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Post by GARB08 on Jan 8, 2003 17:36:40 GMT -5
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 8, 2003 17:39:34 GMT -5
For a second there I thought it saw ''AS and MT fired'' My heart skipped a beat
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 8, 2003 20:23:40 GMT -5
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 8, 2003 21:19:57 GMT -5
"... Savard had to be physically restrained from going into the officials' dressing room, according to security officials at the Continental Airlines Arena... " Hello-oh ?!! Anger management therapy in order... WTF... Our General Manager wants to physically attack a referee... Geezus we look like freaks... Even a clown like Bobby Clark doesn't do such things... Whatever happenned to the most classy organization of pro-sports... What must Jean Beliveau think right now... I am not too proud to be a HABS fans these days... I sincerely hope that Boivin/Gillett don't let this go unnotice: Savard should make public excuses to Kerry Fraser, to the NHL, to the HABS organization and to the fans for the way he behaved. Nothing less is acceptable in my book.
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Post by UberCranky on Jan 8, 2003 21:27:51 GMT -5
"Why can't I get a job at McDonalds? I can cook, wash paper plates, and I was first in my class with "ya like fries with ya burga?" I even offered to coach the janitorial staff and put in a new "system".
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 8, 2003 21:33:43 GMT -5
"... Savard had to be physically restrained from going into the officials' dressing room, according to security officials at the Continental Airlines Arena... " Hello-oh ?!! Anger management therapy in order... WTF... Our General Manager wants to physically attack a referee... Geezus we look like freaks... Even a clown like Bobby Clark doesn't do such things... Whatever happenned to the most classy organization of pro-sports... What must Jean Beliveau think right now... I am not too proud to be a HABS fans these days... I sincerely hope that Boivin/Gillett don't let this go unnotice: Savard should make public excuses to Kerry Fraser, to the NHL, to the HABS organization and to the fans for the way he behaved. Nothing less is acceptable in my book. and you were the one complaining about lack of emotion before? you can't have it both ways Doc. If Savard doesn't do that, everybody bashes the Habs for not doing anything about it.. The whole freakin' NHL knows the Habs were robbed last night. Quinn would have done something similar, Brian Burke would have done similar and a bunch of other GM's would have freaked out. The NHL is so tight you just can't accept getting robbed like that
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 8, 2003 21:57:47 GMT -5
I love it. Savard with a TKO over Fraser in the second round. Only his hair prevents Fraser from suffering a KO in the first round. If it were Therrien I don't think Kerry would last 30 seconds. Now that's entertainment!
Good on Savard. Robbery should never be tolerated with a shrug. Looks good on Bettman's National Hula-hoop League.
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Post by MC Habber on Jan 8, 2003 22:11:59 GMT -5
I really think fining them is rediculous unless the NHL addresses the Fraser problem. He should be fired, or, at the very least, banned from ever refereeing another habs game. If he was biased agianst Montreal before, imagine what he'll be like now.
As for Tim Peel, I don't understand why he didn't do anything on either goal. He has just as much authority as Fraser.
Oh well, maybe Therrien will be suspended, hopefully for a long time.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 8, 2003 22:12:54 GMT -5
and you were the one complaining about lack of emotion before? you can't have it both ways Doc. If Savard doesn't do that, everybody bashes the Habs for not doing anything about it.. The whole freakin' NHL knows the Habs were robbed last night. Quinn would have done something similar, Brian Burke would have done similar and a bunch of other GM's would have freaked out. The NHL is so tight you just can't accept getting robbed like that Marc, we want emotion from the players during the play... They can't even get that... There is absolutely no relation whatsoever between trying to get the HABS to play like a team and our GM trying to physically assault a ref... Zero. You think what Savard did was inspirational? How much credibility do you think he gained to the players and other GMs and NHL officials? Do you think Scotty Bowman would ever want to work for a guy that pulls freak shows like that? He dropped lower then Therrien did. LOWER THEN THERRIEN. I don't care what Burke or Quinn might do IF they were in that same situation. Bad calls go every which way every darn night in the NHL and GM don't go trying to assault officials...
