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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 17, 2003 20:44:46 GMT -5
I don't agree with those who blame Therrien for everything that was going wrong but he lost the room a while ago and needed to go.
But why, why, why did we have to rush Julien in???
For all we know Julien could be the answer and of course he has a nice resume, but so did Therrien at the time he got hired. After the failure of Tremblay, Vigneault and Therrien one would have thought that a coach with some NHL experience might have been at least looked at. Nothing explains why Savard rushed his choice of Julien. After firing Therrien, the time was perfect to take step back, look at the big picture and meet a few candidates to see what they have to say. But no, ever since the team has been sold and that money has been available, Savard's management can pretty much be resumed with one panicky short term moves after another.
All Savard had to do was to get Charron in as the replacement and start working towards getting the best possible candidate...
But no. Savard got a guy in that will owe HIM his big break and big pay check and so he'll be able to have his way with the team... again. For Pete's sake, head coaches in Montreal don't even get to chose their own friggin assistants...
The Savard show goes on...
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 17, 2003 20:58:24 GMT -5
I don't agree with those who blame Therrien for everything that was going wrong but he lost the room a while ago and needed to go. But why, why, why did we have to rush Julien in??? For all we know Julien could be the answer and of course he has a nice resume, but so did Therrien at the time he got hired. After the failure of Tremblay, Vigneault and Therrien one would have thought that a coach with some NHL experience might have been at least looked at. Nothing explains why Savard rushed his choice of Julien. After firing Therrien, the time was perfect to take step back, look at the big picture and meet a few candidates to see what they have to say. But no, ever since the team has been sold and that money has been available, Savard's management can pretty much be resumed with one panicky short term moves after another. All Savard had to do was to get Charron in as the replacement and start working towards getting the best possible candidate... But no. Savard got a guy in that will owe HIM his big break and big pay check and so he'll be able to have his way with the team... again. For Pete's sake, head coaches in Montreal don't even get to chose their own friggin assistants... The Savard show goes on... I wouldn't have wanted Charron as head coach. He couldn't get the players on the PK to buy into his system (if there is one), how would he get a team to buy into his system.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 17, 2003 21:00:44 GMT -5
All Savard had to do was to get Charron in as the replacement and start working towards getting the best possible candidate... Charron? Basically you are saying you were ready to let this season go into the dumpster? Giving Charron the job would not be bringing in new blood. It would be almost ''more of the same''. And after what Charron has done to the PK..I doubt he is all that popular among the Habs...
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 17, 2003 21:08:24 GMT -5
Charron? Basically you are saying you were ready to let this season go into the dumpster? Giving Charron the job would not be bringing in new blood. It would be almost ''more of the same''. And after what Charron has done to the PK..I doubt he is all that popular among the Habs... And who picked the great Charron Who picked the great Green ? Who gave MT 2 extensions ? Savard is one great guy at coach assessment is he... Marc, picking up an important employee without giving yourself a few options is Mickey Mouse management, no matter how you want to spin it.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 17, 2003 21:11:52 GMT -5
I understand........ but how many quality candidates who speak french(a must here) were available? Robinson has said no to another team this year(believe it was the Flames) and seems more interested in playing polo in Florida... Gainey apparently told Red Fisher he doesn't want to coach for 2 years.. Who else is left? And don't coaches get to choose their assistants?
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Post by GARB08 on Jan 17, 2003 21:12:40 GMT -5
Savard's butt was on the line and he needed to move. Not one person here will say Savard hasn't made any mistakes but he needed to make a move and he must realize know his ass is next.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 17, 2003 21:19:13 GMT -5
Savard's butt was on the line and he needed to move. Not one person here will say Savard hasn't made any mistakes but he needed to make a move and he must realize know his ass is next. No question there, he had to move and firing MT was the right to do given the circumstances. But hiring Julien did not have to happen so quickly.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 17, 2003 21:21:04 GMT -5
But hiring Julien did not have to happen so quickly. I want to know...is it because you feel Julien is just not ready for the job or do you feel eventually better candidates would have become available? did you feel MT could turn it around? Or some combination of the three?
