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Post by Viper on Nov 23, 2002 1:05:41 GMT -5
I think it's safe to assume he is exceeding everyone's expectations at this point after 20 games he leads our defense corps in points but here's something I bet nobody realized
his stats among NHL defensemen are as follow's.
his 15 points ties him for 4th in the league his 9 points at even strength is second best in the NHL only sergei zubov has more with 10 did anyone on this board expect markov to be a top 5 producer in the NHL among defensemen after the quarter pole. This is just awesome. He is accomplishing this while averaging only 21:30 of ice time 65th i say again 65th in the league. And we get Patrick Traverse in the dying minutes of a one goal hockey game. FIRE THERRIEN AND GREEN !!!!!
KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK ANDREI !!!!
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Post by Ranger Ranchod on Nov 23, 2002 1:09:13 GMT -5
I've been very impressed with Markov's play this year... I doubt he'll keep up the point-producing pace, but as long as he keeps getting better he'll be great. Then again, I didn't expect him to put up those kind of numbers this year either so what do I know... He might not have gotten the same attention Hainsey and Komisarek did but he's turning out to be just as important to the Habs future as the other 2. Good player.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 23, 2002 2:16:21 GMT -5
I don't see why he can't continue at this pace. It's not as if he's gotten a whack of points in just one game or two. He's been very consistent. And he's doing it all while carrying Green and MT on his back. Just imagine if the Habs had a system and were motivated on a consistent basis, then he'd pick up assists just for being the third guy to touch the puck instead of being the prime instigator on so many of his points. I think the additional strength has allowed him to do the things his head always wanted. And having Koivu, somone who thinks at the same level, helps too.
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Post by Ranger Ranchod on Nov 23, 2002 2:55:43 GMT -5
No inherent reason why a player can't keep up a certain scoring pace, but logic dictates that he will slow down. All players are prone to hot streaks and slumps and Markov is on a bit of a hot streak. What is he on pace for? 60-odd points? How many defencemen get 60 points a year? 1, maybe 2? He won't keep that pace up. Not a knock against the guy, just being realistic. He's not a 60 point guy, at least not yet.
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Post by montreal on Nov 23, 2002 3:40:06 GMT -5
No inherent reason why a player can't keep up a certain scoring pace, but logic dictates that he will slow down. All players are prone to hot streaks and slumps and Markov is on a bit of a hot streak. What is he on pace for? 60-odd points? How many defencemen get 60 points a year? 1, maybe 2? He won't keep that pace up. Not a knock against the guy, just being realistic. He's not a 60 point guy, at least not yet. I agree, I don't think he will keep this pace up, as he is on pace for 60 pts and thats hard to see him getting that. Markov already has 5 goals which is the same amount he had all of last year. (6 goals the year before). He is a +6 which leads the team (and his partner is 2nd with +4). He's also saved 4 or 5 goals that I have seen that were about to go in and he's gotten them out of danger. He's playing with more confidence and more of and edge, what is what he needs to do. Great vision, passing, and instincts on offence (you can see he has a forwards mentality) as he has scored some real highlight reel goals already. Its hard to believe that he's only 23, but he was the top defencemen in the RSL, so I guess he learned a lot over there, as I cant see Green giving him tons o knowledge.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 23, 2002 9:07:57 GMT -5
Seventen's prediction of ''another Lidstrom in 2 years'' may not be that far fetched after all.
What more can you say about Markov...I was listening to CKAC during the game Thursday(while watching it for some reason) and Rick Green told the radio guy(Rinfret)...
''you have NO idea how much Markov has improved''
''you have NO idea how good he is NOW''
''you have NO idea how good he will be''
Scary thought.
The only downside in all of this is, the Habs look at the way they developed Markov and think they did a great job.When, in reality, it could have been done a lot better and Markov could have been shinning like this late last season. Let's hope Hainsey and Komisarek don't have to go through the hurdles Markov had to go through..
