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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 22, 2002 17:05:27 GMT -5
From the fourth period:
According to South Florida's Sun-Sentinel, Panthers GM Rick Dudley continues to talk to fellow general managers in hope of improving his team. "If somebody said the right thing to me today, it could be imminent, but I wouldn't say I feel something's imminent," Dudley said. With the Panthers about to get Branislav Mezei back from a broken ankle, the Panthers will soon have too many defensemen. Brad Ference has been rumored to be on the trading block and the Montreal Canadiens are said to be highly interested.
Florida has a ton of d-man:
Jay bo Yushki Ozo Mezei Majesky Ferrence Ward +Ulanov
Plus top prospects like Novak and Krajicek in the pipeline
Kilger+ for Ferrence is a deal I would do in a flash. Goodbye Q, I am sure some french media has a job for you.........
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Post by Viper on Nov 22, 2002 17:58:21 GMT -5
Do we need defensemen like ferrence. I don't know other than for a stop gap measure to be honest and here's my train of thought incase your thinking WTF has Vipe lost his mind. We have three good guys in Markov Rivet and Briser a guy returning in Souray and a guy who for some reason has fallen off the map in Dykhuis. That's 5 we have quintal traverse buillon Hainsey who all could fill in the 6th spot and press box no problem. I think if Kilger is gonna move it should be with Hack for a decent left winger not a great one but somebody with some size and mediocre skills on the second line. Either that or a center with some Meat on his bones. To wreak havoc in front of the net.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 22, 2002 18:29:17 GMT -5
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 22, 2002 19:25:54 GMT -5
Well, as with any trade, a lot depends on the cost. Kilger + for Ference? Depends on the + I guess, and if we are all ready to live with Kilger playing an important role down in the Sunshine State, while we all wonder why he couldn't do it here...
One thing on Ference - I actually remember him from a World Junior Championship a few years back, and the only reason I remember him was because he was benched, and the announcers were saying it wasn't because of his bad play, but because they were afraid he was going to snap and cost the team a bad penalty or three. Not sure if he as calmed down a little bit, but he had a very, very short fuse, and would take all kinds of bad penalties.
Sometimes its good to have a guy like that on your team, keeps the other team on edge, not knowing whats going to set him off (Dave Manson was always the perfect example). But in the "new" NHL, and with our PK sucking the way it is, he would definetely get noticed for all the wrong reasons, especially at the beginning of his Montreal (hypothetically speaking) career.
But I would take him.
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Post by montreal on Nov 22, 2002 19:31:33 GMT -5
Well one thing that has me concerned with us getting Ference, is that he doesn't have much experience, so at 23, I would think Hainsey wont see the NHL for the rest of this year. I know they play different sides, but I don't see us having 2 23 year olds and a 21 year old making up half our defence.
But I wouldn't mind seeing Quintal hang them up, but the return of Souray could be just what he needs. Last years playoffs, they were very good together, and Souray should be back in 4-6 weeks. I would rather see Dykhuis go, as he is really pissing me off. (-2 last night, Quintal/Traverse both +1)
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 22, 2002 19:44:14 GMT -5
Well, as with any trade, a lot depends on the cost. Kilger + for Ference? Depends on the + I guess, and if we are all ready to live with Kilger playing an important role down in the Sunshine State, while we all wonder why he couldn't do it here... One thing on Ference - I actually remember him from a World Junior Championship a few years back, and the only reason I remember him was because he was benched, and the announcers were saying it wasn't because of his bad play, but because they were afraid he was going to snap and cost the team a bad penalty or three. Not sure if he as calmed down a little bit, but he had a very, very short fuse, and would take all kinds of bad penalties. Sometimes its good to have a guy like that on your team, keeps the other team on edge, not knowing whats going to set him off (Dave Manson was always the perfect example). But in the "new" NHL, and with our PK sucking the way it is, he would definetely get noticed for all the wrong reasons, especially at the beginning of his Montreal (hypothetically speaking) career. But I would take him. I dunno BC, the guy as got only 26mins in 20 games this year (with the new rules). That's about what..1 minor every two games or so... Not too bad. As you said, having a guy or 2 with a little bit of a wild edge to their play wouldn't be a luxury here...