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 8, 2003 22:25:27 GMT -5
You think what Savard did was inspirational? How much credibility do you think he gained to the players and other GMs and NHL officials? Obviously Savard was reacting on emotion more than anything. He just freaked out. Lost it, went nuts, use every word you can use... But, I am pretty sure ALOT of people would have done what he did. ALOT. Bad calls happen in the NHL, but rarely are they that bad and rarely do they always happen with the same ref who you can argue has screwed the Habs THREE times in 8 months. edit: Blob McKenzie said on TV that GG is apparently starting to get pissed at this ''anti-hab'' thing and behind the scenes is asking some questions It's getting ugly.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 8, 2003 22:35:34 GMT -5
Sure they were bad calls. And I believe they had to be angry. Heck, Therrien was yelling and shut the door a few times... That was ok. He's the coach, it's his show in a way.
But the GM comes down and wants to assault a ref... The opposing coach has to calm him down... Security has to refrain him from breaking into the ref room...
Nooooo way.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Jan 8, 2003 22:47:38 GMT -5
I'm with Doc on this one.
I think it's one thing for the Coach to launch some bombs at a ref and take the fine. That's cool. He's down at ice level and he's involved in the game, so in certain circumstances it's understandable that he'll lose his cool. The GM should then back him up, especially in a case like last night. But the GM should not be down in the hallway yelling at people and spitting invective, much less acting like he's about to assault an official. It just looks bush league. It is bush league, imo. And I agree with Doc that it doesn't advance any valuable objective. I don't think the players respond to this stuff from the GM and I don't think it helps the GM's profile around the league. By definition, it doesn't help the team's profile around the league, either. It tends to undermine all these important relationships, whaterver state they happen to be in at the time. That's my feeling, anyway.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 8, 2003 23:55:26 GMT -5
from RDS:
Savard et Therrien devront s'expliquer Le vice-président exécutif de la Ligue nationale de hockey, Colin Campbell, rencontrera André Savard et Michel Therrien afin que ces derniers s'expliquent sur les événements qui ont marqué la fin de la partie de mardi contre les Devils du New Jersey. Une suspension demeure dans le domaine du possible, mais il est beaucoup plus logique de penser que les deux protagonistes seront mis à l'amende pour avoir dit leur façon de penser à l'arbitre Kerry Fraser.
Rappelons que l'arbitre à la coupe de cheveux légendaire a refusé un but à Mike Ribeiro, prétextant que ce dernier avait nui au travail de Martin Brodeur. Pourtant, à mi-chemin en troisième période, Joe Nieuwendyk marquait le but de la victoire après que Jeff Friesen soit entré en collision avec Jeff Hackett.
L'entraîneur et le dg du Canadien ont vertement et longuement enguirlandé Fraser dès le match terminé.
Après la partie, Hackett a refusé de commenter la situation, mais Martin Brodeur a pour sa part avoué qu'il aurait été très contrarié s'il avait été à la place du portier du Tricolore.
--------
The least the NHL can do is NEVER schedule Fraser for a Habs game. Next game we may have a riot! lol
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Post by UberCranky on Jan 9, 2003 1:00:57 GMT -5
I am not a lawyer but here is my opinion.
Unless trhere is a contractual agreement prohibiting it, the involvement from an owner and the threat of legal action can have a chilling effect in the NHL. Particularly if the action is brought is brought in a US court.
Clearly, the NHL is ignoring the Hab’s management and considers Savard and company as inconsequential. On the other hand, if GG sets Sue, Grab and Run against Buttman’s NHL and Fraser, even if he dos not win, he will scare the living hell out of them.