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Post by Viper on Nov 23, 2002 10:09:01 GMT -5
Seventen's prediction of ''another Lidstrom in 2 years'' may not be that far fetched after all... Let's hope for the best on this one. What more can you say about Markov...I was listening to CKAC during the game Thursday(while watching it for some reason) and Rick Green told the radio guy(Rinfret)... ''you have NO idea how much Markov has improved'' ''you have NO idea how good he is NOW'' ''you have NO idea how good he will be'' Scary thought. .. Niether does Rick Green obviously or he would be giving him significantly more ice time. again there seems to be little reward for excellence around this team. A guy playing with such confidence and skills on offense is on the bench in the last minute in favour of travesty. I guess we wanted to make sure they didn't get an empty net goal in which either case Markov is still the better choice. The only downside in all of this is, the Habs look at the way they developed Markov and think they did a great job.When, in reality, it could have been done a lot better and Markov could have been shinning like this late last season. Let's hope Hainsey and Komisarek don't have to go through the hurdles Markov had to go through.. Yup I believe Markov has excelled inspite of the pathetic coaching but at the same time a really interesting point was brought up in the other thread regarding the quarter mark thoughts you made (i think it was that one anyway.) The whole concept of doing all the basic things well in your own zone need to be mastered first then the specialty aspects of the game that a player posesses are allowed to flow. Like what Komi was saying in his interview regarding hitting it's important to pick his spots and not just go looking for big hits make sure he's solid defensively first and foremost then work on laying guys out. Maybe the way the kids are handled is at least semi intelligent in that regard but still being handled somewhat inadequately IMO.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 23, 2002 10:35:14 GMT -5
Niether does Rick Green obviously or he would be giving him significantly more ice time. again there seems to be little reward for excellence around this team. A guy playing with such confidence and skills on offense is on the bench in the last minute in favour of travesty. I guess we wanted to make sure they didn't get an empty net goal in which either case Markov is still the better choice. Markov should be getting 25 minutes per game right now and not the 20 he is getting. When your 2 other left D are as bad as Dykhuis and Traverse, why not play the most improved player in the league more? It wasn't me...but I agree 100%. Good defence leads to good offence most of the time
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 23, 2002 12:50:28 GMT -5
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Post by montreal on Nov 23, 2002 14:00:04 GMT -5
Let's hope for the best on this one. Niether does Rick Green obviously or he would be giving him significantly more ice time. again there seems to be little reward for excellence around this team. A guy playing with such confidence and skills on offense is on the bench in the last minute in favour of travesty. I guess we wanted to make sure they didn't get an empty net goal in which either case Markov is still the better choice. Yup I believe Markov has excelled inspite of the pathetic coaching but at the same time a really interesting point was brought up in the other thread regarding the quarter mark thoughts you made (i think it was that one anyway.) The whole concept of doing all the basic things well in your own zone need to be mastered first then the specialty aspects of the game that a player posesses are allowed to flow. Like what Komi was saying in his interview regarding hitting it's important to pick his spots and not just go looking for big hits make sure he's solid defensively first and foremost then work on laying guys out. Maybe the way the kids are handled is at least semi intelligent in that regard but still being handled somewhat inadequately IMO. Big difference for Markov is that he had a few years in the RSL, whereas Hainsey/Komisarek spent 2 years in the NCAA playing around 30-35 games. RSL is a men's league with a few young guys (17-19 years old), and Markov was the top defencemen in that league, so he learned something over there for sure.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 23, 2002 15:20:30 GMT -5
I agree, I don't think he will keep this pace up, as he is on pace for 60 pts and thats hard to see him getting that. Markov already has 5 goals which is the same amount he had all of last year. (6 goals the year before). He is a +6 which leads the team (and his partner is 2nd with +4). He's also saved 4 or 5 goals that I have seen that were about to go in and he's gotten them out of danger. He's playing with more confidence and more of and edge, what is what he needs to do. Great vision, passing, and instincts on offence (you can see he has a forwards mentality) as he has scored some real highlight reel goals already. One could equally argue that he will be a 90 point a year man and that his pace for 60 is about right at this stage of his career. I remember various posts in the last couple of years where the discussion was around Markov getting his 20-25 points or so, with very limited ice time and playing under