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Post by PTH on Nov 24, 2002 22:40:28 GMT -5
Grier + Corson for Cujo Must be Anson Carter who was an Avs pick then.... always confused those two for some reason.
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Post by Viper on Nov 24, 2002 22:52:33 GMT -5
So what you're saying is we have a small, aging team that isn't very good but the problem is that we expect them to be much better. Let's see, Savard took over an inexpensive, younger team that wasn't very good and had just started to draft some good players and now we have an expensive, older team that isn't very good and is continuing to draft good prospects. Savards team squeaks into the playoffs, Houle's team squeaks out of it. Savards team had a Hart trophy winner in goal, Houles team didn't. Savards team had 250 man games injury, Houles team had 500+. We had Houle and we now have Savard. A bit simplistic, but the comparison works, I think. great summary here seventeen i 100 percent absolutely agree. How can we be even remotely satisfied with what has happened to this team considering these fact's. difference between the 2 team's 4 point's both finished 18th in the standing's. With close to 300 extra man games lost to injury and no hart and vezina winng goalie plus close to 15 million less payroll the difference is 4 points All the changes and the increased payroll have amounted to nothing absolutely nothing as far as Position in the standings is concerned and i for one want to see a hell of alot better performance out of a team that is being paid an extra 15 million and that is significantly no scratch that tremendously healthier than it's predesecor. WE the fans are getting smokescreened to death.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Nov 25, 2002 1:17:56 GMT -5
I think it's easy to underestimate the difficulties in trying to put together a competitive team when the closet is bare -- and it was pretty bare when AS arrived. Despite having more money to spend, the UFA approach was and still is more difficult in Montreal. The guys he acquired that way all have their failings (except Juneau, imo) but the one thing they have in common is that they were willing to come here. They are exceptional in that regard. They are not ideal, and it's not ideal to have them under contract for one or two more years, but it's not the end of the world. It looks ugly now, and indeed it is, but it's not permanent.
We tend to see things in very immediate terms: and immediately what grabs you about this team are all the things that are obviously dysfunctional, like age and softness and being overpaid, but in terms of assessing where the team is going you can't use the installation of hired guns like Czerk, Audette, Quintal and others as the compass. In other words, you can't say "Savard won't use the kids because he hasn't so far used the kids". To me, he's always been underwhelmed by Ribeiro, Chouinard and Ward (among others) and has taken the view that the farm needed at least two and probably three years to be functional again. I have no problem with Hossa, Hainsey and Komisarek being down in Hamilton and I'd suggest that knowledgable hockey people would overwhelmingly side with keeping guys in the minors longer, if possible. So what I'm saying is that when the boys in Hamilton are ready they'll be really ready.
I'm still taking the long view because when Savard was hired I said to myself "four to five years". And I think we're pretty much right on schedule. I could scream at Savard for some of the moves and the present disgusting mess, but it's only because of my frustration with the present itself. Could he have a cheaper, more physical team on the ice? Absolutely. Would such a team be expected or likely to make it to the post-season? Doubtful in the extreme. Is the current bunch going to get into the playoffs and make any kind of noise? Maybe. Is "maybe" better than "extremely doubtful"? Absolutely. But it really matters little in the big picture, for the faithful. What matters is that Savard has not done a single thing to compromise the future. The drafting has been very good if not excellent. Only a hardened skeptic predisposed towards pessimism could look at the current Habs prospect list and not be encouraged. And as for developing the young talent, there's just no one who's really, obviously ready and who couldn't benefit from another year in the AHL. Hainsey? On the cusp, to be sure, but you can't make a case on a marginal example. Ward? Hurts the argument more than it helps it. Ribeiro? Same thing. And after that we get two groups: the Chouinards and Ryders and Descoteauxs, who are long, long, long shots to ever play regularly if at all in the NHL, and the good guys, all of whom are on the youngish side and will probably benefit more from playing big roles on good clubs than small roles in this media inferno....
