivet where hitting FA but did Savard panic and overpay by 30%-40%?
Are salaries starting to level off or actually slide back a bit?
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 28, 2003 10:28:57 GMT -5
Ed Jovanowski just signed a 3 years 15 million (500k signing bonus w/ salaries of 4.5, 4.75 and 5.25). Maclaren got his 4 year deal this weekend at 8.8 million. Two thoughts. I know that Breezy and Rivet where hitting FA but did Savard panic and overpay by 30%-40%? Tough to tell...if Both Jovo and McLaren were about to become UFA's just like Briser and Rivet...they would IMO command at least 5-6-7-8 million per year on the open market. Especially Jovo. Is Jovo twice the d-man Brisebois is? I doubt it....he is much better than Brisebois, but twice as good? nah...
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Post by TheHabsfan on Jan 28, 2003 10:31:44 GMT -5
Ed Jovanowski just signed a 3 years 15 million (500k signing bonus w/ salaries of 4.5, 4.75 and 5.25). Maclaren got his 4 year deal this weekend at 8.8 million. Two thoughts. I know that Breezy and Rivet where hitting FA but did Savard panic and overpay by 30%-40%? Are salaries starting to level off or actually slide back a bit? Hindsight is 20/20 but I would definitely agree with you that AS jumped the gun. Rivet is still quite young and if he gets his wrists fixed up, he can become a very solid D for us. I think that we can forgive AS on this one. Where I do have a MAJOR problem is with the Breezy signing. I have been calling for his head for the past 5 or 6 years. I have never liked him and his play this year has gone nowhere in changing that. He is grossly overpaid and is nowhere near Jovo's value. This move is, IMO by far, AS's dumbest move. Breezy knows that he is overrated by the MTL management and he took advantage of that. Can you blame him? No. Can you blame Habs management? Hell yeah! Freakzilla....Holla, if ya hear me! Allways wanted to type that! ![:D](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/grin.png)
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 28, 2003 10:35:34 GMT -5
Dallas or some other team would have thrown 4+ million at Breezy so the point is moot.. and who would have replaced him on the right side? Robidas? ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) a raw Komi?
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 28, 2003 10:42:20 GMT -5
Finally, hockey has taken a leaf from baseball's page. Huge salaried veterans are being offered around the league with so far, no takers. These Nolan, Palffy and Selanne rumors are apparently true. According to Bobby Clarke, who said on sportsnet last night that western teams are calling the eastern clubs hoping to unload some salary. With uncle George wanting a winner, I suspect that AS may get a little green light especially with the recent salary reduction for the team. Very interesting indeed. I would be very surprised that Savard would get a green light on adding more salary when he's got 4mil of payroll in the AHL and some more roster cut due when Perreault comes back... We have huge salaries of our own that we're dreaming of unloading. We need to cut not add IMO
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 28, 2003 11:06:00 GMT -5
Hmmm...lessee
Odjick .75 Therrien .6 Audette 3
That's 4.35 million right there. Plus who knows how much for buying out guys like Poulin, Darby, et al.
I have to agree that Uncle George may well be inclined to say: "André, you've finally got your guy behind the bench, let's see what he does with what you've put together."
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 28, 2003 12:53:32 GMT -5
Hmmm...lessee Odjick .75 Therrien .6 Audette 3 That's 4.35 million right there. Plus who knows how much for buying out guys like Poulin, Darby, et al. I have to agree that Uncle George may well be inclined to say: "André, you've finally got your guy behind the bench, let's see what he does with what you've put together." I agree with Mr. B. I think GG will tell AS to let JC work with what we have and see where we go with them. Let the other teams make offers to our UFA's, then we can guage what our UFA's are worth on the open market. I think Audi still gets the 3 mill down in Hamilton, does he not???
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Post by TheHabsfan on Jan 28, 2003 14:11:41 GMT -5
Dallas or some other team would have thrown 4+ million at Breezy so the point is moot.. and who would have replaced him on the right side? Robidas? ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) a raw Komi? Obviously Habs management aren't the only ones who overrate Breezy...I am a little disappointed in you Marc. ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) I doubt even Dallas would pay 4+ M for a 2 M - 3 M max, D. (Rangers might though ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) ) These days, he isn't worth 1 M. Even Hainsey, a rookie, doesn't screw up as much. Who would replace him? With 4+ M in the bank, you can get a few D-men who are more dependable than Breezy. We'd be sacrificing offense you may say? What offense...? He isn't doing anything for us this year. And Markov is more than enough to take over. Again, I don't like Breezy. ![>:(](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/angry.png)
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Post by spozzy on Jan 28, 2003 14:29:10 GMT -5
Obviously Habs management aren't the only ones who overrate Breezy...I am a little disappointed in you Marc. ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) I doubt even Dallas would pay 4+ M for a 2 M - 3 M max, D. (Rangers might though ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) ) These days, he isn't worth 1 M. Even Hainsey, a rookie, doesn't screw up as much. Who would replace him? With 4+ M in the bank, you can get a few D-men who are more dependable than Breezy. We'd be sacrificing offense you may say? What offense...? He isn't doing anything for us this year. And Markov is more than enough to take over. "What offense?" What are you talking about? Breezy has assists in each of the last three games and was actually leading us in points in the first month. He was playing good D in the beginning too. I don't know what the heck happened the past few months, but I agree that he has sucked royally (in D) since then. However, I really like the pairing of Markov and Brisebois...especially on the powerplay. Both players can really pass and shoot...who else (that we have) would you prefer back there?
