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Post by JacquesInFL on Nov 27, 2002 14:50:43 GMT -5
Here again, if it interests you, are some numbers for Habs forwards. Season is passing the quarter turn (22 games) and trends regarding ice time and productivity are emerging as the club enters tough portion of the schedule (English abbreviations mostly obvious and EV=even strength, so EV Min/Point says how much ice time it takes one of our heroes to notch an even strength point). -- What do you see, friends?
KOIVU: 22GP, 9G, 11A, 20Pts, +1, 18:43 Min/Gm, 49 Shots, 77:53 PP Min, 2PPG, 4PPA, 14:48 PK Min, 319:49 EV Min, 13 EV Pts, 24:37 EV Min/Point
ZEDNIK: 20GP, 10G, 5A, 15Pts, -1, 18:30 Min/Gm, 61 Shots, 59:36 PP Min, 3PPG, 0PPA, 8:17 PK Min, 304:08 EV Min, 11 EV Pts, 27:38 EV Min/Point
MCKAY: 20GP, 2G, 4A, 6Pts, E, 11:45 Min/Gm, 17 Shots, 35:15 PP Min, 1PPG, 0PPA, 25:49 PK Min, 173:58 EV Min, 5 EV Pts, 34:48 EV Min/Point
GILMOUR: 21GP, 2G, 7A, 9Pts, +3, 15:47 Min/Gm, 21 Shots, 66:10 PP Min, 0PPG, 2PPA, 2:40 PK Min, 262:33 EV Min, 7 EV Pts, 37:31 EV Min/Point
PETROV: 20GP, 4G, 8A, 12Pts, +1, 14:39 Min/Gm, 35 Shots, 45:49 PP Min, 2PPG, 1PPA, 1:51 PK Min, 245:14 EV Min, 9 EV Pts, 27:15 EV Min/Point
CZERK: 18GP, 2G, 7A, 9Pts, E, 13:12 Min/Gm, 29 Shots, 20:57 PP Min, 0PPG, 1PPA, 9:27 PK Min, 207:22 EV Min, 8 EV Pts, 25:55 EV Min/Point
PERREAULT: 22GP, 11G, 8A, 19Pts, +4, 15:59 Min/Gm, 41 Shots, 74:19 PP Min, 5PPG, 2PPA, 0:43 PK Min, 275:01 EV Min, 12 EV Pts, 22:55 EV Min/Point
AUDETTE: 18GP, 2G, 4A, 6Pts, -5, 15:28 Min/Gm, 36 Shots, 70:08 PP Min, 0PPG, 3PPA, 0:08 PK Min, 208:03 EV Min, 3 EV Pts, 69:21 EV Min/Point
KILGER: 17GP, 0G, 3A, 3Pts, -2, 8:39 Min/Gm, 18 Shots, 0:48 PP Min, 0PPG, 0PPA, 29:55 PK Min, 116:16 EV Min, 3 EV Pts, 38:45 EV Min/Point
JUNEAU: 22GP, 3G, 4A, 7Pts, E, 18:04 Min/Gm, 21 Shots, 12:39 PP Min, 0PPG, 0PPA, 100:41 PK Min, 283:53 EV Min, 7 EV Pts, 40:33 EV Min/Point
BULIS: 22GP, 4G, 6A, 10Pts, +3, 13:27 Min/Gm, 40 Shots, 3:39 PP Min, 0PPG, 0PPA, 47:02 PK Min, 245:07 EV Min, 10 EV Pts, 24:31 EV Min/Point
DACKELL: 22GP, 2G, 6A, 8Pts, +1, 15:58 Min/Gm, 22 Shots, 5:37 PP Min, 0PPG, 0PPA, 88:37 PK Min, 256:52 EV Min, 8 EV Pts, 32:07 EV Min/Point
LINDSAY: 12GP, 0G, 1A, 1Pts, +1, 5:19 Min/Gm, 4 Shots, 0:25 PP Min, 0PPG, 0PPA, 0:46 PK Min, 62:35 EV Min, 1 EV Pts, 62:35 EV Min/Point
BLOUIN: 5GP, 0G, 0A, 0Pts, E, 3:04 Min/Gm, 0 Shots, 0:00 PP Min, 0PPG, 0PPA, 0:00 PK Min, 15:22 EV Min, 0 EV Pts, n/a EV Min/Point
RIBEIRO: 3GP, 0G, 1A, 1Pts, -3, 8:14 Min/Gm, 4 Shots, 4:49 PP Min, 0PPG, 1PPA, 0:00 PK Min, 19:52 EV Min, 0 EV Pts, n/a EV Min/Point
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Post by Viper on Nov 27, 2002 15:51:22 GMT -5
Here again, if it interests you, are some numbers for Habs forwards. Season is passing the quarter turn (22 games) and trends regarding ice time and productivity are emerging as the club enters tough portion of the schedule (English abbreviations mostly obvious and EV=even strength, so EV Min/Point says how much ice time it takes one of our heroes to notch an even strength point). -- What do you see, friends? AUDETTE: 18GP, 2G, 4A, 6Pts, -5, 15:28 Min/Gm, 36 Shots, 70:08 PP Min, 0PPG, 3PPA, 0:08 PK Min, 208:03 EV Min, 3 EV Pts, 69:21 EV Min/Point BULIS: 22GP, 4G, 