severe pressure from Green and MT to change his style. In other words, he was getting as many points as any of our D other than Brisebois, wearing a blindfold and with one hand tied behind his back. In my opinion, Markov will be a Zubrov at the worst and a Lidstrom/Leetch if everything falls into place. He has that much vision and imagination. I watched him live against Calgary when he had several turnovers where he passed the puck to exactly the right spot, but his teammate just didn't see the play developing that way and wasn't there to collect the pass. It was so obvious he was two moves minimum ahead of everyone else. Gosh, even JV has come around to liking him after being the Markov movie critic of the year. Let me finish up with one example of why I think he can be a star. There are a couple of things that usually set superstars apart from everyone else. Often they have uber-strength. Even wiry Lafleur was remarkably strong. The other factor is their panic threshhold. It's higher than everyone elses. Many times, they don't beat someone with a great set of dekes, they just hold on and hold on and hold and their opponent finally can't stand it any longer and commits to an action and then the star reacts to it. Against Pittsburgh, Markov made a set of simple plays that exhibited those factors. The Penguins were buzzing around the net, cycling away and Lemieux moved to the side and front of the net. Hack's water bottle had been knocked off the top of the net and was about 6 inches in front of the goal line. Markov came over from the other side, and before checking Lemieux, he casually knocked the water bottle back into the net, then turned, checked out the situation and tied up Lemieux's stick so he couldnt' knock the puck in. Most of you probably remember the tying up of Lemieux, but how about the water bottle, huh? That action yells out "Presence of mind and ice in his veins". I can't emphasize how much that one simple act raised my expectations for him, and I was already a pretty big booster. Should be fun watching him get better.
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 23, 2002 16:10:25 GMT -5
One could equally argue that he will be a 90 point a year man and that his pace for 60 is about right at this stage of his career. I remember various posts in the last couple of years where the discussion was around Markov getting his 20-25 points or so, with very limited ice time and playing under severe pressure from Green and MT to change his style. In other words, he was getting as many points as any of our D other than Brisebois, wearing a blindfold and with one hand tied behind his back. In my opinion, Markov will be a Zubrov at the worst and a Lidstrom/Leetch if everything falls into place. He has that much vision and imagination. I watched him live against Calgary when he had several turnovers where he passed the puck to exactly the right spot, but his teammate just didn't see the play developing that way and wasn't there to collect the pass. It was so obvious he was two moves minimum ahead of everyone else. Gosh, even JV has come around to liking him after being the Markov movie critic of the year. Let me finish up with one example of why I think he can be a star. There are a couple of things that usually set superstars apart from everyone else. Often they have uber-strength. Even wiry Lafleur was remarkably strong. The other factor is their panic threshhold. It's higher than everyone elses. Many times, they don't beat someone with a great set of dekes, they just hold on and hold on and hold and their opponent finally can't stand it any longer and commits to an action and then the star reacts to it. Against Pittsburgh, Markov made a set of simple plays that exhibited those factors. The Penguins were buzzing around the net, cycling away and Lemieux moved to the side and front of the net. Hack's water bottle had been knocked off the top of the net and was about 6 inches in front of the goal line. Markov came over from the other side, and before checking Lemieux, he casually knocked the water bottle back into the net, then turned, checked out the situation and tied up Lemieux's stick so he couldnt' knock the puck in. Most of you probably remember the tying up of Lemieux, but how about the water bottle, huh? That action yells out "Presence of mind and ice in his veins". I can't emphasize how much that one simple act raised my expectations for him, and I was already a pretty big booster. Should be fun watching him get better. One water bottle and now he's a Star? Bah, you're all wet.............. I look at this lineup and I see 5 people that I stil want to see in 4 years. Zed, Koivu, Theo, Rivet and Markov. Maybe Bulis and Souray. That's it, the rest can go and play on the railroad tracks or something. Watching last nights game between Detroit and Vancouver made me sick. The current Hab's ARE a pond hockey team compared to Detroit. As far as I can see it's only those 5 (7) that can remain the nucleus to build on. If Markov build on top of where he isnow we really have someone special. My huge problem with all of this is that Green sees this as an affirmation to his "methods". What methods? The kid needed a talking to in order to get his defensive priorities and now this coach'potatoe thinks he is The Master. Yup, I can hear Green yap all the way to TO, "take the pebble from my hand" where it really should be "take the cork out from my feeble mind".
