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Post by AH on Dec 13, 2002 11:27:38 GMT -5
as a 4th line center / specialist ?
Ok don't jump all over me. I know he is the second leading scorer on the team, but think about the following points:
- The current status of the second line is not putting fears in anyone's hearts. - For Gilmour to be completely effective, he needs to be playing Center. - The Douggie of last year's second half is back (you know that when you see him making a full effort at both ends of the rink). - We need speed on the second line (Hossa perhaps). - YP, although a good player, is too weak to be a second line center (physically and defensively). - YP as a Faceoff / Power Play specialist playing 13-14 minutes in situations he excels is not only good for the team, but also great for him (this can help him extend his career by 3 or 4 more years, a true J-F Sauve of the modern age). - This would allow the team to get Mike Ribeiro out of the lineup (do I need to remind some of you how much I hate this turd). Just a thought ...
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Post by AH on Dec 13, 2002 11:32:47 GMT -5
Oh yeah and one more thing ...
Perreault is a team player. I doubt he would complain about the situation if it was best for the team. And anyways, playing in purely offensive situations with very little defensive responsibilites, is probably a dream for a guy like him. ;D
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 13, 2002 11:49:34 GMT -5
Perreault is the kind of player who helps out bad/mediocre/average teams on the top 2 lines but if you want to build a cup contending team, this guy simply can't be a top 2 center on your team. And he doesn't fit on any other line or role. You can't really have him on a 4th line because it makes him useless(say you have a grinding 4th line).
Sort of like the same thing for Audette, Petrov and Czerkawski. Guys who can score on mediocre teams with alot of ice time(Like Chow did on the Island, Audette with ATL and Petrov with us), but if you want to win the big prize, you can't possibly think of having them in key top 6 forward roles.
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Post by TheHabsfan on Dec 13, 2002 15:10:55 GMT -5
Agreed. Perreault is a good faceoff man and has offensive flashes, but you can't count on him to carry the team to the next level. Unfortunately, you can't sit him. Solution? Trade him. In order to get to the next level, we need to get a bigger second line. Possible course of action would be to move Gilmour to center the third line. They get lots of ice time and I am sure he would be happy. Next, we need to get a big mobile centerman for the second line, a Rolston type player. Move Bulis to the second line and bring up Hossa. Our team would look like this: Zednick - Koivu - Kilger Bulis - (Rolston type center) - Hossa Juneau - Gilmour - Dackall Lindsay - Ward - Mckay Markov - Rivet Brisebois - Hainsey Quintal - BIG D (new acquisition) Bouillon Hackett Theodore (until he gets his act together) Get rid of: Perreault Petrov Ribeiro Dykhuis Traverse I would like to keep Petrov, but in order to improve, we need to sacrifice a few soldiers. Once Theo gets his act together, and I believe he will, we can trade Hackett at the deadline and call up Garon. If there are no takers for Hack, I would be more than happy to keep him. He is saving us right now! Lets not forget that. Cheers, TheHabsfan
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 13, 2002 17:21:34 GMT -5
well, the big center problem is something that doesn't really need to be solved ASAP but eventually it will have to be solved.
Koivu will be fine in the number 1 hole...we just need a big nasty 2nd line center who can score 60-70 points for us..
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Post by PTH on Dec 13, 2002 18:44:54 GMT -5
as a 4th line center / specialist ? For sure. We'd also be better off with Lidstrom, Blake, Foote and Chris Philips on the blueline. So what ? Basically, everyone here assumes Gilmour will be gone next year. Is this really the time to count on him for a key role - it would mean that next year we would have Koivu, who remains injury-prone, and Juneau would be the second center, and really, nothing else to write home about. OK, do you want Hossa, or do you not want Perreault ? Having Hossa as a 2nd line winger and having Perreault at center aren't mutually exclusive ideas. OK, this is where I disagree most. "too weak" ? He's putting up the numbers, what more do you expect ? The guy isn't the prototypical #2 center, and we could definitely use an upgrade, but is it really a priority ? I think we have several more pressing needs. Yeah, players love seeing their ice time cut back. Ironically enough, trying to push Ribeiro away would lead to him having a bigger role, if YP isn't #2 center next season, odds are it's Mike.
