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Post by Doc Holliday on Dec 23, 2002 21:36:27 GMT -5
39 - 13 against the Isles... A total meltdown in the 3rd...
Enough is enough. Out they go.
Bring in Bob Gainey and Larry Robinson.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 23, 2002 21:38:08 GMT -5
Doubt it.
We are still in the playoffs and over .500
The only way MT goes is if we fall 4-5-6 games under .500
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Post by TheHabsfan on Dec 23, 2002 21:39:58 GMT -5
Agree with you whole heartedly....MTL got their first shot in the third period at the 16:24 minute mark...Brutal. I have also mentionned this a couple of weeks ago...Gainey and Robinson...That's what you need! Bring em!
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Post by 24andcounting on Dec 23, 2002 21:43:39 GMT -5
FIVE DEFENSEMAN. FIVE FREAKING DEFENSEMAN.
Not because of injury. Nope, and not because of a game misconduct. Because of ONE LOUSY mistake. You know it blows my mind (and I'm sure all of yours as well) that Quintal, Dykhuis, Traverse and Breezer can all make mistakes. After all, it's all a part of the game. But if you're a rookie, apparently you're not allowed.
So instead of using a fairly mobile guy with a good shot in the dying minutes of a game (in a game that we're not taking enough shots in anyways, like THREE in the third), we're icing Traverse. And then switch him up with our ringer Rivet. Absolutely freaking brilliant.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 23, 2002 21:43:51 GMT -5
btw Doc are you saying you want Gainey to replace Savard as GM? Or Gainey as head coach and Robinson as D coach?
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Dec 23, 2002 21:49:24 GMT -5
I posted this under the post game thread but it should go here:
I actually thought just after the tying goal was scored it would have been a good time for a time out. They were getting swarmed. And yet Therrien just kept sending Ribeiro's line out and Audette instead of Kilger. You let them settle down. Take a blow for 30 seconds. Remind everybody how important this point is. They've come too far, etc, etc,. Then go with Kilger/Koivu/Zed, Lindsay/Bulis/Dackell and Gilmour/Perreault/Mckay the rest of the way. But to just let the swarming continue was bad coaching. You have a timeout. Use it.
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Post by Yeti on Dec 23, 2002 21:52:20 GMT -5
If Lou can fire a coach with a winning record 10 games before the playoffs, why can't Savard do the same ? After all, in both cases, the players got their message across that the coach was more constraints than opportunities... I don't even think the french media would react too much, we have seen many articles since last May raising questions about MT. Of course, it depends who is replacing MT. Gainey and/ or Robinson would be welcomed with open arms and enthousiasm.
C'mon Andre, you can't accept embarrassing games like this, 39-13 against the 13th team in the eastern conference. Each time we have an occasion to take off and build a small cushion over the teams behind us, we take a step back. Therrein won't take this team to the next level.
Merry X-Mas Doc and all.
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Post by Ryan on Dec 23, 2002 21:55:04 GMT -5
Yeah you'd think wouldn't ya?
But oh no, let's give MT another 2 years to turn this thing around.
Holy crap I want a 10 game losing streak to show that MT's a boob.
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Post by TheHabsfan on Dec 23, 2002 21:56:33 GMT -5
FIVE DEFENSEMAN. FIVE FREAKING DEFENSEMAN. Not because of injury. Nope, and not because of a game misconduct. Because of ONE LOUSY mistake. You know it blows my mind (and I'm sure all of yours as well) that Quintal, Dykhuis, Traverse and Breezer can all make mistakes. After all, it's all a part of the game. But if you're a rookie, apparently you're not allowed. So instead of using a fairly mobile guy with a good shot in the dying minutes of a game (in a game that we're not taking enough shots in anyways, like THREE in the third), we're icing Traverse. And then switch him up with our ringer Rivet. Absolutely freaking brilliant. My thoughts exactly. MT has done the same thing with Kilger. We barely saw him on the ice in the 3rd. Beyond me why MT insists on using Audette on the top line. Also, MT was using the Ribeiro line an aweful lot in the 3rd. Didn't he see that these guys couldn't even get the puck out of their own zone? Also, don't get me started on the $%#$% defensive shell. As soon as I saw the Ribeiro interview in the second intermission, I knew we were in trouble. He used those words that I hate to hear: "...fire it off the glass..." . IF you are wondering how come the Iles had 23 shots in the third? Look no further...this stupid puck turnover system is gonna kill the habs. Mark my words!
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Post by Yeti on Dec 23, 2002 21:58:46 GMT -5
I think Kilger scored 5 goals in his last seven games ?? Why the heck did MT replaced him with Audette? Certainly not because we are showcasing Audette. Donald is the only habs player right now whose value goes up while sitting in the press box.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 23, 2002 22:01:09 GMT -5
Kilger was invisble tonight. I just wouldn't have replaced him with Audette!
