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Post by JacquesInFL on Jan 21, 2003 0:46:18 GMT -5
Return happily from Sunrise, FL. Miami was Miami with the additional headache of the wife shopping with her sister and mother (dear, dear in-laws…) but at least I found good view with a few cold Presidentes.
The usual NHL lunacy was in full effect –- we arrive at an empty arena around 16:00. This is not sacred ground for hockey. It is not an exciting barn pulsing with passion for hockey from busy nearby streets. In fact, this is nothing more than an arena superimposed on a parking lot and the latter certainly sets tone for what you find. By 16:30 loud music is greeting few people. Canadiens skate hard in warm-up. This looks right for club with new coach, I suppose. Panthers look bigger and more relaxed, joking and making more stylish passes/shots.
Habs have focus in Period 1. Compared to Therrien & Green’s “trough system,” there is greater variety of breakout options – quicker first pass, some puck carrying by d-men and what looks to be plays desinged for wingers like Petrov and Bulis to rush puck. Yes, Perreault’s line is by far the best for Habs. Two power plays are appalling, and I really think Audette and Petrov are poor choices for what typically ails Montréal PP. -- I see Carbo during intermission and I think about games from the Forum.
Period 2. Oleg’s good jump finds reward early. What is future for Petrov in Montréal? Despite good effort from most Habs, ice tilts in favour of Panthers. Keenan has enviable size down the middle and I think again Savard must address lack of size at centre. Quintal hits someone (this is still rare for Habs-corps). Bulis hits post. Audette…poor Donald is so unhinged he twice gives up possession when no Panther is close (he simply flicks puck forward from red line like no instinct to carry puck or face physical consequences of doing so).
Period 3. Habs appear tense. But guys on bench are at least talking, in particular Saku who seems very frustrated. Then we go down 2-1 in strange developing play annoying scenario unfolds: guys who rarely mark goals get caught up-ice and Panthers counter, and camp in prime areas without paying price. Julien makes smart adjustments: Audette glued to bench, Gilmour tries more vision and puck patience with Saku’s line. Panthers take sloppy penalty on Markov and then PP god finally smiles on Habs. It looked like Gilmour touched Andrei’s laser. Luongo is truly quality goalie and these ideas Panthers will trade him to Bruins are completely crazy. 30 seconds later talented, never quit, bad-shooting- percentage Jan Bulis keeps pressure until goal crosses line. A few tense moments later, Julien earns first win against big, hard-skating young team.
Well, Tuesday morning the wife and I go to Tampa for I hope the conclusion of 4 point Florida trip for Habs.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Jan 21, 2003 1:22:03 GMT -5
Nice report.
It's disappointing to hear that the place was half empty (or half full, I suppose). I'd be interested to hear what the prognosis is for two teams in Florida over the next, say, four or five years. Do you see both surviving?
As for the game, I really liked a lot of things I saw in the first period. I think the approach Julien's taking is different and it's making a difference. I don't think this is just the typical lift a team gets when a (to some degree) unpopular coach is axed. This is not just the result of a better effort. It's also the result of a better-directed effort.
Totally agree on Luongo. Trading him would be madness. I'd trade Theodore for Luongo and a second rounder. That's how good I think Luongo is and is going to be.
Petrov's future is uncertain. He's got an option for next year for something like 1.25 million. He will not exercise it and choose free agency instead, unless we sign him to an extension. There were some rumors that after the Rivet signing (very early in the season) Petrov was going to be approached about a deal. Then there was some talk about (Petrov, I believe) not wanting to talk about it during the season. Petrov has said he loves montreal and wants to live here post hockey. This is what I surmise: Savard talked to Petrov's agent. They got a feel for where they were at. If they talked turkey it would be something like this: Petrov wants three years at 2.25 million average. Something like that. Savard wants two years plus a mutual option at 1.5 million a year. They'd be something like 700,000 apart. If they don't work something out soon, Petrov will be moved. If he continues to play with the energy he's capable of, someone will want him at the deadline and will be prepared to give a 4th or even a 3rd rounder to get him. He's versatile, dependable, etc, etc. I like Petrov. He's the kind of depth that can help a team. He's the kind of smaller player I don't mind having. Assuming that Audette's days are numbered, I wouldn't mind keeping Petrov around. I bet Julien likes his energy and skating also. We know that Savard likes Petrov. Will Andre overpay again? To me, anything more than 1.75 a year would be overpaying.
