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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 29, 2002 16:10:44 GMT -5
when will he learn hockey teams need different mixes of players? and not a bunch of similar small forwards who are not even that fast? Doesn't he see we can't compete with elite teams unless our goalie is unbelievable? didn't he see this LAST YEAR?
Right now, at this point, you could release or eliminate 1 if not 2 of Audette/Chow/Petrov and you would have an improved team. Chow just doesn't belong on a 4th line. Your 4th line needs to give you energy/hard work/toughness. You eliminate a malcontent from the dressing room as well.
DO SOMETHING BEFORE THE SEASON IS TOAST!!!
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Post by AH on Nov 29, 2002 18:09:20 GMT -5
No he is not blind, just very stubborn.
The season is hardly done with, but things definitely don't look promising the way they are. This organization has the horses to make the playoffs and maybe even win the division. The thing that is most frustrating to watch is that they refuse to employ those assets.
At this point what is needed (if trades are not going to happen to move some people) is some good old fashioned long-term injuries to the likes of Audette, Petrov, Gilmour, Traverse, Q-Ball.
That is bound to get this team moving in the right direction.
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Post by Viper on Nov 29, 2002 18:13:55 GMT -5
No he is not blind, just very stubborn. The season is hardly done with, but things definitely don't look promising the way they are. This organization has the horses to make the playoffs and maybe even win the division. The thing that is most frustrating to watch is that they refuse to employ those assets. At this point what is needed (if trades are not going to happen to move some people) is some good old fashioned long-term injuries to the likes of Audette, Petrov, Gilmour, Traverse, Q-Ball. That is bound to get this team moving in the right direction. Ouch i hate to talk about injuries considering this teams history but that sure would create the nesacary player movement we need. And the team should be that much better for it except for the fact it makes those bums even less moveable when they return so we are back to square one again.
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Post by AH on Nov 29, 2002 18:31:12 GMT -5
Those 5 guys are the poster children for what is wrong with this club. Small, soft, crappy, one dimensional, crappy, overpaid, old, crappy etc, crappy ... (you get the point) ...
Gilmour and Petrov won't be that hard to move since they are both in the last year of their contracts (although I doubt Gilmour will be traded unless the team completely falls out of it). Quintal has one more year left on his deal. Eating part of his salary for next season may get us the draft pick we gave up for Blouin. Traverse makes 750K this seaosn and 800K next year. A team like Atlanta will gladly take him for Free.
The problem is Audette. No one will want the remaining 8 million on his deal. and no one will want him for more than six months. Out of all the crappy players on the team, he is the only one we are REALLY stuck with past this season.
Mckay and Dykhuis I can live with. If Turner Syevenson can make 1.5 million and take a regular turn on the Devils 4th line, then Randy Mckay is not so bad at 2.1 million. Dyknuis at 1.5 million is not too bad. His game has really fallen off this year, but I expect him to rebound. hackett can be moved tomorrow if Savard really wanted, but to much dismay, he is waiting for the perfect deal. He is waiting for a sweetheart deal a la Oates last season when the Flyers got really desparate.
Andre Savard CAN move some of these guys. It's just that he chooses not too.
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Post by KILLger on Nov 29, 2002 18:45:57 GMT -5
when will he learn hockey teams need different mixes of players? and not a bunch of similar small forwards who are not even that fast? Doesn't he see we can't compete with elite teams unless our goalie is unbelievable? didn't he see this LAST YEAR? Right now, at this point, you could release or eliminate 1 if not 2 of Audette/Chow/Petrov and you would have an improved team. Chow just doesn't belong on a 4th line. Your 4th line needs to give you energy/hard work/toughness. You eliminate a malcontent from the dressing room as well. DO SOMETHING BEFORE THE SEASON IS TOAST!!! Bulis - not small Zednik - not soft Odjick - big load of crap McKay - big gritty 3rd liner Blouin - big (but would need skills...) Kilger - big, fast... (hands of stone ) Quintal - big, somewhat gritty Gilmour - small but a cheap shot artist Lindsay - a wrecking ball AS acquired size/grit. The thing is that Therrien barely plays Kilger and that most of the rest don,t have much skills. We won't be handed players that are big talented and gritty for free...