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 25, 2002 8:40:51 GMT -5
Grier + Corson for Cujo Must be Anson Carter who was an Avs pick then.... always confused those two for some reason. The deal(I looked it up) was Grier+ Cujo for 2 first rounders Carter was a Caps pick...he went with Allison and Carey to Boston for Oates, Tocchet and Ranford
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Post by Habsolutely on Nov 25, 2002 9:25:17 GMT -5
how is overloading the right side with soft one dimensional player's a good thing chow for Asham so what if we apparently got the better player when he sits on the bench half the time because of the log jam of similar player's Audette and Vanallen for Rucinsky and Brunet. we got the better player ? it depends on what you mean by better because between Audette and Rustinky it's pretty much a wash niether are any good defensively and Audette is another guy who's been rotated out of the lineup because he's a small one dimensional forward like petrov and Chow. If you're going to improve the hockey club by moving Asham's and Rucinskies it doesn't take a genius to realize you don't acquire a bunch of stuff that already exist's on your team but fill holes and gaps that need filling. by making moves for a bunch of player's who all do the same thing he's created an even bigger monster. If I had to choose between Asham and Chow, I think the choice is very easy. But the thing that you fail to realize is that we couldn't get a mountain for Asham. So if you have a chance to deal a player like Arron who couldn't show any sign of being a permanent NHLer, you do it. Chow may not be playing like we want him to.. but making that deal made sense.. heck even Milbury said right away that he lost the deal.. ( well he loses every deal anyway ) As for the Stars deal, of course we got the better player. Audette and Rucinsky.. look at both players.. their career.. just look at last season.. even missing all year, Audette had his share of points while Rucinsky was struggling as his usual self. Donald was considered god last year thanks to his performance in the post-season and playoffs. Now, he sucks... well you can't have it both way. I don't mind Audette on the mind.. but I don't think he belongs on the first line.. we need a big and talented guy on that line.. however, like I've said, teams won't trade their talented monsters like that. I would better like to have, for now, players like Czer or Lindsay as my "depth players" rather than Xavier Delise or Eric Landry.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 25, 2002 9:35:35 GMT -5
The Chow for Asham swap was a weird one. It was a good trade if you look at talent for talent but in the grand scheme of things, it only made things more confusing bringing in another smallish offensive RW.
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Post by Habsolutely on Nov 25, 2002 9:43:32 GMT -5
Well, AS makes it very, very easy. You ever heard of Mike Grier and Brent Johnson ? Both were Av draft picks, yet they got dealt for spare parts before they had any real value. Dealing away a kid who seems to be doing OK is a losing proposition. In this case AS had to since he was perilously close to the 50 contract limit, but that's his own fault. Audette, Czerkawski, Bulis, Dackell, Perreault, Juneau, Petrov, Traverse..... all soft. Only 1 was there when AS took over, and he's the least soft of the bunch, IMO. I like some one of them, but when a GM gets the lot of them, don't say that it's not his fault we have a soft team. Komi was a 7th overall pick, he better look like a decent prospect !!! For the rest, AS's draft prowess is just theory, let's see results before we go on and on about the future we have. And what hoops did they have to go through ? Markov seemed to need to go through hell and back, and had a Robidas playing his wrong side and struggling playing ahead of him, and Théodore only got chances when Hack was out. OK, so we have no young superstars, so what ? I'm not asking for a top-line 50 goal scorer, we know he's not there. But would this be a worse team with Asham, Ward or Descoteaux getting some role player type ice time ? Anyhow, regardless of how the kids do, the NHLers ahead of them are so numerous and signed to garanteed 1-way contracts, it's basically impossible for them to hope to make the team. Ribeiro only made it because he'd have to be on waivers to go back to the minors... A director of player personnel has to be rated on his drafts, a GM has to be judged on how he runs the team, and AS has run it poorly. André Savard doesn't make anything easy.. he's doing the right thing.. he's the man for the job.. but some people look too deep trying to look for every little mistake that he can make. As for Chrys Dyment, I'm sure there's a better reason why he wasn't kept by the management. Savard said that youth would make this team better in the future. If this guy would have been everything the fans thought he would, Savard would have dumped someone to give Chrys the chance to be in the contracts limit.. but he wasn't worth the bother according to them.. they are the true judge of talent. All those acquisitions helped our team building depth.. which gave us a better chance to make the playoffs last year and win a round. Without them, our team wouldn't look that good. Just with Juneau, Dackell, Bulis, Perreault and Audette, we are better. Obviously, we aren't talking about Thornton, Lecavalier, Bertuzzi, but hey, good luck getting those guys out of their respective teams. Short term wise, this is a good solution.. trying to look for the best talent possible - and available - while waiting for our youth to build up and improve. When you have this strategy, not only it means that you wanna win, but also that you TRUST yourself and your scouts when it will be time to be at the draft table. I love this attitude. I disagree about Markov.. he was brought the right way. There were talking about him not having a great work ethic. They've let him known that he is a man and has to take his responsabilities.. or else, he wouldn't earn anything on our team. That's the way it is.. and look at Markov now.. at 23, he's one of the best defenseman in the league. You have superstar material right here. Looks like they've done fine with him. As for Theodore, well Roy as well was brought when they needed him because of an injury I believe... but there was no question about him being talented. Run it poorly ? Please.. Our team makes the playoffs, win a round.. and this year we are over ,500.. and still talk about how poorly he runs it. What do you want for a GM who was in charge for just 2 years ? You want to see who runs a team poorly ? Glen Sather.. that's a name you can bring in.. but not Savard.
