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Post by PTH on Nov 1, 2002 8:37:38 GMT -5
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 1, 2002 8:52:16 GMT -5
Gotta like how Rivet is really growing into this leadership role. His on ice play may not be the best in the league, but he certainly talks the talk well.
He's been great for Markov, he won't hide from the media, and as the last few days have shown, he ain't shy about slapping around a few veterans, if need be. He says in the article that if people are sitting, its "because they aren't working hard enough."
I also like the fact that he is standing up for the coach. Regardless of how Rivet privately feels, a true, classy veteran will back his coach 100%, no matter what.
"The coach sends the lines onto the ice that give him the most. We are a veteran team, and everyone should know that if a player works hard, if he is ready to battle, he will play. Its only logical. Those who aren't playing right now, there is a reason behind that. Its simple; they aren't working."
Rivet is basically saying that like it or not Therrien is the coach, and as professionals, as veterans, they have to deal with that. Whining about it isn't going to accomplish anything. I'm sure Rivet knows Therrien isn't a great coach, but he also knows that Therrien IS the coach, and until things change everybody should just shut up and do their jobs.
I like it.
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 1, 2002 9:08:13 GMT -5
Gotta like how Rivet is really growing into this leadership role. His on ice play may not be the best in the league, but he certainly talks the talk well. He's been great for Markov, he won't hide from the media, and as the last few days have shown, he ain't shy about slapping around a few veterans, if need be. He says in the article that if people are sitting, its "because they aren't working hard enough." I also like the fact that he is standing up for the coach. Regardless of how Rivet privately feels, a true, classy veteran will back his coach 100%, no matter what. "The coach sends the lines onto the ice that give him the most. We are a veteran team, and everyone should know that if a player works hard, if he is ready to battle, he will play. Its only logical. Those who aren't playing right now, there is a reason behind that. Its simple; they aren't working." Rivet is basically saying that like it or not Therrien is the coach, and as professionals, as veterans, they have to deal with that. Whining about it isn't going to accomplish anything. I'm sure Rivet knows Therrien isn't a great coach, but he also knows that Therrien IS the coach, and until things change everybody should just shut up and do their jobs. I like it. Tell me BadOne, if everybody works their butt off "until things change", as you put it and the GM is "conservative" as HabWesty guy put it then when do things change? When this club is complete and utter shambles? Will losing 5 games in a row do it? 10? 20? A season? Two? When? What evidence does Savard need to take action? Or does it have to be a mutiny and a reaction? "I'm sure Rivet knows Therrien isn't a great coach", so kiss his ass anyway. Why? It's very, very simple to me. If the coach was a good coach then these statements by Rivet would be warranted and make me believe that he was honest about them. But, right now, by your own admission, he is standing up for his spud brained boss and THAT makes Rivet an kolo kisser. I hope Rivet can clean the brown stuff of his nose before game time. P.S. Kolo is ass in Greek. I do what I can to help you learn dem for'rainers languages and edu'kait ya.
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Post by clear observer on Nov 1, 2002 9:19:30 GMT -5
Rivet is basically saying that like it or not Therrien is the coach Yep, that's great leadership alright. Also a VERY telling statement basically acknowledging that THERE ARE those that do not "like it" that he's the coach. Very telling indeed. Thx for the translation BC, CO
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 1, 2002 9:31:17 GMT -5
Tell me BadOne, if everybody works their butt off "until things change", as you put it and the GM is "conservative" as HabWesty guy put it then when do things change? When this club is complete and utter shambles? Will losing 5 games in a row do it? 10? 20? A season? Two? When? What evidence does Savard need to take action? Or does it have to be a mutiny and a reaction? "I'm sure Rivet knows Therrien isn't a great coach", so kiss his ass anyway. Why? It's very, very simple to me. If the coach was a good coach then these statements by Rivet would be warranted and make me believe that he was honest about them. But, right now, by your own admission, he is standing up for his spud brained boss and THAT makes Rivet an ass kisser. I hope Rivet can clean the brown stuff of his nose before game time. Oh, I get it. Maybe Rivet should become an anonymous source for the media. Talk trash behind Therrien's back. Maybe say things like "that stupid coach cost us the game." Maybe he should go up to Donald Audette and say "hey, I know you have zero points in 8 games, and your +/- is sinking into lower Dante Hell like depths, but the coach was terribly wrong and you should complain more." Or go up to Ron Hainsey, and say, "if I were you, I would get your agent to demand a trade, Therrien is obviously ruining you." How about calling up Jack Todd, and saying "the French media really hates Jeff Hackett, but the truth is, the anglos on the team love him." Maybe you would prefer that the team act more like the New York Rangers or Philadelphia Flyers, blaming the coach for all their ills? How many coaches have the Flyers gone through in the last decade? 