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Post by TheHabsfan on Jan 6, 2003 8:30:30 GMT -5
Brisebois has been directly responsible for 3 goals in the last 3 games. He blew a tire in the first two and made a nice pass to Marchant in overtime for the game winner score by Ryan Smyth. Is it possible that Markov's emergence is putting some pressure on him to be better? This pressure is making him nervous and he is making bad decisions? Brisebois has be the "#1" defenseman on this team for the past number of years. Losing his spot is surely a shot to his ego. Is he hurt? If he is, he should sit out. He isn't helping the team right now. If anything, he is costing us some games.
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Post by UberCranky on Jan 6, 2003 9:01:56 GMT -5
If a rookie made blunders like that, they would be shipped to the Siberian Junior team.
Goes to show you how fair this organization is.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Jan 6, 2003 10:14:37 GMT -5
It's obvious that Breezer is getting pressure to generate offense and so he takes more "chances". Everytime this has happen, Brisebois ended up looking bad. Then again when you #2 dmen is Traverse, you can bet that your #1 guy won't be looking good every game.
As HABWEST was saying, we need to grab a hold of ourseleves. Everytime a player gets in a slump we're all over him like gangbusters. Nobody ever said that Brisebois was Blake, Pronger or Lidstrom and thankfully he isn't paid like any of 'hem either.
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Post by TheHabsfan on Jan 6, 2003 10:31:45 GMT -5
It's obvious that Breezer is getting pressure to generate offense and so he takes more "chances". Everytime this has happen, Brisebois ended up looking bad. I agree with you that he is probably under pressure to produce offensively. But if you look at this mistakes, they aren't because he is pinching. All the mistakes were made in the defensive zone. He falls skating backwards and makes a stupid cross ice pass in our zone. A HUGE no-no which is taught to teams playing pee-wee. If he were caught pinching in the offensive zone, I would be the first guy to say that he is trying to get offense and I would definitely give him a break. Same goes for Hainsey...He is trying to play his game, which is offense. But brutal defensive zone plays by our D are killing us right now, and Breezy has cost us the last three games.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 6, 2003 10:46:27 GMT -5
I think he is injured
No way does a healthy guy fall so many times and looks that bad
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Post by JacquesInFL on Jan 6, 2003 12:20:25 GMT -5
I think he has a painful ankle problem right now.
Also, the season is wearing some guys down (JJ is another relatively small man taking on a major physical role each night). Remember that with the crackdown on obstruction, forecheckers (and many teams have the bodies and commitment to pursue this strategy) are hitting Brisebois more this season. It all adds up.
And you're absolutely correct about breakdowns happening when PB takes offensive risks. No doubt a competent, physical d-man (sort of like Quintal when he had a little more mobility) would help this floundering d-corps (is there a chance Souray can return this spring?).
Brisebois has played 899 minutes this season (leads the club) and, until recently, I think he was playing very well. In my estimation, he is not even close to being one of the organisation's non or under-performing assets.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 6, 2003 12:23:52 GMT -5
It's time.
For the Habs to give Markov the major ice time
and let Brisebois play a little less...20 minutes per game instead of 22 or 23 or 24 minutes per game
Markov would be better. He would play with even more confidence IMO.
and Brisebois would be better because he would be fresher
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 6, 2003 16:02:43 GMT -5
Being a company man making 4 million and wearing an "A" can make it hard for a guy to accept that he's not the best d-man on the club. Markov *is* the number one d-man on the Habs.
Perhaps Brisebois is falling down trying to catch up?
Perhaps he is injured.
Perhaps not having Dykhuis (the guy who led the team in +/- the previous 2 seasons; not this year's sad-sack model), with his superior skating ability, covering up for him as was the case last year has merely exposed Brisebois' true level of competency.
Brisebois needs someone to cover his ass and/or sharpen both his skates and decsion-making for him. He was playing OK at the beginning of the season, before Dykhuis went into the doghouse.
Too bad Seldom Seen Sheldon can't come out to play with Mr. B. I think they'd make a good number 2 pairing behind Markov-Rivet. Quintal could then continue mentoring Hainsey back to Hamilton in earnest.
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Post by Willie Dog on Jan 6, 2003 16:20:21 GMT -5
I can't bear to watch a game when he's on the ice. At least with the other bozos we have on defence they don't get 4 mill a year. I understand he logs a lot of ice time but he should think of the team. If he tired or hurt say something, don't just keep playing.
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Post by PTH on Jan 6, 2003 16:59:28 GMT -5
It's obvious that Breezer is getting pressure to generate offense and so he takes more "chances". Everytime this has happen, Brisebois ended up looking bad. Then again when you #2 dmen is Traverse, you can bet that your #1 guy won't be looking good every game. As HABWEST was saying, we need to grab a hold of ourseleves. Everytime a player gets in a slump we're all over him like gangbusters. Nobody ever said that Brisebois was Blake, Pronger or Lidstrom and thankfully he isn't paid like any of 'hem either. Agred. Also, Brisebois is clearly hurt, the RDS guys were basically saying so saturday night. As to the people who'd like him to sit.... would we really be better off with Dykhuis or Bouillon playing those minutes ?
