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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 16, 2003 21:29:18 GMT -5
Vote!
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Post by Patty Roy on Jan 16, 2003 21:35:27 GMT -5
No.
I would personally love to see it happen, but i would still be suprised to see him fired. My guess is that a bad loss to the Leafs on HNIC would seal the deal.
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Post by Bobs_HABit on Jan 16, 2003 21:38:49 GMT -5
No way, I don't think Savard has the b@lls to do it!
Most of us know it should have happened over a year ago but he's AS guy. Two, yes TWO contract extensions in what about 12 months confirms that. Two wins in 12 games isn't enough for AS to drop him...at least in his mind.
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Post by Ryan on Jan 16, 2003 21:42:26 GMT -5
Of course not.
Why would AS do that? It makes too much sense.
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Post by JacquesInFL on Jan 16, 2003 21:58:26 GMT -5
No. But thanks, Marc, for at least injecting some carnival like games & polls into this dark night.
Burritozoic Era lives on for various, inexplicable reasons...26 months is mere blip on geological radar...brace yourself for worse.
Despite including MT's firing in my prayers, I estimate Therrien is not gone tomorrow because Savard probably has no Plan B at this point. I doubt André has fortitude to step behind bench himself like MacLean and Waddell recently did. If not "auto-golpe" then who is poised at this moment? Charron and Green?...please...
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Post by MC Habber on Jan 16, 2003 22:20:31 GMT -5
SOMEBODY will be fired in the next 3-4 days. MT and AS are the only logical candiates.
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Post by Montrealer on Jan 16, 2003 22:22:19 GMT -5
SOMEBODY will be fired in the next 3-4 days. MT and AS are the only logical candiates. I hope you're right but I told myself that a while ago and got upset at myself when I was wrong.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 16, 2003 22:23:39 GMT -5
Just for the sake of political correctness, I don't believe Therrien was Savard's choice. Didn't Houle fire AS and then face the noose himself, in that order. Of course, AS has give Mthead two extensions. Fool me once shame on you. Foll me twice, shame on me. Savard's become a dork.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 16, 2003 22:25:20 GMT -5
Just for the sake of political correctness, I don't believe Therrien was Savard's choice. Didn't Houle fire AS and then face the noose himself, in that order. Of course, AS has give Mthead two extensions. Fool me once shame on you. Foll me twice, shame on me. Savard's become a dork. You are correct. Come on AS...show some balls!
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Post by Montrealer on Jan 16, 2003 22:31:10 GMT -5
Just to bring everyone up to speed because I didn't know the details until Pat Hickey's column yesterday:
Houle fired Vigneault and hired Therrien, and invited him to his house. Then he was called away for the meeting with M. Boivin who fired him. Therrien apparently comforted Mme. Houle when she learned the news.
So........Savard firing Therrien right away would've been pretty unstable! He was stuck with him. Now he needs to clean house!
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Post by Yossarian on Jan 16, 2003 23:34:36 GMT -5
I didn't see the game tonight, thankfully, but did see the highlights (or carnage if you will). I voted for AS making a move tomorrow, but I wouldn't be surprised if he didn't. No matter what allegiance he holds to MT, how can he be in such denial? It has now reached a point where he owes his employer, himself, and more importantly, the fans, to make the only move left to make, because he is now accountable. There is no way, even a bottom-feeder of a team can look this lethargic, and get so grossly outshot and outplayed, without it pointing to complete disorganization in the coaching ranks. The Habs are no cup contender, but the talent is not that bad, I don't think!!! Losses to two of the worst teams in the league, followed by a shellacking by the Flyers, and worst of all, the Leafs on the Horizon. Arghhh!!!!
Life sucks!!!!
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Post by Ged on Jan 16, 2003 23:42:39 GMT -5
Not gonna happen. Savard won't can him till one night, the Habs give up 70 shots on goal and Savard realizes, the players have quit, the fans have quit, the taxi driver has quit, and George is looking over his shoulder asking, "Are shots on goal against really worth points Andre?"
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jan 16, 2003 23:43:52 GMT -5
Fire Therrien and get an interim coach to finish the year.
Next year the new GM can pick his own coach.
Savard is done. He has shown no understanding of the role of a GM by extending and keeping Therrien.
Therrien can find a job as a Jr. B coach with a really desperate team. Savard can go back to evaluating draft talent. Savard's trades have been poor at best and the Czerk, Audette, Rucinsky, Berezin revolving door has gone nowhere.
Montreal deserves better!
