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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 3, 2002 19:27:22 GMT -5
Apparently, AS said something like ''we are tired of waiting for Ribs to come on and be a regular on this team...we have been waiting for 4 years''. Can anyone confirm this?
Jesus C what the hell is going through AS's mind these days. Of course Ribeiro is doing nothing, HE IS PLAYING ON THE 4TH LINE!!!!!!!!!!! what do you expect? it's not his fault we are loaded with a bunch of smurfs who are all similar to him but have something he doesn't(EXPERIENCE)
Watch out, AS may put Ribeiro on waivers as well!!
What a bad time to be a Habs fan right now.
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Post by Habsolutely on Dec 3, 2002 19:35:31 GMT -5
Disagree...
The only reason why Ribeiro is doing nothing is quite simple.. he simply doesn't have the jump and the physical strength to get it done.. it's just too logical when you watch him.
Look at Boguienecki who plays for the Blues.. the guy is 5'8 and doesn't weight a whole lot, but just the way he plays.. his enthousiam etc.. he makes things happen.. it's like he's playing his last game in every match.
Ribeiro plays (it's his style) like Mario Lemieux.. slow footed, doesn't rush anything, doesn't bring any big intensity.. it's not the way he likes to play.. but unfortunetly, it doesn't do him any good.
He's too easy to knock off the puck.. to easy to neutralize.. isn't any fast, can't win a faceoff, can't play defense, can't forecheck affectivily. Even on the power-play, he's not a safe bet out there.
It's too bad because the guy has vision.. because he has toooooo many flaws. And at 23, he doesn't seem to be able to improve on it.
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Post by KILLger on Dec 3, 2002 19:37:21 GMT -5
Apparently, AS said something like ''we are tired of waiting for Ribs to come on and be a regular on this team...we have been waiting for 4 years''. Can anyone confirm this? Jesus C what the hell is going through AS's mind these days. Of course Ribeiro is doing nothing, HE IS PLAYING ON THE 4TH LINE!!!!!!!!!!! what do you expect? it's not his fault we are loaded with a bunch of smurfs who are all similar to him but have something he doesn't(EXPERIENCE) Watch out, AS may put Ribeiro on waivers as well!! What a bad time to be a Habs fan right now. "Ça fait quatre ans qu'on entend le même langage à son sujet, a rétorqué Savard quand on lui a parlé de son cas (Ribs)" "Je le pensais arrivé à la Ligue nationale l'an dernier, mais il a finalement fallu le redescendre en bas (lire dans la LAH) "Il faut que l'équipe produise", a continué Savard. "Ça revient à dire que c'est Michel qui décide de l'utilisation des joueurs." "Il agit dans les intérêts de l'équipe. Ça fait quatre ans que l'histoire dure avec Ribeiro."
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Post by Viper on Dec 3, 2002 19:42:57 GMT -5
Disagree... The only reason why Ribeiro is doing nothing is quite simple.. he simply doesn't have the jump and the physical strength to get it done.. it's just too logical when you watch him. Look at Boguienecki who plays for the Blues.. the guy is 5'8 and doesn't weight a whole lot, but just the way he plays.. his enthousiam etc.. he makes things happen.. it's like he's playing his last game in every match. Ribeiro plays (it's his style) like Mario Lemieux.. slow footed, doesn't rush anything, doesn't bring any big intensity.. it's not the way he likes to play.. but unfortunetly, it doesn't do him any good. He's too easy to knock off the puck.. to easy to neutralize.. isn't any fast, can't win a faceoff, can't play defense, can't forecheck affectivily. Even on the power-play, he's not a safe bet out there. It's too bad because the guy has vision.. because he has toooooo many flaws. And at 23, he doesn't seem to be able to improve on it. so what makes Him different than half of our forward core nothing but time and experience we have Audette Petrov and other's who do the same thing basically AS is going insane. Chow never get's a legit shot to prove himself and now he's on waiver's The same for Ribiero slowly but surely Savard looks more and more goofy all the time.