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Post by TheHabsfan on Jan 28, 2003 15:04:53 GMT -5
"What offense?" What are you talking about? Breezy has assists in each of the last three games and was actually leading us in points in the first month. He was playing good D in the beginning too. I don't know what the heck happened the past few months, but I agree that he has sucked royally (in D) since then. However, I really like the pairing of Markov and Brisebois...especially on the powerplay. Both players can really pass and shoot...who else (that we have) would you prefer back there? Markov is already the "general" or the quarteback on D. I think that we could get more bang for our buck. I would rather have 2 defensemen @ 2 M a piece, who are +5's and average offensively than a guy who is "supposed" to be an excellent offensive threat at -10. But that's just me. I just don't think we are getting our money's worth. If we weren't spending the 4 M on him, I am sure that we could get a couple of D who would do fine. We may give up a bit on offense but we would gain on defense.
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Post by CalgaryHab on Jan 28, 2003 15:54:57 GMT -5
There is one more aspect you have to take into consideration with the contracts. 2 years ago Montreal was seen as a place that dumped contracts and no FA wanted to come here. So we haved to overpay to show that we are not a " Mickey Mouse Club " . Now we can start to get interest from FA's as a place to come to and not run from.
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Post by PTH on Jan 28, 2003 16:36:57 GMT -5
Obviously Habs management aren't the only ones who overrate Breezy...I am a little disappointed in you Marc. ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) I doubt even Dallas would pay 4+ M for a 2 M - 3 M max, D. (Rangers might though ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) ) These days, he isn't worth 1 M. Even Hainsey, a rookie, doesn't screw up as much. Hainsey isn't playing in nearly as many tough game situations. And Breeze's value can't just be looked at from a salary point of view. Of course he's not worth 4 times Hainsey's salary, but Hainsey has no leverage to get a deal, while Brisebois could go to the highest bidder. Who. Name some, just for fun. I think the only offensive available the summer that Breeze would have been a UFA was Jason Wooley. 30 teams, you can bet there would have been a bidding war for PB, since a few would be looking for offense off the D. We know that now, but at the time it wasn't nearly so obvious. Letting vets go when kids aren't actually ready to replace them can get to be very, very risky - either the kid stalls and you're screwed, or the kid crumbles under the pressure. If the PP starts to get booed repeately, for example, we can still limit Markov's exposure somewhat. If PB were gone, we couldn't. Really ? I'd never have guessed.
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Post by PTH on Jan 28, 2003 16:38:27 GMT -5
There is one more aspect you have to take into consideration with the contracts. 2 years ago Montreal was seen as a place that dumped contracts and no FA wanted to come here. So we haved to overpay to show that we are not a " Mickey Mouse Club " . Now we can start to get interest from FA's as a place to come to and not run from. For the Juneau/Perreault era contracts that works, but how can you explain getting an overpaid Audette, getting Chow just to put him on waivers weeks later ? Some AS contract decisions just don't make sense...
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 28, 2003 16:51:57 GMT -5
Obviously Habs management aren't the only ones who overrate Breezy...I am a little disappointed in you Marc. ![:o](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/shocked.png) I doubt even Dallas would pay 4+ M for a 2 M - 3 M max, D. (Rangers might though ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) ) They gave Boucher who had ONE good year 2-3 million per year...I am convinced Brisebois would have fetched 4 million per from Dallas or some other team 22 points in 51 games...not exactly terrible....
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 28, 2003 17:22:17 GMT -5
They gave Boucher who had ONE good year 2-3 million per year...I am convinced Brisebois would have fetched 4 million per from Dallas or some other team 22 points in 51 games...not exactly terrible.... Markov 27pts, +10, .7million. Rivet 15pts, +3, 1.5million. Quintal 7pts, -2, 2.1million. Markov + Rivet + Quintal = 49pts, +11, 4.3million. Brisebois = 22pts, -11, 4million. A realtively poor return on investment, I'd say.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 28, 2003 17:23:13 GMT -5
Back to Owen Nolan...
Zilla posted this at non Habs hockey board...but this is amazing:
''MORE NOLAN: A league source attending Monday night's game here said the Sharks offered right wing Owen Nolan to as many as three teams recently.