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 17, 2003 21:23:04 GMT -5
I understand........ but how many quality candidates who speak french(a must here) were available? Robinson has said no to another team this year(believe it was the Flames) and seems more interested in playing polo in Florida... Gainey apparently told Red Fisher he doesn't want to coach for 2 years.. Who else is left? And don't coaches get to choose their assistants? Marc... You're reaching... The mother of all coaches wasn't dead I can assure you.... Savard should have taken a step back. Heck maybe Julien IS the right choice but the fact that he picked him without looking around isn't a great testimony of Savard's manager's skills.
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Post by HFTO on Jan 17, 2003 21:30:21 GMT -5
Doc my reaction was the same,though I did take solace in what people had to say about Julien(did I have a choice.) Anyways Savard is on his own watch now!Maybe not this year he has an excuse if the Habs fail to make the playoffs which is probably going to happen. Next year however he better hope Julien is the right guy or its bye bye Andre. Gillet may very well be doing his own due diligence as we speak he won't want to lose for long. I to am tired one step forward and two steps back is not progress this team needs to be one of the elite period. HFTO
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 17, 2003 21:32:45 GMT -5
I want to know...is it because you feel Julien is just not ready for the job or do you feel eventually better candidates would have become available? did you feel MT could turn it around? Or some combination of the three? Therrien had to go. That part Savard got right. Savard DID NOT do a thourough process of evaluating his options... Nobody knows who might have express an interest... Nobody. Pierre McGuire often said that Savard doesn't do his homework and doesn't consider all his options when he makes a trade. I always felt that was BS from McGuire but now I am not so sure...
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Post by PTH on Jan 17, 2003 22:02:29 GMT -5
I don't agree with those who blame Therrien for everything that was going wrong but he lost the room a while ago and needed to go. But why, why, why did we have to rush Julien in??? While I see your point, I'm surprised that you're the one making it.... would you have preferred to give Charron a try - which means either tanking the season, or likely getting Charron as permanent coach. Neither alternative seems all that attractive to me. I agree that AS didn't go very far to find himself a coach.... he basically followed the Houle route and took the AHL coach (like Houle did when he hired MT)
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Post by PTH on Jan 17, 2003 22:03:27 GMT -5
Marc... You're reaching... The mother of all coaches wasn't dead I can assure you.... Savard should have taken a step back. Heck maybe Julien IS the right choice but the fact that he picked him without looking around isn't a great testimony of Savard's manager's skills. I know of at least one other serious candidate, an assistant coach from Montreal who works for LA - only I forgot his name... Hot Stove league guys were predicting he'd be a head coach within a short time span.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 17, 2003 22:12:22 GMT -5
Mark Hardy?
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Post by seventeen on Jan 17, 2003 22:15:08 GMT -5
Therrien had to go. That part Savard got right. Savard DID NOT do a thourough process of evaluating his options... Nobody knows who might have express an interest... Nobody. Pierre McGuire often said that Savard doesn't do his homework and doesn't consider all his options when he makes a trade. I always felt that was BS from McGuire but now I am not so sure... Julien wasn't on my radar at all, but then I thought he was a 60 year old running out the string in Hamilton. Doc, Savard had at least one other choice earlier this week, Bob Hartley. I suspect money was an issue. Claude J is certainly cheaper and he may turn out as good in the long run. Hamilton was doing well (and yes, he had a talented roster, but that poses a challenge all on it's own...giving the right players enough ice time, keeping talented people happy etc.) so that's a good sign. Some of the basics I expect in a coach seem to be in place. I agree with other comments that ice time will be doled out in a fairer fashion under Julien than MT, who seemed to treat his line-up like an STD, trying one treatment after another. Savard could indeed have taken the route you suggested and it would be the wiser choice, unless he'd already done his due diligence on Julien and was convinced CJ was the real deal now and for the future. We don't know that, of course. He'll be judged (Savard) on how Julien turns out. If he's good, no one will care AS didn't shop around. But if he fails too......more nails in the AS coffin. I'm sort of optimistic, but that may be the happy glow of the MT release.