GG argument would be that the NHL is aware that a referee is incompetent and/or biased against the Hab’s. If GG can present evidence and establish bias in last years playoffs, if GG can prove that the league apologized to Therrien for Frasers bad call, if the league scheduled further games for a referee even though the NHL knew that said referee has a dislike/bias and caused further and deliberate losses then GG will have a HELL of a lawsuit against them. Into the multi tens of millions, to speak nothing of the punitive award.
Even if GG does not take it all the way to a lawsuit, he could go in front of a judge and seek an injection against Fraser refereeing a Hab’s game. This would also create massive shock waves in the old boys club. GG can establish gavel fear in the old boys network.
When Thorton makes statement like “Cambell and I thought that it was a dive”. Then it speaks volumes about where the “respect” bar is set at.
A "do nothing" approach is the wrong approach in my opinion. GG either starts using some muscle or the league will wipe their *ss with the Hab’s and laugh at us with impunity.
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Post by Lord Stanley on Jan 9, 2003 9:01:45 GMT -5
But the GM comes down and wants to assault a ref... The opposing coach has to calm him down... Security has to refrain him from breaking into the ref room... Nooooo way. I don't know...Being an emotional guy myself, I think I would've done the same thing. Don't forget here that Savard is really stressed. This team isn't performing like it should, he might think that his jos is on the line. His players don't seem to care that much about the "Sainte Flanelle" anymore. Nothing goes as planned for the guy and then...The fraser thing comes in and 2 more points are out of his hands.. If your jobs were on the line like that what would you do?
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Post by Montrealer on Jan 9, 2003 9:32:47 GMT -5
I don't know...Being an emotional guy myself, I think I would've done the same thing. If your jobs were on the line like that what would you do? Yeah, you can't go and blame Savard for freaking out, he's apparently one of the nicest gentlemen as any that have held a NHL GM job (at least according to the local media) and everyone is allowed to freak sometimes. I love the fact he came down to ice level with the rulebook, I was hoping he was going to throw it at Fraser. It would have been the closest Fraser has come to the rulebook in ten years.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 9, 2003 10:01:42 GMT -5
The diffenece between the NHL and the NFL is that the NFL is a true sports league while the NHL is a prentender. After the fiasco between the giants and the 49ers this week end, the nfl announced that the positioning of the officials would be changed to allow them to see the field better during field goal attempts etc. Has the NHL done anything to try and improve the officiating, fat chance. Bettman and his cronies stick their head in the sand and ask for $75 million expansion fees. What a joke.
Savard and Therrien should not have gone bananas, but I can understand them bursting a blood vessel over it, Fraser cost them the game. Why do people get fined for losing their tempers, but when a ref screws up not once but twice in a game he doesn't even get a reprimand!!
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 9, 2003 10:04:30 GMT -5
welcome aboard Montrealer
and good point my Habit. That is a difference between the NHL/NFL
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Post by FormerLurker on Jan 9, 2003 10:27:03 GMT -5
Doc, you're leaping to conclusions. It has never been reported that Savard tried to physically assault Fraser. He had to be physically restrained from entering the ref's changing room, sure, but all he would have done is launch a verbal assault had he not been restrained.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jan 9, 2003 11:39:38 GMT -5
It would have been a great fight. Savard would send out Therrien to punch Fraser in the mouth. Therrien would hit the linesman instead of Fraser by mistake. Fraser would have missed the whole altercation and assessed a bench minor to Savard for unsportsmanlike conduct. Bettman would put a another mesh curtain between the officials room and the coaches. Gillet would ask if this is normal in hockey? Cherry would say tough hockey is not for cry babies and the Hab's problem is not Fraser. Surprisingly Cherry would be right. Fraser did not cause the Hab's to come out of the road trip with a total of three points. ;D
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 9, 2003 12:57:40 GMT -5
BTW I saw McKenzie's little piece on TSN..