8? 9? Remember Keith Primeau bad-mouthing Bill Barber, just before he got fired? Is that what you want? That kind of team? Or would you prefer that Rivet, like Audette, Czerkawksi and Gilmour, simply stop trying until the coach gets fired? Is that your plan? What happened to the "coach is the boss" philososphy you so eloquently promoted? What happened to the big rant against all those failed prospects who weren't working hard enough, but how their destiny was in their own hands? Craig Rivet comes out and says his team isn't working hard enough, and you call it brown-nosing?? Have you ever worked for an incompentant boss? Do you think it would have been smart of you to publicly state that he was incompentant? Or did you tow the party line, continue to work hard because it was the right thing to do, secure in the knowledge that eventually, water finds its level, and that the cream rises to the top, blah, blah, blah? Rivet is saying what needs to be said; the team has sucked rocks. A lot of it has to do with the coaching, but as Viper stated, as HFTO stated, as others have stated, there is a serious lack of effort being displayed. That ain't right. When will things change? When Andre Savard looks down on his team, sees them giving 100% every night (which isn't happening), and still seeing them fail because the system, or lack thereof, isn't a helping. Then he will move. Until then, Rivet, and every other player in that dressing room, is an employee of the Montreal Canadiens (and well paid employees to boot), and they report directly to Michel Therrien. He is their boss, like it or not, and they will do what he says, and they will do it to the maximum of their effort. Because they are professionals, as you and I are. We give 100% not because we love our bosses, but because in the real world when somebody writes you a check every week, you give them 100% of your effort. Its not about kissing ass, its about being a professional. Rivet and Koivu could have very easily taken the Czerkawski and Audette route (and the infamous "rat's" route), whined to the press, about how they need more ice time, how unfairly they are being treated, about how 8 games really isn't enough time for me to SCORE ONE FREAKING GOAL - but they didn't. They said "we are professional hockey players and professional hockey players give 110% every night - if they don't, they don't play." That sounds a lot better to me than simply giving up, so that the coach can get fired.
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Post by Viper on Nov 1, 2002 9:49:42 GMT -5
Gotta Go with BC on this one when the lack of effort is so blatently obvious and your AS what do you do ??
Obviosly if we can see how blatent this is AS must as well so you can fire the coach because the player's aren't responding to him or you could start moving the deadweight player's who are just half koloing out there.
If the player's are all showing the effort and thing's aren't working effectively then fire the coach. This non effort thing has been going on for at least a season or 2 because i seriously cannot remember (or at least i could count on one hand ) the amount of times this TEAM has won a game and not the Goalie.
By only giving 25 or 50 percent the player's are only further tying AS's Hands. As a matter of fact after giving MT the extension he did and seeing the player's pull this routine it's damn close to impossible for AS to fire his coach before moving the dead weight without looking like a Jackkolo.
He got theo signed he locked in the coach he got rivet extended he brought in toughness in McKay and scoring in chow so gilmour would resign he got zed in the lineup for opening night plus resigned a bunch of other's over the summer. Now all the work he did in the summer time FOR THE PLAYER'S is being smacked back in his face like a pie.
The player's are sinking their own ship and I'll bet on AS dealing them before canninng MT.
I'd love to see MT go i think he's an incompetent but this approach by the player's to have him fired (if that's indeed what it is) seems like the absolute wrong way to go.
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Post by clear observer on Nov 1, 2002 10:09:09 GMT -5
Ya know...at the end of the day you HAVE to have a coach that the players have confidence in. Not one whom they like or even respect...just one who they are willing to follow solely based on the fact that they are confident in his over-all ability to both lead and coach. It's all well and good, admirable even, to state you're behind the coach in order to "rally the troops", but I fear the actions of both Koivu and Rivet, well intentioned as they are, are and will be in vain. Getting 20+ players (many of which are veterans) to get on the "let's stick by our coach - regardless of how inept we all KNOW he is" train is futile at best. You may get a few, but you certainly will not get 'em all. And it's effect, at best, will be short-lived. Geez...Andre Savard, in many respects, did the very same thing by extending MT's contract...did he not?
Don't get me wrong - and again it's an admirable attempt - however a private secret meeting with Andre Savard making it clear to him that MT may have quite possibly "lost" the majority of the room, would probably serve this situation better. Players going public to whine....players going public to rally. The room is, at best, divided. That simply cannot be the way of a pro sports locker-room.