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Post by Habsolutely on Nov 25, 2002 9:49:51 GMT -5
I'm still taking the long view because when Savard was hired I said to myself "four to five years". And I think we're pretty much right on schedule. I could scream at Savard for some of the moves and the present disgusting mess, but it's only because of my frustration with the present itself. Could he have a cheaper, more physical team on the ice? Absolutely. Would such a team be expected or likely to make it to the post-season? Doubtful in the extreme. Is the current bunch going to get into the playoffs and make any kind of noise? Maybe. Is "maybe" better than "extremely doubtful"? Absolutely. But it really matters little in the big picture, for the faithful. What matters is that Savard has not done a single thing to compromise the future. The drafting has been very good if not excellent. Only a hardened skeptic predisposed towards pessimism could look at the current Habs prospect list and not be encouraged. And as for developing the young talent, there's just no one who's really, obviously ready and who couldn't benefit from another year in the AHL. Hainsey? On the cusp, to be sure, but you can't make a case on a marginal example. Ward? Hurts the argument more than it helps it. Ribeiro? Same thing. And after that we get two groups: the Chouinards and Ryders and Descoteauxs, who are long, long, long shots to ever play regularly if at all in the NHL, and the good guys, all of whom are on the youngish side and will probably benefit more from playing big roles on good clubs than small roles in this media inferno.... Savard said it himself... it's his draft picks that will make the Canadiens competitive in the long run ( as every other team I guess) and he has a big word on who will be drafted, because he said that he travels quite often to watch the youngsters and also show a lot of confidence to Martin Madden and the scouts of the organisation.. Yeah, the actual team may not be perfect, but still, our record is very decent for a team in a mess like you say.. which is a big improvement compared to the past. I wouldn't like to see anyone else run this team other than André Savard.
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Post by Viper on Nov 25, 2002 15:54:20 GMT -5
If I had to choose between Asham and Chow, I think the choice is very easy. But the thing that you fail to realize is that we couldn't get a mountain for Asham. So if you have a chance to deal a player like Arron who couldn't show any sign of being a permanent NHLer, you do it. Chow may not be playing like we want him to.. but making that deal made sense.. heck even Milbury said right away that he lost the deal.. ( well he loses every deal anyway ) As for the Stars deal, of course we got the better player. Audette and Rucinsky.. look at both players.. their career.. just look at last season.. even missing all year, Audette had his share of points while Rucinsky was struggling as his usual self. Donald was considered god last year thanks to his performance in the post-season and playoffs. Now, he sucks... well you can't have it both way. I don't mind Audette on the mind.. but I don't think he belongs on the first line.. we need a big and talented guy on that line.. however, like I've said, teams won't trade their talented monsters like that. I would better like to have, for now, players like Czer or Lindsay as my "depth players" rather than Xavier Delise or Eric Landry. You missed the point i made completely and totally. It has nothing to do with talent and everything to do with the team. He traded asset's that could have been just as useful to the team as the ones he acquired. Asham may not have the goal scoring ability of chow but he would bring some grit and checking that we sorely miss you don't just make trades for the sake of acquiring talent. I suppose we should deal everyone we can for right winger's who are soft just because they score more goals than the guy we have The fact he went out and wasted those asset's is what pisses me off. The acquisition's don't make us a better team. Trades are made with the sole purpose of improving the team (with the exception of salary dumps ) and if salary is a non issue you do what it takes to improve the club. Those trades just created a huge problem and did not address any of the team's weaknesses in the area of size and toughness. And while not addressing those issue's he created a huge monster in the fact that we have too many soft one dimensional winger's on our right side. Habsolutely i don't mean to offend in any way don't get me wrong. We had enough discussions over at HF to supply an Army. ;D All i would like to ask is that you rebutt my point by helping me understand why it was a good idea to acquire them and show me how it actually improves us as a team because when it comes down to position in the standings we are no better off today than we we're this time last year. (with the exception of a point i think.) I understand what you're saying regarding talent but if it is talent that cannot be utilized on the team that we have because similar role playing talent already exists it makes no sense to make those types of acquisition's.
