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Post by Yeti on Dec 29, 2002 1:19:02 GMT -5
How long will AS watch the habs ship sinking? The Caps are surging and we just lost to the isles and pens, two teams chasing us. We have to win our next 3 games to play .500 on this trip. Considering we are barely able to play .500 at home, we are in trouble. The effects of the Denver meeting, where players took control of the team, seem to be vanishing. By reading the game reports, it seems we are being badly outplayed again, "chaos on ice" is the name of MT' system.
My view of AS didn't change tough, I still think he's the best man for the job. He made mistakes, like every GM. But he's got the head and skills to fix this mess at some point. MT made mistakes, like every NHL coach, but I don't think he's got the head and skills to fix up anything in the near future. He's got a full and more talented line-up compared to last year and we are playing worst and we must be no more than 3-4 points ahead of last year pace. That "progress" seems to be shrinking by the day. What's next? Another players meeting? Another speech by Savard? That can only work on rare occasions, I think this team is running out of options in terms of shake-up solutions. Savard has to take some blame for it. He has to get rid of Audette no matter what. Just remember that when Savard acquired Audette, he was coming out a 73 points season and that habs were struggling to score 2 goals per game. Bad luck, but I think Audette is now damaged goods because of his injury. On top of that, we have two players on pace for 35-40 goals, they are making Audette looks like dead wood (he is)... But moving a player or two won't be enough, how can Savard not see the glaring mistakes of MT since about a year ago? Lack of leadership, poor judgment and composure during the playoffs? Embarassing lack of effort this season one game out of 3? I think he's already planning something for the coaching staff.
The question is not if Therrien will be fired, the question is when. At the end of his contract? This season as soon as the habs look in danger of missing the playoffs? The latter scenario could come as soon as 2-3 weeks for now. This summer he went out to get a former NHL coach, Charron. He's one emergency option if we need to fire MT on the spot. Another serious candidate has to be Julien. I always heard good things about him. He did make it to the NHL, although for only 14 games. He's got experience at the international level, he's older than Therrien (and Gilmour). Appartently he's good at communicating with players (I heard it before, but Hainsey also seem to like him). I know he's got a loaded line-up, that's why they have a record of 26-6 but at least he knows how to use the players. If the like of Robinson or Gainey are not available (I think they are long shots), at least Savard made sure we have internal solutions more attractive than a Therrien-type of coach (young with no NHL experience whatsoever, dealing with his share of criticisms at the AHL level). Therrien may not be the worst NHL coach, but he's certainly in the top 10. This is the habs, I hope we are shooting for higher than this. Cheers and happy new year Yeti
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Post by TheHabsfan on Dec 29, 2002 11:01:33 GMT -5
I think that the Habs need to start learning from their mistakes. Their last two coaches have been rookies. At this point, we need to get a guy with experience who is respected and is known for his hockey ingenuity and system. Julien, to me, is just more of the same. Gainey and Robinson are my first choices. They are warriors who have been through it all and know what it takes to win. The players respect that and so do I. Cheers.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 29, 2002 11:04:10 GMT -5
like THF said...NO MORE ROOKIE HEAD COACHES!
Why do you think this org has had so few players blossom here and went to blossom elsewhere...because rookie head coaches don't give a damn about the future and they only care about the present.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 29, 2002 11:09:58 GMT -5
How long will AS watch the habs ship sinking? The Caps are surging and we just lost to the isles and pens, two teams chasing us. We have to win our next 3 games to play .500 on this trip. Considering we are barely able to play .500 at home, we are in trouble. The effects of the Denver meeting, where players took control of the team, seem to be vanishing. By reading the game reports, it seems we are being badly outplayed again, "chaos on ice" is the name of MT' system. You're right in that we're being outplayed again, Yeti. Les good guys have been outshot in 32 of their games this year. And in some of those games they've been totally outclassed. CO pointed out just after the season began that it almost seemed the players were rebelling for some reason. Well, they're playing just well enough to keep their fans interested as far as I'm concerned and when they don't feel like playing .... It seems to be shrinking because of the inconsistent and lackluster play of late. These guys are much better than what they'be been showing up of that I'm certain. But nobody is saying a word as to what is wrong. You only know what happens to players who admit that. Well, you're not alone there Yeti. There's a vast majority of posters who feel Therrien has worn out his welcome and as of late, you can include me in that mob. It might be different if he had, say, started out as an assistant, but I honestly feel he's in over his head as the head coach. I honestly don't know anything about Claude Julien to tell you the truth. I know he has a talented team to work with in the "A" but that's about it. I willing to try other options if it means a coaching change, but would we be in the same boat promoting Julien to the pros as we were in promoting Therrien? Just a thought. yeah, they're long shots at best. Larry has a home in Florida that he flys down to from Jersey, while Gainey can write his own ticket anywhere he wants to. Like Scotty Bowman, Gainey can pick and select anywhere he wants to work. I'd love him in Montreal, but why he'd want to go that climate I'll never know. And a very happy and safe New Year to you and yours, Yeti. Dis. Yeti[/quote]
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Post by UberCranky on Dec 29, 2002 11:48:13 GMT -5
Yeti, you have missed toe stubbings and shin kickings because that is what it feels to watch the Hab's this year. Indeed, the last four years.
