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Post by PTH on Jan 19, 2003 16:27:30 GMT -5
Hackett+ribs+dackell for: Tough mid twenties stay at home defenseman You mean Left side defenseman, right ? So he can take Traverse and Dykhuis's slot. Big, tough, the kind of guy every team wants. McLaren, only healthier and more mobile. This is the kind of a trade idea I really, really hate (sorry) - essentially just taking spare parts and players you dislike/don't see fitting in (which usually boils to the same thing) and try and get the teams biggest need. That never works... Dackell has no value anyhow, Ribs is at that ackward stage where kids are worth very little, since they either step up, or disappear, and Hackett's value is fairly low - no team badly needs a goalie at this point, and playoff-bound teams looking for an upgrade would not want Hack anyhow, given his lack of playoff experience.
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Post by habwest on Jan 19, 2003 16:44:51 GMT -5
Marc, I stand corrected on Plekanec. I was going by the Hamilton web site where he's listed as a LW in their stats. So much for their web site. Regardless, we're still not yet strong at center. Pelkanec might (probaly is?) still be another year away if his stats are any indication- 8G, 11A in 35 games. So the fill option for Ribs might still apply depending on circumstances.
From a longer term perspective there's little doubt in my mind that Plekanec will turn out to be a solid NHL player but I'd still like to see a big center with the team. The "big center" role is now being filled by a 6' 195 pounder who is 35. I still can't invisage this team being successful until it has a big center and probably one with some scoring touch. The guys we have on the horizon just are not talented enough to compensate for the lack of size, ie we don't have any Yzermans, Federovs (well, he's a little bigger at 6'2", 205 but that isn't big when you're looking at Thortons etc), Sakics or Forsbergs.
What position is Larrivee playing these days? He's seems to be about the only guy with some real size who at least used to play the position.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 19, 2003 16:49:26 GMT -5
Larrivée? I think he is playing center with Chicoutimi(Psycorp...do you know?)
I wouldn't read too much in Plekanec's numbers offensively this season(his stats are : 44 games, 12 goals,14 assists, 26 points...http://www.theahl.com/StatsHKA/BC-HKA-STAT-HAMILTONSTAX-R.html)...he has been 3rd line center(behind Gratton and Stoll) for a good chunk of the season in Hamilton.
I think if he was the number 1 center on the team, he would have a few more points by now...
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Post by TheHabsfan on Jan 19, 2003 19:24:44 GMT -5
You mean Left side defenseman, right ? So he can take Traverse and Dykhuis's slot. Big, tough, the kind of guy every team wants. McLaren, only healthier and more mobile. This is the kind of a trade idea I really, really hate (sorry) - essentially just taking spare parts and players you dislike/don't see fitting in (which usually boils to the same thing) and try and get the teams biggest need. That never works... I agree. If we don't want our crap, why would other teams want it? The best you can get for one of these guys is a late pick. As for our 4th line, we need to get a quality brawler. Again last night, McKay was man-handled by Belak. Blouin is not what I consider a heavyweight. There is nobody on the team right now who will go out and straighten a guy out...like Fedoruk for his hit on Markov. Sure, it was a clean hit, but still, he is our best D, and we should be sending a message to the other team when they start to take liberties. Right now, the opposing teams are laughing at us. NOBODY is afraid of the Habs. A fourth line combo of Gratton - Ribs - Ward isn't gonna scare anyone. So, we got 2 holes to fill...A solid left D and a heavyweight. IMO
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 19, 2003 19:33:39 GMT -5
Yeah but we already have no room up front
You need to send Blouin somewhere to get that heavyweight..
The Blouin pick up is turning out to be quite a flop..
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Post by TheHabsfan on Jan 19, 2003 19:37:28 GMT -5
Blouin was a bad pickup. I am not saying that finding the right guy and finding a spot for him would be easy. All I am saying is that IMO, this is what we need on the fourth line to be effective. A soft 4th line, is a waste IMO. It needs to be tough and energetic to settle some scores, scare the opposing teams and swing the momentum.
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Post by Patty Roy on Jan 19, 2003 19:54:56 GMT -5
What position is Larrivee playing these days? He's seems to be about the only guy with some real size who at least used to play the position. I wouldn't hold my breath on Larrivee. I wasn't at all impressed with what i saw from him in Hull. Sure he's a big guy, but he plays the game like a forward version of Patrice Brisebois, only with less skill.