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 29, 2002 19:15:28 GMT -5
Audette: small, small, small
Chow: lazy
Traverse: a big linguini
Dackell: THANK GOD he is a good defensive player
Juneau: see Dackell
I can play that game as well ;D
I see AH is out in full force. Are you PTH's twin? ;D
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Post by KILLger on Nov 29, 2002 19:32:28 GMT -5
Audette: small, small, small Chow: lazy Traverse: a big linguini Dackell: THANK GOD he is a good defensive player Juneau: see Dackell I can play that game as well ;D I see AH is out in full force. Are you PTH's twin? ;D I don't think I am.. would be an honor though! All I was saying is that he acquired some big guys... Anyway we're not a team for the present time but one built for the future (or building for the future..). Komisarek's big. Ward (has a third liner grinder?) is tall and gritty. Hossa's big and strong, a bit like Dazé IMO (not as big though). Hainsey isn't a little guy. Ferland (a long shot that I have hopes in) is big and likes to play the body. Chouinard could become something (doubtful). Add Zednik, Kilger, Bulis, Souray and Rivet to that bunch of prospects and we'd be middle-sized or even bigger. On a side note, if we end up 8th in the standings in the east, I'll be an happy guy, as we'll have a shot at Steve Bernier, he seems to be exactly what we need!
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 29, 2002 19:40:36 GMT -5
I don't think I am.. would be an honor though! You want to be PTH's twin? Some. But guys like Traverse, Czerkawski,etc may be big but they don't hit, play scared,etc It's tough to keep saying that with the current team we have. It really is. Teams that build for the future have their top prospects up in the NHL and they are learning. We just seem to wait until we have injuries to count on them and when the injured players come back, regardless of how well the kid played, they go back down That's maybe the best comparaison you can make. Daze probably has a better shot and is obviously bigger but both are big guys who are a little lazy but very talented. But those days can't arrive soon enough!!! Hehehe good point...it's a great draft year...The top 2 prospects(Zerdev and Horton) are centers...it looks like Nashville, Atlanta and Buffalo could have some of the top pics...all those teams have talent at center already...hmm maybe the Habs can make a trade to get a top pick? Nathan Horton would sure look good From HF: ''2. Nathan Horton --C--Oshawa Has power forward's makeup - good size and toughness. Horton is an excellent skater with a hard shot. Has good understanding of the game - due for a breakout year.'' I saw on TSN last night he had 23 points in 11 games so far...he should be on our WJC team...the description of his overall game sounds like a current NHL star with a similar last name a guy who was pretty dominating today
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Post by AH on Nov 29, 2002 19:59:02 GMT -5
One question: Who is PTH and why am I being compared to him/her
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 29, 2002 20:16:31 GMT -5
Who is PTH and why am I being compared to him/her OH you'll know soon enough ;D Basically, a regular poster here who is the biggest AS doubter out there and the first one who started doubted him sometime last year.
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Post by KILLger on Nov 29, 2002 20:24:23 GMT -5
You want to be PTH's twin? His evil twin. It's tough to keep saying that with the current team we have. It really is. Teams that build for the future have their top prospects up in the NHL and they are learning. We just seem to wait until we have injuries to count on them and when the injured players come back, regardless of how well the kid played, they go back down Our top end prospects aren't ready yet. Hainsey could be considered ready, as he has very little to learn off in the AHL, but he wasn't really effective with the big club, he wasn't shooting enough and that's his forte... he needs to shoot more, way more. The whole team needs to do so too. ''2. Nathan Horton --C--Oshawa Has power forward's makeup - good size and toughness. Horton is an excellent skater with a hard shot. Has good understanding of the game - due for a breakout year.'' I saw on TSN last night he had 23 points in 11 games so far...he should be on our WJC team...the description of his overall game sounds like a current NHL star with a similar last name a guy who was pretty dominating today I'd be soooooooo happy if we'd acquire this guy! Wonder if Savard will make a pitch for him... he did try for Kovalchuk and gave the Thrashers the best offer, hope he'll do it once again but that we'll now have what we want.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 29, 2002 20:30:12 GMT -5
Our top end prospects aren't ready yet. Hainsey could be considered ready, as he has very little to learn off in the AHL, but he wasn't really effective with the big club, he wasn't shooting enough and that's his forte... he needs to shoot more, way more. The whole team needs to do so too. I agree about Hainsey having to shoot more. He has a good shot and he has to use it. But it's tough to say our prospects aren't ready yet when they don't even get the opportunity to show their stuff! Nashville has a bunch of offensive talent and 2 centers already there(Legwand and Arkhipov) Ditto for the Thrashers. Stefan is becoming a stud center and Savard is a solid 2nd line center for years to come. Buffalo has Connolly, Gratton, Novotny, Paille,etc down the middle Those 3 teams may not need a Horton in their future...they probably need help on defence more than anything. I wouldn't be surprised if they shop the pick. If we can get that pick without giving up one of the big 3 on defence, I would be thrilled.