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Post by rocky on Jan 16, 2003 23:57:47 GMT -5
Just to be a nice guy I will say he's toast Friday. Like a dead end in the road, there is no other choice for Andre. Saturday night debut for a new coach vs Trawwana, super.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 16, 2003 23:57:51 GMT -5
I'm all for dumping M. Therrien, but I'd go a little longer with AS. Sometimes, things just take longer than you'd like and that trade you really want requires that your partner be just a little hungrier than they are right then. I understand that. What I don't understand, and is still part of the GM's job description, is to see if your coaching stuff is doing the job. Even without a lot of talent, a good coach can still have an impact. Success of a team or an organization requires, nay, demands that you reward the right people and that the wrong people face the consequences and are seen by others on the team to face the consequences. When you don't do this (for whatever reason), it destroys an organization. You lose good people and you get to keep the idiots because who else will take them? See, good people can go anywhere. They are in demand. They are hard to replace. Therrien is not one of these. But his enforced stay is turning off anyone in that organization that has any ability. Would I love to have a couple of beers with Koivu, Markov, Zednik and Juneau. What one could learn with loosened tongues.
Savard could do that, couldn't he?
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Post by Vichab on Jan 17, 2003 0:08:23 GMT -5
I posted last night after that horrendous display against the thrashers the following:
"In all likelihood we will lose against Philly and To. I know we've predicted MT's demise before but i really believe that two more losses and he is gone. Halleluja. At the end of the day AS will have no choice. If it is not MT's fault that this team is not performing then it must be the person who assembled the 'talent' at a pretty good price to GG. It's not as if we can blamed the last 3-4 weeks on injuries or bad goaltending. But as has been pointed out many times on this board - it is very easy to look at all these games and find major flaws in coaching decisions from whose dressing, to line formations, to whose on the ice in key situations. AS better start looking for a scapegoat and he doesn't have to look too far. This team is underachieving and if AS doesn't right the ship soon the playoffs will be gone. Scapegoat isn't a fair term as it suggests that MT is not responsible but i don't care how AS comes to the decision - JUST DO IT!!
If you were guaranteed that MT would be gone if we lose the next two games how many of you would , god forbid, root for the Flyers and Leafs. Boy that's a hard pill to swallow but if it brings on a cure... Unfortunately I can't guarantee that AS will do the wise thing as he hasn't up to now with MT but I believe the hour is getting late. Guarantee or not I cannot bring myself to root for those teams. The losses just won't be as hard to take if it means MT will be gone."
I stand by this. My hope is that we only have to hold our nose for one more game. I don't like losing to the leafs but I will have some comfort believing that MT will be gone with a poor showing. there is absolutely no reason to keep MT. all the talking heads can't get over how badly out shot we are every game including against the worst teams in the league. we have recently lost to the worst teams in the league. We have one of the worst PP and PKs in the league. We have d men who couldn't play on any team in the league and show why each and every time out. Yet these pilons are getting more ice time then our young studs who are our future. HELLO. Come on AS do the obvious thing. I disagree that AS needs balls to pull the trigger. This is such an obvious long over due move that no one is going to say "what a surprise". the only surprise is that MT has held on this long. Perhaps a bigger surprise is that AS has compromised his own position by waiting this long. what bothers me the most is this whole MT saga illustrates how far this franchise has sunk. Less then 10 years ago MT would have been gone along time ago as this would have been unacceptable. AS may not be the savior afterall. Better than houle but perhaps not good enough.
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Post by habwest on Jan 17, 2003 1:51:45 GMT -5
Well, I think that AS sees what's going on. I also think that he's dealing with the realities of the situation. Firing MT after last season wouldn't have been all that easy. MT gets a team missing Koivu into the playoffs and beats the Bruins in a huge upset. I wonder how the media would have reacted to his axing, not to mention some in the organizaion itself, eg Boivin, GG. Savard is not operating in a vacum and I think that it's important to remember that. It's always easy for an outsider to say "do this or that" but they don't know the full picture of what's going on, the realities, the pressures. And, given his success, maybe even AS thought that MT deserved another shot. Now things are not going well. Some of it is of AS' making- Czerkawski- and MT has failed to deliver (so far) like he somehow always did before. The danger, as I see it, is that AS will lose perspective by becoming too close to the situation and that his actions to date (eg acquiring Czerk, extending MT) and the clamour going on around him will prevent him from seeing what is best for the team in the long run. That might mean firing MT soon or letting things go longer, depends on what you're aiming for and what the particulars of the situation are. He still needs a replacement for MT if he goes and I don't think that anybody on this staff is ready to replace him. Bring up the minor league coach because he's the only guy available? Well that's already been tried with MT and if one thing is for sure it's that when AS picks his next coach he wants to get a guy that he's pretty sure of, that he's had time to think about about what the team really needs not only for this season but for the next few years and has had an opportunity to look at a variety of candidates which might not be available now. (Well at least that's what I would do because my job would probably be riding on the next guy). I don't think that you accomplish this by just firing MT and then....what next? AS for changing players,well, AS has already tried that with less than great success. I'm not saying that no moves should be made. I am saying that they should be well considered as regards the long term health of the club. I am also saying that I doubt such would be the case if AS started making changes willy nilly just for the sake of change. Mistakes have been made, let's not make more. I hope he puts some distance between himself and the situation and then takes whatever action he thinks is in the long term best interests of the Habs. Anyway, that's where I'm coming from, for what it's worth. Cheers.