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 23, 2002 16:56:38 GMT -5
but HA...i thought ''Markov's stickchecks would keep him in the minors for the rest of his career'' oh wait that was you ;D I agree on the 5/7 guys that will form the nucleus....hopefully some of our prospects add to that nucleus.
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Post by montreal on Nov 23, 2002 17:37:28 GMT -5
One water bottle and now he's a Star? Bah, you're all wet.............. I look at this lineup and I see 5 people that I stil want to see in 4 years. Zed, Koivu, Theo, Rivet and Markov. Maybe Bulis and Souray. That's it, the rest can go and play on the railroad tracks or something. Watching last nights game between Detroit and Vancouver made me sick. The current Hab's ARE a pond hockey team compared to Detroit. As far as I can see it's only those 5 (7) that can remain the nucleus to build on. If Markov build on top of where he isnow we really have someone special. My huge problem with all of this is that Green sees this as an affirmation to his "methods". What methods? The kid needed a talking to in order to get his defensive priorities and now this coach'potatoe thinks he is The Master. Yup, I can hear Green yap all the way to TO, "take the pebble from my hand" where it really should be "take the cork out from my feeble mind". The Habs are pond hockey compared to the wings, no kidding really, you mean the wings that are the best team in the league and one of the best teams on paper in a long time. Ok well then how about this. I was watching the Thrashers Florida game, and it made me sick. The Thrashers suck very badly, and they make the Habs look like Cup contedeners compared to them.
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Post by montreal on Nov 23, 2002 17:41:18 GMT -5
One could equally argue that he will be a 90 point a year man and that his pace for 60 is about right at this stage of his career. I remember various posts in the last couple of years where the discussion was around Markov getting his 20-25 points or so, with very limited ice time and playing under severe pressure from Green and MT to change his style. In other words, he was getting as many points as any of our D other than Brisebois, wearing a blindfold and with one hand tied behind his back. In my opinion, Markov will be a Zubrov at the worst and a Lidstrom/Leetch if everything falls into place. He has that much vision and imagination. I watched him live against Calgary when he had several turnovers where he passed the puck to exactly the right spot, but his teammate just didn't see the play developing that way and wasn't there to collect the pass. It was so obvious he was two moves minimum ahead of everyone else. Gosh, even JV has come around to liking him after being the Markov movie critic of the year. Let me finish up with one example of why I think he can be a star. There are a couple of things that usually set superstars apart from everyone else. Often they have uber-strength. Even wiry Lafleur was remarkably strong. The other factor is their panic threshhold. It's higher than everyone elses. Many times, they don't beat someone with a great set of dekes, they just hold on and hold on and hold and their opponent finally can't stand it any longer and commits to an action and then the star reacts to it. Against Pittsburgh, Markov made a set of simple plays that exhibited those factors. The Penguins were buzzing around the net, cycling away and Lemieux moved to the side and front of the net. Hack's water bottle had been knocked off the top of the net and was about 6 inches in front of the goal line. Markov came over from the other side, and before checking Lemieux, he casually knocked the water bottle back into the net, then turned, checked out the situation and tied up Lemieux's stick so he couldnt' knock the puck in. Most of you probably remember the tying up of Lemieux, but how about the water bottle, huh? That action yells out "Presence of mind and ice in his veins". I can't emphasize how much that one simple act raised my expectations for him, and I was already a pretty big booster. Should be fun watching him get better. 90 pts? Wow you should be his agent when he goes for contract this summer. If he hits 60 pts that will be great (since his career high is 24 pts or so). Were 20 games in, lets see what he's doing 60 games from now. Btw, I am and have been a big fan of Markov's over at HF.