6A, 10Pts, +3, 13:27 Min/Gm, 40 Shots, 3:39 PP Min, 0PPG, 0PPA, 47:02 PK Min, 245:07 EV Min, 10 EV Pts, 24:31 EV Min/Point Now does anyone else wonder why Bulis is not being given more opportunity to prove his skills as an offensive forward ? i have been campaigning for a promotion on this board for the kid since about the 6 or 7 game mark and the proof is above by a million miles 4 more points total 7 more at even strength and the majority of his ice time has been against the opposition's top offensive lines. A plus 3 versus minus 5 again against oppositions top lines. and finally does anyone else not realize yet Michel Therrien is an idiot.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 27, 2002 16:36:01 GMT -5
Now does anyone else wonder why Bulis is not being given more opportunity to prove his skills as an offensive forward ? i have been campaigning for a promotion on this board for the kid since about the 6 or 7 game mark and the proof is above by a million miles 4 more points total 7 more at even strength and the majority of his ice time has been against the opposition's top offensive lines. A plus 3 versus minus 5 again against oppositions top lines. Bulis is going to get his shot eventually. Wouldn't be surprised if we see next year: Zed-Koivu-Audette Bulis-Perreault-Petrov/Czerk and Hossa gets too learn with JJ and Dacks I really like Bulis. Keep in mind he is 2 years younger than Zed. In 2004-05(if there is no lockout) we could see Bulis have a Zed of this year like season
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Post by JacquesInFL on Nov 27, 2002 17:08:35 GMT -5
Sorry, Marc and others, I’m not sold on Audette playing with Zed and Saku. Yes, there’s offensive talent on the Captain’s wings, but Zed and Saku have not been more productive 5 on 5 since Donald lucked his way on their line. Why is that? And what does Martin, Burns, Hitch et al see when break down film of Koivu’s line? I see a line getting exposed defensively near the end of long (sometimes, very long) shifts. I see Saku expending tremendous amounts of energy digging pucks out of corners and being the defensive conscience for his line. My bottom line: Saku should be the smallest guy on his line, Zed’s the sniper and the third guy has to be the one more committed defensively than Zed. If Audette stays on this line, he probably will get his 15-18 goals and 40-45 points and the entire line will finish in the –5 to –10 range. Remember, on the road, RatDog will be an even bigger liability because Burns or Hitch etc play match up they want. Please Savard, spare us December nights watching Audette do his Pavel Bure imitation, skating figure 8s in the neutral zone while the less favoured hockey players work in the defensive zone.
Barring injuries, where exactly does Ribeiro fit in this season? I think there are enough small, soft centres already on the menu. Sitting in the pressbox is not ideal for young guys, but I like our fourth line a lot better with size and grit. Rib’s vision and passing make Gilmour a good candidate to give up the odd game for Mike but that is not going to happen. In my opinion, logic dictates you can only be pro-Gilmour AND pro-Ribeiro IF you are willing to defer Ribeiro’s playing time until next year.
