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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Dec 4, 2002 7:26:49 GMT -5
Thinks Kilger has talent but "falls asleep" and that's why he's been moved from club to club.
On Czerk, yesterday, he compared the obvious "effort" that Audette is giving to Czerk's performance and said that this is why Czerk has moved from team to team.
Demers is a nice guy but in terms of analysis you may as well give a microphone and a crate of bannanas to a baboon and record the proceedings.
Does it not occur to Demers that maybe Chad's actually been under-utilized at a sporadic 7:30 a game? That guys have a hard time playing where they know that they'll be scratched the following game if they take a penalty? Or that they might be benched the following game for no reason at all? Or that they'll be benched the following game because some lazy-ass veteran needs his reps and his ice? Does it not occur to Demers that maybe Therrien loses players for arbitrarily sitting them and leaving them sitting for ridiculuous and humiliatingly long stretches while other, often less effective players are in the lineup? It's really frustrating to hear guys like Mcguire and Demers miss such a glaring and obvious explanations for these problems only to instead trot out the same old, hackneyed, tired platitudes about guys going out there and playing with emotion. Like Quintal, Gilmour, Audette and Mckay have shown that kind of emotion? Give me a huge break.
If we lose Kilger I'm going to pissed. The idea that Czerk is out there on waivers (after we gave up Asham and a 5th for him) because our coach has mexican blood sausage between his ears is bad enough.....What a freaking waste.....And we'll end up with Audette at the end of the day. If Czerk went to L.A. tomorrow he'd score 20 goals the rest of the way.....And Kilger could and should be playing 14 minutes a night on the third line here, but instead he'll blossom elsewhere....People here complain about Ward and Ribeiro not getting chances. but the problems are more immediate than that....
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 4, 2002 8:27:24 GMT -5
Audette is giving an effort and here I was thinking Demers was one of the better hockey guys in the media.. Jeez, what is the love in WITH RATDOG. As far as I am concerned, he should be sent to jail for ''stealing'' 3 million per year. As for Kilger, he can definitely be a solid defensive forward who can kill penalties. Nothing huge, but a valuable role player.
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Post by JacquesInFL on Dec 4, 2002 11:16:36 GMT -5
I read that too. Considering his level of access with the club, Jacques D generally says very little of interest. And, often, Demers sugars his observations (they rarely seem sturdy enough to call 'opinions' which he would need to defend for smarter hockey audience like Habsrus) for his audience.
What is Demers' explanation for the burned bridges in Audette's rearviewmirror? Ratdog was always team first, no?? Coming down on Kilger seems misguided since Therrien has no capacity to define Chad's role or utilise his assets (I mean, he's under 30, skate well and play defense so that naturally disqualifies him for quality minutes handed to Donald and Killer with no questions asked).
In support of Jacques, he knows hockey far better than most hacks covering the club. For me, I think there is a greater void of hockey expertise in the English media, particularly in the Gazette.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 4, 2002 11:55:53 GMT -5
Just wondering, does anyone have Kilger's PPG average when he plays with Koivu?
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 4, 2002 12:44:11 GMT -5
Great Fisher story on Kilger www.canada.com/montreal/sports/teams/canadiens/story.html?id={2E3D10EF-421E-416F-A324-F21EF0BB1E02}A case of wait and see Three habs in limbo. Czerkawski, Kilger and Blouin sit again RED FISHER The Gazette Wednesday, December 04, 2002 There was a moment after yesterday's Canadiens practice when Mariusz Czer-kawski, who has delivered a "play me or trade me" edict to management, settled into a seat beside Chad Kilger, yet another player who has been sitting out as a healthy scratch on a semi-regular basis. Czerkawski has drawn the short straw five times this season; Kilger on six occasions. What followed was a hurried, whispered conversation between the two, with Czerkawski, a high-priced scratch for four of the last six games, doing most of the talking. The reason: Kilger, a scratch for two of the last four games, and Czerkawski were on a line with Sylvain Blouin, who hasn't dressed for six of the last seven games. Bottom line: there's every reason to believe that the Small Three are sitting tonight against the Dallas Stars (8:30 p.m., RDS, CJAD Radio-800). Later, Czerkawski was surrounded by media people handling a blizzard of questions about his status. Yes, he'd love to remain with the Canadiens. No, he didn't expect to play - again. Yes, if he doesn't, that's another nail in the coffin in terms of his future with the boo-blanc-rouge. Czerkawski's mindset remains the same: play me or trade me. Not so Kilger. He sits there, a small smile playing at the corners of his mouth: "It looks like I'll be sitting, but what can I do about it?" he asked. "I can't make decisions for him (coach Michel Therrien)," Kilger added. "I still plan to work hard. I can control only what I can control. I can't control anything else. It's not as if I haven't been there before. When I was in Edmonton, I sat for 35 games. (coach) Kevin Lowe ... well, I still worked hard. I was ready to play. I didn't." You should know that Kilger is everything the Canadiens aren't. Big. Strong. A player with thunder in his bodychecks. A guy who can crash the net. On a team that has so many of the same kind of small players with wings on their feet, Kilger towers over most of them. Trouble is, Kilger's 18 games have produced zero goals and three assists. So he sits. While Czerkawski remains frustrated about his situation, Kilger remains determined to be ready when he gets the call, whenever that happens. He's made up his mind that "if" doesn't enter the equation. He's even been able to find a smidgen of humour in his enforced absence from the lineup.