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Post by Habsolutely on Dec 3, 2002 19:47:40 GMT -5
so what makes Him different than half of our forward core nothing but time and experience we have Audette Petrov and other's who do the same thing basically AS is going insane. Chow never get's a legit shot to prove himself and now he's on waiver's The same for Ribiero slowly but surely Savard looks more and more goofy all the time. First off, this information may not be true, second, yes.. Ribeiro isn't worth much.. the guy can't seem to play. As for how different he is, it's irrelevant because this is not the subject here.. If Ribeiro was any good.. he would have been at least a decent part of our young core along with Markov and Theodore.. but the guy doesn't seem to improve and can't follow the flow of the game.. it's just too easy to see. As for Savard, can you let him alone ? Everyone almost is screaming.. geez, the guy knows way better than anyone here.. so let him do his thing.. anyway, with almost every player struggling as for now, we can't expect to get a Lemieux or a Jagr anytime soon..
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Post by Viper on Dec 3, 2002 19:56:48 GMT -5
I think his similarities to the rest of the team is the point now isn't it. If he's not making the grade at the age of 23 on the 4th line after 3 games nobody is ever gonna make the grade on this team ever unless they all get hat tricks in their debut's.
When a guy like Audette can hang out on the top line and do nothing for 20 games it makes no sense to harp on a guy like ribs who hasn't had a chance to do a thing.
Regarding Savard he is still mediocre and getting more that way all the time ................
As for the 5 year plan and the patience i'll remind ya that the last full season of houle's regime got 83 points now 2 years later we have a healthy team with a ton of depth that is on pace for 85. things aren't much better beyond the farm and he's had 2 season's to fix the mess. Well the overabundance of right wings was Savard the hefty contract to Rivet was savard. The fact no rookies have a place in our lineup is Savard if he plans on building through the draft wouldn't it just make sense that he show a little more support to the youth instead of the old age home.
Anyhow this thread is about the comments by AS on Ribs which we're harsh considering the circumstances Ribs has been put in so there's another strike against the saint.
Habsolutely as long as i continue to post and savard continue's to be sub par i'll make my point known. I'm all for you defending him i have no problem with that just keep it civil and use solid evidence to prove the points and all will be fine. Who knows if you provide enough evidence i may change my mind but until i see some it won't.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 3, 2002 20:07:30 GMT -5
"Ça fait quatre ans qu'on entend le même langage à son sujet, a rétorqué Savard quand on lui a parlé de son cas (Ribs)" "Je le pensais arrivé à la Ligue nationale l'an dernier, mais il a finalement fallu le redescendre en bas (lire dans la LAH) "Il faut que l'équipe produise", a continué Savard. "Ça revient à dire que c'est Michel qui décide de l'utilisation des joueurs." "Il agit dans les intérêts de l'équipe. Ça fait quatre ans que l'histoire dure avec Ribeiro." Thanks alot!!! agggggggghhhhhh Excuses, excuses, excuses... Just watch them come up with some for Hainsey, Hossa, Ward and co when they recall Bouillon and Gratton instead
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 3, 2002 20:09:40 GMT -5
If Ribeiro was any good.. he would have been at least a decent part of our young core along with Markov and Theodore.. but the guy doesn't seem to improve and can't follow the flow of the game.. it's just too easy to see. . Tough to follow the flow of the game when you play with McKay and Lindsay!! and by the way didn't Ribeiro help us out BIG TIME last year when he played with Perreault and Zednik once Audette went down? Ribeiro is a talent, he may not fit in with this current team right now, but to give up on him and get nothing in return would be a bad move IMO
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Post by Habsolutely on Dec 3, 2002 20:13:15 GMT -5