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Post by AH on Nov 29, 2002 20:49:09 GMT -5
OH you'll know soon enough ;D Basically, a regular poster here who is the biggest AS doubter out there and the first one who started doubted him sometime last year. I got on Savard's case early last season when the horror show started to unfold and then he gave Therrien an extension. I was villified for it over on fanhome. People called me all sorts of names ... My initials (AH) were re-written for a**-hole. Anyways, I always maintained that he has done a fair to good job. But he is no genius like some others have called him. Enough on that ... as far as this Horton kid goes, if he is the real deal as a center/PF, then why wouldn't the Nashville's or Atlants's take him. It's not like Arkipov and Marc Savard are anything more than slightly above-average players in today's NHL.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 29, 2002 21:43:01 GMT -5
Enough on that ... as far as this Horton kid goes, if he is the real deal as a center/PF, then why wouldn't the Nashville's or Atlants's take him. It's not like Arkipov and Marc Savard are anything more than slightly above-average players in today's NHL. Perhaps, but those 2 teams need help in other areas more than up front. That's why I suggest they may trade the pick.
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Post by habwest on Nov 29, 2002 22:17:53 GMT -5
Gee, there are sure a lot of folks who appear to have intimate hockey discussions with Savard on a frequent basis. I mean they "know" what Savard is thinking...although it seems odd that he appears to be telling different things to different folks, or so it would seem.
Now we can conjecture what Savard is thinking, offer some educated guesses, usually based as much, or more, on our own opinions as on anything approaching evidence, but, hey, why let a little detail like that get in the way.
Me, I'm conjecturing that it isn't easy to get a good deal done so it may take him some time, if he's even actively pursuing it. Or he might be figuring out who might be available to replace MT and company- I don't think any of the assistants have been particularly impressive, PK sucks, PP sucks, etc, etc-. Or...I dunno.
Think I'll go call Andre and get together with him for a few brews. Tell him what he's gotta do to fix the team. Could just take everything that's offered up on this board and let him take his pick or throw darts to make a choice or something. I mean there's everything from A to Z so we gotta have it covered somewhere, right.... don't we?? I mean if it's so obvious, even if it's completely conflicting advice all he's gotta do is go out and make a few calls...huh?.... I mean, it can't be very hard right?
If he would only listen....divide his brain up into 27.5391 different compartments, tune each one into a line of advice and then go out and ...do it!!! I can see him now, ocillating at ever faster frequncies, each part of his body running into another part as each part goes off to follow the expert and insider advice, absolutley ENRON blue chip, found on this board. He'll be last seen fading from view as he ocillates at too high a rate for human sight.
Now where was I? Oh yea, I think I need to go off and conjecture...or maybe go have a snooze.