"I hear you're on the first line in the next game," was the message from a veteran reporter on the charter flight to Dallas.
"You think so," Kilger replied with a smile that stretched from earlobe to earlobe. "With what team?"
That's Kilger. That's the big man who has all of the tools to provide what appears to be lacking in the Canadiens' quest for winning consistently - yet somehow has failed to convince his employers he's the right man for the job.
"Right now, his mind is a little mixed up," said goaltender Jeff Hackett, who shares a room with Kilger on the road. "Like the rest of us, he wants to play, but that won't stop him from working as hard as anybody can. We're very close, so I can tell you he's a special guy in a lot of ways."
One way is that Kilger, as a youngster, competed in a mini-triathlon, and his love for that type of competition still burns brightly. "I'm definitely going to compete in a triathlon (running, cycling and swimming) when I'm through playing," Kilger said yesterday. "It's only then that I can tackle the specialized training a guy needs for that event. For example, I can use a lot more work on my swimming." He thought about it for a moment, then laughed quietly: "All I need right now is a pool at the Bell Centre!" One from the road: Cream pie-in-the-face stuff is a cliché in the games hockey millionaires play. So it was that fitness-and-strength coach Scott Livingston was yesterday's victim early in the Canadiens' practice at a suburban rink. Coach Therrien led the entire team to the boards and shook hands with his man. Equipment manager Pierre Gervais was the Pie Guy. Splat! Reporter: "I'm surprised that a guy with your experience would fall for a thing like that?" Livingston: "Sometimes, you let things happen!" Kilger is the kind of guy you need to show confidence in before he shows confidence. You can see the guy has no confidence in himself. Very similar to Eric Chouinard in that aspect IMO.
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Post by montreal on Dec 4, 2002 16:13:22 GMT -5
What a bunch of crap. Chad, I got an ideal for you, if you want to stay in the lineup, play better. When he has played, he's not finishing his checks. He has to be out there hitting everything, and he's not. Yes Kilger is our biggest forward, but he's not doing his job, so he sits. He's been benched, and when he's been put back in the lineup, he doesn't play like a player that just sat out 4 games. He doesn't seem to have the fire in him, he had before. Go head, blame Therrien, cause that's who everyone wants to blame it on, sure it cann't be poor Chad's fault that he isn't working very hard out there.
As for Chow, I never saw him put in a good effort in any game, but Audette hasn't been much better. They both suck, and I cant wait till there both gone.
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Post by zenseeker on Dec 4, 2002 16:29:47 GMT -5
Contrary to what Montreal said i believe their is alot of truth in that article. Kilger is a class guy who works hard and when given chances produces. By chances i mean solid ice time, not 5 min a game. If Kilger was on another team we would be dreaming up trades of how to get this underutilized player on our team. I'm hoping Dumb and Dumber give their heads a shake and start using Kilger to his potential.
