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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Jan 18, 2003 23:10:06 GMT -5
Julien has been up to his neck with our prospects. He has strong preferences on what kind of player he wants. I can see the wheels turning on the image of Gratton or someone like that centering the fourth line. I wouldn't be surprised to see Lindsay back pretty soon, and Kilger to see a good deal of ice over the next couple of weeks.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 18, 2003 23:15:27 GMT -5
Keep in mind Julien benched Ribeiro at the WJC in key games in 1999-2000
And Ribeiro was touted as one of the best players on the team. He really wasn't goo at all in that tourney.
Wouldn't surprise me at all if he was traded. Maybe because of other reasons than Julien though.
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Post by MC Habber on Jan 18, 2003 23:36:31 GMT -5
It could happen, but I hope it doesn't. I think it's too soon; whatever they get for Ribs will probably not have an impact now, unless Ribs is a 'throw in' as part of a Hackett deal or something. Maybe later in the season as the deadline approaches, but consider this: AS likes to stockpile youth, doesn't want to trade kids for old guys, and throws draft picks around quite freely, so I don't think he'll move Ribs by himself, and probably not in a package unless he either gets someone young or someone who will make a difference right away.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Jan 18, 2003 23:57:01 GMT -5
I think Savard is interested in "stockpiling" youth that fits into his plans. He's clearly not interested in youth for its own sake, otherwise he'd have hung on to dyment and would be using Asham on the third or fourth line rather than Dackell or Mckay.
If AS doesn't see Ribeiro in the picture next year, and if he can't send him to Hamilton without losing him on waivers, then he absolutely will move him. If Julien decides he has to have a functioning fourth line with a gritty center, it's curtains for Mike Ribeiro's ice time this year. Because he's not going to dress Ribeiro just to use him on the powerplay. If that happens, Savard has to decide if he wants to have Ribeiro (a guy who doesn't fit the blueprint) sitting in the pressbox taking up a valuable roster spot. If you know you're going to have trouble moving Donald Audette, and Gilmour's back is going to settle down, and you'd dearly like to have Gratton or Ward (not both) working the fourth line with Lindsay, Kilger and McKay, then Ribeiro's not just not helping the team (like Blouin) but he's actually in the way, too. Ribeiro has been able to practice with the club, dress most nights and get some powerplay time because he's the fourth line center. But if he's not what you need in a fourth line center and you can't send him down, and he doesn't look like a blue-chipper to play somewhere on your roster next year..the answer is obvious.
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Post by TheHabsfan on Jan 19, 2003 0:07:39 GMT -5
If Ribs is what it takes in combo with Hack and a spare part to land a big D, I say do it. We have a lot of youth coming up...one less small centerman won't hurt us that much in the long run. But a big D will help us now.
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Post by PTH on Jan 19, 2003 0:09:14 GMT -5
JV, I very much see your point, but if Julien really wants to play 4 lines, having some skill on there isn't a bad starting point. Kilger-Ribeiro-McKay can work, Kilger flipping to C and Blouin taking Ribs spot when we're facing really big teams.
I think from now to the deadline is a key point in Ribeiro's career.... he'll get ice time, and needs to show that he really belongs. If he doesn't he's on his way out, if he does, well, then we find a way to get around his lack of grit.
And I wouldn't be too surprised if McKay were dealt and Ward given his slot.
Hopefully audette is taken out and shot... soon.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 19, 2003 0:26:53 GMT -5
I was really surprised at how slow Mike looked tonight. He has the hands and the head, but those legs! If Mikey was a sperm, he'd never reach the egg.
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Post by Habsolution on Jan 19, 2003 0:38:41 GMT -5
Answer might lie with Gratton and Ward ?
How would a
Gratton-Ribeiro-Ward line look ?