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 22, 2002 19:51:25 GMT -5
our down the stretch defence could be:
Souray-Briser Markov-Rivet Hainsey-Ferrence
Much better than the current one for sure...
by the way wasn't Ferrence the one who got into a fight with Isbister last year, went to the box and started squirting water at Isbister FROM the penalty box? LOL
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Post by Viper on Nov 22, 2002 20:10:04 GMT -5
But I wouldn't mind seeing Quintal hang them up, but the return of Souray could be just what he needs. Last years playoffs, they were very good together, and Souray should be back in 4-6 weeks. Yup i agree and i think that's why Savard is riding out this storm i have to believe that if Souray wasn't sitting on the IR something would have been done by now. any move that get's made before Souray return's would only be an insurance maneuvre. Seems to me the return of Bouillon "just incase" is what Andre needed efore Souray comes back and a real evaluation can be made. I would rather see Dykhuis go, as he is really pissing me off. (-2 last night, Quintal/Traverse both +1) you too eh ;D
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 22, 2002 20:12:33 GMT -5
by the way Bouillon can't even crack an AHL lineup(albeit a great one with plenty of great prospects)...I think that shows you where he belongs...
7th d-man at best
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Post by GoMtl on Nov 22, 2002 20:42:49 GMT -5
i'd definitely be diggin' ference in habs apparel... that is if we didn't have to give up any key prospects for him.
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Post by Viper on Nov 22, 2002 22:49:47 GMT -5
HMMM that little hamster wheel started turning again and i decided to go do some poking around about this kid Ferrence did you know in the last 2 years of his WHL career he put up 85 points in 105 games while racking up 454 minutes in penalties. It seems this D-man is the kind of guy we may be able to use after all.
Let's follow an intersting trend shall we. Many times i've seen it noted that you build from the net out when putting together a franchise and well AS is in that similar mode the goaltending is our most solid position and the defense is second (okay right now it's scary but it's not specifically the guy's on the blueline's fault considering the help they get from the forward's. On the blueline we have signings of Briser and Rivet to longer deals the incoming and arriving presence of Markov Hainsey and Komisarek. the injury prone souray and a few huge question marks in Quintal, Traverse, Dykhuis We don't have a real mean streak guy presently with any talent and this kid may have alot more to offer than just his fists. He only has as already mentioned 26 minutes in 20 games. Maybe if the price isn't very high it would be worth a look.
Rivet, Brisebois, Markov, Hainsey, Souray, Ference, Komisarek That would make one hell of a defense corps for the future and then you work on the forwards and with a few guys in the system already just keep drafting well and filling the stable. eventually guys like quintal dykhuis and other's will be retired or moved for the mid to late round picks that we gave up anyhow.
It may not be that bad an idea depending on what the price is.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 22, 2002 22:54:18 GMT -5
Or a guy like Kloucek.
We need a mean SOB on defence who has the size to hit everyone in site and will defend his mates while playing solid defence. Ference is one and Kloucek can be one.
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 22, 2002 23:15:55 GMT -5
Let's take a quick peeek at the near future and see what we have.
Komi and Ference = 2 legbreakers Souray and Rivet = 2 crushers Marko and Haibsey = 2 rushing defenseman. Q-ball and Travest = 2 hot dog vendors Breezy and Ducky = 2 toilet bowl inspectors
Look good to me.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 22, 2002 23:45:27 GMT -5
I personally think Q-ball is better served for subway's and Traverse for long PASTA's but what the heck ;D
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Post by PTH on Nov 22, 2002 23:46:43 GMT -5
Let's take a quick peeek at the near future and see what we have. Komi and Ference = 2 legbreakers Souray and Rivet = 2 crushers Marko and Haibsey = 2 rushing defenseman. Q-ball and Travest = 2 hot dog vendors Breezy and Ducky = 2 toilet bowl inspectors Look good to me. With the season Brisebois is putting together, after a pretty good season last year too, I think that he doesn't deserve cheap shots like that. In fact, I think Brisebois is proving right a lot of the people who've had faith in him over the years.