I think his similarities to the rest of the team is the point now isn't it. If he's not making the grade at the age of 23 on the 4th line after 3 games nobody is ever gonna make the grade on this team ever unless they all get hat tricks in their debut's. When a guy like Audette can hang out on the top line and do nothing for 20 games it makes no sense to harp on a guy like ribs who hasn't had a chance to do a thing. Regarding Savard he is still mediocre and getting more that way all the time ................ As for the 5 year plan and the patience i'll remind ya that the last full season of houle's regime got 83 points now 2 years later we have a healthy team with a ton of depth that is on pace for 85. things aren't much better beyond the farm and he's had 2 season's to fix the mess. Well the overabundance of right wings was Savard the hefty contract to Rivet was savard. The fact no rookies have a place in our lineup is Savard if he plans on building through the draft wouldn't it just make sense that he show a little more support to the youth instead of the old age home. Anyhow this thread is about the comments by AS on Ribs which we're harsh considering the circumstances Ribs has been put in so there's another strike against the saint. Ribeiro had his chance.. in the past and in the present. Hockey people know when a player can play or not. When Ribeiro plays a 40 second shift, the management expects to see some positive out of him.. something that could mean greatness.. that could lead to a 50- 60 70 80 second shift the next time around.. What's up with Ribeiro ? Simple, as for now, how do you see which is so special with him ? You can't blame Savard or Therrien ( geez, I can't believe I'm defending him this time) when they use players like Petrov and Audette on a regular basis. Just last year, these guys were two of the biggest reasons why we had such a success in the regular season and in the playoffs.. so time is required for veteran players like them. I know it's frustrating.. myself I can't believe how struggling we are right now.. but I understand the management.. it's not easy to turn this situation around. And no, it's not by making trades for the fun of it that it will get better. Savard isn't getting mediocre.. you are just frustrated about this situation.. you can't let it go. Savard knows what he is doing. You can't blame Savard for not giving the kids a chance.. most of the kids who are basically here for years and who should be ready to contribute were Houle picks.. aka Ward, Chouinard, Ribeiro, ETCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCCC.. just Markov seemed to be the real deal. Hainsey and Hossa are still young enough and will be NHL'ers. As for Savard, he just started to draft since 2001.. and I trust his draft choices WAAAAY more than the Houles one. So before saying that he doesn't give chances to kids, just let see how good his OWN draft choices will be.
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Post by Habsolutely on Dec 3, 2002 20:18:58 GMT -5
Tough to follow the flow of the game when you play with McKay and Lindsay!! and by the way didn't Ribeiro help us out BIG TIME last year when he played with Perreault and Zednik once Audette went down? Ribeiro is a talent, he may not fit in with this current team right now, but to give up on him and get nothing in return would be a bad move IMO I understand what you say, but in my opinion, Ribeiro simply doesn't have it. He looks to slow out there.. even on the first line.. what will he do that would help Zeddy and Koivu ? Zednik and Koivu need a player who'll do the dirty job in the corners + in the offensive/defensive zone.. to be even better at even-strength. They don't need a guy who'll battles one-on-one, who can't forecheck, who can't even create a physical presence on the ice. If we would have got that type of player.. Zednik would lead the league in scoring as for now. Savard won't give Ribeiro for nothing.. but if what he said is true ( which I highly doubt), I don't blame him.. we are waiting for something positive to come out of Ribeiro..
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 3, 2002 20:21:49 GMT -5
I don't want Ribs out there with Koivu and Zed.
But, I think you could replace Gilmour with Ribs and you would see the same production at a cheaper price if not an improvement.
Like I said, I doubt Ribeiro fits in because we are too small, but I sure hope AS doesn't deal him for nothing
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Post by GoMtl on Dec 3, 2002 20:22:28 GMT -5
Ribeiro can be successful if paired with the right players. he needs a zednik type of scorer that he can set up, he's a play maker. it showed last season when they were playing together, ribs got 13 points in 16 games. i disagree with habsolutely when he says if ribeiro was any good he would be part of our young core with markov and theo. markov took until this year to become the player he is, and if i'm not mistaken both he and ribeiro are the same age, and given the way ribeiro was playing during pre season i think he could have really emerged as a good play maker and scorer if he didn't go down to injury, and was given the chance to play on a top two line.