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 23, 2002 18:24:58 GMT -5
but HA...i thought ''Markov's stickchecks would keep him in the minors for the rest of his career'' oh wait that was you ;D I agree on the 5/7 guys that will form the nucleus....hopefully some of our prospects add to that nucleus. I said, "if he does not improve on defensive abilities, Markov's "stick checks" would keep him in the minors for the rest of his career''. If you quote me at least get it right. I must of said that, what, 400 times? Was I wrong? Is he taking his defensive responsibilities seriously? Am I not yodeling his praises? My pappy always said, “spare the internet rod and ya spoil the junior posters”.
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Post by montreal on Nov 23, 2002 18:38:52 GMT -5
I said, "if he does not improve on defensive abilities, Markov's "stick checks" would keep him in the minors for the rest of his career''. If you quote me at least get it right. I must of said that, what, 400 times? Was I wrong? Is he taking his defensive responsibilities seriously? Am I not yodeling his praises? My pappy always said, “spare the internet rod and ya spoil the jumior posters”. HA, I missed your thoughts on Markov from the past, so I can't say anything. But I think Markov uses his stick check very effectivly. Last year, I was worried about his overall strength, as he seemed to use the stick check to often, and not enough body when it was needed. But mircales do happen, cause overnight he has seeming learned to cut back on the stick checks and take the body more often. He still uses the stick check well, which is good, but his phyiscal play is very impressive to me, as that's where I really thought he had to improve and it looks like he did.
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 23, 2002 18:50:27 GMT -5
HA, I missed your thoughts on Markov from the past, so I can't say anything. But I think Markov uses his stick check very effectivly. Last year, I was worried about his overall strength, as he seemed to use the stick check to often, and not enough body when it was needed. But mircales do happen, cause overnight he has seeming learned to cut back on the stick checks and take the body more often. He still uses the stick check well, which is good, but his phyiscal play is very impressive to me, as that's where I really thought he had to improve and it looks like he did. That's EXACTLY what he did Montreal. He did NOT take that body at all and that's when I made that statement. I couldn't stomach a defenceman who threatened to stop 230 pound forwards with a wave of a stick. This was during fall and up to X-mas It wasn't a popular thing to say, but old codgers like me call it as they see it.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 23, 2002 19:36:46 GMT -5
90 pts? Wow you should be his agent when he goes for contract this summer. If he hits 60 pts that will be great (since his career high is 24 pts or so). Were 20 games in, lets see what he's doing 60 games from now. Btw, I am and have been a big fan of Markov's over at HF. So, you're throwing down the gauntlet, eh Montreal? Ok, it's going to be "I told you so's" at 50 feet, come April. Better start shopping for good quality earplugs.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 23, 2002 19:47:22 GMT -5
I said, "if he does not improve on defensive abilities, Markov's "stick checks" would keep him in the minors for the rest of his career''. If you quote me at least get it right. I must of said that, what, 400 times? Was I wrong? Is he taking his defensive responsibilities seriously? Am I not yodeling his praises? My pappy always said, “spare the internet rod and ya spoil the jumior posters”. sheesh...........you even bothered to go through 100 pages to find the quote... and what's a jumior?
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Post by montreal on Nov 24, 2002 1:10:40 GMT -5
So, you're throwing down the gauntlet, eh Montreal? Ok, it's going to be "I told you so's" at 50 feet, come April. Better start shopping for good quality earplugs. What??? All I said was 90pts is not going to happen. 60pts is a strech, but its a possability for sure. Not many players go from 24 pts to 90 in one season. If you feel he can get 90pts, more power to ya. I'm a Habs fan and Markov is one of my favorite Habs (no not cause he's playing well now either) so no one will be more happy to see Markov get 50, 60, or 90 pts (well I would think Markov and his agent would be happier) but it's a strech for me to think that he can hit 90 pts. I dont think he can hit 60pts just yet, as I see him more around 45-50ish points, but the more he gets the better (well not for Gillette/Savard when its contract time this summer).
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 24, 2002 11:06:18 GMT -5
who was the last NHL d-man to have 90 points in a year?
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