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 23, 2002 0:01:53 GMT -5
With the season Brisebois is putting together, after a pretty good season last year too, I think that he doesn't deserve cheap shots like that. In fact, I think Brisebois is proving right a lot of the people who've had faith in him over the years. Cheap shots? How about 4.3 million dollar worth of cheap shots. The guys gets paid to be the best defenseman on the ice but Markov and Rivet are going by him. When he plays at the level that he is paid for then I will stop bashing him and start to yodel his praises. Meanwhile, I will retain my right to be a mean, short tempered, cheap shot artist. Think of me as the Tucker of posters.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 23, 2002 0:23:01 GMT -5
In his -30 year, PTH, Brisebois deserved every criticism you could levy at him. He was, with apologies to a former quality poster Yeti, abominable that year. He got tossed around like a rag doll in his own end and he made better passes to opponents than to his teammates. Having said that...he is much improved this year. Which surprises the heck out of me. Not that his passing is generally better, but that he isn't as great a liability in his own end. He's still no Charles Atlas, but he's average and that's ok. His +/- this year has been hurt because Dykhuis has been spending too much time in the Red Light district. That's a reference to the goal light, not the seedy side of town. This year, Breezer is certainly not in the Quintal/Traverse league. (Why does my skin crawl when I mention Q's name?). If he's worth $4MM a year then I'm worth $5MM a year (of course, no one's paying me $5mm a year since I don't work for GG). But he's having a good solid year and HA is not willing to forgive him yet for that putrid performance 2 years ago.
More to the point of Ference, he'd be a good addition. Take Quintal out, put Ference in, we lose nothing on the skill side and we gain kilotons in team respect and in space for Theo and Hack. Well worth a Kilger +. Why not Kilger and Czerkawksi? We waive Quintal and that frees up space for Ward and a big savings in salaries. Maybe we ask for a 2nd or 3rd rounder too. Now that would be a fine Christmas present.
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Post by Ranger Ranchod on Nov 23, 2002 0:39:22 GMT -5
Ference is a good fit for the Habs.... I don't know what's up with him this year, if you drafted him to be your goon in your pool you're obviously shaking your head at him, as am I. He really took over last year with Laus out, Keenan gave him extra responsibility and he was really playing better hockey. He's very young and big, and we all know how long the big guys take to develop. Time to give up on Kilger.... there comes a time when one has to stop using the word 'potential' and introduce the word 'bust' and that time has come for Chad. If they take Kilger for Brad you gotta jump all over that, no doubt about it.
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Post by Viper on Nov 23, 2002 0:39:41 GMT -5
YOu mean the jason Ward who's leading the Ahl In scoring.
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Post by Vichab on Nov 23, 2002 2:27:18 GMT -5
i would like ferrence as he seems to offer a tough young dman with good potential and you can't argue with his salary - 3/4 million $. But i'm not prepared to give up on kilger; firstly because i still think he might turn into something but more importantly we need his size up front right now. i don't see gaining by giving up our biggest forward for a big dman. AS has to get rid of one of the smurfs and maybe even 2 and Q would be outstanding. While Kilger may not always plat big hen Kilger wants to use his size he is basicly the only guy on our team who can. Mckay has been a bust so far.