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 29, 2002 22:42:07 GMT -5
Gee, there are sure a lot of folks who appear to have intimate hockey discussions with Savard on a frequent basis. I mean they "know" what Savard is thinking...although it seems odd that he appears to be telling different things to different folks, or so it would seem. Now we can conjecture what Savard is thinking, offer some educated guesses, usually based as much, or more, on our own opinions as on anything approaching evidence, but, hey, why let a little detail like that get in the way. Me, I'm conjecturing that it isn't easy to get a good deal done so it may take him some time, if he's even actively pursuing it. Or he might be figuring out who might be available to replace MT and company- I don't think any of the assistants have been particularly impressive, PK sucks, PP sucks, etc, etc-. Or...I dunno. Think I'll go call Andre and get together with him for a few brews. Tell him what he's gotta do to fix the team. Could just take everything that's offered up on this board and let him take his pick or throw darts to make a choice or something. I mean there's everything from A to Z so we gotta have it covered somewhere, right.... don't we?? I mean if it's so obvious, even if it's completely conflicting advice all he's gotta do is go out and make a few calls...huh?.... I mean, it can't be very hard right? If he would only listen....divide his brain up into 27.5391 different compartments, tune each one into a line of advice and then go out and ...do it!!! I can see him now, ocillating at ever faster frequncies, each part of his body running into another part as each part goes off to follow the expert and insider advice, absolutley ENRON blue chip, found on this board. He'll be last seen fading from view as he ocillates at too high a rate for human sight. Now where was I? Oh yea, I think I need to go off and conjecture...or maybe go have a snooze. What are you talking about? You KNOW that I am in constant contact with him and we do lunch at least once a week. In fact, I do his secretary on a regular basis in order to take a look at those secret trade faxes. All this undercover work, all the things I have to do and you don't even appreciate me.
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Post by montreal on Nov 29, 2002 23:12:12 GMT -5
Gee, there are sure a lot of folks who appear to have intimate hockey discussions with Savard on a frequent basis. I mean they "know" what Savard is thinking...although it seems odd that he appears to be telling different things to different folks, or so it would seem. Now we can conjecture what Savard is thinking, offer some educated guesses, usually based as much, or more, on our own opinions as on anything approaching evidence, but, hey, why let a little detail like that get in the way. Me, I'm conjecturing that it isn't easy to get a good deal done so it may take him some time, if he's even actively pursuing it. Or he might be figuring out who might be available to replace MT and company- I don't think any of the assistants have been particularly impressive, PK sucks, PP sucks, etc, etc-. Or...I dunno. Think I'll go call Andre and get together with him for a few brews. Tell him what he's gotta do to fix the team. Could just take everything that's offered up on this board and let him take his pick or throw darts to make a choice or something. I mean there's everything from A to Z so we gotta have it covered somewhere, right.... don't we?? I mean if it's so obvious, even if it's completely conflicting advice all he's gotta do is go out and make a few calls...huh?.... I mean, it can't be very hard right? If he would only listen....divide his brain up into 27.5391 different compartments, tune each one into a line of advice and then go out and ...do it!!! I can see him now, ocillating at ever faster frequncies, each part of his body running into another part as each part goes off to follow the expert and insider advice, absolutley ENRON blue chip, found on this board. He'll be last seen fading from view as he ocillates at too high a rate for human sight. Now where was I? Oh yea, I think I need to go off and conjecture...or maybe go have a snooze. Our PP is 8th in the league, not bad at all. Jodin seems to have worked a lot on it, as it was horrid early in the season. Our PK has looked better the last few games, but when your best penalty killer (Theodore) isn't doing well, then its going to be tough to get it going. Charron had the Ducks PK at 7th last year, I think we will get better once, Theo finds his A game. I have heard a lot of good things about Trevor Timmins, so I would keep him around too. If I were to fire someone, it would be Green and Therrien, but I would like to see who they could get to replace them.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 29, 2002 23:21:30 GMT -5
What are you talking about? You KNOW that I am in constant contact with him and we do lunch at least once a week. In fact, I do his secretary on a regular basis in order to take a look at those secret trade faxes. All this undercover work, all the things I have to do and you don't even appreciate me. Isn't his secretary named Alain Dupuis? Jeeze, we do owe you. .....and pre-heat the oven to 350 degrees before you put the Rooster in. Don't forget the stuffing.
It was the OTHER secretary.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 29, 2002 23:50:05 GMT -5
Ok, let me try being a bigot of a different kind.