And to clarify GG is starting to wonder if there is a ''anti-hab'' sentiment among refs and the league in general but especially with Kerry Fraser
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Post by HFTO on Jan 9, 2003 16:42:32 GMT -5
I can see the situation both ways one thing for sure Savard it obviously feeling some heat so something maybe brewing.For him to react like this may look bushleague but maybe just maybe his reaction ill have him looking to make this team better and soon! Everyone can accept bad calls but Fraser really blew it this time.I will be interested to see if the NHL makes any acknoledgement that Fraser did goof! Somehow I doubt it and we'll be left with the same old rehtoric! HFTO
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 9, 2003 16:47:15 GMT -5
Official:
heard it on Team 990
AS gets fined 50 K
MT gets fined 25 K
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Post by Bobs_HABit on Jan 9, 2003 19:45:35 GMT -5
I agree with Doc and JV.
The one thing I can't get out of my head is that AS gets so upset over the potential loss of two points (and really if we're up 3-1 does anyone think we hold the lead through the 3rd) and meanwhile he's sat back and watched that idiot Coach which, he is now tied to at the hip, cost us points every week.
Nice work AS.
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Post by Vinna on Jan 9, 2003 21:27:52 GMT -5
Okay, I did'nt like the incident. It looked bush league. HOWEVER, It is about time that someone on this team showed a little emotion. To bad it had to be the brain trust (i know, I know) of the orginization. Outside of Saku And Zed, NOBODY on this team plays with much in the way of heart. At least someone in this orginization has some sack.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 9, 2003 22:35:19 GMT -5
One way the NHL could send a message to its officials that gross errors of judgement will not be accepted, is to simply omit Fraser's name from the list of officials who will do the playoffs. No ranting or raving, jumping up and down or turning blue. Just an early exit from the playoffs (ironic eh?) and fewer pay cheques. Too bad it will never happen.
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Post by Vichab on Jan 10, 2003 1:43:42 GMT -5
I'm not surprised by the fines as the league has to protect it's image and protect its refs from abuse, particularly physical. However i do think that the league would do itself a favour by acknowledging that Fraser messed up and that they were going to address that. If the league did that then it would be saying what many have said on this board, that regardless of how bad a call may be it does not excuse the sort of conduct displayed by AS. The way it is left now, we all have the sense that the league is Big Brother, or God as some have said, and they and their refs are always right and no one should criticize. That is not a healthy situation and does not lead to constructive dialogue resulting in an improved league.
I was watching the game in a sports bar in Maui. i did not see the first period so was not aware of the disallowed goal. when NJ scored after Hack was clocked I was in disbelief that it was allowed to stand and boy was i mad. But when i remembered fraser was reffing it all made sense. Of interest is that there were a number of other people watching the game who were not habs fans (Colorado and edmonton) and each of them could not believe the call and told me that we were "robbed". Interesting that they used that word. I wont divulge their identities as no doubt the league might fine them. I tell you all this for a couple of reasons; 1) If i had known about the first disallowed goal i would have gone ballistic. I don't condone what AS did but i understand it and it may very well help the team. Fraser will bend over backwards to help us in the next game. I have no doubt he will ultimately screw us but the next game he refs i guarantee 2 points. Also i believe the team will respond well to AS's outburst. 2) Any hockey fan watching that game knows we were hosed and something had to be done. I say good on AS.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 10, 2003 10:43:56 GMT -5
you were/are in Hawaii?
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Post by Vichab on Jan 10, 2003 23:36:41 GMT -5
I WAS in Maui. It was great except that trying to get hockey hi lites was not easy. It was nerve racking following Habs games by watching the CNN ticker. Marc I was longing for your play by play posts which I follow when I can't get the game on TV here. The worst/best experience was was watching the ticker and they had the final score 5-4 ( i believe it was the Edm. game) so i was pretty bummed. Then when i checked ESPN later they indicated it was a final in OT. I celebrated the point that I thought we did not have. It's good to be home as I now know more about college basketball than can be healthy for any Canadian.
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