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Post by Raven on Dec 29, 2002 11:08:39 GMT -5
The 1st would have to be when a goal is scored while the net is knocked off. This is the 2nd time in 2 season we get a goal called back while the net gets knocked off by a player of the opposite team while we score a goal. Last season in a crucial game for playoff position against the Rangers, Gilmour scored a goal which got called back because a Rangers player knocked the net off while it was going in. Last night was the same story. I don't think a penaly on this sort of play is enough. Think about it, why not knock the net off on every goalmouth scramble? Even if you take a penalty, which is only gonna happen 1 outta 5 times anyway, it's still better to take your chances on the PK than get a goal against right? The rule must be to go upstairs on video and see who knocked the net off. If it's a player on the opposite team, the goal should stand. Unless that is, he was clearly pushed into the net. By pushed I don't mean a little tug, I mean a push. It takes a lot to knock that net off and a tug doesn't cut it.
The 2nd rule has to be the crosschecking in the crease. Last night Bulis knocked a Pens D man into the goalie and got called for goaltender interference. That was a clear penalty, it should have been called and it was. Why wasn't that same penalty called last night when the Sens scored the tying goal with 45 seconds remaining? It was the exact same play, Rivet got crosschecked from behind right into Theodore and the Sens scored an easy goal with Theo outta position.
These 2 missed calls, or rather, 1 missed call and 1 rediculously idiotic rule, cost us 3 points over the passed 2 games. We're playing like total crap anyway and probably deserved to lose both games but along with playing like crap it seems like the refs aren't exactly helping our cause. Don't even get me started on the freakin' linesmen giving the opositions assists when we're trying to clear the puck outta the zone and it hits the damn linesmen. Anyone remember the McCarthy goal on that very same game against the Rangers? Mr. Mcgoo's 1st assist of the season.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 29, 2002 11:25:37 GMT -5
The 1st would have to be when a goal is scored while the net is knocked off. This is the 2nd time in 2 season we get a goal called back while the net gets knocked off by a player of the opposite team while we score a goal. Last season in a crucial game for playoff position against the Rangers, Gilmour scored a goal which got called back because a Rangers player knocked the net off while it was going in. Last night was the same story. I don't think a penaly on this sort of play is enough. Think about it, why not knock the net off on every goalmouth scramble? Even if you take a penalty, which is only gonna happen 1 outta 5 times anyway, it's still better to take your chances on the PK than get a goal against right? The rule must be to go upstairs on video and see who knocked the net off. If it's a player on the opposite team, the goal should stand. Unless that is, he was clearly pushed into the net. By pushed I don't mean a little tug, I mean a push. It takes a lot to knock that net off and a tug doesn't cut it. The 2nd rule has to be the crosschecking in the crease. Last night Bulis knocked a Pens D man into the goalie and got called for goaltender interference. That was a clear penalty, it should have been called and it was. Why wasn't that same penalty called last night when the Sens scored the tying goal with 45 seconds remaining? It was the exact same play, Rivet got crosschecked from behind right into Theodore and the Sens scored an easy goal with Theo outta position. These 2 missed calls, or rather, 1 missed call and 1 rediculously idiotic rule, cost us 3 points over the passed 2 games. We're playing like total crap anyway and probably deserved to lose both games but along with playing like crap it seems like the refs aren't exactly helping our cause. Don't even get me started on the freakin' linesmen giving the opositions assists when we're trying to clear the puck outta the zone and it hits the damn linesmen. Anyone remember the McCarthy goal on that very same game against the Rangers? Mr. Mcgoo's 1st assist of the season. I think what you're referring to is a lack of consistency from one night to the next. Far too often it seems like the officials are calling what they preceive the rules to be. And this happens frequently, as often as night to night I'd say. Your example of the net being knocked off it's posts is a good one for sure, Raven. But, if you watched Therrien last night (and could read lips) he was well within his right to have asked who it was that jarred the net off. If you noticed, the official avoided the question completely and skated off. That was wrong and tells me that the official wasn't prepared to answer the question as he didn't have all of the facts. Then you see Therrien beaking off as the official skated the other way. It might have been wrong to do that, but I didn't blame him one bit. He, and his team, were boned. Your other example of the Fisher crosscheck is also viable. It might have only been a nudge but it was interference. The odd thing was that neither Rivet or Theo thought to argue the point too seriously. The other thing I found odd was why Rivet let him out of his sights. It was only for a flash, but that's all it took. Still, you're right about the inconsistency of the calls. One call I'd like to see is the no-touch icing. Don Cherry has been flogging this for a while now and he's got a legitimate point, IMHO. Cheers.
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Post by Raven on Dec 29, 2002 11:29:50 GMT -5
You're right about the inconsitancy when it comes to the Fisher goal. That was a blown call for sure. But as far as I know, it doesn't matter who knocks the net off or what the circumstances are. The goal is ALWAYS disallowed when the net is not on and that's a dumb rule that has to be changed.
I agree 100% on the no touch icing btw.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 29, 2002 11:46:13 GMT -5
No touch icing would be great.
