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Post by Zhoken on Nov 21, 2002 22:46:19 GMT -5
During tonight's game I heard the announcers saying that Ottawa was looking to move Bonk. I know its unlikely, but it sure would be nice to get bonk in a habs jersey. Think there’s any chance of that?
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Post by GoMtl on Nov 21, 2002 23:40:59 GMT -5
they want to deal him because he was awarded a huge contract via arbitration, something the habs definitely don't need, and ottawa would want some hot prospects for him i'm sure. for what it would cost us, i sure hope AS doesn't make any mistakes with this one, and he likely won't
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Post by Zhoken on Nov 21, 2002 23:51:21 GMT -5
Really? how much did he get via abitration? (forgive my lack of salery knowledge)
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Post by GoMtl on Nov 22, 2002 0:03:12 GMT -5
3.2 mill a year it says on faceoff.com, i'm not sure what the full #'s are on the deal, but that's as much as Saku makes, and more than any other Hab other than him, hack, and theo. i believe it was the highest increase awarded by an arbitrator in the off season.
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Post by habwest on Nov 22, 2002 2:51:46 GMT -5
Rivet- next year around $3M I think, 14 points average over past 4 years, +/- average 0 Brisebois- $4M, 29 points, -8 Koivu- $3.3M, 42 point average for 4 years prior to last year, +2.5 Theo- $5M, just one big year Hackett- $3.6M Perreault- $2.8M, 49 points, +2 Audette- $3M, 51 points in 4 years prior to last year, +4 Czerkawski- $2.6M, 55 points, -14.5 Gilmour- $2.2M, 52 points, -7 Juneau- $2M, 37points, -1
Bonk- $3.2M, 55 points, +11
I didn't count Koivu's and Audette's seasons last year due to the exceptional circumstances but I did count previous seasons when Koivu missed games because I think that ruggedness is a significant factor in determining bang for the buck. Bonk has averaged 79 games over the last four seasons and Koivu 53 over the four seasons prior to last year. Taking this year's salary that would be $69,000 per game for Koivu vs $41,500 per game for Bonk.
So Bonk is at about the level of Rivet, Audette and Koivu but below Brisebois and Theo, salary wise, which based on production delivered really isn't out of whack with the Habs salary structure. Frankly, $3.2 M these days isn't a huge salary. Compare this to Holik's $9.6M, 54 points and +12 and it looks like a bargain actually.
Looking at the centers we have:
- one old guy forced to play wing and probably gone by next year in Gilmour.
- one brittle little guy with speed and skill in Koivu.
- another brittle little guy, scawnier than Koivu, with marginal speed and who isn't even yet established in Ribs.
- a smallish center who's a good scorer and great face off man but who's game is finess, not muscle, and who's not very good defensively, in Perreault.
- an ageing average sized vet in Juneau who's asked to play vs the moose size centers in the East.
In Bonk you have a moose center who plays against the other mooses and averages 55 points and a +11 per year and who will turn 27 in January, so he's just into his prime. That is something this team dearly needs and will never go far in the playoffs without.
I dunno, sounds kind of appealing to me.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 22, 2002 6:48:16 GMT -5
Not a big Bonk fan..
I'd pass for now...he never does anything in the playofffs...