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Post by KILLger on Dec 3, 2002 20:24:31 GMT -5
As for the 5 year plan and the patience i'll remind ya that the last full season of houle's regime got 83 points now 2 years later we have a healthy team with a ton of depth that is on pace for 85. things aren't much better beyond the farm and he's had 2 season's to fix the mess. Well the overabundance of right wings was Savard the hefty contract to Rivet was savard. The fact no rookies have a place in our lineup is Savard if he plans on building through the draft wouldn't it just make sense that he show a little more support to the youth instead of the old age home. The farm when Houle left (20 decent prospects over 5 years): 1996 44 G Mathieu Garon 71 R Arron Asham 181 L Timo Vertala 1997 11 R Jason Ward 122 D Gennady Razin 1998 16 C Eric Chouinard 45 C Mike Ribeiro 75 D Francois Beauchemin 162 D Andrei Markov 216 L Michael Ryder 1999 39 Alexander Buturlin 145 R Marc-Andre Thinel 150 D Matt Shasby 196 G Vadim Tarasov 253 L Jerome Marois 2000 13 D Ron Hainsey 16 C Marcel Hossa 78 R Josef Balej 114 C Christian Larrivee 243 G Joni Puurula Savard (13 decent over 2 years): 2001 7 D Mike Komisarek 25 F Alexander Perezhogin 37 R Duncan Milroy 71 F Tomas Plekanec 109 D Martti Jarventie 171 C Eric Himelfarb 203 D Andrew Archer 2002 14 Christopher Higgins 45 Tomas Linhart 99 C Michael Lambert 182 R Andre Deveaux 212 R Jonathan Ferland 275 Konstantin Korneyev
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 3, 2002 20:25:45 GMT -5
Markov is 23 with plenty of RSL experience. Ribs is 22 if you were wondering.
Ribeiro needs a Zednik type on his line...I agree with that...but Zed/Koivu are too good to break up
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 3, 2002 20:27:13 GMT -5
The farm when Houle left (20 decent prospects over 5 years): 1996 44 G Mathieu Garon 71 R Arron Asham 181 L Timo Vertala 1997 11 R Jason Ward 122 D Gennady Razin 1998 16 C Eric Chouinard 45 C Mike Ribeiro 75 D Francois Beauchemin 162 D Andrei Markov 216 L Michael Ryder 1999 39 Alexander Buturlin 145 R Marc-Andre Thinel 150 D Matt Shasby 196 G Vadim Tarasov 253 L Jerome Marois 2000 13 D Ron Hainsey 16 C Marcel Hossa 78 R Josef Balej 114 C Christian Larrivee 243 G Joni Puurula Savard (13 decent over 2 years): 2001 7 D Mike Komisarek 25 F Alexander Perezhogin 37 R Duncan Milroy 71 F Tomas Plekanec 109 D Martti Jarventie 171 C Eric Himelfarb 203 D Andrew Archer 2002 14 Christopher Higgins 45 Tomas Linhart 99 C Michael Lambert 182 R Andre Deveaux 212 R Jonathan Ferland 275 Konstantin Korneyev Viper was talking about the current team not the drafting. I think everyone agrees AS has been much better at the draft table than Houle
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Post by Viper on Dec 3, 2002 20:28:53 GMT -5
Savard isn't getting mediocre.. you are just frustrated about this situation.. you can't let it go. Savard knows what he is doing. again i need evidence of some sort here my friend saying i'm frustrated by the situation is pretty lame i've held this view from the beginning. I'm sorry if i sound repetitive but again i'll remind you Savard hasn't proven a single solitary thing to me about being great. Theodore carried this team into the playoff and through the first round if not for that this team right now is no better than the one Houle was in charge of. that's the facts deal with em or keep dreaming. I will wait till he proves he has a clue before saying he does. Cerkawski trade "mistake" Ribiero at age 23 hasn't been given a fair chance at all. on the 4th line after three games come on your talking about 40 second shifts with 2 4th liner's you say he has vision well maybe someone with some hands and scoring touch is all he needs. has he been given those no.
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Post by Habsolutely on Dec 3, 2002 20:30:08 GMT -5
Ribeiro can be successful if paired with the right players. he needs a zednik type of scorer that he can set up, he's a play maker. it showed last season when they were playing together, ribs got 13 points in 16 games. i disagree with habsolutely when he says if ribeiro was any good he would be part of our young core with markov and theo. markov took until this year to become the player he is, and if i'm not mistaken both he and ribeiro are the same age, and given the way ribeiro was playing during pre season i think he could have really emerged as a good play maker and scorer if he didn't go down to injury, and was given the chance to play on a top two line. This is where the problem is, GoMTL. Who would like to make happy ? Zednik, the best winger on our team.. a player who is on pace for the magical number of 40 goals.. and who wouldn't mind a big guy who'll do the dirty work around the corners and would increase his space in the offensize zone while having offensive talent or...... Mike Ribeiro, not far away from being another Houle's bust.. who doesn't seem to know what he does on the ice, and who needs a Zednik type of player + probably a Lindros as well near him. My choice is easy.. make Zednik as happy as possible and it's not with Ribeiro that he'll have this happiness.