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Post by rocky on Jan 17, 2003 22:16:20 GMT -5
I know of at least one other serious candidate, an assistant coach from Montreal who works for LA - only I forgot his name... Hot Stove league guys were predicting he'd be a head coach within a short time span. Yo Paul, you must be starting to creep up there in years, memory is the first thing to go ;D ;D. I'm there now, bro
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Post by PTH on Jan 17, 2003 22:18:41 GMT -5
Ouch...
"«Je suis cependant à l'aise avec ma décision. De voir Claude ici me rassure. Je le connais très bien comme personne. Il a aussi obtenu du succès comme entraîneur à différents niveaux. Il était disponible et j'ai senti le besoin d'apporter un changement pour le bien de l'équipe.» "<br> In other words, a key factor was that Julien was available right now, while most NHL assistants are very much not available at this time of the year....
So AS wasn't simply looking for the best suitable guy, he went for the best available player, and didn't look very far.
And we're still stuck with the same players.....
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Post by PTH on Jan 17, 2003 22:21:17 GMT -5
Yo Paul, you must be starting to creep up there in years, memory is the first thing to go ;D ;D. I'm there now, bro LOL ! I'm essentially José Théodore's age... I just find that useless minutae escapes me, when I was studying my memory was much better.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 17, 2003 22:35:23 GMT -5
PTH. Marc is correct. It is Mark Hardy
Doc. HA has this crystal ball and I think he had a pretty good idea all this was about to happen. I have been sworn to secrecy however, which is easy, since, like Sargeant Schultz, "I know Nuttink!". He's hinting he knows more, but he's so coy and I don't have the 75¢ fee he's demanding. Pester him and maybe he'll succumb.
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Post by PTH on Jan 17, 2003 22:52:40 GMT -5
Maybe. I was just underlining the fact that there are a lot of coaches out there. And a lot of anglo-Quebecers and Ontarians with some French immersion from a few years ago would have been candidates too. If Mike McPhee, Brian Savage, Matt Higgins and Jason Ward all spoke decent French, imagine how many other people in the hockey world do. Plenty of options out there (not saying they are any good options though, but the list of possibilities has to be longer than what you had in mind...)
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 17, 2003 22:53:18 GMT -5
Doc. HA has this crystal ball and I think he had a pretty good idea all this was about to happen. I have been sworn to secrecy however, which is easy, since, like Sargeant Schultz, "I know Nuttink!". He's hinting he knows more, but he's so coy and I don't have the 75¢ fee he's demanding. Pester him and maybe he'll succumb. Hmm... This HA character is certainly causing a stir!
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Post by AH on Jan 17, 2003 22:56:08 GMT -5
I for one think that this was a well thought out move by Savard (even though I am not his biggest fan). He really did not want Bob Hartley as coach and wanted to can Therrien for at least 2 weeks. If he had fired Therrien while Hartley was available, the pressure on him would have been immense. So he waited until Bob Hartley got scooped up, and voila ... Claude Julien.
People seem to forget that Hartley and Therrien are buddies. The other would have never agreed to take over for the other (at least in BH's case). They coached together, they learned from each other. That in itself is reason enough to stay away from him.
I am willing to give Julien a chance ... if for nothing else than my own sanity ...
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 17, 2003 23:04:55 GMT -5
Also, Hartley is pretty much a Therrien clone when it comes to style of coaching...
There is a saying...never hire a coach similar in style to the coach you just fired.....
If you fire a fiery/emotional guy(like MT), better hire more of a system/X's and O's kind of guy!
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 17, 2003 23:13:14 GMT -5
How big a role did Boivin and Gillett play in today's events? Was Savard merely doing his master's bidding? Why did he look and sound like a man who had just scoffed a bad burrito during the press conference?
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 17, 2003 23:20:02 GMT -5
Also, Hartley is pretty much a Therrien clone when it comes to style of coaching... There is a saying...never hire a coach similar in style to the coach you just fired..... If you fire a fiery/emotional guy(like MT), better hire more of a system/X's and O's kind of guy! "Sometimes he gets really emotional, but he's a really good coach and he does the best for the team," said Ryder. "He gets the best out of every player. He makes everyone work their hardest." Ryder says the Olympiques always take Julien's emotional temperature before a practice, just to make sure it's OK to joke around. "I do have a hot point and I think my players can attest to that," said Julien. "They've seen me blow a fuse a couple of times." - www.slam.ca/2000WJHC/dec22_jul.html
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jan 17, 2003 23:29:40 GMT -5
Doc.