Some will blame the players but I blame the coaching staff. They have covered the CH with a blankets of mediocrity that no amount of player pride or hard work can overcome. Therrien is now nothing more then a man desperately holding on to his job. Savard, while appearing to have the ability to make this club into something special, has now shown his “average” abilities. He is no Sammy.
Yeti, do not be fooled by the newspaper hype that passes for reporting these days. I am not impressed by Julien. No one has ever made the argument that he knows what he is doing. Particularly at the NHL level. His success with Hamilton is strictly the result of having the equivalent of the ’77 Canadiens in the AHL. You, me, even my pet hamster can wiggle a nose and send out the right players.
The Hab’s need a brain. No amount of lore, history or pride can be dusted over these players and make them play like they know what they are doing. All we have now is pond hockey at it’s best. We need an experienced coach that will grab this willing but lost bunch of player by the scruff of their neck and make them play the way he wants them.
One glaring and painful example happened over and over the night before. The Senetors with 2 passes and minimum skating were able to get the puck out of our zone, time and time again while Therriens favorite Chihuahua, a superstar defenseman named Traverse, bounced the puck of the glass in hope and prayer that they did not score on his shift. Time and time again, his around the board or “expert” glass passing gave up possession to the other team. Is it nay surprise we get out-shot, game after game, after game? This is what passes as a defenseman for Montreal these days. In fact, in one instance, I broke out in laughter )and tears) because the famous Traverse shot the puck at the opposite boards. He obviously got his “around the boards” confused with his “off the glass” and the net result was a spectacular brain fart where he shot it dead across his own boards and gave the opposition a perfect chance to score. That, my friend, is what passes for coaching and defensive plays in our 2002 Hab’s.
We need more then another coach’potatoe filler. The Hab’s are not an experiment or a learning center for coaching clowns. The Hab’s must be coached by someone with experience and knowledge.
Our CH tattooed hearts are tired of watching mediocrity.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 29, 2002 11:56:59 GMT -5
Amen HA.
WE ARE THE FREAKIN MONTREAL CANADIENS!! Not the Thrashers, not the Sabres, not the Cototes...THE MONTREAL CANADIENS!! More cups than anyone, more players in the HOF than anyone, we are supposed to be the FREAKIN best. We are supposed to have the best personel. WE DON'T.
We are:
The Yankees of hockey.
The Celtics of hockey.
The Team Canada of the NHL.
The Ferrari of the NHL.
What the hell are we doing with a big time bafoon behind the bench. What are we doing with a team that is the easiest to play against in the whole damn league.
Enough is enough already.
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Post by Yeti on Dec 29, 2002 15:51:03 GMT -5
If Gainey and/or Robinson are available NOW, it's a no brainer.
Just for fun, let us assume they are not available (at least not now) and that we come back from this road trip with 3 pts out of 14 and in 10th place. Ouch.
Do you keep Therrien or you gamble by trying someone else as an interim coach. Considering the fact that AS is always quick to extend his coach' contract in order for him to have more authority, we have to admit the interim solution (a guy like Julien) don't seem very likely.
Then I submit you with another scenario. AS being done with WJC scouting, he fire Therrien and goes behind the bench until the end of the season, or until he finds the perfect man for the job (2-3 months of negociation to steal Robinson or Gainey from their respective organization). What do you guys think of seeing As behind for the bench for a few weeks/months?