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Post by GoMtl on Dec 3, 2002 20:32:52 GMT -5
i didn't say split up zed and saks (i wouldnt want that). i'm saying if ribeiro is put on a line with a good scorer with zednik-like qualitites he could make magic, i think czerkawski is a good enough scorer that they could produce well, but sadly he seems to have seen his last day...
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Post by Habsolutely on Dec 3, 2002 20:34:22 GMT -5
again i need evidence of some sort here my friend saying i'm frustrated by the situation is pretty lame i've held this view from the beginning. I'm sorry if i sound repetitive but again i'll remind you Savard hasn't proven a single solitary thing to me about being great. Theodore carried this team into the playoff and through the first round if not for that this team right now is no better than the one Houle was in charge of. that's the facts deal with em or keep dreaming. I will wait till he proves he has a clue before saying he does. Cerkawski trade "mistake" Ribiero at age 23 hasn't been given a fair chance at all. on the 4th line after three games come on your talking about 40 second shifts with 2 4th liner's you say he has vision well maybe someone with some hands and scoring touch is all he needs. has he been given those no. "To you".... that's your problem. I've proved my point many times. It's too easy to keep repeating this and that about Savard.. and the need of proofs. I gave them to you. You don't accept it.. not my problem. Ribeiro isn't worth anything anyway.. you are in dreamland if you think otherwise.
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Post by Ged on Dec 3, 2002 20:54:19 GMT -5
Ribiero is a boy playing in a man's league. This is so obvious, it is excrutiatinglly painful. And in all that coaching wisdom, he replaces Markov on the first PP unit. Give me a break.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 3, 2002 20:57:09 GMT -5
Well, that is bad coaching. Ribeiro should just stay on the 2nd unit. But with MT at the helm.................
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Post by Yossarian on Dec 3, 2002 21:33:07 GMT -5
Ribeiro scored some pretty nifty goals last year. He does have some skill. But to put him in a position where he can't use what he is capable of bringing to the table, is simply bad management. If AS made these comments, he should know better.
Good management, whether its sports, business, or any forum, is to provide people with the resources they will need to succeed. A frail guy like Ribs in the NHL is going to need big forwards who can create space for him. If you don't have the big forwards (and I'm not talking slugs) don't bother wasting a roster spot on him expecting some miracle performance, and just let him play in the AHL. More than one player has excelled in this league, with some shortcoming in skill because a coach knew how to use him by defining his role, and putting him in a position to succeed, and not fail and look so out of place.
It was absolutely comical that it was MT that decided to put Ribs on the pp, one (or was it the second) game after he comes back from injury against Carolina. Why? Is it the heavy shot? His ability to skate backwards and defend in case of a crisis better than any defenceman on the roster? In anybody's right mind, what would point to Ribeiro excelling in that position?? So he coughs up the puck that leads directly to a sh goal that changes the momentum of the game, and fails in a position he never should have been placed in. Then MT benches him the next game, when he's the rocket scientist that put him on the point in the first place!!! Yep, thats our coach!!!
