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Post by clear observer on Oct 28, 2002 12:39:07 GMT -5
We've been running with this "proboards" discussion-board format for some nine months now. For the most part, it has been fairly stable with a few glitches and down-time here and there (including today). As you already know, it has a vast array of cool features and is fairly speedy to load. There is, however, a drawback that remains very prominent, and that is the inability to see all responses at a glance...the "threaded look". With the threaded look it is my opinion that valued posters that are not necessarily "very active" posters don't get the exposure that they should. Their posts get "lost in the shuffle" or "overwhelmed". This has been an obstacle that has increasingly bothered me since the change to this format, and I know others as well. Also, another major obstacle is that I fear that as a result of moving the boards to "proboards" servers, many, if not all of you have bookmarked the board as opposed to the main site page at www.habsrus.com, and thusly, stories and columns also do not and did not get the hits that they are/were deserved of. I cannot, in good conscious, ask Phil Duyck to continue to work for 5 hours on a game report only to have 9 people read it...as well as any submitted work from our columnists. Writers need readers to inspire them. Similarly, I cannot re-start a recruiting campaign for any new writers for the same reason. Perhaps we should abandon the "exclusive content" idea altogether and run solely as a discussion board? I dunno. Any thoughts or ideas on this would be greatly appreciated. I'll run a poll for those who wish not to comment but to input nonetheless. Thanks, CO
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Post by Viper on Oct 28, 2002 13:03:44 GMT -5
I'm the new guy so i have very little to make comparison's to i'm assuming the discussion board is the same as the way things appear over at habfan's and personally i much prefer this format.
The habsrus.com page is set as my home page and every time I log onto the net the first thing i see is the post game report's. Tthe layout here at proboard's is excellent IMO.
I think there is some growing pains maybe in that people are unnaccostomed to the change and need a little time ??
the home page with all the links to the chat etcetera is great as well as the links to the writer's. I've browsed through some of the older columns and they are excellent.
I like things just as they are. but then again i'm a newer fish in an older pond so i'm only comparing to other places I visit. This one is by far the best Habs board on the net.
Keep up the great work CO
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Post by PTH on Oct 28, 2002 13:06:25 GMT -5
Not voting yet.... I like the content, but have to admit I often don't read it. The major posts we have up here wind up being more adapted to real analysis of what's going on than a reporter-style article which is really not much more than a post to start a debate about.
I used to dislike this format for discussion, but I think it encourages large posts - which I think is good. On the other hand, this damn crap locks up my computer at least once a day, and didn't load on Netscape at all until I got Netscape 7.0.
The *one* thing I *really* want to keep is the archiving(ie - no time limit to losing threads, they are always back there somewhere), so that in-depth analyses can go one over days, and not lose posts within a few hours because the board got filled with day-to-day babble that I personally don't care about.
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 28, 2002 13:37:05 GMT -5
I say no changes.
I don't like the Habfans(as an example) way. It takes too much time to open up each post. Here you just open up the thread and read whatever number of posts in it.
Just my opinion.
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Post by Bobs_HABit on Oct 28, 2002 13:42:32 GMT -5
Hey CO. Good to see your friendly face around here again. I like the format of the boards but I know where you are coming from. I'm as guilty as the next person in that last year I hardly missed Phil's excellent game recaps and this season I believe I've only read one. My bookmark is to the board not the front page although lately I have started going in through the front so that I can also see the Prospects board to see if there have been any updates.
As PTH said, it's nice to be able to go back and find old discussions on a certain topic and this type of board helps all us long winded posters go on and on and on and.... well you know the scoop.
Anyways, as for us fearless columnists...Speaking for myself, I have my first 'HABit Forming' of the season on the way and I hope to have it out by next week. With regards to everyone else, I think I speak for the board when I say I look forward to all the contributions from all the different writers and I think it would be a mistake to lose that.
On a bit of side note, I noticed that my column with my take on the TV situation last season is no longer on the front page. It doesn't matter but I did get a huge kick out of the fact that Montreal has more CBC broadcasts this season, CBC has moved Toronto and Montreal west coast starts to 10pm starts (3 times for Montreal I think), the Habs shopped for a $$$ TV deal with RDS, etc. All things I suggested, I wonder if it was GG who read my article and why he hasn't contacted me to bring me on board the staff. (hmmm, gotta run, looking up lawyer...)
