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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 28, 2002 22:21:07 GMT -5
All the good teams seem to have a bunch of great grinders/muckers on their 3rd and 4th line. Guys who bring energy to the team when the team needs a dose of it. Guys who defend their 'mates. Guys who can chip in with a goal sometime.
The Habs 4th line is a JOKE. Ribeiro, Blouin, Audette, Czerkawski when he was here...LOL...these guys can't change the tempo of a game and the 3 offensive guys need to be on the top 2 lines to be effective. Blouin is a horrible goon who can't play and can't fight.
Just look at the ''grinders'' for the good teams:
Vancouver: Chubarov, Cooke, Letowski, Klatt, Lindgren, Langdon,etc
Blues: Mayers, Podein, Nash, Drake,etc
Red Wings: McCarthy, Draper, Maltby, Avery...man those guys are amazing in their role
Sharks: Bradley, Thornton, Smith, Ricci,etc
Another example is our Team Canada in WJC: Paille, Roy, McClement and JORDIN TOOTOO have changed the tempo of the first 2 games. Habs have NO players who can do this.
The Habs have enough offensive skill...their supporting cast is just not good enough. Most of the players I just named are guys you can acquire for nothing at all. Get to work AS! The Habs are the easiest team to play against in the league. We need, like Pierre McGuire would say, SOME JAM!!!!!!!
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Post by GoMtl on Dec 28, 2002 22:34:38 GMT -5
the last thing i want to hear is a few more "whamo's" from pierre, but i'd gladly accept them if it meant putting W's on the board for the CH... if Savard can't aquire these players via trade, i think i know the name of a couple guys in hamilton who would love to take on that role for us... possibly gratton and ward? could it work? those two with lindsay as a 4th line?
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Post by seventeen on Dec 28, 2002 23:03:10 GMT -5
AS doesn't want guys like that. There have surely been opportunities to acquire one or two along the way (Malhotra for example). We had one and threw him to Milbury. Not a great player, but a grinder, a hitter, a guy who can throw it with the best middleweights. The more you look at this team, the more you have to question Savard's judgement. I doubt he's stupid, but he seems to have thin skin sometimes and really thick skin other times. He has this idea of a team and it doesn't seem to involve role players much. Maybe it's just coincidence, but Ottawa has changed it's make-up since Savard left. More jam, less flimflam.
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Post by Yossarian on Dec 28, 2002 23:19:43 GMT -5
Listening to the Bulldogs broadcast tonight, they described Gratton as a "buzzsaw". Always trying to cause sh*t, intense on every shift, chirping to the refs on about 40% of the calls against him. They went on to say that he plays like a guy who has had a taste of the NHL, and wants to get back there, but is a victim of the size thing. Consistent with the recent Habsrus scouting report. Good job gents!!
Just the kind of guy this team could use right know to create some presence on the forecheck, and ease some of the pressure on the D which is being exposed as very soft and weak, and lower the shot totals against.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 29, 2002 11:29:23 GMT -5
Yes....a Lindsay-Gratton-Ward unit could be exactly what I am talking about. and I agree with 17...you have to wonder if AS has any clue how to build a team. It's not all about getting talented offensive minded players. You need a good mix. Even the Pens( ) have more grinders than we do. Nieminen, Primeau, Donovan, Manderville,etc...
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Post by BadCompany on Dec 29, 2002 14:07:23 GMT -5
I wonder if Savard really thought the hi, ho, silver approach was going to work, or if they just said that because they had so many offensive players, and no other choice. I mean, it wasn't a bad idea at the time, especially if the league was serious about cracking down on obstruction, we just didn't have the right type of offensive players to make it work. I.e. fast, crashing types, that wear down opponents over the course of a game, as opposed to passive, slow, finishing types, with no creative imagination of their own. Still, I wonder if the current mess stems back to that failed experiement, or if that experiment was made necessary because of the mess accumulated on the roster. Chicken or egg thing.
Any whoo.
I don't particularily think that it is necessary to have a grinding, in-your-face 4th line (though that is where I would lean), but I do think it is necessary to have a 4th line with a specific role. As every line should have. I look at the 4th lines we throw together, and its just a mish-mash of non-complimentary players. Ribeiro and Blouin? Czerkawsi and Lindsay? Kilger and Audette? There is no rhyme or reason to any of it, and thus Therrien can't use them consistantly, because they have no role. Assuming he is capable of rolling four lines of course.
A decision has to be made on what type of 4th line we want.
Grinding, in your face 4th line, with limited minutes? Lindsay, Gratton/Landry, Ward.
Offensive 4th line, capable of surprising in 8-10 minutes of play? Czerkawski, Ribeiro, Audette
Kiddie line? Hossa, Ribeiro, Ward
Goon? Lindsay, Gratton/Landry, Blouin
Energy, crash and bang? Lindsay, Kilger, Ward
Whatever. The pieces are there, they just have to be re-arranged somewhat, and a team concept has to be implemented. "You are the 4th line, if you do not hit one player on every shift, you do not play." That sort of thing.
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Post by Viper on Dec 29, 2002 14:21:39 GMT -5
Yes....a Lindsay-Gratton-Ward unit could be exactly what I am talking about. and I agree with 17...you have to wonder if AS has any clue how to build a team. It's not all about getting talented offensive minded players. You need a good mix. Even the Pens( ) have more grinders than we do. Nieminen, Primeau, Donovan, Manderville,etc... This is the very thing i've been questioning for some time now building a team is something i wonder if AS is capable of sure he can evaluate talent and see good versus bad but does he really know how to put the puzzle together thus far it is a question mark and the Cerkawski fiasco only further emphasizes my origonal doubts. I still want to give it time but this season is trudging along with the sasme old same old which is the same old as last season's "Save us Theodore or Hackett" approach. It is getting extremely tiresome watching this team get horribly outplayed night after night only to see us sit around the 500 mark because our goaltending is way above average. People always used to say Roy was a one man show while he was here pardon me but that is a completely untrue concept by comparison to this attrocity disquising itself as a hockey club especially a club that wears the most prestigous and recognized sweater in all of hockey.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 29, 2002 16:56:11 GMT -5
This is the very thing i've been questioning for some time now building a team is something i wonder if AS is capable of sure he can evaluate talent and see good versus bad but does he really know how to put the puzzle together thus far it is a question mark and the Cerkawski fiasco only further emphasizes my origonal doubts. I still want to give it time but this season is trudging along with the sasme old same old which is the same old as last season's "Save us Theodore or Hackett" approach. It is getting extremely tiresome watching this team get horribly outplayed night after night only to see us sit around the 500 mark because our goaltending is way above average. People always used to say Roy was a one man show while he was here pardon me but that is a completely untrue concept by comparison to this attrocity disquising itself as a hockey club especially a club that wears the most prestigous and recognized sweater in all of hockey. Yup. I agree totally.
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