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Post by Ryan on Oct 31, 2002 14:33:28 GMT -5
In light of Savard's donation this afternoon of a seventh round draft pick to the Wild, I looked back over the 90's and got a list of some of the players drafted in the seventh round. Now I realize this is a useless exercise, and you could throw out 10 times as many names of guys drafted in the seventh round that have yet to even be in attendance at an NHL game, but this just proves there are gems to be found. AS is supposed to be a draft mastermind, so why is he giving up picks like Halloween candy? Seventh Rounders... Robert Lang Peter Worrell Ian Laperriere Todd Marchant Andrew Brunette P.J. Axelsson Pavel Kubina Ladislav Nagy Martin Erat Radim Vrbata Henrik Zetterberg And the one and only...Matt O'Dette
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 31, 2002 14:40:54 GMT -5
Wow. Some great names in there.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Nov 1, 2002 16:54:05 GMT -5
Also seventh rounder, Doug Gilmour! Not a Superstar but I think he lasted a couple of years in the NHL.
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Post by Gord on Nov 1, 2002 17:59:30 GMT -5
Here are some first rounders from the last few years, to take the other side of the coin:
Michael Rupp Christian Backman Matt Zultek Stefan Cherneski Kevin Grimes Johnathan Aitken Jaroslav Svejkovsky Craig Hillier Jeff Brown Peter Ratchuk Terry Ryan Steve Kelly Teemu Riihijarvi Miika Elomo Jeff Kealty Chris Wells
Ever heard of 'em? Me neither. Gems and busts can be found anywhere.
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Post by The New Guy on Nov 2, 2002 1:50:23 GMT -5
The draft is a crap shoot. You look at a kid at 17 or 18 or 19, look at how he plays, say ten Hail Mary's, take a throw at a dart board and hope for the best.
Gems can be found in any round, at any pick and so can those guys you'd rather forget.
And then a few (a la Adam Oates) slip through the cracks altogether - but that's another thread. The only difference between a 1st rounder and a 7th rounder? Your odds are better in the 1st round.
I wouldn't worry about Savard handing out picks like candy. A seventh really, honestly, aint worth that much.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 2, 2002 2:40:02 GMT -5
Let me guess, you probably dissed Chris Dyment too. Here's a better idea. When you have loose change, please give it to me. After all, it's just loose change, a buck here, a buck there, what's the dif?
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Post by The New Guy on Nov 2, 2002 2:58:07 GMT -5
A seventh rounder is worth, in NHL terms, about a penny. The odds of being worth anything valuble any time in the near future are slim to none. Unless we're talking about an eigth or ninth pick, it doesn't get much lower than an seventh round pick.
Do you ever see those little bowls in places. You know - if you need a penny take a penny. If you have a penny, give a penny. If there's one of them around I usually either use the bowels contents to make exact change, or deposit what few pennies I have. However - in this case we got something the TEAM NEEDED for our penny.
Because, I mean, it's not like everyone and their dog George hasn't been screaming we're too soft over and over and over and over.
This is what I don't get. You say you want toughness. Savard gets us Odjick, who was relitively "tough" at the time, and a much better investment that P.J. Stock. But you complain. He gets us Quintal - maybe not a fighter but a tough cookie - and you moan about how slow he is. Forget he's got a decent mean streak in him and will fight for his teammates. And win. Here's a hint - Quintal is not on our roster to be a defensive force. He never was.
Now Quintal is injured and we become the soft, weak team everyone complains about again. Sure we have some sandpaper in Gilmour, Koivu and McKay - but no real fighters. No 'enforcers' - if that term can be applied to Quintal (he's as close as we've got anyways). Savard needs to replace Quintal. He does so by going out and getting a good scrapper for next to nothing. And what do you say?
"He should've called up O'dette."
Of course. We should've called up a slow, clutch and hold defenceman who can scrap when he needs t- hey. Wait now. Isn't this the same description of Quintal - whom everyone sees fit to rant on these days.
Right - he calls up O'dette and every, all at one time, screams "KOMISAREK".
Blouin is a patch on a temporary problem. He plays with fire and intensity (more than we can say for some others). He is a scrapper, not a hevayweight, but a scrapper. Like Quintal. He fills a hole. Nothing more, nothing less.
A seventh rounder is cheap for a temporary fix. I wouldn't worry about it at all.