Ya can't fire 20 players....something's gotta give.
Also, I don't subscribe to the "panic" theory. Firing MT would certainly not be perceived as "panicking". We're taling about a guy with barely 2 yrs experience here, and one that has clearly lost many of his players. Points in March and April are a hell of alot more difficult to scoop then they are in October and November.
I say can the coach, and step down behind the bench as an interim solution 'til a "qualified and experienced" man is found.
CO
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 1, 2002 10:18:31 GMT -5
When will things change? When Andre Savard looks down on his team, sees them giving 100% every night (which isn't happening), and still seeing them fail because the system, or lack thereof, isn't a helping. Then he will move. Until then, Rivet, and every other player in that dressing room, is an employee of the Montreal Canadiens (and well paid employees to boot), and they report directly to Michel Therrien. He is their boss, like it or not, and they will do what he says, and they will do it to the maximum of their effort. Because they are professionals, as you and I are. We give 100% not because we love our bosses, but because in the real world when somebody writes you a check every week, you give them 100% of your effort. Its not about kissing ass, its about being a professional. Rivet and Koivu could have very easily taken the Czerkawski and Audette route (and the infamous "rat's" route), whined to the press, about how they need more ice time, how unfairly they are being treated, about how 8 games really isn't enough time for me to SCORE ONE FREAKING GOAL - but they didn't. They said "we are professional hockey players and professional hockey players give 110% every night - if they don't, they don't play." That sounds a lot better to me than simply giving up, so that the coach can get fired. Good grief, that was so mushy I almost started crying.……almost. But I ain’t buying it. You really believe that this team is going to give it it’s all any time soon? REALLY? Do you have money because it appears I can easily separate you from it. In the real world my friend, this team is not going to put it together because there is just to much dissatisfaction, too much dissension and way to much bad coaching. You easily gloss over why the players are not going top play well and that problem is not going away. I fail to see why you fail to see that the problem stems from the coaching downwards and that as long as the coach is there the players will not give their all. And even if by some miracle they did, the coach will invariably do something stupid enough to deflate their confidence and their will. Like it has not happened before? Well? Have you forgotten the superhuman effort that they gave last spring and then the whole thing came crashing down on them. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and that action is taken by the coach. Why do you believe that these multi-millionaires are going to fear their jobs and their future if they don’t play well? Do you think that there is another cancer victim around the corner waiting to comeback and lift the teams spirit? Or do you think that the goaltenders are going to do their impressions of Goalie Gods every day of the week and twice on Christmas? You know when Therrien is going to be canned? When the goalies play like humans and they lose game often game or when the team will not put out no matter what happens. Then our “conservative” GM will realize that HIS job is on the line if he does not change things. Only then. ”Because they are professionals, as you and I are. We give 100% not because we love our bosses, but because in the real world when somebody writes you a check every week, you give them 100% of your effort.” Does the NHLPA know about you?
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Post by JacquesInFL on Nov 1, 2002 10:22:17 GMT -5
Rivet has developed into one of the club's real character guys over few years. I see him doing what has to be done now. As for Audette, well, I think his record speaks for itself -- Buffalo, LA, Dallas and now Montréal. Donald
If I am AS, I immediately take any offer for Audette. Then move to the coaching issue if the Habs keep with the bad play.
Anyone think Savard regrets bringing such malcontent like Donald on board?
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Post by UberCranky on Nov 1, 2002 10:23:02 GMT -5
Ya know...at the end of the day you HAVE to have a coach that the players have confidence in. Not one whom they like or even respect...just one who they are willing to follow solely based on the fact that they are confident in his over-all ability to both lead and coach. It's all well and good, admirable even, to state you're behind the coach in order to "rally the troops", but I fear the actions of both Koivu and Rivet, well intentioned as they are, are and will be in vain. Getting 20+ players (many of which are veterans) to get on the "let's stick by our coach - regardless of how inept we all KNOW he is" train is futile at best. You may get a few, but you certainly will not get 'em all. And it's effect, at best, will be short-lived. Geez...Andre Savard, in many respects, did the very same thing by extending MT's contract...did he not? Don't get me wrong - and again it's an admirable attempt - however a private secret meeting with Andre Savard making it clear to him that MT may have quite possibly "lost" the majority of the room, would probably serve this situation better. Players going public to whine....players going public to rally. The room is, at best, divided. That simply cannot be the way of a pro sports locker-room. Ya can't fire 20 players....something's gotta give. Also, I don't subscribe to the "panic" theory. Firing MT would certainly not be perceived as "panicking". We're taling about a guy with barely 2 yrs experience here, and one that has clearly lost many of his players. Points in March and April are a hell of alot more difficult to scoop then they are in October and November. I say can the coach, and step down behind the bench as an interim solution 'til a "qualified and experienced" man is found. CO Holy pita, a LOOOOONG post and you AGREE with me? What's gotten into you? Nefty ston kolo? Do you have any connections with the crooked nose boys? I'm kinda thinking off taking up a collection and fitting MThead with cement overshoes.