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Post by PTH on Jan 17, 2003 2:07:59 GMT -5
I'm all for dumping M. Therrien, but I'd go a little longer with AS. Sometimes, things just take longer than you'd like and that trade you really want requires that your partner be just a little hungrier than they are right then.... Agreed. AS has been competent enough, and IMO shouldn't be canned. However, I think he hesitates to dump MT, knowing that he's on the firing line next if things don't work out with a new coach. Still, with experience, Houle almost became a decent GM, I figure AS is starting with way more cards in his deck and should be able to do OK.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 17, 2003 2:08:27 GMT -5
HW, I find it disconcerting that a perfectly good choice, (Hartley) became available at an opportune time, and nothing happened. I can only assume it had something to do with money, since I read that Hartley was earning 1.7MM with Colorado and would probably expect something similar, if not exactly the same, with a team in a higher tax jurisdiction. $1.7MM is probably more than AS makes, so that would be a non-starter, though it should not have been. Hartley gets the team into the playoffs, and the extra cost over our bargain basement Therrien would be well worth it. Then AS can go to GG and say, "I deserve to get paid more than the coach, I have more responsibility" and it would happen. Now the need is greater and actual, potential replacements are not visible. It is very true, however, that we don't know what's going on up there. If we did we'd either be more understanding or perhaps even angrier.
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Post by habwest on Jan 17, 2003 3:44:28 GMT -5
Yea Seventeen, frustrating isn't it. That's why I'm trying not to get too involved in whether the club makes the playoffs this year. I figure if I do that I'll just get bent way out of shape and I don't need the aggrivation. Hartley might have been the answer; personally I don't know enough about him to have an opinion. He won the Cup so you'd figure he had to be good but then the Avs, with much better players than the Habs, weren't doing much better than Montreal this season so....? He also seemed to be getting a fair amount of negative criticism from Colorado fans etc. Whether it was an ego thing with AS or something else we'll probably never really know. Whatever, it's old news now so no point in fusing about it is my reaction. You develop these self protection mechanisms by the time you get older. Either that or my brain cells are dying off faster than they should be. Cheers.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 17, 2003 8:44:12 GMT -5
No way does AS get canned now. Maybe at the end of the season if it turns out to be an utter disaster but even then AS can tell GG ''wait a little...the plan is only starting to come to fruitition, be patient George''...
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Post by TheHabsfan on Jan 17, 2003 9:21:42 GMT -5
I agree with probably everyone on this board when I say that I wish that MT would get axed today. But, I don't think it will happen. I agree with someone's comment that a blowout against the hated Laffs will be the straw that breaks AS's back. As far as AS is concerned, I agree with Seventeen, we need to keep him there a while longer. First of all, his draft picks have been great and he has mentionned that his plan was to build a contender through the draft. Second, pretty much all the trades he has made so far were considered pretty good at the time by the majority. My take on this is that you take risks, sometimes they work, sometimes they don't...that's hockey management. Third, by getting fired himself because he didn't fire MT at the right time is a little much, I think. As a finish to this post, I will give my opinion on what I think should be done with the Habs structure...this is how I see it as the perfect arrangement: 1. Replace Dorion with AS. Andre has shown that he is excellent in this area. 2. Replace AS with Gainey because he is competent and I like the guy 3. Replace MT with a coach with experience. Never mind those rookie coaches. I like the idea of player coaches..guys who have been through it all and know what it takes to win. Robinson comes to mind. cheers,
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 17, 2003 9:27:00 GMT -5
I think AS would be a better GM if he didn't have so much damn money to spend.
If he only had 35 million to spend, he would have to use his creativity more and not go out and get garbage floaters.
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Post by Lord Stanley on Jan 17, 2003 9:32:53 GMT -5
Want to know what's so cool to do these days guys... Go ON RDS.CA and wait for them to announce a press conference.. I am killing my mouse by clicking on refresh.... Join me up on my journey to Douglas Hospital...
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 17, 2003 10:45:17 GMT -5
IT'S OFFICIAL!
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Post by TheHabsfan on Jan 17, 2003 11:02:09 GMT -5
Is it too late to change my answer?
;D
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Post by rocky on Jan 17, 2003 11:03:13 GMT -5
Just to be a nice guy I will say he's toast Friday. Like a dead end in the road, there is no other choice for Andre. Saturday night debut for a new coach vs Trawwana, super. And the winner is , me, excuse me while I gloat a bit. j/k it sure was gonna happen soon
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