You are right about a few things.
Therrien had to go and quickly. (Much more quickly than Savard reacted).
Savard deserves much of the responsibility for the current situation, the weak defense, shots against, bad trades.............et al.
Julien is a good choice for interim coach until the best candidate available is selected. Plus if Julien does a great job and wins two series, he might hold on to the job. Julien comes from within the organization, he is a good soldier, he won't criticize Savard (who is in a precarious position), and if he has to step down it won't be a crushing blow to his career. Vignault and Therrien are toast with NHL GM's.
The fans are happy for a while just to be rid of Therrien.
Today was not Andre's worst day at work.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Jan 17, 2003 23:44:30 GMT -5
I for one think that this was a well thought out move by Savard (even though I am not his biggest fan). I also think it was reasonably well thought out, especially since this was not somethig Savard wanted to do mid-season. Waiting was no longer an option. He simply had no choice but to make a change. It would have been easy to appoint Guy Charron as an interim coach and hope for the best while putting off the search until the summer. He didn't do that and I think one of the main reasons he didn't go that route was that he really likes Julien and has a lot of confidence in his abilities. He's spent a good deal of time in Hamilton and he has a good sense of how the players there responded to him as a coach. I don't know how well he knows Julien beyond that but Julien was down in Hull with Me. Henry, who is also a well-respected hockey guy who is no stranger to Andre Savard. Julien is smart, hard-working, demanding and a good communicator. He should make a fine NHL coach. The only issue is how quickly he and Savard can make the transition to a younger lineup. If the team slides out of contention despite Julien's arrival, it will only hasten things as one or two guys will be moved at the deadline who otherwise would be here through the spring and into next season.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jan 17, 2003 23:45:26 GMT -5
Therrien wasn't a scapegoat by any means. He was just a coach who was in over his head in my opinion. The enivitable happened today that's all. And, it was better now than later.
Can Julien do a better job? Don't know.
It will be interesting to see how les sulkers come out tomorrow night against the Leafs; they should be pumped. It may also be interesting to see if Gilmour's back problem suddenly goes away.
Cheers.
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Post by UberCranky on Jan 17, 2003 23:47:34 GMT -5
Therrien wasn't a scapegoat by any means. He was just a coach who was in over his head in my opinion. The enivitable happened today that's all. And, it was better now than later. Can Julien do a better job? Don't know. It will be interesting to see how les sulkers come out tomorrow night against the Leafs; they should be pumped. It may also be interesting to see if Gilmour's back problem suddenly goes away. Cheers. Tsk, tsk..................
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 18, 2003 0:13:35 GMT -5
Not much available in cyberspace on our new head coach. Gleaned the following though: Claude Julien is in his second season with the Hamilton Bulldogs. Last year's team was very thin on talent and Julien almost squeezed them into the playoffs but lacked a reliable goaltender. This year the Dogs roared off to a great start but had a horrific February and people where starting to wonder if Julien had lost the room because the Dogs were dropping like a heavy stone down the Eastern Conference standings. Julien and troops turned it around with a solid finish to the regular season and stormed through Quebec and Hartford in the playoffs. Observers felt that he clearly out coached Quebec coach Eric Lavigne by rolling of four lines, which wore down the offensively talented Citadelles. - www.inthecrease.com/ahl/playoffs/r3_bri_ham.cfm*** For the third year in a row the Senators assistant coach in charge of defense and penalty kills has skipped town. First it was Mike Ramsay who went to Philadelphia, a year after that Mike Murphy left of the league head office and now Andre Savard departs for the Habs. Savard was a scout for many years in the Sens system and leaves Bytowne for a similar front office position with Montreal. Leading the list of replacements is Claude Julien who was recently interviewed for the head coaching position in Grand Rapids when Guy Charron left for Anaheim. Julien is head coach of the Hull Olympiques and was rumoured for the assistant's position the last two years when Ramsay and Murphy left. Charron would have been the natural choice to fill the vacancy. - www.hockeysfuture.com/article.php?sid=1064
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