"They didn't even want anything back," said the source, alluding to San Jose's possible motive of severing what would be three more years at an average of $6.5 million in salary owed to Nolan''
If this is true..............
AS...GET ON THE PHONE WITH LOMBARDI!!!!!
If we can get Owen without giving up a Koivu, a Zed, a Markov, a Theo, a Komi, a Hainsey, a Hossa, a Perezhogin, a Higgins,etc and all we need to do is pick up his salary....for chr*st sakes do it!!
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 28, 2003 17:23:50 GMT -5
Markov 27pts, +10, .7million. Rivet 15pts, +3, 1.5million. Quintal 7pts, -2, 2.1million. Markov + Rivet + Quintal = 49pts, +11, 4.3million. Brisebois = 22pts, -11, 4million. A realtively poor return on investment, I'd say. what is his plus/minus stat when not playing with Traverse?
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 28, 2003 17:41:03 GMT -5
what is his plus/minus stat when not playing with Traverse? Traverse is -6. Brisebois is -11. Brisebois gets paid 5x what Traverse does. Brisebois' negative kung-fu is stronger than Traverse's.
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Post by CalgaryHab on Jan 28, 2003 17:46:55 GMT -5
" but how can you explain getting an overpaid Audette, getting Chow just to put him on waivers weeks later ? Some AS contract decisions just don't make sense... "
As For signing Audette to 3 yrs I would never have done that as he is too one dimensional but on the other hand Koivu's status was far from certain and seemed like a good pick up at the time then the injury happened. He did have a good play-off but now seems like he can not get untracked for what ever reason and won't pay the price. I for one didn't mind the Czer pick up but we all have to agree that Therien mis handled that one. When Czer recovers his usual 25 - 35 goal level we will all forget about the waiver thing. He is a " prima donna " that needed to be told he meant something which the old coach could not understand. CJ seems to be a better comunicator so we are seeing a more involved Czer. Czer for Asham is still a good trade because we don't know what value we will get back for him when he leaves but it still should be higher then what ever we would have gotten for Asham. At least in the last few games the effort is there and hopefully the results will come soon.
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Post by legaspesien on Jan 28, 2003 17:58:27 GMT -5
Some AS contract decisions just don't make sense... " But at the time he did them they where welcome
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 28, 2003 18:01:39 GMT -5
if Dallas was crazy enough to give Audette 3 million per year, why wouldn't they have given Brisebois 4 million? ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png) Just gotta back up my argument guys...... ;D
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Post by PTH on Jan 28, 2003 18:37:14 GMT -5
" but how can you explain getting an overpaid Audette, getting Chow just to put him on waivers weeks later ? Some AS contract decisions just don't make sense... " As For signing Audette to 3 yrs I would never have done that as he is too one dimensional but on the other hand Koivu's status was far from certain and seemed like a good pick up at the time then the injury happened. He had a few hot games and got hurt, career-wise he's not all that special a player, and at his age you know what you're getting. That move doesn't mean AS's head should roll, but I think he should be seeing axes being sharpened in the distance. Trust me, I won't forget the waiver thing. AS got a guy his coach wasn't going to be able to give decent ice time to, and had to dump him to the minors - ie, he could easily have lost him for nothing. Maybe MT just expected players to show up to camp in shape.... Why wonder what Asham could have gotten back ? Right now just keeping Asham and the pick would be a better deal. Sometimes the best deals are the ones you don't do.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 28, 2003 18:41:17 GMT -5
Maybe MT just expected players to show up to camp in shape.... where was it reported Chow came in camp out of shape? ![???](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/huh.png)
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Post by CalgaryHab on Jan 28, 2003 18:50:55 GMT -5
I think that we should be able to pick up a decent pick or player from a Nash or some one who could use a offensive weapon. Also when they picked up Czer, Koivu was still an unkown in how much he could play this year. It is great to see him back fully. Imagine where we would be if it had come back ? Our biggest problem we had in the last year or so was no set system to work on and no accountability for players play. It is a coaches responssibility to maximize a players skills. Not playing Hainsye on the PP is not a good sign when that is his skill set. how are you susupose to get confident if your not put in a position to exel? That has been my pet peeve with the habs for about a decade. Leclair was in this boat. he would have a bad game and get punished yet he showed the promise of doing so m uch more yet we gave up on him . Which brings us back to Czer. MT thought he was a PK spec ?? misuse of tool in my opinion.
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Post by JFM on Jan 28, 2003 19:01:03 GMT -5
You can't compare the Brizzer's and Jovo's contracts simply because Brizzer was due to become an UNRESTRICTED F.A. While Jovo still doesn't qualify for a few years yet. Taking that into consideration, P.B. isn't grossly overpaid. Bottom line is that it costs G.M.s to convince potential U.F.A.s to give up trying their luck on the free market. IMHO P.B. would have signed a similar contract elsewhere. The debateable point is naturally his lack of performance for the contract he signed.
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