While i appreciate the anticipation in getting Souray back i think many are over rating his potential contribution. Yes he has had spurts of fine play but when all is said and done he hasn't shown any consistancy. And while he may be better than any of The Weak Three I'm not overly excited about his return. He may deliver but i think it is just as likely that he doesn't. In fact if the offer was Ferrence for Souray i just might take it given Ferrence potential, he's not injury prone and is prepared to fight which notwithstanding Souray's size i haven't seen all that much robust play except for a spurt in the playoffs. I know alot of you are high on Souray but I'm not so sure it's well founded given his record.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 23, 2002 9:24:08 GMT -5
Cheap shots? How about 4.3 million dollar worth of cheap shots. The guys gets paid to be the best defenseman on the ice but Markov and Rivet are going by him. Brisebois has been much better than Rivet this year
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Post by JacquesInFL on Nov 23, 2002 10:21:32 GMT -5
I have seen Ferrence play in person a few times, and I rarely came away impressed. Yes, he's only 23 but his reads are slow and I doubt, in the short-term (2002-03), he would really solidify Habs d-corps.
Also, the Habs and Panthers do not appear like perfect trading partners since we have too few young, cheap, fast, nhl-size bodies among our forwards and that is basically the mold Florida wants.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 23, 2002 15:55:11 GMT -5
Thanks Jacques. I had the feeling something was missing in Ferrence's game, otherwise he might be a bigger blip on the radar screen. I'm still interested , though, because the comparison for us is Quintal. Stephane's reads are in the calibre of thin books (you know, Italian war heroes, English delicacies, American humility), so Ferrence doesn't have to be that good to be better than our personal pylon. And he is much, much tougher, younger, cheaper and might actually improve. Stephane's passing skills could form a new 'thin book'. Anything else you could comment on from your admittedly brief encounter?
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 23, 2002 16:05:58 GMT -5
Brisebois has been much better than Rivet this year yup. While Quintal and Traverse has largely stunk, Dykhuis and Rivet are not too far from them on the stinking scale... Brisebois and Markov are miles ahead of the rest.
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 23, 2002 16:27:55 GMT -5
Go ahead, hurt me.....
One day, I have to siit down and give myself a full frontal lobotomy so I can forget what real defenseman should play like. Like I mentioned in another post, I was watching Lidstrom and Chelios play an "average" game then I kept having flashbacks to OUR defence. The pain was unbearable without Molson's medication.
Sure, Markov is playing better but Travesty, Dorky and Q-ball are stinking up the joint. Why do you think that our pk is DEAD LAST in a watered down NHL? Brisebois? A number two on a good team and a top six for Detroit.
I guess it’s a matter of perception and expectation. To me, Brisebois glass is half empty and it has a hole on the bottom……………<br>
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 23, 2002 17:04:26 GMT -5
PK is last because we have faced the top 2 PP's in the league 5 times(and other good PP's like Dallas, Detroit, St Louis,etc) already and we keep taking ridiculous dumb penalties...plus we have a brain dead coach who used a softish/horrible defensively forward on the PK for a few games
and our 2nd pairing has a righty d-man(Rivet) on the left side and Q on the right side....which means trouble....
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Post by montreal on Nov 23, 2002 17:58:08 GMT -5
yup. While Quintal and Traverse has largely stunk, Dykhuis and Rivet are not too far from them on the stinking scale... Brisebois and Markov are miles ahead of the rest. I agree. I think Brisebois has been good considering Dykhuis has been really painful to watch. Markov and Brezzy are our 2 best defencemen. I would rank our defencemen as follows 1. Brisbois 2. Markov 3. Rivet 4. Traverse Ouch 5. Quintal 6. Dykhuis If and its a very big if, but if Quintal and Dykhuis can regain last years form, and Souray comes back and its the Souray from the playoffs, not his evil twin that sometimes shows up pretending to be Sheldon except he doesn't hit anything, and his shots go way over the net (lucky for the fans they put the netting up). If these things happen, our defence might not be so bad, as Traverse would be where he belongs, back in the press getting Savard his coffee (I being harsh, the guys a good 7th defencemen, too bad for us he's our 4th-5th), and hopefully Souray/Quintal can take off where they left off in the playoffs, but I wonder, as that seems to be a BIG IF. Also Dykhuis really sucks, and I am getting tired of his off the boards/glass passing/icing, and his mental mistakes are happening to often. He really needs a few games/weeks/months off to sit and watch the game from the stands.
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