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Post by Vinna on Oct 28, 2002 21:32:13 GMT -5
I like the content, but and didn't load on Netscape at all until I got Netscape 7.0. This was a problem for me as well. Now that I have NETSCAPE 7.0 I have no problems. I like things the way they are.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Oct 28, 2002 22:10:07 GMT -5
This format works alright when you get used to it. If you haven't been exposed to any other format then this is the cat's meow. However, if you've been exposed to other formats it is a transition for sure.
This format has it's advantages. For instance, it looks more organized and "state of the art" if you will, than the traditional board and has an abundance of features I hadn't seen before. If those features can be transfered to the traditional format, great.
The traditional "string" format certainly has it's advantages as well. I like being able to click and reply to a poster rather than having to use the "quote" button.
Again, I perfer the original format, but that's just me. However, should the community vote to stay with this, I certainly won't have a problem with it. I'm used to it now.
Cheers.
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Post by habwest on Oct 29, 2002 3:11:17 GMT -5
I much prefer seeing the threads, with or w/o the other content. I'm afraid I'm looking at less and less for the reasons CO noted and rarely, if ever, make it to the second page.
I'm much more interested in substance and ease of access, rather than all the doo dads (although the modify feature is quite useful for editing). Comes with getting old.
Whatever happens, one thing I would like to see, if possible, would be a significantly bigger window for entering my posts.
My 2 cents. Cheers.
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Post by UberCranky on Oct 29, 2002 7:40:38 GMT -5
I like this format as it is. I would also like a bigger window and a spell checker. As it stands now, the letters are so small that I can not see my spelling mistakes and have to go into a post and correct it after I see it as a post. A pain in the kolo if you ask me.
HW, the only way that you can avoid the small window and small fonts is by writting the post in Word and then dropping it in your post. Works great for long posts but again, for short posts it's a pain.
The other MAJOR problem I have is with the billion little no content posts. It's one thing to do it in a game thread but it is a royal pain to try to see 10 yes-no-laugh-agree-nod posts before you find anything of substance ion a serious discussion thread. Look, we are all guilty of a one liners but to find a serious discussion thread buried by 10 one liner posts is a bit much. Spiro, maybe removing the recording of the amount of posts would discourage people from posting for amounts? It’s quality over quantity folks. QUALITY. Okay, the occasional one liner and joke post are fine but lets keep them down to a minimum and save them for the game threads or threads that encourage some humour.
Okay, lets go wild in the game threads or threads intendet for a bit of fun. By it’s very nature, game threads are going to be short. Then we can have a post game thread where we can share our thoughts.
I know I have at least 6 complaints and Spiro another 6 about this matter. It has been brought up as THE major problem. Spiro had not brought it up as a problem and he has tried to mollify the complainers. After all, we try to encourage PARTICIPATION in discussions, not smilies and nodding emoticons (emotional icons, emot’icons).
This is a Hab's discussion forum, not a chat line.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Oct 29, 2002 8:19:59 GMT -5
Personnaly I like the threaded version much better.
The topics in a threaded version can evolve into many sub-discussions and debates from it's main trunk and keep it's readability whereas discussions in the current version tend to either be very linear or, if 2 or 3 debates arise within a subject, then you have to use the quote button and the readability of that thread is totally lost.
The other problem is that indeed when you take a glance at the board, you always see the same names, which are the most frequent posters. If you like what a certain poster, that posts with less frequency, writes or brings you might never read it because it gets burried in a jiffy.
A very good thing about the actual format though is the dynamic of it where a new response to an old thread brings it up the board again.
Regarding the content of the main page, I think that one of the problem is that navigation from the discussion board to the main HABSRUS site where content is, isn't easy and the HABSRUS "branding" is very very "shy" on the discussion board (no active links that catches the eyes and stuff). Another problem is that your columnists are darn lazy bums (!!!). ;-)
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Post by clear observer on Oct 29, 2002 8:25:40 GMT -5
Whatever happens, one thing I would like to see, if possible, would be a significantly bigger window for entering my posts. BAM! :-) Don't mind Spiro folks, that's how he got his wife (and his sex life)! Hey, this writing window is now so big I can see my, uhh, my bald spot. HA-hahaha
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Post by clear observer on Oct 29, 2002 8:27:29 GMT -5
Another problem is that your columnists are darn lazy bums (!!!). ;-) You get what you pay for!!?? ;-) CO
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Post by BadCompany on Oct 29, 2002 9:01:20 GMT -5
Well, both options have their pros and cons. The threaded view allows you to see who has contributed to a post, and the ability to view only your "favorite" posters, while this format allows for much longer, continuing debates. The Chris Dyment thread, for example, would have died after maybe 10 or so replies.