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Post by Patty Roy on Jan 19, 2003 20:01:29 GMT -5
Kilger-Gratton-Ward Could that work? I think it could. They could form a pretty good "energy" line, with Ward and Kilger playing the body and Gratton getting his nose dirty and getting under the opponents skin. The trouble here is trying to find room for Ward and Gratton at the NHL level. If these were the go to guys in Hamilton for Julien, i've got to imagine that he would love to have them at his disposal at the NHL level...but what do you do with Audette, McKay and at least one of Petrov, Chow or Gilmour? I could see teams possibly having interest in trading for either McKay (due to his playoff experience) or Petrov (still has great wheels), but i just don't see us being able to get rid of either Audette or Czerkawski.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 19, 2003 20:07:52 GMT -5
Well, my thinking was more for next year
when Gilmour retires(likely)
Petrov probably goes via UFA
Maybe McKay retires
and maybe Chow or Audette can be traded
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Post by seventeen on Jan 19, 2003 20:32:20 GMT -5
My 2 bits on Gratton, from seeing him a year ago against Calgary. He seemed half a step behind the play mentally. I like other things about him, grit, faceoffs, but that weakness might keep him out.
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Post by UberCranky on Jan 19, 2003 21:44:10 GMT -5
My 2 bits on Gratton, from seeing him a year ago against Calgary. He seemed half a step behind the play mentally. I like other things about him, grit, faceoffs, but that weakness might keep him out. That's not true anymore. 1/2 of the goals Ward has are from Grattons hard work and passing. His only problem is size.
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Post by MC Habber on Jan 19, 2003 21:59:59 GMT -5
Ribeiro has produced at every level (including the NHL) when he was given a chance to play. He is a scorer. He isn't big (not that small though and still young). He isn't fast. He isn't a great checker. I've had the good fortune to watch Robitaille in LA. He is a scorer. He isn't big. He isn't fast either. He isn't a great checker. If Ribs has half the career Lucky Luc did I want him on my team. He has the intangibles, vision, offensive savy that you can't teach to Kilger. Ribs may not make it, but let's give him the opportunity to try. I totally agree with this. It's too early to tell how good Ribeiro will be but I think we should give him at least the rest of this season to see what he can do. His value isn't going to go down but he might be worth more in the summer than he is right now; then AS can either keep him or get something for him depending on how he fits into his plans. Before this season started, I was hoping that they would give him a chance like they said they would and I don't see any reason to feel differently now. The fact that Audette and Czerkawski were total busts only means that Ribeiro deserves his chance even more than he did after training camp.
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Post by Psycorp on Jan 19, 2003 23:58:33 GMT -5
Sigh...
In the "Q", Ribeiro raked point in his sleep, he didn't have to make any efforts, the guy simply oozed offensive talent.
Problem is, it didn't translate to the AHL level, even in the Junior tournament, he struggled a lot.
He did eventually start to work....sometime, one game out of two or five games in a row then 4 games invisible but he did produce at the AHL level.
Then last year he got a kid, he seemed to have gained some maturity, it was the first time i thinked maybe he COULD be a NHL player some day.
But where is he this year, where is the improvement, i know he don't play much but we should at least see some glimpses, i'm still waiting...
he's slow, small and not much defensively so he absolutly got to be dangerous on offense where are the Petrov-like stickhandling, the Perreault-like finishing, the Koivu-like playmaking
The fact is, he's got nothing but offence so he's absolutely got to be at theses guys level of offensive play....
waiting....waiting....for the sun to come.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 20, 2003 6:07:16 GMT -5
That's not true anymore. 1/2 of the goals Ward has are from Grattons hard work and passing. His only problem is size. Well, to mangle a phrase, I'd rather have a small guy who plays big rather than a big guy who plays small (as for instance, Kilger too often does), or a small guy who plays invsible (Audette). I also don't mind having a guy who gives a *consistent* effort on every shift. What good are skills if you don't use them regularly, no matter your size? Put "Elvis" in the lineup right now and I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that he'd outperform and outproduce the likes of Audette, Kilger, Petrov, Ribeiro, Blouin, McKay and Dackell. Of course, I, like all Habs fans, hope that Julien's presence wakes up the guys I just mentioned from their season-long slumbers. I could argue that McKay's problem is size; it keeps him from moving. And if you think Gratton wouldn't make as good a punching bag for Wade Belak, think again. The difference would be that "Elvis" would provoke Belak into making his club shorthanded first.
