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Post by clear observer on Dec 10, 2002 11:12:03 GMT -5
An in-depth breakdown of the Habs' current woes and possible solutions...fantastic work Peter! In any organization you have to take a step back and analyze the reasons that there is failure or worse yet, crisis. The Hab’s may be a legend but they are no different from any other organization. ... MORE
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 10, 2002 11:31:36 GMT -5
Excellent article.
Only 1 point, When Koivu came back the habs had won 6 in arrow already....
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Post by montreal on Dec 10, 2002 11:57:06 GMT -5
Yes good article. Thats how I feel. Therrien is a stop gap, the same way, Gilmor, Audette, Chow, Quintal, ect... are. Were a few years away, but headed in the right direction. MT isn't taking us to the promise land, but until someone that is better suited for this team, or more the future team (do we want MT, Green coaching our young players? Higgins, Komi, Hossa, Balej, Ferland ect...)
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Post by Habsolutely on Dec 10, 2002 12:07:14 GMT -5
I respect what the author did and the article is very well-written, but it's way too negative.
Don't forget that this team was a deep down mess just 2 years ago. It takes time to rebuild a franchise who lacked pure talent,. NHL depth and prospects.. which some fans still fail to realize.
As for considering that building with veterans is the easiest decision.. think again. It's the contrary in my book.
With the situation that the Habs faced 2 years ago, the easiest decision would have been to completly give up and try to get as many first round picks as possible for years to come.
However, André Savard didn't think that way. Not only he wants to win now... but he wants also to build his team towards the draft.. which is very risky considering that the more you wanna win, the less chances you will be able to draft the best players.. but to have this mentality, you need to have plenty of confidence in yourself and your scouts. Which is why I respect Savard for that, in particular.
As far as I know, our team, with all those overpaid veterans like you say, not only was 5 games over ,500 last year, but this year, we are also over ,500. And all of that, despite Theodore, the reigning MVP and Vezina winner, struggling big time.
I trully believe that all those veterans are here to give time to our prospects.. one by one.. to be able to increase their talent and confidence downstairs and then, to be able to crack the big lineup.
It's certainly not the time to push the panic button.. we are not a Stanley Cup contender.. and we were not a Cup contender before Savard took over.. so don't expect anytime soon to see Savard resign.. he'll be here for a long time.. very long time. And when he'll resign or retire.. he'll do it with a few stanley cup rings with the Habs logo around his fingers.
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Post by PTH on Dec 10, 2002 12:44:06 GMT -5
Generally agree, other than the fact that I think blame is placed too squarely on MT and not enough on the makeup of the team he was given.
Could anyone make Perreault, Audette, Petrov and Chow play a system ?
Could anyone build a cohesive 2nd line out of the spare parts he has ?
And the defense is almost entirely Houle-acquired, which says it all....
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Dec 10, 2002 13:11:53 GMT -5
Could anyone build a cohesive 2nd line out of the spare parts he has ? Bulis/Gilmour/Petrov
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 10, 2002 15:31:25 GMT -5
Or Bulis/Gilmour/Chow........
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 10, 2002 16:00:15 GMT -5
Nice job, Peter. Thanks.
I like your opinion on Therrien's approach to coaching. He had a reputation as a butt-kicker while in junior and in the minors. I don't know if we've seen as much of the authorative approach as we've been lead to believe. If he has, it certainly hasn't been all that public. But it may very well explain whey les good guys don't play for him from time to time. You can only kick a$$ so long before the veterans start rebelling and when they do, your team is affected overall.
Another junior authoritarian tried the same approach in Long Island. As a result, Brian Kilray (sp) wound up back in Ottawa behind the 67's bench. That wasn't so bad actually; he's the winningest coach in junior history right now I believe.
I guess what it boils down to is, while authoritarianism motivates youngsters, it usually has a detrimental affect on veterans if not applied correctly.
Did the playoffs hurt us? Well, you make a good arguement there I have to admit. The only reason we did as well in the playoffs as we did last year was because of Théodore; that's it that's all. Don't get me wrong, we scored some timely goals when we had to, but generally speaking, we were outshot in just about every game and Théo was there to shut the door. Did that hurt the team; yes, but as you point out, not directly. That minor success influence Savard's decisions and, well, we still have realatively the same core of players, more specifically, defensemen.
Now, don't get me wrong, Peter, I think the season-ending winning streak was the result of solid goaltending and the hard work and desire of a great many. But, where is this effort now? Again, they are basically the same guys as last year. Confusing? Maybe not so much.
Honestly, what would a new coach do for le club? I honestly think the new blood would be welcome by most in the dressing room. But, make no mistake. PTH pointed out that Savard might just be a micromanager (I don't know for sure, I mean who does) and if this is so, it won't matter who they bring in as coach, Savard will have to step aside regardless if he feels he's making a difference or not.
Anyway, that's my amateur opinion. Thanks again. Cheers.
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Post by Viper on Dec 10, 2002 17:43:34 GMT -5
Great work HA as always.
This is the simplest yet most complete summary of the situation possible i think (you definately have a way with words that i hope to have when i'm in my 80's that's for sure. ;D) hopefully we start to see some action soon because personally i'm not looking forward to where the mundane will place us.
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Post by UberCranky on Dec 10, 2002 18:59:01 GMT -5
I guess what it boils down to is, while authoritarianism motivates youngsters, it usually has a detrimental affect on veterans if not applied correctly. Certainly does, Dis. We read last year that Therrien was "consulting" with Gilmour and others. In my opinion, he may have been looking for support and approval more then their opinion. Any NHL level coach who needs to have approval and support for his decisions is doomed. Did Scotty ask any of his Superstars their opinion? Or did he expect things done his way? Same thing for Hitchcock. He told Hull to backcheck and play defensively or stay home. What about Lemaire? Therrien is not good enough vor the Hab's but replacing him is not worth it unless there is someone else that is better.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Dec 10, 2002 20:40:36 GMT -5
I can only furiously nod in agreement.
What can I say, you must be right because I feel the same way!!!
Good job Peter
Thanks
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Dec 10, 2002 20:49:57 GMT -5
Certainly does, Dis. We read last year that Therrien was "consulting" with Gilmour and others. In my opinion, he may have been looking for support and approval more then their opinion. Any NHL level coach who needs to have approval and support for his decisions is doomed. Right! Any leader, let alone a NHL coach, who searches for approval for his decisions fails to become a leader any longer as he is relying on others to provide him with the emotional security he is looking for. Am I safe in assuming that a leader who employs this method is a tad unsure of himself? I can acknowledge the experience Gilmour brings to le club, but this type of situation may not sit well with other established players on the team. The perception that Gilmour has been elevated over and above those same established players. Not good for morale at all. But, it wasn't only Therrien who sought council from Killer from what I understand. Savard had Gilmour in behind closed doors on more than one occasion. I'm not saying Gilmour has any devine status, but again, the perceptions could be devistating. Then again, this all suposition on my part. The scenario is plausible, but who knows what the real story is. The heck if I know. Cheers.
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