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Post by AH on Jan 19, 2003 12:24:57 GMT -5
Splitting these 2 guys up may actually be best not only for the team, but for Zednik's overall game. Here are some reasons: (someone else brought this up and I thought it made a lot of sense)
a) Zed and Koivu are both VERY dynamic players. They are also very similar players. These days Zed is hardly working trying to get to the puck. He is always waiting for the perfect Koivu pass. b) They both like to carry the puck thru the neutral zone. We haven't seen that from Zed because Koivu is the one doing that. Zed is becoming less of a player by playing with Koivu. c) Zed was at his best during the Boston series because he was the go to guy. Now he is no longer that person and his overall game has taken a dip, eventhough he is headed for the best statistical season of his life. d) I also believe that Zed is best when he is playing LW. He sees the ice a lot better.
Bulis - Koivu - Hossa Zed - Gilmour - Chow Juneau - Perreault - Petrov
Giving Gilmour back the 2nd line center position is something to think about as well. I also don't believe that Hossa can stick on the first line for much longer (too much pressure). Dip him to the third spot and try to get another winger for Koivu. Hmmm Daze would look nice ... and funny there was a rumour the AS was recently after him.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 19, 2003 12:29:29 GMT -5
Interesting idea... Maybe put the Zednik-Gilmour-Petrov line back together? as for Daze....the back problems scare me...27 years old and back problems? not good
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Post by AH on Jan 19, 2003 12:32:23 GMT -5
Interesting idea... Maybe put the Zednik-Gilmour-Petrov line back together? as for Daze....the back problems scare me...27 years old and back problems? not good Well I don't intend for this thread to be a Daze thread. I just mentioned it because someone like him would be a better fit with Koivu. I wanted to talk about the merits of splitting up our 2 best players.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 19, 2003 12:37:23 GMT -5
True. Maybe one thing we could do is switch Hossa and Zednik on that line...Zed plays LW and Marcel RW? I do like Zed's game better at LW but to back up your point and we all know whoever plays with Saku is bound to produce. and Zed has shown that in the past as well..he can get Gilmour and Perreault going. Nice to have so many options eh? so......... Hossa-Koivu-Chow(it can work) Zednik-Gilmour-Petrov Bulis-Perreault- Audette maybe? McKay? A LW to complement Juneau and Dackell on 4th line
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Post by Viper on Jan 19, 2003 14:14:58 GMT -5
Bulis Koivu and Hossa HMMM very intersting not that i have any preference to see Bulis on the first line or anything like that but with Hossa as a sniper Koivu as a playmaker and Bulis as a defensive conciense that could be quite an interesting lineup especially if Bulis can find the net . Zed with Gilmour would work so would he with Perreault IMO as Yanic needs a hard worker on his line. True. Hossa-Koivu-Chow(it can work) Zednik-Gilmour-Petrov Bulis-Perreault- Audette maybe? McKay? A LW to complement Juneau and Dackell on 4th line any lineup that includes Audette in any way needs trashing ;D chow needs to be the first line goto guy to perform and with Hossa there would be 2 snipers for saku to feed !! that would be bang or bust depending on Chow IMO. he could make or break the line depending on weather or not he responds and does Hossa have the smarts defensively ?? that would be alot of work for saku if Marcel doesn't show any D very intersting concept i wonder if CJ is a poster here
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Post by Swane on Jan 19, 2003 14:53:18 GMT -5
A Kilger- Perrault- Bulis line might work. As long as Audette is sitting I'm happy.
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Post by Rhiessan on Jan 19, 2003 20:26:01 GMT -5
Imo the only problem I see with taking Zedder away from Koivu is the only player you can seriously replace him with is Chow and while I seem to be one of the few that seems to like him, I still see he can be a little suspect D wise. So with what looks like Jules is going to be playing our top line against the opp's top line alot more do you really want to put more pressure on young Hossa? If not then you have to take Hossa off as well and replace him with a Kilger or Bulis. I myself wouldn't consider this a bad thing but where does this leave Hossa maybe with Gilmour and Zedder...hmmmmmmmm actually sounds pretty good. Maybe....
Bulis-Koivu-Chow Hossa-Gilmour-Zedder Juneau-Perreault-Petrov or Ratdog Kilger-Ribeiro-McKay or Dackel
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Jan 19, 2003 21:46:39 GMT -5
Excellent post. Not sure I agree, but the idea has some merit, for sure. Zednick is a left winger, imo. Not only does he see the ice better but he's in a better shooting position much more often.
If Julien can get Czerk going (I'm less hopeful about Donald) that could free Zednick to go back to the left side. And since we desperately need two lines clicking offensively, maybe Zed's the muscular guy to do the job on the left wing for Gilmour.
The idea of moving Hossa to the right side puts him on his off-wing, which may not be ideal for him. I don't know if he was playing the right side in Hamilton or if he played both sides in Slovakia, and if he did it would change obviously change things, but if he's really a left winger at this point then that's where I'd use him. To me, shifting wings is as dramatic for most forwards (with Europeans being the usual exceptions) as switching sides is for defencemen.
Anyway, the other thing is Perreault. Having him center the 3rd line isn't ideal for defensive reasons. I'd have him play in the spot occupied by Czerkawski last night, on the third line's left side. He could still take the draws, but otherwise I'd rather have Juneau at center. Even though he seems to lose more one-on-one battles than he used to, Juneau is still a pretty scrappy player -- and definitely more so than Perreault.
On the whole, I'd think Zednick might be the guy to balance the scoring on the top two lines, but I'm not sure Hossa can take the extra load and expectations that come with being the designated trigger man for Saku Koivu. How about this?