Viper, I agree with you. It's hard to explain or dismiss away productivity as the season moves on and points become precious. And the really scary thing is that these numbers do not tell the whole story about how one-dimensional a few forwards really are, since most individual statistics are offense.
Savard certainly has issues to ponder.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 27, 2002 17:16:02 GMT -5
Sorry, Marc and others, I’m not sold on Audette playing with Zed and Saku. Yes, there’s offensive talent on the Captain’s wings, but Zed and Saku have not been more productive 5 on 5 since Donald lucked his way on their line. Why is that? And what does Martin, Burns, Hitch et al see when break down film of Koivu’s line? I see a line getting exposed defensively near the end of long (sometimes, very long) shifts. I see Saku expending tremendous amounts of energy digging pucks out of corners and being the defensive conscience for his line. My bottom line: Saku should be the smallest guy on his line, Zed’s the sniper and the third guy has to be the one more committed defensively than Zed. If Audette stays on this line, he probably will get his 15-18 goals and 40-45 points and the entire line will finish in the –5 to –10 range. Remember, on the road, RatDog will be an even bigger liability because Burns or Hitch etc play match up they want. Please Savard, spare us December nights watching Audette do his Pavel Bure imitation, skating figure 8s in the neutral zone while the less favoured hockey players work in the defensive zone. But who do you play there instead? Kilger who never plays RW? Chow? Petrov? McKay? Good point. Ribeiro doesn't really fit in with this team unless we have a top 6 forward or two injured.
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Post by JacquesInFL on Nov 27, 2002 18:06:10 GMT -5
Marc, I know what you mean since Audette is here, Czerkawski is here, Petrov is here...that's all true (unfortunately).
But my question is whether Therrien and management are seeing and anticipating the problems with utilising a defensive liability and generally unproductive even strength player like Audette on the top line? And I think they should, considering the December road trip could magnify these problems.
First thing first, a RW has to be traded, released or sent to Utah before Christmas. Then, there would at least be some flexibility for having Zed on RW if that is what it takes to give the first line more size and defensive capacity. Is Kilger the answer? I do not know if he can complement Zed and Saku in terms of vision/anticipation or hands (that's an understatement!) but it's not really far-fetched. Is McKay the answer? A fast skater would be preferable with Zed & Saku. Bulis? If Bulis works hard, he has the defense, lungs and legs to complement the long shifts these guys prefer. Others? Maybe, who knows.
My point is that I don't see RatDog complementing Zed & Saku because he essentially wants to the be offense-only guy when, clearly, Zed is that guy and will be far more productive no matter how how much 1st line and PP ice mangement gives Audette.
Well, Savard is still authorising Therrien to drive this Hostess Cupcake Truck all over North America. It all comes down to making this edition of the Habs harder to play against, more effective, more two-way players. And it also comes down whether Savard has frank and open communication lines with Boivin and GG, so he can make a case for simply releasing deadweight rather than sitting them in the pressbox. Winning is the objective, and if the Ben Franklin's are already burning then what's the difference where they burn.
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Post by Viper on Nov 28, 2002 18:39:22 GMT -5
jacques i believe bulis is the answer to the question he's way better defensively than Audette has offensive touch(outscoring Audette on the third line while recieving less ice time no pp time and facing top lines every night) sell Audette for a year's supply of chunky soup for all i care just get rid of the guy.
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Post by GoMtl on Nov 28, 2002 18:44:34 GMT -5
i'm totally down for trying bulis on the top line, he's earned a chance to prove himself on that line over audette in my opinion. if it works out then we're getting max potential from him, if not then he can still be a good 3rd liner like he is now, and maybe try him again on one of the top 2 next season. i think chow would be better on the top unit than donnie too...
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Nov 28, 2002 18:48:46 GMT -5
Exactly ( chunky soup ). Good posts, Jacques.