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Post by montreal on Dec 4, 2002 16:35:28 GMT -5
Contrary to what Montreal said i believe their is alot of truth in that article. Kilger is a class guy who works hard and when given chances produces. By chances i mean solid ice time, not 5 min a game. If Kilger was on another team we would be dreaming up trades of how to get this underutilized player on our team. I'm hoping Dumb and Dumber give their heads a shake and start using Kilger to his potential. Give me a break. I've seen every game Kilger has played. If you play only 2 minutes, you have to play hard for all 2 minutes. He is not doing that. Maybe you have seen something, I haven't, but to me, Kilger isn't working hard. If you want to point out a certain game where you thought that Kilger was out there hitting everything, playing like his skates were on fire, then please do, maybe my memory isn't so good. But from what I have seen he hasn't been the Kilger that was first traded here. Go ahead blame the coach, cause Poor Chad is only getting 5 minutes, so he might as well take it easy during those 5 minutes, until we cave in and give him 15 minutes, then he'll work hard. It's easy to blame the coach, but why not blame Chad Kilger?
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Dec 4, 2002 16:54:48 GMT -5
I don't think I've ever seen Kilger have a really dreadful game in a Habs uniform. Even this year, most of the games I've watched that he's appeared in I was just shaking my head wondering why he wasn't playing 15 minutes instead of 7. Does anybody remember the job he did shadowing Thornton last year? That's what he's capable of. People think if he's not pounding people into submission (not his kind of hitting, anyway) that he's doing nothing. I don't see it that way. I see him playing sound positionally, cutting off passing lanes, being relatively physically and generating the odd scoring chance. This is a player we could really, really use and we're not using him. If Lindsay plays 8 minutes a night I won't complain, but Chad playing 7 minutes and then sitting for three games while we get outmuscled by Philly, Dallas and St. Louis is just a perverse joke.
And by the way, for people who want Chad to earn his way back into the lineup by going out there and pounding anything that moves, I would remind them that there's no quicker way to end up in Therrien's pressbox than by taking a penalty if you're Chad Kilger. Get the guy involved, get him a regular shift on the third (we need Bulis up front) and you'll get your money's worth. This! This is what I call "bad asset management" (a despicable and loathesome phrase, I know).
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Post by zenseeker on Dec 4, 2002 16:59:36 GMT -5
I haven't seen every game he has played, but i have seen most of them. I thought his first benching for that long stretch was totally unwarranted. He played solid in a few of the first games before his benching. If you want more info go look at the previous game logs from the start of the season. When he came back from the pressbox i thought he was making the extra effort to finish his checks which was not always shown from the poor camera angles of the game. This was done while getting ultra limited ice-time. To an extent you are right that he has to take some of the blame on himself, but again in his defense he is a hard worker and doesn't complain like some of the others on this team. It would be also hard to maintain your confidence when you benched for a long period of time when you shouldn't have been. Then when you do come back your getting paltry ice-time and are again benched. MT also seems only to notice what he wants to notice, that is the only way i can justify some of the decisions he makes. Ohh well what can we do, I hope they find a way to use Kilger, because he is precisely what we need.
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Post by montreal on Dec 4, 2002 17:11:49 GMT -5
I don't think I've ever seen Kilger have a really dreadful game in a Habs uniform. Even this year, most of the games I've watched that he's appeared in I was just shaking my head wondering why he wasn't playing 15 minutes instead of 7. Does anybody remember the job he did shadowing Thornton last year? That's what he's capable of. People think if he's not pounding people into submission (not his kind of hitting, anyway) that he's doing nothing. I don't see it that way. I see him playing sound positionally, cutting off passing lanes, being relatively physically and generating the odd scoring chance. This is a player we could really, really use and we're not using him. If Lindsay plays 8 minutes a night I won't complain, but Chad playing 7 minutes and then sitting for three games while we get outmuscled by Philly, Dallas and St. Louis is just a perverse joke. And by the way, for people who want Chad to earn his way back into the lineup by going out there and pounding anything that moves, I would remind them that there's no quicker way to end up in Therrien's pressbox than by taking a penalty if you're Chad Kilger. Get the guy involved, get him a regular shift on the third (we need Bulis up front) and you'll get your money's worth. This! This is what I call "bad asset management" (a despicable and loathesome phrase, I know). I don't agree at all. I haven't seen him play hard at all. It would be great if he went out and hit everything, but I don't see him hitting anyone. He's not finishing his checks, he can't do anything at all on offence, so its not like he's some great player that for some unknown reason our coach just refuses to play, even though Kilger is so good. When Chad gets put back in the lineup, I want to see him play hard, and make some good hits. I most have my eyes closed, cause when he does play, I don't see that.
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Post by zenseeker on Dec 4, 2002 17:18:06 GMT -5
You have the right to your opinion. We must agree to disagree, and by judging on your opinion of AS we will end up with this result lots.