I know gratton is playing center but he is left handed so I guess he could go to the wing since Ribeiro is too slow and too small to play the wing
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Jan 19, 2003 0:44:10 GMT -5
JV, I very much see your point, but if Julien really wants to play 4 lines, having some skill on there isn't a bad starting point. Kilger-Ribeiro-McKay can work, Kilger flipping to C and Blouin taking Ribs spot when we're facing really big teams. I think from now to the deadline is a key point in Ribeiro's career.... he'll get ice time, and needs to show that he really belongs. If he doesn't he's on his way out, if he does, well, then we find a way to get around his lack of grit. And I wouldn't be too surprised if McKay were dealt and Ward given his slot. Hopefully audette is taken out and shot... soon. Disagree with one thing. First, you don't need Ribeiro's type of skill on the fourth line. You need Gratton's type of anti-skill. You need an irritant. Ribeiro will never be an irritant. He may emerge as a smooth 2nd or 3rd line center some day (highly doubtful, imo) but he'll never be an irritant. I agree from now to the deadline is important for Mike, but I disagree that he'll get any kind of real assessment. Julien knows what Mike can do and he'll see more of it in practice. If it's not enough to convince Iulien, and if Savard doesn't have some kind of fixed idea about Ribeiro in the CH down the line, Ribeiro's fate will have nothing to do with a "good hard look" at this level with offensively skilled linemates. That's not going to happen for a number of reasons, imo, including the precarious position the Habs are in and the need for a seriously responsible attitude to neutral zone defence and the forecheck. It has more to do with whether Julien decides he wants a truly gritty 4th line. Seeing as Blouin had a season high 6+ minutes on the fourth, that seems like a good bet. If so, Ribeiro's not what Julien is going to want.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Jan 19, 2003 0:45:41 GMT -5
Answer might lie with Gratton and Ward ? How would a Gratton-Ribeiro-Ward line look ? I know gratton is playing center but he is left handed so I guess he could go to the wing since Ribeiro is too slow and too small to play the wing No.
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Post by Habsolution on Jan 19, 2003 0:49:57 GMT -5
I just love those well thought out and developped answers ... Anyway it's not possible to bring up 2 guys ... we already have too many. Maybe next year.
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Post by JacquesInFL on Jan 19, 2003 0:53:35 GMT -5
JV, what you say seems entirely possible now. When Gilmour returns and, hopefully, Kilger adds another NHL-size body to lineup there is no compelling reason for Ribeiro to see ice. 35 games remaining and definitely time to arrive with "game face" and meaningfully constructed lines each night. Something tells me McKay would be first to admit 4th line is getting absolutely nothing done in manner it has been constituted tonight and most of season.
If only offers for Savard are 8th rounder, etc. then I just sit Ribeiro is pressbox and see what landscape looks next year when Gilmour could be gone, Perreault could break his wrist in training camp, etc. You never know.
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Post by PTH on Jan 19, 2003 0:55:18 GMT -5
I just love those well thought out and developped answers ... Anyway it's not possible to bring up 2 guys ... we already have too many. Maybe next year. I hate 1-line posts too, I feel they fill the board for no good reason, but JV is one of the people around here who consistently puts up a good, convincing argument. You can agree to disagree with him, but he doesn't just take a stand without explaining it... If you want to critisize for short posts with no content, there are plenty of better targets... As to 2 guys coming up - we can expect the Habs to make changes in both directions, both up and down, some guys might be sent down, waived, traded, bought out or just taken out back and shot.
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Post by PTH on Jan 19, 2003 0:59:20 GMT -5
Disagree with one thing. First, you don't need Ribeiro's type of skill on the fourth line. You need Gratton's type of anti-skill. You need an irritant. Ribeiro will never be an irritant. He may emerge as a smooth 2nd or 3rd line center some day (highly doubtful, imo) but he'll never be an irritant. Agreed there. Agreed again, I just happen to think that CJ will want a 4th line with some skill, so it can play a bit more. He won't be playing Mckay and Blouin more than he has to, but a reliable 2-way 4th line might fetch an 8 or 9 minutes. Kilger, Lindsay, McKay, whoever loses a spot when Gilmour is back, there are plenty of options for decent all-round players for the 4th line. Just having fun playing Devil's advocate here..... Ribeiro might be traded tomorrow just as well. I have nothing against the guy, but don't really think very highly of him. I just don't want to see another kid given up on too soon.