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 1, 2002 10:36:17 GMT -5
Good grief, that was so mushy I almost started crying.……almost. But I ain’t buying it. You really believe that this team is going to give it it’s all any time soon? REALLY? Do you have money because it appears I can easily separate you from it. In the real world my friend, this team is not going to put it together because there is just to much dissatisfaction, too much dissension and way to much bad coaching. You easily gloss over why the players are not going top play well and that problem is not going away. I fail to see why you fail to see that the problem stems from the coaching downwards and that as long as the coach is there the players will not give their all. And even if by some miracle they did, the coach will invariably do something stupid enough to deflate their confidence and their will. Like it has not happened before? Well? Have you forgotten the superhuman effort that they gave last spring and then the whole thing came crashing down on them. For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction and that action is taken by the coach. Why do you believe that these multi-millionaires are going to fear their jobs and their future if they don’t play well? Do you think that there is another cancer victim around the corner waiting to comeback and lift the teams spirit? Or do you think that the goaltenders are going to do their impressions of Goalie Gods every day of the week and twice on Christmas? You know when Therrien is going to be canned? When the goalies play like humans and they lose game often game or when the team will not put out no matter what happens. Then our “conservative” GM will realize that HIS job is on the line if he does not change things. Only then. ”Because they are professionals, as you and I are. We give 100% not because we love our bosses, but because in the real world when somebody writes you a check every week, you give them 100% of your effort.” Does the NHLPA know about you? Holy avoiding the original issue, Batman! I said Rivet was a team leader because he (publicly) backed Therrien, and urged, bluntly urged, some of the less driven members of his team to put in a better effort. You called him a brown-nosing kolo-kisser. I know not everyone is going to buy into the "work, hard" creed, but not everyone is a team leader. The team leaders, which Rivet is now one of (and which was the point of my original post) will come out and say that everyone should. That is what he did. I do not "fail to see that coaching is the problem" - I see it very clearly. I suspect Craig Rivet and Saku Koivu see it very clearly too. But bad-mouthing the coach to the press, failing to give 100% and blaming my lack of production on others isn't going to help. Craig Rivet is a leader on this team. He said what a leader has to say. Donald Audette and Marius Czerkawski's are not leaders, and indeed, have been problems to teams in the past. They said what they said. Which would you prefer? Seems to me, you prefer the latter two...
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Post by clear observer on Nov 1, 2002 10:40:56 GMT -5
Holy pita, a LOOOOONG post and you AGREE with me? What's gotten into you? Nefty ston kolo? Do you have any connections with the crooked nose boys? I'm kinda thinking off taking up a collection and fitting MThead with cement overshoes. Well...I agree with both of you. Players going public to whine is counter-productive...while the likes of Koivu and Rivet in their attempts is admirable. I do, however, maintain that a coaching change is in order. Not only is MT simply not qualified, but he's got a mess on his hands that is irrepairable as far as he is concerned. The players, for whatever reason, simply don't respond to him. He's gotta go...and kudos to Koivu and Rivet for their efforts. CO
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 1, 2002 11:17:38 GMT -5
Rivet's coming out outlines how seperated this dressing room is. When those wearing letters and suppose to be team leaders that cement the dressing room go out in public to point the finger at teammates, it's a problem. A big one IMO.
Did Rivet had to publicly kick Kilger, Audette, Chow and Gilmour while they are down by saying that they don't work hard? Has he, Craig Rivet, been the phyisical presence he's suppose to be? Isn't his soft play part of the reason why we have a sof defense?
There are very few players on this team that accomplish their work every game and Rivet sure isn't one of them. I can see Juneau coming out to say "...well if Craig Rivet was using his shoulders a bit more maybe Theodore wouldn't have such a tough time out there, to me, the dmen jsut don't work hard..."... I'm sure Rivet wouldn't too impressed with that...
It's one thing to stand by the coach and say I won't comment on things I don't control, he's the boss, it's another one to jump in and point finger. Rivet's leadership right now is one of a teacher's pet. If he had a message to send, it should have been something along the lines of "...We all need to work harder as a team...". Call a team supper or something like that.... He said what he said because he had a scuffle with Audette in practice and wanted to take a shot back at him...". Poor leadership IMO.