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Post by JacquesInFL on Dec 4, 2002 17:44:16 GMT -5
I see Demers backing the party line (ie Therrien and probably mangement): Chad is unfocused; he's not agressive; he's not consistent, etc.
This way of explaining personnel decisions is like repeating something or anything you have heard a few times -- yes, the club is outplayed most nights so the bums in the pressbox earned there way up there. Unfortunately, this is not a great recipe for identifying problems or solving problems.
Chad played good games when start the season on the 4th line, I recall him and Bulis being very noticeable out there together. He looked good with Lindsay and McKay a few times. He did his job on the 1st line when Zednik was sick against NJ. So now we see Ribs is back from his injury and there is some rationale for Mike playing. And, well, Lindsay (and you think Lindsay is hitting everything that moves this season?) is one of Therrien's favourites (remember, Bulis started drawing the short straw last March when Wild Bill came to town) so he plays every other game. McKay is not going to sit in the pressbox. So it's a numbers game now. That is what is boils down to. There is no objective evidence that tells us Kilger has played with less determination than his confused, divided mates on most nights.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 4, 2002 17:47:04 GMT -5
I(remember, Bulis started drawing the short straw last March when Wild Bill came to town) Well, that was 2 things. Bulis missed an empty netter in Carolina with us leading 1-0 late in the 3rd. Canes tie it. Days later we get Bill. Knowning MT, Bulis would have been scratched anyways, but getting Wild Bill made the decision that much easier
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Dec 4, 2002 18:39:10 GMT -5
There is no objective evidence that tells us Kilger has played with less determination than his confused, divided mates on most nights. That's exactly it. It's the lies that kill me. I can't handle the lies. If they just said "because" or "it's the way it is because that's the way it is", I swear it wouldn't bug me as much.
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Post by montreal on Dec 4, 2002 18:59:26 GMT -5
I see Demers backing the party line (ie Therrien and probably mangement): Chad is unfocused; he's not agressive; he's not consistent, etc. This way of explaining personnel decisions is like repeating something or anything you have heard a few times -- yes, the club is outplayed most nights so the bums in the pressbox earned there way up there. Unfortunately, this is not a great recipe for identifying problems or solving problems. Chad played good games when start the season on the 4th line, I recall him and Bulis being very noticeable out there together. He looked good with Lindsay and McKay a few times. He did his job on the 1st line when Zednik was sick against NJ. So now we see Ribs is back from his injury and there is some rationale for Mike playing. And, well, Lindsay (and you think Lindsay is hitting everything that moves this season?) is one of Therrien's favourites (remember, Bulis started drawing the short straw last March when Wild Bill came to town) so he plays every other game. McKay is not going to sit in the pressbox. So it's a numbers game now. That is what is boils down to. There is no objective evidence that tells us Kilger has played with less determination than his confused, divided mates on most nights. Well its hard to compare McKay and Kilger since they play different sides. I just think that management wants more of an effort, and they aren't getting it. I've heard the complaints about Chow, Hainsey, Kilger, but the thing is its not like these guys were playing so good but the big bad mean coach wants to lose so he took them out of the lineup. I just don't buy it. Its easy when you play, play better, and maybe you wont be sat out.
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Post by seventeen on Dec 5, 2002 0:30:43 GMT -5
Great Fisher story on Kilger "I can't make decisions for him (coach Michel Therrien)," Kilger added. "I still plan to work hard. I can control only what I can control. I can't control anything else. It's not as if I haven't been there before. When I was in Edmonton, I sat for 35 games. (coach) Kevin Lowe ... well, I still worked hard. I was ready to play. I didn't." Well here I am playing Freud again. I found the most interesting part of that whole story in the above phrase. Kilger didn't say "Coach Therrien" or "Coach" or "Michel Therrien", he said "him". I find that disrespectful. Notice that he referred to Lowe as Kevin Lowe, not Lowe. Not that I blame Kilger. Just as JV says, trying to figure out MT's reasons for sitting players is similiar to throwing confetti in the air and trying to catch it all again. Impossible. I said this a long time ago. When you get punished for doing the right things, you stop doing the right things, and then, of course you get criticized for not playing well and you get the press box.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 5, 2002 10:12:58 GMT -5
There is not one player on this Habs team who ever says anything good about MT.
Ever since the guy cost them game 4(or at least hurt them big time) of the Carolina series, they have tuned him out.
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