Yes I know pretty much the whole team was invisible as well
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Post by Bobs_HABit on Dec 23, 2002 22:03:28 GMT -5
Agree Doc, I actually smiled when the Isles hit the empty net.
If you're a GM looking for a reason to make a move this is a game you can point to.
Roughly speaking the D rotation in the 3rd looked something like this...
Brisebois-Traverse Quintal-Dykhuis Rivet-Traverse commercial break Brisebois-Traverse Quintal-Dykhuis Brisebois-Rivet Quintal-Dykhuis and then back to the top (to be honest, I thought Traverse was out there every 2nd shift)
Did anyone really think a tired d consisting of those names is going to turn the momentum around? MT obviously had no use for Hainsey, does AS not realize this before he makes the move?
Audette must have earned that promotion in Kilger's spot based on his powerplay assist although that didn't seem to help Ribeiro's cause.
How about a timeout to a) slow the Ilses momentum b) rest your overworked D c) prove what a great x's and o's coach you are or d) give your ugly mug some camera time
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Post by Yeti on Dec 23, 2002 22:14:28 GMT -5
At least the timing is good. AS will celebrate X-mas with his family tonight, I'm sure a cousin of some sort will inevitably ask him "André, André, kossé tu fais, ton coach est nul, les gars à shop sont pu parlables, même le boss est découragé..." There is nothing like social pressure...
Seriously, although we like to throw names like Gainey and Robinson, we don't know if they are interested and available. Who else is out there? I'm so convinced MT does not belong to NHL, i would be ready to live with Charron or Julien as interim coach... Who else is a potential candidate?
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Post by TheHabsfan on Dec 23, 2002 22:15:29 GMT -5
Kilger was invisble tonight. I just wouldn't have replaced him with Audette! Yes I know pretty much the whole team was invisible as well Ok. Agreed, he had a couple of uneventful shifts. And Audette got an assist on the powerplay...I wonder what MT was thinking: hmm! Audette is hot...let replace a 5 goal in 7 games guy with the HOT Audette. This should regain respect from the players...hmm... NOT! Also, the Ribeiro line on the ice in the 3rd period was just horrendous...I have never seen so many turnovers in so little time. The Habs were being badly outplayed and out hustled. Kilger is a quality defensive forward who can go in and calm some people down. Yet, he sits on the bench. If you want to send Kilger a message, I have no problem with that....he skips one shift and then he is out there again. But keeping him off the ice when we need to get our people under control is just hurting the team and is a stupid decision IMO. hmm...I think that I got a little pissed off tonight! I hope someone in the HO had the same reaction.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 23, 2002 22:20:12 GMT -5
At least the timing is good. AS will celebrate X-mas with his family tonight, I'm sure a cousin of some sort will inevitably ask him "André, André, kossé tu fais, ton coach est nul, les gars à shop sont pu parlables, même le boss est découragé..." There is nothing like social pressure... You'd be shocked how no one in the french media bashes MT. It's amazing Just like their hatred for Rivet, Gilmour and Hackett, yet Audette and Dykhuis..no one bashes them...
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Dec 23, 2002 22:24:23 GMT -5
If you want to send Kilger a message, I have no problem with that....he skips one shift and then he is out there again. But keeping him off the ice when we need to get our people under control is just hurting the team and is a stupid decision IMO. Exactly, or you get in his face and tell him "we need more from you tonight". Something like that. But to just send the freaking oyster over the boards expecting Zed and Koivu are going to respond well to that just doesn't cut it. I've said it before, and tonight was a good example, as soon as Audette's on that line it becomes a defensive liability. And you don't gain at all in terms of offensive output (we know that from like 25 games now), so what are you doing?
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 23, 2002 22:31:45 GMT -5
I only saw the highlights and a few shifts on the NHL network, but I couldn't believe what I was watching.
Let me get this straight, Bob; Kilger was replaced by Audette? I can only imagine how the entire line must have felt. I could be wrong, but I can visualize all three of them, Zed, Koivu, and Kilger, looking at one another in the dressingroom after the decision was made. Moves like that will do more to destroy credibility than anything else.
The highlights I saw were as follows:
Théodore holding the fort;
Rivet cleanly out-muscling and laying out Ya$hin; nice to see;
Théodore holding the fort;
Gilmour missing on a breakaway;
Théodore holding the fort;
The Islanders swarmming to an 18-0 shots on goal lead before the Habs registered a shot;
Théodore holding the fort;
Mike Ribeiro with a hummer of a wristshot; nice shot, Mike.
Oh yeah, Théodore holding the fort.
The Senators/Flyers game was a good one. Lalime looked incredible; just check out the highlight reels. Mike Fisher should be in Montreal.
Cheers.