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Post by Habsolutely on Nov 25, 2002 19:56:26 GMT -5
You missed the point i made completely and totally. It has nothing to do with talent and everything to do with the team. He traded asset's that could have been just as useful to the team as the ones he acquired. Asham may not have the goal scoring ability of chow but he would bring some grit and checking that we sorely miss you don't just make trades for the sake of acquiring talent. I suppose we should deal everyone we can for right winger's who are soft just because they score more goals than the guy we have The fact he went out and wasted those asset's is what pisses me off. The acquisition's don't make us a better team. Trades are made with the sole purpose of improving the team (with the exception of salary dumps ) and if salary is a non issue you do what it takes to improve the club. Those trades just created a huge problem and did not address any of the team's weaknesses in the area of size and toughness. And while not addressing those issue's he created a huge monster in the fact that we have too many soft one dimensional winger's on our right side. Habsolutely i don't mean to offend in any way don't get me wrong. We had enough discussions over at HF to supply an Army. ;D All i would like to ask is that you rebutt my point by helping me understand why it was a good idea to acquire them and show me how it actually improves us as a team because when it comes down to position in the standings we are no better off today than we we're this time last year. (with the exception of a point i think.) I understand what you're saying regarding talent but if it is talent that cannot be utilized on the team that we have because similar role playing talent already exists it makes no sense to make those types of acquisition's. You are way too optimistic about what you just said.. Asham.. and grit ? When ? one game out of 10 ? I believed in Asham when he was here at the beginning.. but the more he played, the more it was obvious that it couldn't show the management that he deserved to stay. He had his good moments, but at the end, when you have players like Lindsay, Kilger and newly-acquired McKay who can do as good as he does.. and obviously better, getting a goal-scorer is a no-brainer. I'm not necessarily talking about talent, but about a player who could help our team while not costing much.. which is what Savard is doing. He tries to improve the club slowly, but surely while not touching one bit to his draft choices and especially prospects. As for not adressing the problem of toughness and grit.. you, who's a genius, how would you do it in a short period of time ? You think it's easy to get those kind of players ? Not only in his arrival, there was not a big guy on offense who could crack the lineup, but trade-wise, he didn't and still doesn't really have a lot of options. Be fair with him, he'll get us in the promise land..
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Post by PTH on Nov 25, 2002 21:14:45 GMT -5
The deal(I looked it up) was Grier+ Cujo for 2 first rounders Carter was a Caps pick...he went with Allison and Carey to Boston for Oates, Tocchet and Ranford Marc..... you got me about Grier, but please, take my word for it when I quote facts.... Carter was a Nordiques pick. Selected by Quebec Nordiques round 10 #220 overall 1992 NHL Entry Draft www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php3?pid=847As to Grier, Corson and Joseph - when you research, look deeper. The trade technically was for 2 firsts, but they were 2 first that EDM had just gotten for losing Corson as a RFA, it was a deal that was ready to go even before the picks were sent to EDM by the league as compensation for Corson. So STL was just getting their own picks back. I know you like to post Marc, and post a lot, every day, about whatever, but please research things properly if you're going to call someone on a fact - espcially a fact like whether it was Grier or Carter who was an Avs pick, since essentially my point remains the same, that giving up kids too early is not a good move.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 25, 2002 21:41:57 GMT -5
My bad. How did Carter get into the Caps org then? that doesn't change the fact the deal wasn't Grier+Corson for Cujo but Grier+Cujo for the 2 first rounders or Corson as you put it.