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Post by MC Habber on Jan 19, 2003 1:52:41 GMT -5
JV, I do see your point, but I guess I see Ribeiro as being in the habs future and I think AS has not given up on him, based on comments he has made in the summer and during this season. I pretty much agree with PTH.
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Post by Habsolution on Jan 19, 2003 2:23:03 GMT -5
I hate 1-line posts too, I feel they fill the board for no good reason, but JV is one of the people around here who consistently puts up a good, convincing argument. You can agree to disagree with him, but he doesn't just take a stand without explaining it... If you want to critisize for short posts with no content, there are plenty of better targets... As to 2 guys coming up - we can expect the Habs to make changes in both directions, both up and down, some guys might be sent down, waived, traded, bought out or just taken out back and shot. I couldn't care less about him being consistently putting convincing argument. It's not the fact he fills the board for no good reasons. It's more the fact he doesn't agree and then doesn't bother saying why as if the suggestion was so idiotic it wasn't even worth an answer. If you can't think or don't want to give reasons to why you don't agree with me just ignore my post as of no interest. It's about respecting other people that's all. But I don't want to get further into this as this is filling the board for naught.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 19, 2003 3:00:29 GMT -5
If you want to critisize for short posts with no content, there are plenty of better targets... I agree.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 19, 2003 7:05:36 GMT -5
Answer might lie with Gratton and Ward ? How would a Gratton-Ribeiro-Ward line look ? I know gratton is playing center but he is left handed so I guess he could go to the wing since Ribeiro is too slow and too small to play the wing That's possible, Gratton has played both wings in the past, but centre is his strongest position. I kept track of his faceoff stats last season and he was over 60% in training camp and during his stint with the Habs. I've been championing Benoit since shortly after Savard snatched him from the Flames. To the point that it became an in-joke amongst the FanHome Habs community. His career has been bedevilled by ill-timed injury (not that he's by nature a brittle player) and bad luck. I believe that given the chance he'd flourish as a third or fourth liner. One thing he doesn't do is coast. You can count on 100% effort 100% of the time. HA can verify this, though he'll probably mutter something about putting steriods in his pasta sauce. A "Kid Line"? Sure, why not? Except I'd have it look like this: Ribeiro-Gratton-Ward. Putting those guys on the ice for 8 minutes a game wouldn't yield any worse results than we're getting from our current recyclables. Ribeiro's not going anywhere. Not with Gilmour's imminent retirement and the organizational thinness at centre. I think he'll come along nicely under Julien's tutelage.
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Post by habwest on Jan 19, 2003 10:22:50 GMT -5
I think what JV and PTH say makes a lot of sense. I can't really see him fitting in as part of the Habs long term plans either and from the fact that AS only signed him to a one year contract I don't think that he does either. Savard figured that Ribs had learned everything that he could in the AHL so he gave him one year with the Habs to prove himself, just like he gave Ward one more year in Hamilton, just in case. It's kind of ironic that it may have helped Ward but not Ribs.
JacquesInFla makes an interesting point about next year. The organization is still pretty thin at center. Right now we have Koivu, Perreault (who really is a winger who takes faceoffs), Gilmour, Juneau, Ribs and Kilger or Lindsay in a pinch. Juneau is getting a bit long in the tooth and may not last beyond his contract. Gilmour is really long in the tooth and may not be back next year. I would like to see Kilger get a real chance as the centerpiece of a checking line that could handle other big centers in the East. But CJ doesn't appear to think that way so that's probably out. Koivu I just don't yet see as a true top line center, not yet anyway. He's been injured too much. He may become one under CJ but, regardless, this does not have the makings of "strength down the center" that's going to scare anybody, except us maybe. When I ruminate about the great Habs teams they were ALWAYS strong down the center.