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Post by AH on Dec 23, 2002 22:31:51 GMT -5
This game was probably the worst thing that could have happenned leading into the Xmas break. I mean, not only do we have no games to watch, but there are no practices, no news, no rumours, no trades (deadline ends only on the 27th), all we have is a lot of frustration ... why b/c the team once again fails to pay 60 minutes. oh well, we should be used to it, seeing how we all lived with unfinished business / frustration after what happenned at the end of last year's playoffs ... ah, just need to keep my mind occupied for a few days ... but what to do what to do
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 23, 2002 22:32:00 GMT -5
MT's comments:
''Nous avons eu des occasions de profiter de notre avance mais en troisième, on a arrêté de patiner, a déclaré Therrien. On était sur les talons. Les Islanders ont élevé leur jeu en troisième et on n'a pas été capable de les contenir."
"C'est difficile d'expliquer ce qui s'est passé dans les 20 dernières minutes de jeu. On a arrêté de patiner tout simplement."
"On se doit d'oublier cette défaite rapidement. Le congé de Noël arrive à point."
''Tough to explain what happened in the 3rd''....hmmmmmmmmm...........did the team just decide the x-mas break was coming and the game was in the bag or did they quit on MT?
Dis, you forgot ''Theodore holding the fort'' ;D lol
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Post by 24andcounting on Dec 23, 2002 22:37:01 GMT -5
Mike Fisher should be in Montreal. Precisely Dis, but we're going to have to get in line with a whole wack of other teams. When the Sens got swept a couple of years ago by the Leafs in the playoffs, Fisher was the only guy out there skating and hitting.
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Post by BadCompany on Dec 23, 2002 22:38:29 GMT -5
So instead of using a fairly mobile guy with a good shot in the dying minutes of a game (in a game that we're not taking enough shots in anyways, like THREE in the third), we're icing Traverse. And then switch him up with our ringer Rivet. Absolutely freaking brilliant. Actually, I thought Hainsey was being used very wisely tonight. It was a close game, a tight game, and the last thing you want is for your rookie defenseman to be making a mistake and costing you the game. Not just because you lose the game, but because it destroys his confidence. Right now, Hainsey is probably thinking "I had an okay game, made a mistake when the puck bounced over my stick at the line, but that was more bad luck than anything else, I probably could have helped them a lot more if I had of played more." The alternative could have been "Damn! I wish I hadn't coughed up the puck at the blueline, and cost us the game! I suck at this level!" Big difference. He was paired with Rivet, he got decent ice time for his first game back, he played (sort of) within his limitations, and he looked okay in limited ice time. Perfect, in my opinion. This was a road game, remember, and the Isles had last change. You don't want him caught out there against the Yashin line... I actually thought just after the tying goal was scored it would have been a good time for a time out. They were getting swarmed. And yet Therrien just kept sending Ribeiro's line out and Audette instead of Kilger. You let them settle down. Take a blow for 30 seconds. Remind everybody how important this point is. They've come too far, etc, etc,. Then go with Kilger/Koivu/Zed, Lindsay/Bulis/Dackell and Gilmour/Perreault/Mckay the rest of the way. But to just let the swarming continue was bad coaching. You have a timeout. Use it. There were a few times in that 3rd period, when I thought Therrien should have used a timeout. I guess he was saving it for the last minute of play, when his brilliant tactical genius could be demonstrated, what with a last minute, off-the-cuff play design. If Lou can fire a coach with a winning record 10 games before the playoffs, why can't Savard do the same ? Andre Savard is not Lou Lamoriello. Lamoriello took a HUGE risk, doing that, and at that time many people were questioning the move. Even though he is Lord Lou, if the Devils go out in the first round that year, he loses his job. It worked out great, and he looks like a genius, but Savard doesn't have the reputation or the clout to pull off such a gamble. What happens if Montreal loses 10 in a row, and misses the playoffs with the new coach? Savard isn't that big a gambler. Kilger was invisble tonight. Unfortunately, this is Kilger's MO. He has a reputation for going great for a little while, making people think he will finally live up to his 4th overall draft position, then he disappears. He did it in Chicago, he did it in Edmonton, and he did it when he first came here. Don't you remember how well he played those first few games after he was acquired? You'd be shocked how no one in the french media bashes MT. Thats a little simplistic there, Marc. What about Mattias Brunet's article? Or the Renaud Lavoie thing? Or Jacques Demers, who questions some of his moves? Or the whole "management handled the rat situation wrong, and lost the team" kerfuffel? Who, aside from Mitch Melnick and Pierre MacGuire, is against Therrien in the English media? Fisher? Hickey? Not even Todd yet. Its not a language thing.
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Post by TheHabsfan on Dec 23, 2002 22:39:02 GMT -5
"On se doit d'oublier cette défaite rapidement. Le congé de Noël arrive à point." Now this statement scares me. We need to forget this loss? WE NEED TO FORGET??? I think that you should make sure that people don't forget about this loss. There were a lot of mistakes in this game. Most were made by the coach. I still can't get over how much icetime Ribeiro's line got in the third....