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Post by PTH on Jan 6, 2003 17:04:03 GMT -5
Perhaps not having Dykhuis (the guy who led the team in +/- the previous 2 seasons; not this year's sad-sack model), with his superior skating ability, covering up for him as was the case last year has merely exposed Brisebois' true level of competency. Brisebois needs someone to cover his ass and/or sharpen both his skates and decsion-making for him. He was playing OK at the beginning of the season, before Dykhuis went into the doghouse. Why are people reacting so strongly ? Brisebois has always had some rough stretches, especially when he badly wants the team to get out of a slump, he tries to do too much. As to Dykhuis - Brisebois has made every single one of his partners on D (Manson, Popovic, Weinrich, just about anyonr he's been paired with - even Traverse these days) look like they really belong, so let's not think Patrice needs someone to cover for him - more often than not he's the guy covering up for someone else.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 6, 2003 17:33:55 GMT -5
Why are people reacting so strongly ? Brisebois has always had some rough stretches, especially when he badly wants the team to get out of a slump, he tries to do too much. As to Dykhuis - Brisebois has made every single one of his partners on D (Manson, Popovic, Weinrich, just about anyonr he's been paired with - even Traverse these days) look like they really belong, so let's not think Patrice needs someone to cover for him - more often than not he's the guy covering up for someone else. Brisebois doesn't have mere "rough stretches", he can be mind-numbingly brutal for games at a time. He costs his team momentum, and games. Far too regularly, to my liking, for the second highest paid guy on the team. If at this point in his career he does not realize what his limitations are, and the price the team pays when he tries to play beyond them... I don't believe you meant to say "Brisebois has made every single one of his partners on D look like they really belong", but I agree 100%. He does have the unfortunate ability of too often making his partner look like an all-star by comparison. OK, that's a bit too rough. Brisebois is often out of position and forces his partner to cover for him. He also has an annoying habit of lazily skating back from up ice to assume his responsibilities (almost as if he expects, or hopes, that someone else will take on the burden - even when he's closest to the play). He shoves occasionally. It was the oddest thing to see him actually bodycheck earlier in the season - guess he felt that behaviour was out of character and so he stopped. He's a good number three or four d-man. Markov presently outclasses him in all facets of the game. Patrice's lunch money belongs to Andrei.
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Post by habwest on Jan 6, 2003 18:06:31 GMT -5
To follow up Marc's point, Markov already is getting major minutes. He's usually pretty close to Breezer. PTH has a point about who would replace him but one wonders if Brisebois would benefit from a "rest day" every now and then. Hainsey seemed to do OK over on the right, maybe they could put him in for Breezer every now and then.
Just a thought.
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Post by Ged on Jan 6, 2003 22:25:51 GMT -5
Defending the indefensible. What we've seen the last few games is exactly what I've seen since he's broken into the league. In short, he's not a very good hockey player. Actually, he's a terrible hockey player. What, you don't think Markov is playing hurt, or anybody else? Sure they are. We've seen numerous guys getting pucks to the ankles etc. but do any of them make totally irrational plays night after night. The answer is no. To defend a guy because he's falling down because he may have an ankle injury is one thing. But, exactly what does that have to do with cross ice passes to the invisible man?
Rivet is also hurt. Everyone knows that. But he soldiers on, playing through his pain, and leading by example. He has more shots than Brisebois does. How does this happen. Brisebois is out there for every single PP, is supposedly the QB, and Rivet has more shots!!! Something terribly wrong with this picture.
Against Vancouver, in the dying minutes, Brisebois makes a rush into the Vancouver zone, drops it to Koivu, and leaves him nothing. The puck is stolen, and a 3 on zip is the result. If you have the tape watch it again. Koivu snaps his head around as if to say, "What in the Sweet Jes*s are you doing?" I think Patrice has some seriously fed up teammates on this team, that are just simply sick of this side show. Sick of seeing an abomination.
What are they seeing? A way below average defenceman, with limited offensive skills, no defensive skills, no attitude, and a whopping 4 million dollar paycheck. Way to go Andre. Really nice move. But, here is the one thing I've learned all these years being a die hard Habs fan. No matter what Brisebois does, there will always be someone there to say "Ah, he hit a rut in the ice, big deal". "Well, he's obviously playing hurt". "Who could we possibly play in his place, who would eat up the minutes?" It's called defending the indefensible.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 6, 2003 22:31:19 GMT -5
Why are people reacting so strongly ? Value. Bouillon and any number of other $400K players would not cause this much ire. At $4MM a year, we expect more. And deserve more. If he's hurt, yes, sit. Bring up Bouillon. He won't hurt us as much. He's more physical, a better skater, an improvement over an injured PB. Heck, bring up Komi for a couple of weeks to get a taste. Lots of options to giving up 2 goals a game.