Has anyone else besides me noticed that the players for which MT has the most patience have Quebecois names and those whose minds he tampers with or punishes for playing well, don't? HabsRus posters who have seen most of the games have very little good to say about Audette. Yet he continues to get primo icetime and with good teammates. Quintal and Traverse have been our worst defensemen and they continue to get solid ice time, Traverse gets PP time no less. Now, personally, I don't care if my best player is a dwarf/troll blend from Pluto, so long as he shows great skill, heart and grit. Does MT put those same attributes at the top or is their birthplace more important to him? Asham, Hainsey, Markov (last year). In fact, has Savard traded any French speaking player yet? That's a real question not a rhetorical one, as I'm honestly trying to remember. Is our brain trust intimidated by the French media? Who is really running the Habs?
I throw these out as topics of conversation. I have trouble believing it is true, but, you know, it helps explain MT's strage decisions. (Who's getting most of the goal time despite being outplayed by a certain goalie with an English last name?) Even Koivu only gets 17-18 minutes a game. This theory doesn't explain Gilmour, but it covers the fact that none of our good, young prospects are with the big team, and by George, none of them are Quebecois. Oliver Stone should hire me.
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Post by montreal on Nov 30, 2002 1:48:14 GMT -5
Ok, let me try being a bigot of a different kind. Has anyone else besides me noticed that the players for which MT has the most patience have Quebecois names and those whose minds he tampers with or punishes for playing well, don't? HabsRus posters who have seen most of the games have very little good to say about Audette. Yet he continues to get primo icetime and with good teammates. Quintal and Traverse have been our worst defensemen and they continue to get solid ice time, Traverse gets PP time no less. Now, personally, I don't care if my best player is a dwarf/troll blend from Pluto, so long as he shows great skill, heart and grit. Does MT put those same attributes at the top or is their birthplace more important to him? Asham, Hainsey, Markov (last year). In fact, has Savard traded any French speaking player yet? That's a real question not a rhetorical one, as I'm honestly trying to remember. Is our brain trust intimidated by the French media? Who is really running the Habs? I throw these out as topics of conversation. I have trouble believing it is true, but, you know, it helps explain MT's strage decisions. (Who's getting most of the goal time despite being outplayed by a certain goalie with an English last name?) Even Koivu only gets 17-18 minutes a game. This theory doesn't explain Gilmour, but it covers the fact that none of our good, young prospects are with the big team, and by George, none of them are Quebecois. Oliver Stone should hire me. Well with Audette, I personally think they are trying to get him to play like he was in last years playoffs, but its not working. But who should replace him, Chow? Not much difference there. I think Dykhuis and Quintal have been our worst defencemen. Notice they are playing together now? Traverse hasn't been that bad, when you compare him to Dykhuis. I don't have a problem with Traverse on the PP, but he's getting too much time, IMO. He can pass so that puts him above half our defence right there. As for Savard trading any French players, none. Franics Belanger wasn't resigned (a guy he traded for) Fiset wasn't resigned either, that's all I can think of.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 30, 2002 10:03:07 GMT -5
I agree about Traverse;
He is a competent 6th. But playing 20 minutes per game is cause for concern because half of fan base will have heart attacks soon ;D
Traverse is a decent 15 minute per game guy...but no way a top pairing guy...
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Post by KR on Nov 30, 2002 13:52:42 GMT -5
I've been a big AS supporter to date, but I have to admit I'm starting to lose faith in him. If he's trying to model this team after the Sens he's overlooking one very large factor. The Sens have a terrific coach. He made statements about how he wanted to bring along one rookie every year like Ottawa, but how many rookies are there in the Montreal lineup now? ZERO!!! Therrien is supposed to be an emotional coach. When he was hired he said he wanted a team that would work hard and play tough. They've done neither. That's a good philosophy for a young or expansion team, but the Habs are neither. He won't get that kind of commitment out of veterans unless there is a blend of youngsters to push them. A couple of year ago we saw the Habs play some inspired hockey woth Corson and Hackett leading the way. That's because they had something to play for. Pride. They were decimated by injuries and were out to prove they could still compete. They fell short of the playoffs, but they still played some great hockey for a couple of months. This team has nothing to play for. There are too many overpaid veterans just showing up at the arena to collect their paycheques. Every team has those guys, but not as many as the Habs have. Some of our players give it their all and don't produce (Petrov, for instance). Too many others don't consistently work hard.....Gilmour, Audette, Czerkawski, Perreault, Lindsay. We can't afford that much uninspired play game after game.
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