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Post by The Habitual Fan on Nov 22, 2002 10:09:40 GMT -5
Rivet- next year around $3M I think, 14 points average over past 4 years, +/- average 0 Brisebois- $4M, 29 points, -8 Koivu- $3.3M, 42 point average for 4 years prior to last year, +2.5 Theo- $5M, just one big year Hackett- $3.6M Perreault- $2.8M, 49 points, +2 Audette- $3M, 51 points in 4 years prior to last year, +4 Czerkawski- $2.6M, 55 points, -14.5 Gilmour- $2.2M, 52 points, -7 Juneau- $2M, 37points, -1 Bonk- $3.2M, 55 points, +11 I didn't count Koivu's and Audette's seasons last year due to the exceptional circumstances but I did count previous seasons when Koivu missed games because I think that ruggedness is a significant factor in determining bang for the buck. Bonk has averaged 79 games over the last four seasons and Koivu 53 over the four seasons prior to last year. Taking this year's salary that would be $69,000 per game for Koivu vs $41,500 per game for Bonk. So Bonk is at about the level of Rivet, Audette and Koivu but below Brisebois and Theo, salary wise, which based on production delivered really isn't out of whack with the Habs salary structure. Frankly, $3.2 M these days isn't a huge salary. Compare this to Holik's $9.6M, 54 points and +12 and it looks like a bargain actually. Looking at the centers we have: - one old guy forced to play wing and probably gone by next year in Gilmour. - one brittle little guy with speed and skill in Koivu. - another brittle little guy, scawnier than Koivu, with marginal speed and who isn't even yet established in Ribs. - a smallish center who's a good scorer and great face off man but who's game is finess, not muscle, and who's not very good defensively, in Perreault. - an ageing average sized vet in Juneau who's asked to play vs the moose size centers in the East. In Bonk you have a moose center who plays against the other mooses and averages 55 points and a +11 per year and who will turn 27 in January, so he's just into his prime. That is something this team dearly needs and will never go far in the playoffs without. I dunno, sounds kind of appealing to me. Gee HabsWest...you sure your a Habs Fan?? I have never really cared for looking at a players point total only and judging if they are worth the salary they are paid. There are so many other aspects that go into a player then how often they score. Rivet and Brisebois are defensemen so they can be counted out, Gilmour and Juneau are asked to play a defensive game so that affects all point totals, so they cannot be compared. Hackett and Theodore are goalies...nuff said. As for Koivu, Audette, Perreault, Czerkawski then yes he is a similar type of role making similar type of money but then you would have to give up alot to get him. They wouldn't want a aging forward or a goalie back so that leaves the habs kind of out on this player.
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Post by habwest on Nov 22, 2002 19:19:12 GMT -5
Well, my point on salaries was wrt the salary structure, ie he isn't making something that is way out of line for the Habs. Also I think that saying he's making a "huge" salary is an exageration.
Regarding what it would take I wasn't addressing that, simply that I thought the guy is the kind of player that habs badly need. I do agree though that the Sens would want a lot but then when doesn't a scarce and highly desirable commodity cost a lot. My point was that the Habs aren't going to go that far in the playoffs without a player like Bonk. A bunch of midgets at center isn't going to cut it.
As to Bonk's playoff scoring that is a good point. He's average .31 points a game, Koivu .79 and Perreault .59. But we shouldn't forget he usually gets that job of checking the other team's big line so he plays much more of a defensive role than Koivu or Perreault.
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Post by GoMtl on Nov 22, 2002 19:28:31 GMT -5
when i said huge contact via arbitration, i mostly meant compared to his old contract. he was making 1.8 now he's getting 6.7 over two years (3.2 this season 3.5 next). for how much we'd have to give up for him, i don't think he's worth it. although i don't like bonk very much so i admit i am also biased.
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Post by BCHab on Nov 22, 2002 19:52:42 GMT -5
I would take the Bonk rumour with a large grain of salt. Bruce Garrioch, my favourite Strachan wannabe, has been claiming a Bonk trade is imminent for years now and it still hasn't happened. Why should now be any different? Salary aside, the guy is playing hurt so I don't think teams will touch him until he's regained his health. Furthermore, I'm not sure how much of an improvement he would be on our existing centres since he does have a habit of disappearing for periods of time. Don't we have enough magicians on the team already? There's better out there at that price I'm sure. Cheers.
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Post by Pam on Nov 22, 2002 20:41:39 GMT -5
Not a big Bonk fan.. I'd pass for now...he never does anything in the playofffs... Me neither, Marc. I don't want him on the Leafs either. The Sens are famous for falling flat in the Playoffs. Granted the Leafs haven't done that much better, but at least the Leafs have reached the Conference Finals 2 times in the last 4 years, and Round 2, 2 of the last 4 years. The Sens usually don't make it past Round 1. Bonk would just make the Leafs and Habs worse.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 22, 2002 20:45:00 GMT -5
Well, I wouldn't be that harsh but when the pressure is on, the guy dissapears.
But in the regular season he is solid
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Post by Pam on Nov 22, 2002 20:54:31 GMT -5
Well, I wouldn't be that harsh but when the pressure is on, the guy dissapears. But in the regular season he is solid Regular Season isn't as important as Playoffs, so you don't want all your players to be good regular season players and none of them good in the Playoffs. The teams have enough regular season players without adding him. Our teams would be smart to stay away from him and make sure they have a good balance of regular season players and playoff players. We all know just because you win your division doesn't mean you will go on to win the Conference. Adding another like Bonk doesn't help that much.