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Post by Bobs_HABit on Dec 23, 2002 22:39:59 GMT -5
You got it right, Dis. And you can just imagine Koivu and Zed's reactions. Heaven forbid Audette ever gets a goal or two with Saku because they may remain joined at the hip for the rest of the season. I would love to see a breakdown along the lines of Koivu with Audette for minutes ?? goals Koivu with Kilger for minutes ?? goals Koivu with Czerkawski for minutes ?? goals and don't forget Koivu with Dackell for minutes ?? goals
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 23, 2002 22:41:24 GMT -5
Thats a little simplistic there, Marc. What about Mattias Brunet's article? Or the Renaud Lavoie thing? Or Jacques Demers, who questions some of his moves? Or the whole "management handled the rat situation wrong, and lost the team" kerfuffel? Who, aside from Mitch Melnick and Pierre MacGuire, is against Therrien in the English media? Fisher? Hickey? Not even Todd yet. Its not a language thing. The Brunet article never bashed MT...it only quoted ''sources'' that said the team had quit on him..he never bashed his decisions. Demers, I never listen to(too early in the morning on Team 990) but he never bashes MT on RDS it seems.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 23, 2002 22:47:47 GMT -5
Unfortunately, this is Kilger's MO. He has a reputation for going great for a little while, making people think he will finally live up to his 4th overall draft position, then he disappears. He did it in Chicago, he did it in Edmonton, and he did it when he first came here. Don't you remember how well he played those first few games after he was acquired? Yeah, but if it wasn't broken, why fiddle with it? I'm sure you remember what Savard said when he obtained Chad for (sigh) Sergei; "...we've obtained a solid 3rd-line player ..." Savard knew what he was getting. And now that he's adequately filling in on the first line, albeit for a short while, why tamper with an effective combination? Moreover, I remember you pointing out exactly what you're posting here now; Kilger starts out like a gangbuster, yadda, yadda, yadda, ... but this move just didn't make sense. BTW, check your hotmail account. Cheers.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 23, 2002 22:48:47 GMT -5
MT's comments:Dis, you forgot ''Theodore holding the fort'' ;D lol Must be getting old, Marc Cheers-la
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 23, 2002 22:49:15 GMT -5
wow 26 replies in barely an hour! a HabsRus record?
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Post by Yeti on Dec 23, 2002 22:56:33 GMT -5
I don't think it's a language thing either. The fact is Therrien and AS came in when the habs were in last place. People are still using that standard to judge AS and MT, although less and less it seems. The criterias has changed and it led to more criticisms of AS and MT, and rightly so.
But Therrien had no credibility when he started. Never played, or coached a single game in the NHL, had problem with his AHL players (that was well-documented, players didn't like him at all and there were rumours about his future in Quebec), and he's still, I think, the youngest NHL coach. Now 2 years later, articles are coming out about the fact that players don't respect him. That's the worst thing. You can hate a coach and at the same time respect him and his knowledge of the game (ex: Bowman is the best example). MT still has no credibility. It will take 5-6 years before he gets it, at least. It will never happen. Sorry, I'm just tired of seeing the habs acting like a day care centre.
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Post by 24andcounting on Dec 23, 2002 23:07:08 GMT -5
Actually, I thought Hainsey was being used very wisely tonight. It was a close game, a tight game, and the last thing you want is for your rookie defenseman to be making a mistake and costing you the game. Not just because you lose the game, but because it destroys his confidence. Right now, Hainsey is probably thinking "I had an okay game, made a mistake when the puck bounced over my stick at the line, but that was more bad luck than anything else, I probably could have helped them a lot more if I had of played more." The alternative could have been "Damn! I wish I hadn't coughed up the puck at the blueline, and cost us the game! I suck at this level!" Big difference. He was paired with Rivet, he got decent ice time for his first game back, he played (sort of) within his limitations, and he looked okay in limited ice time. Perfect, in my opinion. This was a road game, remember, and the Isles had last change. You don't want him caught out there against the Yashin line... BC, I see your point regarding Hainsey not being on the ice during the final minute (though I would have liked to have seen it). The fact remains, however, that Hainsey was benched for at least half the game. If that doesn't destroy one's confidence, I don't know what does. A rookie holding his breath that everytime he makes a mistake he'll be sitting on the bench, or worse, heading back to the farm is probably not the ideal atmosphere a coach should try to create. Breezy gave up the puck twice in the Sabres game, on mistakes much worse than Hainsey's tonight. But he never missed a shift. It's a good thing that MT doesn't treat all his players equally or else he'd have no one left to play.
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Post by HFTO on Dec 23, 2002 23:14:14 GMT -5
Start the petition Gainey and Robinson! HFTO
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