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Post by Viper on Nov 25, 2002 21:48:32 GMT -5
You are way too optimistic about what you just said.. Asham.. and grit ? When ? one game out of 10 ? I believed in Asham when he was here at the beginning.. but the more he played, the more it was obvious that it couldn't show the management that he deserved to stay. He had his good moments, but at the end, when you have players like Lindsay, Kilger and newly-acquired McKay who can do as good as he does.. and obviously better, getting a goal-scorer is a no-brainer. I'm not necessarily talking about talent, but about a player who could help our team while not costing much.. which is what Savard is doing. He tries to improve the club slowly, but surely while not touching one bit to his draft choices and especially prospects. As for not adressing the problem of toughness and grit.. you, who's a genius, how would you do it in a short period of time ? You think it's easy to get those kind of players ? Not only in his arrival, there was not a big guy on offense who could crack the lineup, but trade-wise, he didn't and still doesn't really have a lot of options. Be fair with him, he'll get us in the promise land.. again you missed the point how are we a better team because of the moves he has made thus far we are only 4 points improved from the team that was 2 year's ago and that was with 500 plus mangames lost to injury and no hart trophy goaltender. WE are currently on the same pace as last year so are not improved. address my origonal question why are we better the numbers don't lie and the situation today is no different than it was when he took over we're a borderline NHL playoff team. We've added 15 million to the payroll and gotten absolutely no increased performance from the hockey club. Reggie houle could have maintained the status quo if he had an additional 15 million in payroll and 300 less man games lost to injury hell you or i could have done that. He's great at the draft table but after that it's all question marks cerkawski may be the better player but is of no use to us so the trade was useless to the TEAM(it's a team game) when we already have 2 cerkawski clones in audette and petrov. A move like that is just stupid even if he trades one of the three one dimensional winger's the returns are gonna be no better than what we gave up. the TEAM is no better because of him currently and with the additional payroll and decreased injury status their is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for that, none, nadda, zip, zilch, zero. In the future we could be better and in all likelihood we will be because he is great at the draft. However If his lack of efficiency at acquiring and addressing the needs of the team persist(and there is no indication that it won't as thus far he has overwhelmingly proven that building the ingredients of a team is somewhere that he is very inneffective) the future could be just like the present where we have too much of one thing and not enough of another
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Post by montreal on Nov 26, 2002 2:22:30 GMT -5
again you missed the point how are we a better team because of the moves he has made thus far we are only 4 points improved from the team that was 2 year's ago and that was with 500 plus mangames lost to injury and no hart trophy goaltender. WE are currently on the same pace as last year so are not improved. address my origonal question why are we better the numbers don't lie and the situation today is no different than it was when he took over we're a borderline NHL playoff team. We've added 15 million to the payroll and gotten absolutely no increased performance from the hockey club. Reggie houle could have maintained the status quo if he had an additional 15 million in payroll and 300 less man games lost to injury hell you or i could have done that. He's great at the draft table but after that it's all question marks cerkawski may be the better player but is of no use to us so the trade was useless to the TEAM(it's a team game) when we already have 2 cerkawski clones in audette and petrov. A move like that is just stupid even if he trades one of the three one dimensional winger's the returns are gonna be no better than what we gave up. the TEAM is no better because of him currently and with the additional payroll and decreased injury status their is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for that, none, nadda, zip, zilch, zero. In the future we could be better and in all likelihood we will be because he is great at the draft. However If his lack of efficiency at acquiring and addressing the needs of the team persist(and there is no indication that it won't as thus far he has overwhelmingly proven that building the ingredients of a team is somewhere that he is very inneffective) the future could be just like the present where we have too much of one thing and not enough of another Viper, Viper, Viper, man come on, you got to be kidding me. WTF? Do you honestly believe that we are not a better team then we were 2 years ago? So making the playoffs meant nothing? Tell that to Gillette when he got to cash in those big paychecks for playoff revenue. I know we only made the 2nd round, but it was great just to see us in the playoffs again where we belong. Lets see how this season ends, as I truely believe we will be much better then we were 2 years ago. (47pts, worst Habs season in history-or one of). Savard/Therrien took this team from 47pts to 87pts, with great goaltending (thats not a bad thing at all), team depth (yes the payroll increased big time, but it was worth it to me as I was really getting tired of missing the playoffs). They got results no matter how you slice it, and Houle didn't. Please, I find it very painful when anyone brings up Houle's name and trys to tell me when are better off with him or the same. I wont make it through another few years of that crap that I had to watch in disbelief. How could you say that. Am I the only one that remembers losing to the leafs game in and game out (and they were blow outs, I can think of atleast 2 times we lost 6-1 ) Oh and about the trade, I can't stand Chow, but it's a trade that makes sense to me. Last year we scored 207 goals. I don't think anyone thought that Theo could put up the same numbers as last year, so it was clear we would need more scoring. Koivu was back but with 1 full season under his belt, and Audette's arm a bit of a question mark, getting a 35 goal scorer for someone that was NOT going to play and a 5th (we had 2 of them) its a gamble that Savard should take, but one that doesn't seem to be panning out. He tried it with Berezin. No biggie, we moved Savage and a 3rd for a 30 goal scorer. It didn't work but he had to try.