In the minors we've got Gratton as a 4th line candidate. Plekanec who's been moved to LW. Higgins will probably need a year in Hamilton IF he decides to turn pro for next year. So if all the geezers return intact maybe Ribs isn't needed but o/w he just might come in handy as a fill in for a year as Jacques said.
But if I could get any kind of decent return on him I'd move him, separately or as part of a package, especially if it was a big checking center coming back this way. Or a decent draft pick. Savard has kind of been spending them lately and I wouldn't mind seeing some come back our way.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 19, 2003 10:37:03 GMT -5
I Plekanec who's been moved to LW. No he hasn't. He is centering the 2nd line.
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Post by UberCranky on Jan 19, 2003 11:06:07 GMT -5
I also have a hard time seeing Ribiero in the CH for our future. One of the basic things Savard looks for is sound skating abilities. There is no doubt in my mind that he is trying to recreate the Senators here but with a bit more size and grit.
Having said that, Higgins and Milroy are not in the Plekanek/Hossa class. Mind you, that’s only from reports I read and have not seen them personally.
Lets look at scenarios and my take on them:
1. A Ward, Gratton, Lindsay line is a very poor mans 2nd line. I can not be a checking line because Gratton is too small fir large centers and Ward is too slow. It can not be a energy “hitting” line because of the same reason.
2. Ward, Gratton, Blouin puts more of an edge on it but it is still WAY short of a hitting line.
3. Blouin, Gratton, Lindsay is more hitting and agitating but it now is useless for scoring. Gratton agitation is great asset but his passing and good vision is now wasted.
4. Ward, Gratton, Ribiero is now a slow, semi skilled and small line. Gratton is going to have a hell of a time getting the puck, Ribiero is useless in the corners. Ward can get the puck but the other two are WAY too small to crash the net. Never mind crashing, even standing up in front of the net would be an accomplishment for Ribs. Hitting line, only if they were in AHL. Energy? Who Ribs? This line does not work on many levels.
I think that first and foremost there has to be a definition of what a fourth line is and then seek solutions for it. Now we are tossing candidates at it who are defining it. I know that it is a chicken and egg problem but I think that the line “definition” should come first.
Habsolution, JV does not normally answer with a “No”. You are fairly new with us and you will get use to our little quirks. His “no” should of come with a “rolling eyes” picture on it because he is does not see Ribs in Hab’s future. Your suggestion of that line gave him heart burn. Have some patience with us and remember HabsRus poster know each other for years.
Unfortunately, Ribs is not a good solution to any problems now. Forget the future tense. Higgins and Pleks will over shadow him soon. Don’t blame the Hab’s for Ribs woes. He should of work MUCH, MUCH harder on his skating speed and quickness.