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Post by GoMtl on Nov 22, 2002 21:38:26 GMT -5
Regular Season isn't as important as Playoffs, so you don't want all your players to be good regular season players and none of them good in the Playoffs. The teams have enough regular season players without adding him. Adding another like Bonk doesn't help that much. Adding another proven regular season scorer doesn't help that much unless your team has been awful for the most part this season, getting almost all of their offense from two players. (IE the LEAFS!) Playoff scoring doesn't matter if your team doesn't qualify, and to do that the Leafs just might need a Radek Bonk type player, without Roberts they seem to only have two offensive weapons. (3 half of the time when Renberg shows up, he's the equivelant of Chow or Audette as far as showing up is concerned).
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 22, 2002 21:47:58 GMT -5
I'd take Radek Bonk, but an Ottawa/Montreal trade just doesn't seem feasible. I think we'd be better with him, but at who's expense?
We certainly have enough centres. Where would he play? Gilmour may not be having a stellar season, but if he's in the lineup he has to play. Juneau is doing what he's being paid to do. Perreault is doing what is expected of him and seems to be on a tear of late. Saku is, well, Saku. Mike Ribeiro has to see ice time.
One of these guys would have to be moved with another player in order to land Bonk. Oh yeah, there's that inter-divisional trade thing again; it would just be too hard to put together especially if it involved Ottawa and Bonk.
Nice to think about though. Bonk would help. How could he not? Cheers.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 22, 2002 21:52:32 GMT -5
and why would Ottawa deal him?
White is barely a number 2 center Fisher is more of a checker Spezza is too young to be a number 1 Van Allen...you know what he brings
Unless they get a center in return...
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Post by Ranger Ranchod on Nov 23, 2002 0:20:43 GMT -5
Most of these Bonk rumours come courtesy of that clown Bruce Garrioch who writes for the Ottawa Sun, if I'm not mistaken........ guy is a joke as a writer, every other week he has Bonk on the move somewhere, been like that for at least a year now. In his most recent column he says the Rangers are interested because they need depth at center... yeah, Lindros, Holik, Nedved, Messier... Saperlipopette, when Holik comes back we're going to have move someone (likey Nedved) to the wing, but yes Bruce, we REALLY need some help down the middle.
Anyways, Habs could use Bonk's production, I don't think his salary is that outrageous, he's been a consistent performer for a few years now, still relatively young... but a bit too passive for my tastes. Habs need to look for someone with a little more muscle, and a little more something between the legs, an area Bonk is found to be lacking in.
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Post by habwest on Nov 23, 2002 0:49:04 GMT -5
I guess I'm a bit perplexed about the line of reasoning that we shouldn't consider Bonk because "we have enough centers" and because Ribiero "has to see some ice time". We have a bunch of midget or smallish or soft centers (barring Juneau) who can't handle the big centers in the East (even Juneau has problems here). To me we don't have enough of the right kind of centers, ie with some size and strength as well as skill. As a matter of fact we don't have any at all. Kilger can play center (we should be grooming him now to replace Juneau by playing him as the 4th line center IMO) but he isn't much of a scoring threat. What we have to do is get the right kind of players on this team to make it a Cup contender, not worry about already having "too many centers" or "finding playing time for Ribiero". Ribiero is not going to help this team become a Cup contender. A Bonk, or someone like him, will. Now you can make the argument that Bonk isn't the right big talented center to get because he disappears in the playoffs. That I can buy as it's backed up by history although that could also change. Let's not forget that he's still relatively young. But just focusing on we have to do this or that with the crowd we now have at center doesn't seem to make much sense for me from a longer term perspective. Center is one of the major weaknesses on this team both looking at what we now have and what we have in the system and will need a major retooling if the Habs are serious about devloping further. In other words, we need to look beyond the existing center players/prospects for the long term success of the team. Cheers.
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Post by Viper on Nov 23, 2002 0:55:43 GMT -5
hats off to ya habwest you hit the nail right on the head the lack off size and skill up the middle is killing us we have skill without size but in the east you need both and considering our winger's are midget's as well it doesn't make it any easier for the small center's. Bonk would absolutely be a welcome addition but the fact it's the sens it is unlikely anything would get done we can't offer them anything that will help unless it's a key cog for our future................ No thanks we aren't winning it all this year anyhow.
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