And the net lifted up rule is ridiculous. It happened last week in Phoenix as well. In OT, Amonte went to the net, the net went up, Numminen put home a loose puck, Yotes think they won, they go upstairs...no goal because the net was lifted.
Even if the net was not lifted it was gonna be a goal. Same thing for Zed's.
IT DOESN'T CHANGE A THING!!!!
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Post by UberCranky on Dec 29, 2002 11:52:15 GMT -5
Simple rule change. If the net is lifted and a goal is scored, then a penalty must be assessed to the offending team. Period.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 29, 2002 12:51:38 GMT -5
This is what Therrien was trying to ascetain, HA. Who was it that dislodged the net in the first place. Even Cole and Neale were questioning why there was no penalty on the play.
I don't know the ruling but last night's incident was another in a long line of inconsistent calls this year, as Raven alluded to.
I really didn't want to mention Bad Company's point in that it seems odd calls are consistently going against the Habs, but there might be some substance to it. I mean, after watching the referee avoid Therrien's question as to who was accountable for removing the net off it's moorings it suggested several things; he didn't ask who knocked it off and he wasn't prepared to field the question.
Maybe I'm reaching a tad, but I don't find BC's observation all that out of the ordinary right now. Then again, it could very well be that when things go bad, they just snowball.
Cheers.
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Post by Raven on Dec 29, 2002 14:08:45 GMT -5
Simple rule change. If the net is lifted and a goal is scored, then a penalty must be assessed to the offending team. Period. Absolutely not! This would cause a major problem. Like I said in the beginning of the thread, why not just knock the net off on every goalmouth scramble just incase the puck goes in? It's better taking a penalty (half of which won't get called anyway) then to take a goal against. Hey, this could become a strategy, like the trap. 'ok boys, remember, whenever they're in the crease wacking away at the puck, one of you has to take the net off just to make sure there's no goal, we'll take the penalty if they happen to call it, we're better off taking our chances on the PK. got it?! Good, let's run the drill to make sure we got this down perfect' gimme a break... If something like that happens, the goal needs to stand. Period! PP does not equal a goal scored. Not even close.
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Post by seventeen on Dec 29, 2002 15:58:14 GMT -5
Yep, assessing a penalty in that case is like a shooting squad using blanks. It might be scary, but no damage. 1) the goal counts, 2) a 2 minute penalty is assessed, 3) a 10 minute misconduct to the criminal. I might be willing to forget the 2 minute penalty, maybe the goal and misconduct are enough. See, you just set consequences and things look after themselves. You want to control stick infractions? Minimum 10 game suspension without pay. Watch those sticks come down. Hitting from behind into the boards? 40 game suspension, or whatever is necessary to stop it, whether it's 10 games or 80 games. Tough love.
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Post by Rhiessan on Dec 29, 2002 17:38:27 GMT -5
The only thing that has to change with the net getting knocked off is the REF should of made the call not let it go into the hands off video replay. I remember a couple of years ago (90-91 I think) in the playoffs Mnt vs Bos game 6 Bruins leading 2-1 or 3-2 with the goalie pulled Montreal was crashing the net and Moog couldn't see anything so he just backed into the net and knocked it off about 2 seconds before Lebeau tied it. The Ref let the goal stand anyway even though the net was off by almost a foot.
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Post by GoMtl on Dec 29, 2002 17:41:01 GMT -5
i want no center red line, that would be fun
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Post by Raven on Dec 29, 2002 17:55:17 GMT -5
with our terrible defence, the last thing we need is no red line...
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Post by GoMtl on Dec 29, 2002 18:18:50 GMT -5
im not talking to the habs benefit, i'm talking about watching hockey in general, it would be fun to watch.
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Post by Lord Stanley on Dec 30, 2002 11:10:01 GMT -5
I am a fan of the non red line too... look at the junior championships..the long passes from tape to tape are always fun to watch..
And for the net being knocked off by the dmen..I think the closest thing to fair would be a penalty shot..just like when the dmen grabs the puck with his hands in the crease..I know it sux to get some goals refused beacause of that..but we could do the same..as a matter of fact..Dykhuis should try to master this thing..he would finally help the club
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Post by Haburgher on Dec 30, 2002 19:17:37 GMT -5
The Zednik goal that wasn't is an example of the ref's cowering to Lemieux. There is no way that goal should have been negated.
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Post by Raven on Dec 31, 2002 18:41:00 GMT -5
I am a fan of the non red line too... look at the junior championships..the long passes from tape to tape are always fun to watch.. And for the net being knocked off by the dmen..I think the closest thing to fair would be a penalty shot..just like when the dmen grabs the puck with his hands in the crease..I know it sux to get some goals refused beacause of that..but we could do the same..as a matter of fact..Dykhuis should try to master this thing..he would finally help the club I laughed when I read that but as I did the entire concept that this thing could actually become a strategy erased the smile off my face. It's not a joke. When you can actually turn a loophole in the rule book to a strategy of robbing the opposite team of goals, it's a pretty bad loophole and it must be corrected.
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