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Post by PTH on Jan 21, 2003 1:57:21 GMT -5
It's disappointing to hear that the place was half empty (or half full, I suppose). I'd be interested to hear what the prognosis is for two teams in Florida over the next, say, four or five years. Do you see both surviving? Half empty, when it should be filled to be max by various snowbirds, even if the locals don't care about the Habs, plenty of tourists do. Luongo still hasn't shown he can respond to pressure.... but yeah, I think he has to be rated as being in the same class as Theo. (I love being able to say that. A year ago on an internet board I would have been slagged to death. A Vézina and a Hart gives credibility ;-) Generally agree, but I wouldn't want to see too many smurfs stick around. If Petrov is our only winger clearly below 6 feet that's perfectly OK (Saku, Gilmour, Perreault and Ribs are centers, it's Audi and Dackell who are the other smallish wingers - the rest are 6 feet and over). I've always thought Petrov was both underrated and overrated - underrated in that tons of Habs fans want to replace him year after year, and overrated in that he wouldn't actually bring much in return (3d-4th rounder is a good range, many expect more).
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 21, 2003 5:48:49 GMT -5
It's disappointing to hear that the place was half empty (or half full, I suppose).... Hmmm...this from ESPN's game report: The crowd of 19,250 marked the Panthers' fourth sellout this season. ... Julien earned his first NHL victory in his second game since replacing fired coach Michel Therrien. - sports.espn.go.com/nhl/recap?gameId=230120026Curious.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 21, 2003 8:56:28 GMT -5
Luongo still hasn't shown he can respond to pressure.... but yeah, I think he has to be rated as being in the same class as Theo. (I love being able to say that. A year ago on an internet board I would have been slagged to death. A Vézina and a Hart gives credibility ;-) well Luongo is 3-4 years younger than Theodore. I also believe eventually he will get his own Hart and Vezina trophy. Thanks for the report Jacques.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Jan 21, 2003 11:07:43 GMT -5
Hmmm...this from ESPN's game report: The crowd of 19,250 marked the Panthers' fourth sellout this season. ... Julien earned his first NHL victory in his second game since replacing fired coach Michel Therrien. - sports.espn.go.com/nhl/recap?gameId=230120026Curious. I listened to the third period of the game on CJAD. Wilson mentioned that the place wasn't even half full. Jacques? What's the truth?
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Post by TheHabsfan on Jan 21, 2003 11:31:39 GMT -5
Hmmm...this from ESPN's game report: The crowd of 19,250 marked the Panthers' fourth sellout this season. ... Julien earned his first NHL victory in his second game since replacing fired coach Michel Therrien. - sports.espn.go.com/nhl/recap?gameId=230120026Curious. 8697 of them were actually "Office Depot Center" staff. ;D
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Post by JacquesInFL on Jan 21, 2003 11:39:26 GMT -5
Rows and rows of empty seats add up to sellout?? People arrive late so it looked better than half in my view, but thousands of empty seats...
Honestly, I do not know NHL policy for reporting real attendance as opposed to reporting sold tickets. I know plenty of corporate tickets are regularly unused. The economics of NHL is puzzling in so many ways -- Bettman tirelessly claiming growth is real for to drive up franchise values but then he agrees (or at least implies) many clubs are losing money. What is the truth? As for Lightning and Panthers, again it is hard to know bottom line but most people around here would not notice if one or both disappears.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Jan 21, 2003 11:46:12 GMT -5
Honestly, I do not know NHL policy for reporting real attendance as opposed to reporting sold tickets. The NHL counts people who briefly thought about going to the game but then didn't. If you mention that there's a hockey game going on you get included in the attendance figure ("he was attentive to the fact that a hockey game was being played"). Seriously, the NHL is interested only in paid attendance, not people through the turnstiles, which is what really counts. Because people who don't show up don't buy beer and chips at outrageous prices, and kick in for parking, and buy souvenirs....