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Post by legaspesien on Jan 20, 2003 8:50:07 GMT -5
Since there was lots of talk about Gratton in this thread You won't like it Mr Bozo Huge loss: Bulldogs center Benoit Gratton, the AHL’s leading scorer with 19 goals, 36 assists and 55 points, may not play again this season after undergoing surgery on his right hand. Gratton underwent a procedure Friday and Saturday to treat a blood clot in his hand. Without the procedure, Gratton faced risks that spanned the spectrum, from “chronic pain to major sensory loss to even finger gangrene,” Dr. Jacques Tittley told The Hamilton Spectator. Gratton hasn’t played since Jan. 3. www.rochesterdandc.com/sports/amerks/0120story2_amerks.shtml
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 20, 2003 8:54:51 GMT -5
Since there was lots of talk about Gratton in this thread You won't like it Mr Bozo Huge loss: Bulldogs center Benoit Gratton, the AHL’s leading scorer with 19 goals, 36 assists and 55 points, may not play again this season after undergoing surgery on his right hand. Gratton underwent a procedure Friday and Saturday to treat a blood clot in his hand. Without the procedure, Gratton faced risks that spanned the spectrum, from “chronic pain to major sensory loss to even finger gangrene,” Dr. Jacques Tittley told The Hamilton Spectator. Gratton hasn’t played since Jan. 3. www.rochesterdandc.com/sports/amerks/0120story2_amerks.shtmlDamn!
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 20, 2003 9:37:02 GMT -5
Since there was lots of talk about Gratton in this thread You won't like it Mr Bozo Huge loss: Bulldogs center Benoit Gratton, the AHL’s leading scorer with 19 goals, 36 assists and 55 points, may not play again this season after undergoing surgery on his right hand. Gratton underwent a procedure Friday and Saturday to treat a blood clot in his hand. Without the procedure, Gratton faced risks that spanned the spectrum, from “chronic pain to major sensory loss to even finger gangrene,” Dr. Jacques Tittley told The Hamilton Spectator. Gratton hasn’t played since Jan. 3. www.rochesterdandc.com/sports/amerks/0120story2_amerks.shtml Good luck to Gratton.
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Post by Psycorp on Jan 20, 2003 13:29:12 GMT -5
Larrivée? I think he is playing center with Chicoutimi(Psycorp...do you know?) I wouldn't read too much in Plekanec's numbers offensively this season(his stats are : 44 games, 12 goals,14 assists, 26 points...http://www.theahl.com/StatsHKA/BC-HKA-STAT-HAMILTONSTAX-R.html)...he has been 3rd line center(behind Gratton and Stoll) for a good chunk of the season in Hamilton. I think if he was the number 1 center on the team, he would have a few more points by now... well MP, last year Larrivée played left wing all along but this year he played left wing when paired with Yvan Busque and Pierre-Alexandre Parenteau. But on the second line, he alternated between center and left wing depending on the players on this line. (P.S. remember the -30 year he got playing center?) but this year being much better defensively wise, he got success at center. He now hit a lot, at least once, often twice and trice IN A SHIFT, he look more and more like Steeve Rucchin (probably not as good at NHL level of course) And lately, he did put up better numbers(his coach told him to shoot more, he got devastating slap shot).
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 20, 2003 16:32:37 GMT -5
I dunno where Ribeiro will fit but I don't think Savard is a big fan of Gratton. 2 years ago there was a feud between him and Therrien about who would start the season in Montreal Gratton or Ribs. AS was on Ribs side while Therrien was on Gratton's. Ribs stayed.
Gratton and Ward did great things for Julien's team but the first guy he told the organization to bring up when called upon was Hossa and then Chow. The guy obviously prefers skill to grit and that fits with AS and with the team we got. What will happen tol Ribs? I dunno but IMO he will get a chance at some point to play more then 7 mins with Blouin and McKay.
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Post by habwest on Jan 20, 2003 18:05:50 GMT -5
Yea, I'm not a fan of Ribs but he should get a chance, to be fair to him and for the Habs to be able to make up their minds about the guy. The problem will be fitting him in with a push to make the playoffs.
My latest image of Ribs is always turning away when a hit is coming. He is nifty with the puck but....
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