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Post by PTH on Dec 13, 2002 18:48:51 GMT -5
Agreed. Perreault is a good faceoff man and has offensive flashes, but you can't count on him to carry the team to the next level. Unfortunately, you can't sit him. Solution? Trade him. In order to get to the next level, we need to get a bigger second line. Possible course of action would be to move Gilmour to center the third line. They get lots of ice time and I am sure he would be happy. Next, we need to get a big mobile centerman for the second line, a Rolston type player. Move Bulis to the second line and bring up Hossa. Our team would look like this: Zednick - Koivu - Kilger Bulis - (Rolston type center) - Hossa Juneau - Gilmour - Dackall Lindsay - Ward - Mckay Markov - Rivet Brisebois - Hainsey Quintal - BIG D (new acquisition) Bouillon Hackett Theodore (until he gets his act together) Get rid of: Perreault Petrov Ribeiro Dykhuis Traverse I would like to keep Petrov, but in order to improve, we need to sacrifice a few soldiers. Once Theo gets his act together, and I believe he will, we can trade Hackett at the deadline and call up Garon. If there are no takers for Hack, I would be more than happy to keep him. He is saving us right now! Lets not forget that. Cheers, TheHabsfan Several objections. Perreault has a no-trade clause. Perreault is a happy, productive home-town boy who took a lesser contract (or increased taxes compared to an equal offer out of CHI) to come home. Moving him is very, very hard to justify - and you have to justify it given his no-trade clause, ie, to get rid of him, you have to make life bad enough here for him to want to leave. You also do one thing I hate - take the roster, and magically take out players - it just doesn't work like that. And you forgot AS's two major goofs - Chow and Audette.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Dec 13, 2002 22:27:39 GMT -5
Perrault is doing the job. Hackett is doing the job. Why do the posters want to trade the only guys who are getting the job done.
Makes no sense. How about sending Perrault to Hamilton so they can make a run at the cup. In fact send the whole team down and bring up the Bulldogs for a couple of games.
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Post by montreal on Dec 13, 2002 23:11:25 GMT -5
Perrault is doing the job. Hackett is doing the job. Why do the posters want to trade the only guys who are getting the job done. Makes no sense. How about sending Perrault to Hamilton so they can make a run at the cup. In fact send the whole team down and bring up the Bulldogs for a couple of games. Most likely cause Perreault sucks. Yes I know he scores goals, good for him. How bout those times he doesn't skate hard to backcheck, or he falls down in his own end cause a player farted on him. I mean a strong wind will knock him off the puck. At least he's improving his +/-, as it's no longer a team worst -7. We can't trade him, but he should be benched for a few road games since he doesnt bother to show up during most of those games anyway. I do like him better then Chow/Dykhuis/Audette, but he sucks so bad in his own end, I watched Alex Tanguay out muscle Perreault the other night, and McAmond too which cost us a goal. As for Hackett. Fine keep him, then when the summer comes, we will get a draft pick when he signs with another team.
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Post by PTH on Dec 14, 2002 1:44:49 GMT -5
Perrault is doing the job. Hackett is doing the job. Why do the posters want to trade the only guys who are getting the job done. 'Cause the WRONG guys are getting it done, Theo is supposed to be our superstar, and we have to make room for that big #2 center everyone expects us to get any day now.... *sigh*
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Post by FormerLurker on Dec 14, 2002 10:49:28 GMT -5
The problem with using a slow, soft, defensive liability to center the second line is that we can't use one of our soft RWers with him. There's really only one spot for Czerkawski, Petrov, and Audette, and that's to Koivu's right.
If we had a player who could put up similar offensive numbers to Perreault while taking care of his own end and adding some size, then we could get away with using one of the RW clones on the second line.
People talk about Perreault's no-trade clause, but I have never seen it documented anywhere. I have done extensive google searches in both languages, and I have never found it. Could someone please point me to some documented evidence?
I agree with Marc's statement that Perreault is a nice player on a bad/average team. Could we get a low second or high third round pick for him? Could we package Zednik and this pick for Radek Bonk?
I'd hate to give up Zed, but his value has never been higher. How does this lineup look?
Kilger/Koivu/Audette Bulis/Bonk/Czerkawski (BBC line?) Hossa/Juneau/Dackell Lindsay/Gilmour/McKay
With Bonk centering the second line, there's a lot more flexibility. You could try Ribeiro to his left, or any one of Audette, Chow, and Petrov to his right. By subtracting two players (Zed and Perreault) and adding one, a roster spot is freed up, so you could call up Hossa or Ward, or a seventh defenseman.
Koivu/Bonk/Juneau/Gilmour, that's looking pretty good up the middle. Next year replace Gilmour with Gratton, and the following year Juneau gets pushed out by Plekanec or Higgins.
Ottawa want a youngish impact player in return for Bonk, one they can afford, but they sure don't need a defenseman. Zednik fits the bill. He's the same age as Bonk and costs 1.5mln less, and now they have room for Spezza. Zednik/Spezza/Hossa, that could be one of the best lines in the league for a long time.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 14, 2002 12:06:44 GMT -5
Zednik+ for Bonk no offence, but look at Bonk's career playoff record! ..Zednik is clutch... as for Perreault's no trade clause...I had a thread about it with an article from LaPresse saying Brisebois and Perreault were the only 2 Habs with no trade clauses. If I was at home I would look for it but being at my cottage means a slower connection so it would take loads of time to find it.
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