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 21, 2003 12:01:26 GMT -5
Thanks guys. I was curious about the discrepancy as well, having listened to the broadcast on CJAD and having heard the same comments JV referred to. Chalk it up to yet another lesson in Bettmanomics I guess.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 21, 2003 16:34:17 GMT -5
No way that was a selllout.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Jan 21, 2003 16:41:03 GMT -5
Regarding the ice time Julien's assigning to various forwards, check this out:
Koivu 21 min Zed 19 Perreault 19 Petrov 17 Bulis 16 Hossa 15 Gilmour 13 Czerk 12 Juneau 12 Dackell 11 Audette 11 McKay 10
With Perreault being the one exception, the bulk of the time is going to players who can go up-tempo. The slower guys are at all at the bottom of the chart. It's also weighted towards younger guys, who obviously (and not coincidentally) tend to be faster. You have to like the look of this. On the one hand, the guys on the fourth line will see more ice as we go to a faster tempo, harder forecheck, and shorter shifts, but on the other hand, I think we can expect to see the speed in our lineup being used to greater effect.
Remember, for all the clamoring about the need for more size up front,.....speed = power. In all things.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 21, 2003 16:45:15 GMT -5
Good point JV I wonder what role CJ would give Kilger? and how good is it seeing Juneau and Dackell at the bottom...they are good PKers...but when it comes to shutting down the other top lines in the league, their lack of speed AND lack of size hurt them. The real good 3rd line centers are guys like Mike Ricci and Mike Peca. Guys who can go head to head with a Sundin or a Thornton because they have that physical/gritty aspect JJ and Dackell never had and never will have
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Post by TheHabsfan on Jan 21, 2003 17:15:54 GMT -5
Good point JV I wonder what role CJ would give Kilger? and how good is it seeing Juneau and Dackell at the bottom...they are good PKers...but when it comes to shutting down the other top lines in the league, their lack of speed AND lack of size hurt them. The real good 3rd line centers are guys like Mike Ricci and Mike Peca. Guys who can go head to head with a Sundin or a Thornton because they have that physical/gritty asped JJ and Dackell never had and never will have If CJ is serious about rolling 4 lines on a regular basis, I would have him either center the 4th line or on the wing. He is a commodity that is rare in the Habs lineup and if CJ can finally get all that he can from him, I say play him regularly. I wonder what it would take to bring Worrell in from FLA??? cheers,
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 21, 2003 17:38:16 GMT -5
Koivu Perreault Zednik Hossa Petrov Gilmour Bulis Juneau Dackell Czerkawski Audette McKay
| Shifts 25 24 23 22 19 19 18 17 17 16 14 13
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| Time per shift 49.7 47.0 50.3 39.5 53.1 43.3 52.6 42.7 39.2 46.9 45.9 46.6
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Jan 21, 2003 19:10:39 GMT -5
That's where it should be at, imo. Shorter shifts allow for better changes, less chaos, etc, etc,. Frankly, I don't know how those numbers compare with the shift lengths in MT's last few games, but my impression is that the temp is faster and the shifts are shorter. Where do you find those averages? Or did you do the math yourself (gasp)....?
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 21, 2003 19:26:13 GMT -5
That's where it should be at, imo. Shorter shifts allow for better changes, less chaos, etc, etc,. Frankly, I don't know how those numbers compare with the shift lengths in MT's last few games, but my impression is that the temp is faster and the shifts are shorter. Where do you find those averages? Or did you do the math yourself (gasp)....? I crunched the numbers. Always been a bit of a stats maven. I realize that numbers have their limitations when used to analyze activity, but they can provide some interesting insights. You've got my curiosity up about Therrein's use of the players. I'll try to post a table before hitting the hay. The one player whose usage seems somewhat peculiar is Hossa. Ranked fourth in shifts, but 11th in time per shift (out of 12 forwards). Hmmm...
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Post by Habsolution on Jan 21, 2003 22:26:38 GMT -5
Hossa goes on the ice a lot ... but for short shifts. It's ok he is young that's what should happen with him. He's good because of the sheer intensity of his presence. A tired rookie on the ice is not a good thing.
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