When i heard that Czerk was going to be in the mix against Atlanta i joked that he'd be doing what he gets paid to do: kill penalties, sit during pp ops, and play the odd shift on the 4th line. It turned out to be not so funny. It's absolutley nuts. Audette must go. And I'm coming around to the view that Petrov can go too. I would kill to see Bulis/Koivu/Zednick for 5 games. I think they'd give a lot of teams nightmares....
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Post by Viper on Nov 28, 2002 18:52:24 GMT -5
Exactly ( chunky soup ). Good posts, Jacques. When i heard that Czerk was going to be in the mix against Atlanta i joked that he'd be doing what he gets paid to do: kill penalties, sit during pp ops, and play the odd shift on the 4th line. It turned out to be not so funny. It's absolutley nuts. Audette must go. And I'm coming around to the view that Petrov can go too. I would kill to see Bulis/Koivu/Zednick for 5 games. I think they'd give a lot of teams nightmares.... Well the campaign is working i see JV Can i claim part of Bulis salary if he gets a promotion
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Post by Yossarian on Nov 28, 2002 19:15:14 GMT -5
I've been a long time guest on this site, with my first post. Fantastic site, with great info!! I just thought I add my two cents about Bulis.
I think he is the guy for the number one line. Living in the GTA, I used to catch a few Barrie Colts games. At the time, there were two other prospects that were more highly regarded than Bulis on the team; Dan Tkachuk and Alex Volchkov. Both were eventually drafted higher than Bulis. But game after game, Bulis outplayed both. He used to take d-man outside to his right and beat them all the time, and used to have a penchant for putting it upstairs. He made an impression on me. The bottom line is he has NHL skills. The other two guys are mired in the minors, I believe. I was at the game at the ACC against the Leaves earlier in the year, and he played responsibly, but the notion of him playing alongside Zed came to my head as I watched him. I really believe he is the perfect fit, and he merits the promotion as he has played well.
Needless to say, I was ecstatic when AS traded for him and Zed, remember what he used to do in the O. Its not too often that a young player learns to play well in his own zone early, and he has the potential to contribute offensively.
Great to know there are so many other passionate Habs fans, without having to read through thoughtless rambling you read on other sites.
Cheers
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 28, 2002 19:57:11 GMT -5
I've been a long time guest on this site, with my first post. Fantastic site, with great info!! I just thought I add my two cents about Bulis. I think he is the guy for the number one line. Living in the GTA, I used to catch a few Barrie Colts games. At the time, there were two other prospects that were more highly regarded than Bulis on the team; Dan Tkachuk and Alex Volchkov. Both were eventually drafted higher than Bulis. But game after game, Bulis outplayed both. He used to take d-man outside to his right and beat them all the time, and used to have a penchant for putting it upstairs. He made an impression on me. The bottom line is he has NHL skills. The other two guys are mired in the minors, I believe. I was at the game at the ACC against the Leaves earlier in the year, and he played responsibly, but the notion of him playing alongside Zed came to my head as I watched him. I really believe he is the perfect fit, and he merits the promotion as he has played well. Needless to say, I was ecstatic when AS traded for him and Zed, remember what he used to do in the O. Its not too often that a young player learns to play well in his own zone early, and he has the potential to contribute offensively. Great to know there are so many other passionate Habs fans, without having to read through thoughtless rambling you read on other sites. Cheers Hey welcome aboard! I think you TO/Ontario guys outnumber us native MTLers here Bulis has always had the talent. When he made the Caps as a 19 year old, they said he was the heir apparent to Adam Oates. In one of his seasons...he had 31 points in 56 games. He was just always injured. Bad injuries when he was getting hot. Even last year, 19 points in 53 games while being a checker is not bad at all(over 0.33 PPG pace). He is only 24 so there is still plenty of time for him to become a good offensive player. With his mix of speed, hands, shot(the guy has a great slap shot we haven't seen yet), size(6 feet tall...bigger than most of our forwards) and defensive conscience, he would make a fine LWer for Saks and Zed in the future. This trade is going to be a great one for the Habs. Cheers
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