Course, some people might think that is a good idea too.
I don't mind this format, to be honest with, but I do agree that too many threads get buried with irrelevant, "I agree" type responses. If a good argument has been made, and there is nothing you can add to it, then I would think that it would be better to simply best to leave it alone. One line responses don't really add much.
Course (again), some would argue that 4 page responses that don't really say anything don't add much either, but nobody here does that, right? ;D
And your columnists suck. But if they want to contribute, knowing full well that most people won't read what they write, why stop them? If Phil doesn't want to do a post-game report, for whatever reason, then I will not hold it against him. He shouldn't feel like he "has to" write one, anymore than anybody should feel like they have to read it. If he enjoys writing them, or if anybody enjoys writing a column, then so be it. Why stop them just because nobody reads them? Nobody reads my posts, hasn't stopped me...
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Post by clear observer on Oct 29, 2002 9:03:41 GMT -5
Nobody reads my posts, hasn't stopped me... Excellent point! ;D CO
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Post by The New Guy on Oct 29, 2002 9:04:31 GMT -5
I'm actually quite content the way things are (although this new, bigger window is so... luxurious)...
So I vote for no change. Yeah - the threaded style was nice, but it didn't make that big a deal to me. This way if I happen to go out of town for a weekend or what not it's a lot easier for me to see all new posts this way than by scrolling through endlessly long pages filled with discussions on some guy named Dyment (-:
But whatever - I'm just happy that this site exists. And that the Leafs are doing so poorly - I'm happy for that too...
Later,
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Post by HFTO on Oct 29, 2002 17:29:59 GMT -5
Quite frankly I am used to the new format though I also did lke the old one. As far as the game reports go I enjoy doing them, its good therapy. However if Spiro you are finding it too much work yourself I will not be offended if you want me to stop sending them,I know you have alot of work formating etc.and they are submitted late at night. For now I will continue until I'm told to go sit in the corner. As far as people reading them I didn't think many of us could read anyways. Whatever format you eventually go with ,no matter my involvement I'm glad their is a place where we all can share our pain. thx Spiro Phil
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Oct 29, 2002 20:30:55 GMT -5
In the beginning I didn't like the new format. Then I got used to it. I prefer the old format with fewer Netscape glitches, Fewer repetive pictures of Dilbert, and more posts available at a glance. I don't feel as strongly about the format as I do about MT head, but my vote is go back to the old format, chock full of posts at a glance. I tend to not spend a lot of time posting and reading, and it lets me get in and out faster.
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Post by seventeen on Oct 29, 2002 20:52:36 GMT -5
Be careful what you wish for. I'm going to have to buy a 52 inch monitor to fit this new writing window. Geeze CO, you never do anything by halves, huh? My biggest headache is simply my older CPU, so it takes me a looooong time to get through all the posts and some of them are a trifle snoozing. Overall, I'd have to say I prefer this because under the old format we'd never have gotten to see HA's hay wagon.
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Post by Big_D on Oct 29, 2002 21:29:57 GMT -5
Either way is fine with me (jeez, talk about sitting on the fence). Really, I liked the old threads, but I love the new site. I think the #1 reason all of us love it here is the people. Nobody craps all over you if you post something stupid. So, whichever way we choose is okay with me.
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Post by Viper on Oct 29, 2002 21:48:57 GMT -5
So that's WTF happened to the posting window i tried a response tonight and thought that there was something wrong it turns out it's just old guy's who need glasses ;D
i'm gonna have to hook my pc up to the big screen tv somehow now. lol
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Post by Pam on Oct 29, 2002 22:35:28 GMT -5
Yikes!! I see what is meant by BIG Window now. CO, I don't know if my input counts but here it is. I always liked the old string format like the Old HabsRus and the Old LeafsChat where you could see all the posts and replies at a glance and you could pick up where you wanted too. I still had the string format when I moved LC to Forum.OneCenter, but then Forum.OneCenter became unstable after a major server upgrade, so I moved it to ProBoards because you had HabsRus on it. I still like the String Format better than the ProBoards format. I guess I'm getting old. If you find a good place that has the String Format, let me know about it. If I like it, and you move HabsRus to it, I'll watch HabsRus on it to see how it does and then I might poll my group to see what they say about LC moving to a string format. This is your forum so I know you will go with the majority, just like I would, but I would love to see it back to the string format.