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Post by Viper on Dec 3, 2002 21:44:37 GMT -5
The farm when Houle left (20 decent prospects over 5 years): 1996 44 G Mathieu Garon 71 R Arron Asham 181 L Timo Vertala 1997 11 R Jason Ward 122 D Gennady Razin 1998 16 C Eric Chouinard 45 C Mike Ribeiro 75 D Francois Beauchemin 162 D Andrei Markov 216 L Michael Ryder 1999 39 Alexander Buturlin 145 R Marc-Andre Thinel 150 D Matt Shasby 196 G Vadim Tarasov 253 L Jerome Marois 2000 13 D Ron Hainsey 16 C Marcel Hossa 78 R Josef Balej 114 C Christian Larrivee 243 G Joni Puurula Savard (13 decent over 2 years): 2001 7 D Mike Komisarek 25 F Alexander Perezhogin 37 R Duncan Milroy 71 F Tomas Plekanec 109 D Martti Jarventie 171 C Eric Himelfarb 203 D Andrew Archer 2002 14 Christopher Higgins 45 Tomas Linhart 99 C Michael Lambert 182 R Andre Deveaux 212 R Jonathan Ferland 275 Konstantin Korneyev what's your point as i said beyond the farm things are no better
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Post by UberCranky on Dec 3, 2002 21:45:20 GMT -5
Habsolutely and Viper, calm down. If you guys don't see eye to eye that's fine, but stop quoting each other and getting aggravated over it. Next thing you know you guys will throw soft boiled eggs at each other and I will have to clean up behind you with buttered toast....
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Post by Viper on Dec 3, 2002 21:51:05 GMT -5
"To you".... that's your problem. I've proved my point many times. It's too easy to keep repeating this and that about Savard.. and the need of proofs. I gave them to you. You don't accept it.. not my problem. Ribeiro isn't worth anything anyway.. you are in dreamland if you think otherwise. You have provided a tremendously large amount of hypothetical possibilities but nothing of substance that is the problem i have with your defense of Savard. Of course i want the fairy tale to come true and all the possibilities and chips to fall the right way but thus far the way the actual team looks as far as balance is concerned regarding the over abundance of RW's, the overpaid vet's, and the poor coaching that get's contract extensions. Their is many facts that provide evidence to the contrary. I respect your optimism and your wishes that's admirable and of course i hope they pan out but the fact remains that everything you've ever brought up is hypothetical. I want facts not hypothesis.
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Post by habfan4 on Dec 3, 2002 21:51:29 GMT -5
Perhaps AS is trying to light a fire under Ribeiro, IMO it's a bush league attempt to motivate the kid.
I think a number of posters are kidding themselves about Ribs. For someone who supposedly put on a little weight/muscle and worked on his speed during the off-season, he doesn't look any quicker or any more solid on his skates. His skill with the puck has never been in question, but without NHL calibre size, speed or tenacity to go along with the brilliant hands, he simply won't have a future in the NHL. I am inclined to lump him in with Jason Ward, both players have some solid attributes, but IMO their short comings are to great for them to be bona fide NHLers.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Dec 3, 2002 21:52:40 GMT -5
Wave Ribeiro... he's a punk who cares... Plekanek is Mike Bossy anyway.
Wave Kilger too he can't play.
Wave Audette and Petrov.
Wave Hackett he's finished.
Wave Theodore he was just a flash in the pan.
Wave Traverse, Dykhuis and Brisebois, they're...well...French.
Call up Ward, Hainsey and Hossa and then Wave them too, they're no good because they're not NHL players...
Wave, wave wave...
Then... we'll get new one from waivers at the end of year...
That's how you build.
That's how you bring credibility to a franchise.
Long Live Savard and Therrien.
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Post by MPLABBE on Dec 3, 2002 21:57:36 GMT -5
Doc, here I was expecting this huge reply on Ribeiro and how great he was and you come up with that?
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Post by UberCranky on Dec 3, 2002 21:59:02 GMT -5
You have provided a tremendously large amount of hypothetical possibilities but nothing of substance that is the problem i have with your defense of Savard. Of course i want the fairy tale to come true and all the possibilities and chips to fall the right way but thus far the way the actual team looks as far as balance is concerned regarding the over abundance of RW's, the overpaid vet's, and the poor coaching that get's contract extensions. Their is many facts that provide evidence to the contrary. I respect your optimism and your wishes that's admirable and of course i hope they pan out but the fact remains that everything you've ever brought up is hypothetical. I want facts not hypothesis. Viper, there is no right or wrong OPINIONS here. Habsolutely is a fanatical Savard fan as much as you or I are a fanatical "Hang Therrien" fan. Sheesh. Did you ever hear the song "Let it be" by the Beatles? Now yodel it....
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Post by Doc Holliday on Dec 3, 2002 21:59:08 GMT -5
I am so piss Marc I shouldn't be here...
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