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Post by PTH on Nov 2, 2002 13:11:35 GMT -5
A seventh rounder is cheap for a temporary fix. I wouldn't worry about it at all. Well, I think it's worth more than that. If a 7th rounder had cash value, I think it might be something like 25K - ie, about double what you get back for a player you lost on waivers (guessing wildly on the numbers here, but it's thereabouts). If this were a 1-time thing I wouldn't care, but AS has consistently given away lesser picks without getting many back at all. The only one he got back without having given one up is the Dyment pick. While each pick individually has no value, 2-3 bad picks a year have a decent chance of leading to a player who'll be an NHLer. Rule of thumb is that from a draft you need two players - one of the 1st ad 2nd rounders, along with one from all of the other rounds. AS is seriously lessening the odds of getting those lesser-round players. It all comes down to ASs asset management..... he doesn't get a pick or anything for Robidas, and then goes and gives away a pick for Blouin... and soon will have to make room for some other guys as injured guys return. Very poor asset management. For the minutes and role Blouin will play, I bet that O'dette could have done just as well. Then again, AS probably just surrendered control of this issue to MT, who will naturally have wanted the guy he's coached in the past.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 2, 2002 14:58:51 GMT -5
That was my point, PTH, thanks. The Habs themselves can point to numerous late round picks who have made the NHL. Since 1988, we've had Sean Hill, Peter Popovic, Paul DiPietro, Craig Conroy, Scott Fraser, Brian Savage, Oleg Petrov, Darcy Tucker, Tomas Vokoun, Stephane Robidas and Andrei Markov all selected past the 3rd round and most were well past the 3rd round. That's 11 players from 1988 to 1998, 11 years...ergo your 1 player a year after the 2nd round (actually after the 3rd). If we included 3rd rounders you'd add Rivet and Asham to this list, not much more, but still more. Most of these guys would qualify as adequate NHLr' s and some (Conroy, Tucker, Markov) are either above average or will be above average. Another fascinating statistic (who says I love numbers?) is that from 1988 to 2000, the Habs averaged 12 picks a year. The later years of that stretch had smaller numbers because there were fewer rounds. Savard has averaged 6 1/2, because he's given up some late round picks in various deals. If we throw in a late round pick in order to make a deal for a guy who's going to be an important cog (power forward, key defenseman), I'd be the last guy to complain. And again, I don't think that Blouin isn't worth just a 7th rounder. I very much think, however, you could hire some free agent somewhere, or bring up Odette, or some other tough AHL'er (someone with brains) and they'd be no worse than Blouin and we'd still have our 7th rounder, who might be trash, or the next Andrei Markov. Or Luc Robitaille, or Dave Taylor...yada yada, blah, blah. After all, we don't need the guy to play anything more than 3 minutes a game. He's just there to send a message and allow our smurfies to play their game. Cheap way to improve the team. Blouin may turn out just fine in that role, some of us just don't like this (and other) patterns of Savard, which don't maximize our resources. Save enough pennies and you'll have a buck. It takes time, but eventually you get a buck.
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 2, 2002 17:30:58 GMT -5
That was my point, PTH, thanks. The Habs themselves can point to numerous late round picks who have made the NHL. Since 1988, we've had Sean Hill, Peter Popovic, Paul DiPietro, Craig Conroy, Scott Fraser, Brian Savage, Oleg Petrov, Darcy Tucker, Tomas Vokoun, Stephane Robidas and Andrei Markov all selected past the 3rd round and most were well past the 3rd round. That's 11 players from 1988 to 1998, 11 years...ergo your 1 player a year after the 2nd round (actually after the 3rd). If we included 3rd rounders you'd add Rivet and Asham to this list, not much more, but still more. Most of these guys would qualify as adequate NHLr' s and some (Conroy, Tucker, Markov) are either above average or will be above average. Another fascinating statistic (who says I love numbers?) is that from 1988 to 2000, the Habs averaged 12 picks a year. The later years of that stretch had smaller numbers because there were fewer rounds. Savard has averaged 6 1/2, because he's given up some late round picks in various deals. If we throw in a late round pick in order to make a deal for a guy who's going to be an important cog (power forward, key defenseman), I'd be the last guy to complain. And again, I don't think that Blouin isn't worth just a 7th rounder. I very much think, however, you could hire some free agent somewhere, or bring up Odette, or some other tough AHL'er (someone with brains) and they'd be no worse than Blouin and we'd still have our 7th rounder, who might be trash, or the next Andrei Markov. Or Luc Robitaille, or Dave Taylor...yada yada, blah, blah. After all, we don't need the guy to play anything more than 3 minutes a game. He's just there to send a message and allow our smurfies to play their game. Cheap way to improve the team. Blouin may turn out just fine in that role, some of us just don't like this (and other) patterns of Savard, which don't maximize our resources. Save enough pennies and you'll have a buck. It takes time, but eventually you get a buck. The Portnoy’s Complaint of posting. You think old people can read an entire 8,000 word paragraph without taking a pee break? *runs to bathroom*
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 2, 2002 17:42:47 GMT -5
How about Darcy Tucker, 8th round, 151st overall in the '93 draft? Cheers.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 2, 2002 18:58:01 GMT -5
The Portnoy’s Complaint of posting. You think old people can read an entire 8,000 word paragraph without taking a pee break? *runs to bathroom* Haven't you left for Hamilton yet? With that hay wagon of yours, clopping through the night, you might just make it for the national anthem. Put it on autopilot and sleep through the night. ()
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