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Post by PTH on Jan 6, 2003 23:04:36 GMT -5
Value. Bouillon and any number of other $400K players would not cause this much ire. At $4MM a year, we expect more. And deserve more. If he's hurt, yes, sit. Bring up Bouillon. He won't hurt us as much. He's more physical, a better skater, an improvement over an injured PB. Heck, bring up Komi for a couple of weeks to get a taste. Lots of options to giving up 2 goals a game. Watch Bouillon play 25+ minutes a game, get trampled by large forwards, or watch Komisarek simply get swamped out there, and suddenly things will seem very different. We are already short NHL defensemen, we can't take one out - though I'm the first to hope that he gets less ice time until he heals. That foot or ankle of his has to be in awful shape for him to fall so easily.
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Post by Ged on Jan 6, 2003 23:54:06 GMT -5
Well, I simply have to reply to that. First of all, Bouillon will hit people. He wants to play. He doesn't give a sh*t about his paycheck. Every shift, even though he may be overmatched, he will give it his all. He may not be NHL caliber, but , really, obviously, is Patrice Brisebois?
Please tell me, what other NHL G.M. would pay 4 million dollars a year for what he brings to this team?
Please tell me, what other NHL G.M. would pay 2 million dollars a year for what he would bring to any team?
Hurt or not, the guy sucks, and his teammates know it, I can guarantee you that. Would you rather watch Komi, Hainsey, Bouillon, Jarventie making these mistakes night after night, as long as they are taking something away from their mistakes. Learning. Hey, I know I would. I've been watching the same sad song forever, and I am sick of it. He obviously is past the stage of learning, wouldn't you agree? Like Therrien, he is a cancer on this team. They are consistently losing because of him. Granted, he's not the only one, but he has been here forever, should know how to lead by example. Even if he's not a rah-rah type of guy, he has to bring something to the table. Exactly what is he bringing to the table? Please, tell me. I've been wrapped in this conondrum forever.
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Post by seventeen on Jan 7, 2003 0:39:27 GMT -5
Watch Bouillon play 25+ minutes a game, get trampled by large forwards, or watch Komisarek simply get swamped out there, and suddenly things will seem very different. We are already short NHL defensemen, we can't take one out - though I'm the first to hope that he gets less ice time until he heals. That foot or ankle of his has to be in awful shape for him to fall so easily. I'm not advocating a long term solution, but the way Bouillon played in the past is superior to Brisebois' recent play. I doubt we'd want to give him 25+ minutes, but 18? Agree, though, that we have 2 NHL d-men right now, Markov and Hainsey. But heck, throw in a different coach, different system and maybe these guys are better than they're showing.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jan 7, 2003 16:52:35 GMT -5
Is Breezeby hurt? We're talking like it's the first time that he's been beaten badly. Two years ago he was beaten like a wet blanket on a nightly basis. It's not a surprise when he looks like a fire-hydrant with dogs running around it.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 7, 2003 17:31:54 GMT -5
New skates are making him pass poorly.
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Post by PTH on Jan 7, 2003 19:11:49 GMT -5
Would you rather watch Komi, Hainsey, Bouillon, Jarventie making these mistakes night after night, as long as they are taking something away from their mistakes. Learning. Hey, I know I would. I've been watching the same sad song forever, and I am sick of it. He obviously is past the stage of learning, wouldn't you agree? Funny, I was basically saying all that about Dykhuis and Quintal over the summer (and earlier), saying I'd rather see kids or reclamation projects getting chances in those minor roles, and yet there was a strong opinion that we didn't have the kids to do so - and now that PB is having a rough stretch we'd be better off with those kids playing not 10 minutes like I wanted, but playing 20 ? I don't get it.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jan 8, 2003 16:12:03 GMT -5
Well, I simply have to reply to that. First of all, Bouillon will hit people. He wants to play. He doesn't give a sh*t about his paycheck. Every shift, even though he may be overmatched, he will give it his all. He may not be NHL caliber, but , really, obviously, is Patrice Brisebois? Please tell me, what other NHL G.M. would pay 4 million dollars a year for what he brings to this team? Please tell me, what other NHL G.M. would pay 2 million dollars a year for what he would bring to any team? Hurt or not, the guy sucks, and his teammates know it, I can guarantee you that. Would you rather watch Komi, Hainsey, Bouillon, Jarventie making these mistakes night after night, as long as they are taking something away from their mistakes. Learning. Hey, I know I would. I've been watching the same sad song forever, and I am sick of it. He obviously is past the stage of learning, wouldn't you agree? Like Therrien, he is a cancer on this team. They are consistently losing because of him. Granted, he's not the only one, but he has been here forever, should know how to lead by example. Even if he's not a rah-rah type of guy, he has to bring something to the table. Exactly what is he bringing to the table? Please, tell me. I've been wrapped in this conondrum forever. I agree 200% Ged!
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