Hossa/Koivu/Czerkawski Zednick/Gilmour/Petrov Perreault/Juneau/Dackell Bulis/Kilger/Mckay
It doesn't seem fair to Jan Bulis, admittedly, or even to a lesser extent to Chad Kilger, but it has the advantage of being made up of four really balanced lines.
By the way, this is one of the first times I can say "I have no idea what the lineup is going to look like tonight". If Gilmour, Audette and Kilger (who was supposed to have hurt his knee) are ready to go, what will Julien do. After all, the boys gave him a good effort against Toronto and deserved every bit of the tie and perhaps more. It'll be interesting to see.
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Post by Habsolution on Jan 19, 2003 21:56:11 GMT -5
Don't be in the dark anymore lines are going to be
Hossa-Koivu-Zed McKay-Gilmour-Audette Bulis-Perreault-Petrov Chow-Juneau-Dackel
CJ said his 2nd would be McKay-Gilmour-Audette and he said koivu, perreault and juneau lines will remain like that.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Jan 19, 2003 22:08:09 GMT -5
Don't be in the dark anymore lines are going to be Hossa-Koivu-Zed McKay-Gilmour-Audette Bulis-Perreault-Petrov Chow-Juneau-Dackel CJ said his 2nd would be McKay-Gilmour-Audette and he said koivu, perreault and juneau lines will remain like that. Julien's definitely got his own ideas. One thing that I like is that he's determined to use four lines. Keeping people involved and keeping shifts short are both good things.
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Post by Habsolution on Jan 19, 2003 22:20:50 GMT -5
Julien's definitely got his own ideas. One thing that I like is that he's determined to use four lines. Keeping people involved and keeping shifts short are both good things. Using 4 lines that can score is the way to go IMO. We all know that we have too many small scoring forwards. Now you can whine about it and lay low or you can try to use it as an advantage and give the team an identity. MT wanted big bad hard workers but the reality was different. He either didn't want to change his ways or didn't know how to change them. Now we have an identity. We're an offensive team that can score goals. What everyone thought we were at the beginning of the season. AS gave an extension to MT cuz he thought he could make that bunch of old vet's come together. He had not the psychology to do that and didn't know how to use the players he had. Some people say AS was the wrong GM for Therrien. That is true in some ways ... but in my mind the truth is that a coach has to adapt to what his GM give him to work with. It's not as if AS could make all the trades that would satisfy MT and build a whole team from scratch in 2 years. AS did a fairly good job out of what he had. Now all the players are going to be used like they should have been from the beginning. Allelujah !
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 19, 2003 22:41:39 GMT -5
Don't be in the dark anymore lines are going to be Hossa-Koivu-Zed McKay-Gilmour-Audette Bulis-Perreault-Petrov Chow-Juneau-Dackel CJ said his 2nd would be McKay-Gilmour-Audette and he said koivu, perreault and juneau lines will remain like that. We are playing 2 natural RW(Chow and McKay) on LW with those lines...so I wouldn't bet on them staying together IMO..the important thing is to find the right balance of... -Goal scoring -playmaking -defensive presence -Size -Speed On each line.
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Post by GoMtl on Jan 19, 2003 22:58:59 GMT -5
we are now a 4 line team. i think CJ will be rolling all 4 lines regularily now, with added icetime to whichever line is playing best. although this will probably cut back our top line's icetime it might not be a bad thing for a team that had consistantly sucked in third periods of hockey games. now by playing 4 lines consistantly we will be keeping our players much fresher, and for a small team 60 minutes can drain your players a lot when you're not playing all 4 lines, so i'm expecting a boost in effort in third periods compared to the pre CJ era (the MT era).
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Post by Habsolution on Jan 19, 2003 23:03:14 GMT -5
We are playing 2 natural RW(Chow and McKay) on LW with those lines...so I wouldn't bet on them staying together IMO..the important thing is to find the right balance of... -Goal scoring -playmaking -defensive presence -Size -Speed On each line. Yup but McKay being off his wing his a non-factor It's not like he passes a lot or shots a lot Chow is more of a problem ... but you can still put Dackell on the L wing instead. But I agree with you ... Lines are not going to stay like that. Kilger will come back and he'll also get his chance. It's more of a way for CJ to evaluate his lines. He made 4 scoring lines to know which 3 he is going to use. We'll probably have 3 scoring lines and a checking one.
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Post by TheHabsfan on Jan 19, 2003 23:12:17 GMT -5
An interesting post. Zed is the kind of player who would work on either 1st or 2nd line. He is an energetic, aggresive player who fits in well with both Koivu and Gilmour. However, I am not so keen about seperating Koivu from Zed. You make the point that the players are similar and that Saku carries the puck more and takes that part of the game away from Zed. I see it the other way around. Having two forwards who are strong on the puck are perfect for the first line. This gives us options and the opposing team needs to focus on two targets rather than one. They are similar...in some ways ...but quite different in others. For instance, Koivu is a great passer and playmaker. Zed is a great finisher. What better combo. Also, Zed is strong in the corners and brings in that power forward quality that Chow wouldn't bring to the first line. The first line has been for the last couple of weeks, the most consistent line. Don't fix what ain't broken, I say. The first line is working great with 2 decent size forwards in Hossa and Zednik. A playmaking center in Koivu and they all skate very well. I say leave it alone. I would see Chow coming into his own playing with Gilmour and McKay. Again, Gilmour the playmaker, McKay the grinder and Chow, the finisher. I would leave the Bulis-JJ-AD line intact for now. The 4th line needs some work. A heavyweight is needed badly. I would play Kilger at center. He is big, skates well and is responsible defensively; an asset on the 4th line. cheers,
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