BTW, Al, I do see a future for Gratton but he may only have this year and next to grab it and keep it. He may be overun by the new seedlings that are rapidly growing. Julien may be the best thing that happened to Gratton.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 19, 2003 11:19:27 GMT -5
Kilger-Gratton-Ward Could that work? especially if Kilger plays like a man who knows he must step it up and save his job? BTW, I want to know what you mean by Higgins and Milroy not in the Hossa/Pleks class...you mean skating wise? Yes. They are both smoooooth and fairly fast with very good balance.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 19, 2003 11:32:50 GMT -5
...BTW, Al, I do see a future for Gratton but he may only have this year and next to grab it and keep it. He may be overun by the new seedlings that are rapidly growing. Julien may be the best thing that happened to Gratton. I'm counting on it. Therrien was the best thing to happen for Ben (aside from his own stellar training camps), but St-André said "no" to keeping him out of camp two seasons ago. Only injuries on the Habs gave him a chance. And then, bad luck saw him injured himself. This year another outstanding camp. Bulldogs captain, AHL leading scorer, AHL leader in minor penalties, and some other important categories. Another guy who's coached him has praise: "I've always played well defensively," he said, "but I've always (felt I) can play two ways. This year we have a good team and good linemates. I think that's why I'm playing really well right now." Among Gratton's admirers is Hamilton Coach Claude Julien. "For him it's consistency every night," Julien said. "Every night he plays hard. He's in your face, he's focused and everybody else just follows him. He's our captain and rightfully so." Hello? Hello? Anyone out there? sports.mainetoday.com/pirates/stories/021201pirates.shtml
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Post by HFTO on Jan 19, 2003 11:33:14 GMT -5
Ribs certainly has talent but he will never crack the top two lines which IMO diminishes any real contributions to this team.We have enough small skilled forwards Ribs would be best to be moved before any value he does carry diminishes. HFTO
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 19, 2003 11:36:47 GMT -5
Among Gratton's admirers is Hamilton Coach Claude Julien. "For him it's consistency every night," Julien said. "Every night he plays hard. He's in your face, he's focused and everybody else just follows him. He's our captain and rightfully so." - sports.mainetoday.com/pirates/stories/021201pirates.shtmlhttp://sports.mainetoday.com/pirates/stories/021201pirates.shtml Hello? Hello? Anyone out there? Gratton is going to see a Habs jersey in his future with CJ at the helm IMO
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Post by montreal on Jan 19, 2003 12:37:53 GMT -5
Kilger-Gratton-Ward Could that work? especially if Kilger plays like a man who knows he must step it up and save his job? BTW, I want to know what you mean by Higgins and Milroy not in the Hossa/Pleks class...you mean skating wise? Yes. They are both smoooooth and fairly fast with very good balance.Well I think Higgins is in the Pleks, Hossa class. Higgins is a very good skater, with decent speed. Milroy, isn't a bad skater, but he's not very fast. His speed will have to be improved, IMO, but hopefully he's learns somethings in the AHL next year.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 19, 2003 12:51:55 GMT -5
Well I think Higgins is in the Pleks, Hossa class. Higgins is a very good skater, with decent speed. Milroy, isn't a bad skater, but he's not very fast. His speed will have to be improved, IMO, but hopefully he's learns somethings in the AHL next year. Hmmm...noticed your sig. I'll split the roast with you but I'm keeping the crackling.
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Post by zenseeker on Jan 19, 2003 15:46:37 GMT -5
I'am also under the belief that Ribs doesn't fit into the future of this team. He needs to be on a larger team where his size is less of a factor. I also believe we would be better served if Dackell is moved as well. Ward and Gratton deserve a chance on the big team, and to do this we have to make room. Of course we would want to get rid of Audette first but unfortunately his trade value is nill. We offer this package around the league and see if there are any takers.
Hackett+ribs+dackell
for:
Tough mid twenties stay at home defenseman
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jan 19, 2003 16:00:07 GMT -5
Ribeiro has produced at every level (including the NHL) when he was given a chance to play. He is a scorer. He isn't big (not that small though and still young). He isn't fast. He isn't a great checker. I've had the good fortune to watch Robitaille in LA. He is a scorer. He isn't big. He isn't fast either. He isn't a great checker. If Ribs has half the career Lucky Luc did I want him on my team. He has the intangibles, vision, offensive savy that you can't teach to Kilger.
Ribs may not make it, but let's give him the opportunity to try.
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Post by zenseeker on Jan 19, 2003 16:15:38 GMT -5
It's not that i don't think ribs has talent. It's just the players around him in montreal for the next few years, won't facilitate the kind of environment that Ribs needs to suceed. I think we would be better served by rectifying current problems with the team's make-up, by using Ribs as a tradeable asset. I think as Habs fans we are nervous about trading unproven youngsters, but in the end you need to take a chance. Not every young player we trade will turn into Leclair, at least we hope not.
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