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Post by JFM on Oct 30, 2002 12:01:22 GMT -5
I haven't been here long enough to see how HabsRus was in the old format. Though I have an idea of what everyone is talking about. I frequent another board which used to show all responses. They have also changed their format to something similar to this format. I like things as they are. I would like one little addition, however. How about having a link that brings you to the first unread post in a thread? It is a very practical feature when threads grow to several pages.... (a la Dyment). It would save time and guesswork. Overall I like things just the way they are. Keep up the great work CO!
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Post by clear observer on Oct 30, 2002 12:20:38 GMT -5
I haven't been here long enough to see how HabsRus was in the old format. Though I have an idea of what everyone is talking about. I frequent another board which used to show all responses. They have also changed their format to something similar to this format. I like things as they are. I would like one little addition, however. How about having a link that brings you to the first unread post in a thread? It is a very practical feature when threads grow to several pages.... (a la Dyment). It would save time and guesswork. Overall I like things just the way they are. Keep up the great work CO! In most areas, I'm at the mercy of "proboard's" design...unfortunately, that is one of them. Thx for your reply, CO :-)
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Post by Psycorp on Oct 30, 2002 13:17:20 GMT -5
I was one of the few members who wanted the old treaded format back at the time of the change it was wery useful to see the unread posts and it was faster to see all the treads.
But i learned to use the present format, i'm at ease with it now...
This site have a speciality, long post.....very long posts ;D Many of those posts are nearly works of art (i'm really serious there guys) The treaded format loses posts after they get out of the front page, it would be a shame truly.
We (well out of 104 posts i did 2 who are worth it) should be proud of what we write, we aren't like the other boards.
At habsrus, we aren't only proud to participate discussions, we are also proud about the arguments we bring, about the content, the structure of our posts, the logic of our thinking, the fun of fighting back and forth with good and logical arguments. The respect we share for each others...
I for one, go from time to time read a post or a serie of posts i remember were beauties and i'd hate to lose that. we work hard for them.
So i say we stand up and we keep our FREEDOM !!!!!! oh sorry PRESENT FORMAT!!!!!!
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Post by UberCranky on Oct 30, 2002 20:52:27 GMT -5
I was one of the few members who wanted the old treaded format back at the time of the change it was wery useful to see the unread posts and it was faster to see all the treads. But i learned to use the present format, i'm at ease with it now... This site have a speciality, long post.....very long posts ;D Many of those posts are nearly works of art (i'm really serious there guys) The treaded format loses posts after they get out of the front page, it would be a shame truly. We (well out of 104 posts i did 2 who are worth it) should be proud of what we write, we aren't like the other boards. At habsrus, we aren't only proud to participate discussions, we are also proud about the arguments we bring, about the content, the structure of our posts, the logic of our thinking, the fun of fighting back and forth with good and logical arguments. The respect we share for each others... I for one, go from time to time read a post or a serie of posts i remember were beauties and i'd hate to lose that. we work hard for them. So i say we stand up and we keep our FREEDOM !!!!!! oh sorry PRESENT FORMAT!!!!!! And don't forget what HabsRus does for world peace, world hunger, saving whales, restoring the ozone, child poverty, free sex, freedom for the masses, hockey playing hamsters, perpetual motion, freedom of thought, and last but not least, hemorrhoid shrinkage.
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Post by Psycorp on Oct 30, 2002 22:12:45 GMT -5
And don't forget what HabsRus does for world peace, world hunger, saving whales, restoring the ozone, child poverty, free sex, freedom for the masses, hockey playing hamsters, perpetual motion, freedom of thought, and last but not least, hemorrhoid shrinkage. Well, i got an objection to make about helping hockey playing hamsters, they keep eating their little hockey sticks, i'm not sure habsrus should continue to help them
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Post by KR on Nov 5, 2002 14:09:32 GMT -5
I'm with Doc on this one. I prefer to be able to look at the subject title and determine which reponses I want to read without having to scroll through dozens of messages. When I see a thread that interests me, I like to know right away that ( for example) 10 out of 25 responses aren't by the some person. For me it's all about time. Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the simpler formats. Fewer bells and whistles.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 5, 2002 17:16:11 GMT -5
I'm with Doc on this one. I prefer to be able to look at the subject title and determine which reponses I want to read without having to scroll through dozens of messages. When I see a thread that interests me, I like to know right away that ( for example) 10 out of 25 responses aren't by the some person. For me it's all about time. Call me old fashioned, but I much prefer the simpler formats. Fewer bells and whistles. Actually, KR, I'm not a fast reader. I find myself skimming way too much just to avoid the one and two-line responses. As a result, I sometimes miss content. As I was saying, I can go either way, but I like the traditional scripting much better. Cheers.
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