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Post by seventeen on Dec 29, 2002 16:16:18 GMT -5
Amen HA. WE ARE THE FREAKIN MONTREAL CANADIENS!!We are: The Yankees of hockey. The Celtics of hockey. The Team Canada of the NHL. The Ferrari of the NHL. What the hell are we doing with a big time bafoon behind the bench. What are we doing with a team that is the easiest to play against in the whole damn league. Enough is enough already. Well, Marc, being the Monreal Canadiens and $2 will get you a cup of coffee these days. Other teams drool when we come up on the schedule. It's their chance to break that losing streak or definitely extend that winning streak. They prepare for games by watching Three Stooges re-runs and then cap it off with a video of Therrien's coaching moves. No wonder they're so loose and relaxed when they play us. I'm not sure I understand this infatuation with Robinson and Gainey as future Habs coaches. Gainey has nothing on his resume about coaching success and Robinson seems to have made it obvious he's not keen on coaching in Montreal. His Cup success as coach occurred in New Jersey, did it not? After replacing Ftorek? You have to wonder about that because teams always seem to get a jump after a coaching change, though in fairness it usually wears off after 10 games or so. The only guy I can see who is available, has experience, has previous success and speaks French is Bob Hartley, but I don't think Savard wants him. The more I hear about the Colorado situation the more I think Lacroix is more interested in keeping control than anything else. He fired Marc Crawford after Crawford was experienced enough to want more say in player decisions. Crawford got that in Vancouver, but not in Denver. I wonder if Hartley was inching toward that same goal. AS is a control freak too, so it would be a miracle if he hires Hartley. Too bad, as it would be a 500% improvement over what we have now.
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Post by Yeti on Dec 29, 2002 16:46:10 GMT -5
The way I see it seventeen is that Gainey or Robinson would be more respected by the players than Therrien is. It means less whining, more time working as an unit. Therrien still has everything to prove and nothing in his resume to impress anyone in the dressing room. Gainey and Robinson were warriors and leaders wearing a few stanley cup rings. Just to get a real leader in place is already an improvement. Are they worst than Therrien as far as the technical stuff is concerned... i doubt it. They know the game better than MT.
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Post by UberCranky on Dec 29, 2002 23:12:10 GMT -5
Interesting premise Seventeen. True professional managers hire the best man for the job. If As is not afraid of his job then he should have no problem hiring someone who can and will question him. On the other hand, lack of confidence in ones own abilities makes for a very defensive manager.
I thought that there was some relationship between Lacroix and Savard? If that is the case, it can either poisen or hasten the decision. Regardless, nothing will happen unless...............
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Post by seventeen on Dec 30, 2002 1:06:33 GMT -5
The way I see it seventeen is that Gainey or Robinson would be more respected by the players than Therrien is. It means less whining, more time working as an unit. Therrien still has everything to prove and nothing in his resume to impress anyone in the dressing room. Gainey and Robinson were warriors and leaders wearing a few stanley cup rings. Just to get a real leader in place is already an improvement. Are they worst than Therrien as far as the technical stuff is concerned... i doubt it. They know the game better than MT. Without a doubt, Yeti. I was looking at the long term. Both Gainey and Robinson are huge improvements over MT. Of course, my first cat in her present condition would be a sizeable improvement, rest her soul. My pick (if my 52 piece band hasn't made it obvious enough) is Hartley, because he's been successful over long periods, with various teams. In fact, I was curious about the players on his Calder Cup team in Hershey in 97/98. Were they the loaded team of the league? Here's their roster. Blair Atcheynum, Josef Marha, Mike McHugh, Eric Veilleux, Richard Brennan, Pascal Trepanier,Steffon Walby, Kurt Miller, Eric Messier (aha!, he's around), Christian Matte, Doug Friedman, Rob Shearer, Paul Jerrard, Blair Scott, Mike Hartman, Steve Lindgren, Cory Banika (yes, the Cory Banika), Wade Belak (yawn), Nic Beaudoin and various other guys with less than 18 games each, Yves Sarault being the only recognizable name on the list (recognizeable only to true Habs fans). Their goalie was JF Labbe. Bleak group of players. Took them to a championship. Who'd now like to produce the "anyone can coach that talented group in Colorado" argument? Besides which it isn't easy coaching stars anyway. The Hartley bandwagon is loading up. Get your tickets first. At least later we can say, "AS should have hired BH like we told him!".
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 30, 2002 10:08:14 GMT -5
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Post by seventeen on Dec 31, 2002 1:28:48 GMT -5
Well, I just wasted some of your time and mine Marc. Couldn't figure out how the Hockey News Yearbook could miss out Marc Denis. That's because he wasn't on the Calder Cup team, which was the 96-97 edition, not 97-98 as I first wrote. Labbe was the goalie. The point still stands....not a superior team talent wise. They had to be ok for their year, but Philly had the most recognizable talent.
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