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Post by Viper on Nov 26, 2002 15:52:26 GMT -5
Viper, Viper, Viper, man come on, you got to be kidding me. WTF? Do you honestly believe that we are not a better team then we were 2 years ago? So making the playoffs meant nothing? Tell that to Gillette when he got to cash in those big paychecks for playoff revenue. I know we only made the 2nd round, but it was great just to see us in the playoffs again where we belong. Okay firstly the on ice product is pretty much the same as the 99/00 team the only difference is the fact we squeeked out a playoff spot and made the second round. Now the problem i have with that defense of savard and therrien is that i don't see them responsible for those events at all this team that made the playoff's finished with 4 more points than the 99/00 team while riding a 7 game win streak just before the end of the season on the back of a Hart trophy performing goaltender and emotional high from a captian who returned from cancer. Those events squeeked us into a spot and not the actual abilities of the coaching staff and management they are just reaping the rewards of something they are not responsible for. Lets see how this season ends, as I truely believe we will be much better then we were 2 years ago. (47pts, worst Habs season in history-or one of). Savard/Therrien took this team from 47pts to 87pts, with great goaltending (thats not a bad thing at all), team depth (yes the payroll increased big time, but it was worth it to me as I was really getting tired of missing the playoffs). They got results no matter how you slice it, and Houle didn't. Please, I find it very painful when anyone brings up Houle's name and trys to tell me when are better off with him or the same. I wont make it through another few years of that crap that I had to watch in disbelief. How could you say that. Am I the only one that remembers losing to the leafs game in and game out (and they were blow outs, I can think of atleast 2 times we lost 6-1 ) the last three season's went like this 83 70 and 87 points Not to nit pick but 70 is a far cry from 47 and the 70 point team was the first year of Savard(i have no problem with this drop considering the circumstances.) The 83 point team missed the playoff by a point on the last night of the year that was Houle's team. Now this team two years later that is apparently so much deeper and has so much more talent has only achieved an additional 4 point inprovement over that with 300 less man games lost to injury and 15 million additional payroll and this season is equal to the team from last year. How is it justifiable that with all the additional depth an additional 15 million inserted into the budget and a decrease in Injuries by 300 man games that we see only 4 more points and the same 18th position in the standings Number's don't lie and the number's are no better than what they were. Oh and about the trade, I can't stand Chow, but it's a trade that makes sense to me. Last year we scored 207 goals. I don't think anyone thought that Theo could put up the same numbers as last year, so it was clear we would need more scoring. Koivu was back but with 1 full season under his belt, and Audette's arm a bit of a question mark, getting a 35 goal scorer for someone that was NOT going to play and a 5th (we had 2 of them) its a gamble that Savard should take, but one that doesn't seem to be panning out. He tried it with Berezin. No biggie, we moved Savage and a 3rd for a 30 goal scorer. It didn't work but he had to try. Well now when you stop and think about it Petrov Audette and Cerk have missed a combuned 10 games or almost half the year because we can't fit them all in to the lineup hmmmm half the year with a guy out because we have three of the same one. The problem i have is not with the deals talent or theory it makes sense theoretically but from the big picture it was not something the team could use considering the roster that exists. Maybe there we're no other option's but don't frig up a roster for your coach just for the sake of making a deal. if your gonna gamble why not gamble on Hossa Or Ward at least that way you as GM can hold on to asset's that ccould be used top fill holes later when the season begin's. I understand your concept regarding saku and Audette being questionable because of injury but Savard never even gave that a chance to prove itself before making this deal. IT was something that could have easily waited. the Berezin and now the chow deal are blowing up in his face.
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