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Post by KR on Dec 30, 2002 19:36:23 GMT -5
Bad Company's thread re ice-time got me to thinking. I've noticed for some time that whomever the Habs play, the opposition's top forwards always log more ice-time than Montreal's top forwards. A lot more. I did a little research and found that 79, count 'em, 79 forwards are averaging more ice-time than Koivu. What's up with that?? There are only 30 teams and there are 79 forwards averaging more than our top forward? What do 29 other coaches realize that MT does not. Or should that question be what does MT know that the other 29 coaches don't? Nah. The former makes more sense.
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Post by FormerLurker on Dec 30, 2002 19:44:51 GMT -5
Koivu is a cancer survivor, only played three regular season games last year, and hasn't played a full season since 95-96. It makes sense to restrict his ice time so that he doesn't burn out or get injured.
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Post by Viper on Dec 30, 2002 19:46:35 GMT -5
So, the owner of this drug store walks in to find a guy leaning heavily against a wall. The owner asks the clerk, "What's with the guy over there by the wall?"
The clerk says, "Well, he came in here this morning to get something for his cough. I couldn't find the cough syrup, so I gave him an entire bottle of laxatives."
And the owner says "You idiot! You can't treat a cough with a bottle of laxatives!"
And the clerk says, "Of course you can! Look at him; he's afraid to cough"
Creativity !!!! wouldn't it be nice if MThead had some that worked as effective as this.
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Post by Patty Roy on Dec 30, 2002 19:58:03 GMT -5
I have no problem with the ice-time that MT is giving Koivu. I believe he is between 18-19 minutes right now which is decent. Koivu has looked sluggish at times this season even with a bit less ice-time, so this is one of MT's moves that i agree with...
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Dec 30, 2002 20:03:32 GMT -5
Personally, where I think Koivu has been hobbled the most is by being on the first pp unit with the Donald. His pp time hasn't been as effective as you'd hope from your first line center and I think Audette has something to do with that.
I don't have a problem with his ice time. It's a long season and he takes a beating.
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Post by GoMtl on Dec 30, 2002 20:15:59 GMT -5
koivu's icetime doesnt bother me at all, like others said he's recovering from cancer and hasnt played a full season in years, so this season under 20 minutes is fine, we'll see where it goes from there, next year maybe 20? but i would play zednik 20+ a game, he's deserves to play a lot, and is much more effective then guys like audette who get 15 or so minutes a game, give zednik another 5 and cut audette's ice time by 5 minutes. almost all top teams double shift their top forwards, vancouver play bertuzzi and morrison on their other lines all the time, and it works well for them.
as for defense, i'd also play markov 25 to 30 minutes a game, it seems he usually gets under 25 minutes a game while traverse often gets 25+ now, i'd much rather have andrei out there logging a lot of time, he's been our best d man this year.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 30, 2002 20:49:25 GMT -5
But KR raises a good point
Check the number 1 centers in the league. I am sure most of them average at least 20-25 minutes per game.
The Habs play a ''we are so scared...we must have a checking line'' game and sometimes it hurts us IMO.
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Post by TheHabsfan on Dec 30, 2002 21:11:48 GMT -5
The Habs play a ''we are so scared...we must have a checking line'' game and sometimes it hurts us IMO. It would be nice to have the opposing team check us for once. Unfortunately, we don't have a real dominating first line. Opposing teams aren't affraid of the Habs anymore. We are known as a defensive team. This makes for boring hockey and makes MT's job easier. He doesn't need to come up with an intelligent system, an innovative way to use his smaller players. He focuses on his defense first system. We don't play to win, we play not to lose. And I hate it!
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 30, 2002 21:30:32 GMT -5
actually, are the Habs known as a defensive or offensive minded team Quite frankly I don't know Defensive minded teams don't give up 35-40 shots a night Offensive minded teams don't shoot 12 times a night
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Post by Patty Roy on Dec 30, 2002 21:37:52 GMT -5
But KR raises a good point Check the number 1 centers in the league. I am sure most of them average at least 20-25 minutes per game. The Habs play a ''we are so scared...we must have a checking line'' game and sometimes it hurts us IMO. Well Koivu's average ice time is 18:33 which puts him in the same range (give or take 30 seconds per game) as the following players... Keith Primeau Craig Conroy Martin Straka Vincent Damphousse Teemu Selanne Mike Comrie Pavol Demitra Jeremy Roenick Shane Doan Bill Guerin Marian Hossa Marian Gaborik Steve Sullivan Simon Gagne Patrick Marleau Sami Kapanen Brendan Shanahan Radek Bonk Now #1 Centers between 20-25 minutes a game... Mario Lemieux (23:42) Viktor Kozlov (22:48)/ Olli Jokinen (21:59) Joe Sakic (22:21) Joe Thornton (22:18) Alexei Zhamnov (21:55) Daymong Langkow (21:41) Sergei Fedorov (21:36) Brendan Morrisson (21:18) Steve Rucchin (21:12) Doug Weight (21:04) Mike Modano (21:04) Mats Sundin (20:43) Jason Allison (20:35) Alexei Yashin (20:34) Eric Lindros (20:12) Ron Francis (20:05) I may have missed a few, but that gives us 16/30 #1 centers who log more than 20 minutes a night. That's less than what i had expected...
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Post by TheHabsfan on Dec 30, 2002 22:07:20 GMT -5
actually, are the Habs known as a defensive or offensive minded team Quite frankly I don't know Defensive minded teams don't give up 35-40 shots a night Offensive minded teams don't shoot 12 times a night They are definitely a defense first team. They try to play the same system as Ottawa. 1-2-2 trap, wait for turnovers and live off the transition. Of course, I never said they were good at it! Obviously giving up 40 shots per night while getting 13...something has to change. But I don't count on MT to come up with anything except juggling lines. Do I sound fed up? I feel fed up!!!
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 31, 2002 0:19:44 GMT -5
Well Koivu's average ice time is 18:33 which puts him in the same range (give or take 30 seconds per game) as the following players... Keith Primeau Craig Conroy Martin Straka Vincent Damphousse Teemu Selanne Mike Comrie Pavol Demitra Jeremy Roenick Shane Doan Bill Guerin Marian Hossa Marian Gaborik Steve Sullivan Simon Gagne Patrick Marleau Sami Kapanen Brendan Shanahan Radek Bonk Now #1 Centers between 20-25 minutes a game... Mario Lemieux (23:42) Viktor Kozlov (22:48)/ Olli Jokinen (21:59) Joe Sakic (22:21) Joe Thornton (22:18) Alexei Zhamnov (21:55) Daymong Langkow (21:41) Sergei Fedorov (21:36) Brendan Morrisson (21:18) Steve Rucchin (21:12) Doug Weight (21:04) Mike Modano (21:04) Mats Sundin (20:43) Jason Allison (20:35) Alexei Yashin (20:34) Eric Lindros (20:12) Ron Francis (20:05) I may have missed a few, but that gives us 16/30 #1 centers who log more than 20 minutes a night. That's less than what i had expected... thanks for looking that up! interesting...
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 31, 2002 0:21:19 GMT -5
They are definitely a defense first team. They try to play the same system as Ottawa. 1-2-2 trap, wait for turnovers and live off the transition. Of course, I never said they were good at it! Obviously giving up 40 shots per night while getting 13...something has to change. But I don't count on MT to come up with anything except juggling lines. Do I sound fed up? I feel fed up!!! you forgot the Habs goal is: ''giving up 15(!) scoring chances per night'' 15!! 5 scoring chances per period When you aim low, you get mediocre results
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