About the coach, I don't agree with those that think firing Therrien would solve the dressing room issue. IMO the problems lies with the type of team SAvard put togheter as most of us saw dressing room problems coming from miles ahead and it had nothing to do with the coach. Therrien's lack of system and constant lineup juggling is more then enough reasons to release him, we don't need to add the current unity issue to his shortcomings... :-)
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Post by Psycorp on Nov 1, 2002 13:43:40 GMT -5
I think there is only one problem in this dressing room. but it has a snowball effect. Doug Gilmour...
Why?, clearely m. Gilmour wasn't sure about playing another season and right now, he don't look at all like a player who want to play. I suppose he plan to do like last year, start working in febuary or so... and he still expect MT to play him 18 minutes a game....oh thats right, he still got thoses minutes last year despite playing like crap.
There is two leaders on this team: Koivu and Gilmour, how can we expect a team to play well when half of it's locker room look up to Gilmour as example of what to do?
Clearly, MT's forte isn't strategy...so it's up to the players to take a bigger role. There is cancers in this room and Gilmour is the worst because he's much more influencial than the others tumors...
I say, when Ribeiro come's back, Gilmour got to go
even before asking for a coach change, i think he got to go
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Post by larek on Nov 1, 2002 14:55:43 GMT -5
Rivet is the leader of this team when he shoots his mouth of all he does is talk and he doesnt back it up much with his play,he has turned into a very very soft player who hasnt knocked down an opponent in a long time and he has tied his gloves to his hands because they never come of,this guy hasnt even come close to earning that big pay raise!!
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 1, 2002 16:22:57 GMT -5
No comment ;D
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 1, 2002 16:25:29 GMT -5
I think there is only one problem in this dressing room. but it has a snowball effect. Doug Gilmour... Why?, clearely m. Gilmour wasn't sure about playing another season and right now, he don't look at all like a player who want to play. I suppose he plan to do like last year, start working in febuary or so... and he still expect MT to play him 18 minutes a game....oh thats right, he still got thoses minutes last year despite playing like crap. There is two leaders on this team: Koivu and Gilmour, how can we expect a team to play well when half of it's locker room look up to Gilmour as example of what to do? Clearly, MT's forte isn't strategy...so it's up to the players to take a bigger role. There is cancers in this room and Gilmour is the worst because he's much more influencial than the others tumors... I say, when Ribeiro come's back, Gilmour got to go even before asking for a coach change, i think he got to go No way that happens... Andre Savard was on his hands and knees this summer to get back Gilmour (so much so that he reopened his contract to pay him more and added a year), he's a favorite of GG too. He's not moving. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a Gilmour fan but since management looks up to him and players looks up to him, he could very well be part of the solution...
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 1, 2002 16:27:24 GMT -5
actually it was a mutual option for next year Doc. Since Dougy is headed to the retirement home, that option will be declined IMO.
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Post by HFTO on Nov 1, 2002 17:51:13 GMT -5
Andre Savard has created this mess and its time he fix it before the season is lost! What is he waiting for?IMO I think its a scape goat! If he waits until things fall apart he is again viewed as the saviour. AS has done what he was suppossed to do and thats get this team into the playoffs. Can he make them a contender?Right now I'd say NO! If AS is the guy we think he is he will be pro-active not re-active. This team is right now is a bunch of over paid LAZY bums! I don't think MT should have started the season as the coach here.I believe he is over his head but thats not his fault. Andre Savard most certainly could have addressed this in the off season but I think he was afraid for fear he maybe questioned. G.M.'s always going to be questioned no matter what they do I'd just perfer to see one building a ship rather than always saving one. I maybe wrong here I guess we'll see sooner rather than later. HFTO
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Post by legaspesien on Nov 1, 2002 22:03:19 GMT -5
Now Demers join the clud www.rds.ca/canadien/chroniques/HOCKEYLNHCAN3DC31BFD.htmlUntil now, Therrien takes the maid décisons Jacques Demers Michel Therrien As regards Michel Therrien, it must keep the cold head and concentrate on its objectives. I think that Michel did the work which one awaits from him. It knew to replace players who were not with the height (Czerkawski and Audette) and it did not hesitate to replace José Theodore by Jeff Hackett. That takes character to replace gaining it of the trophies Hart and Vézina. Therrien is able to live with its decisions. It did not penalize players who did not deserve it. One saw in the case of Czerkawski that the receipt had functioned, since it marked on its return in alignment and knew its best match since its arrival in Montreal. Criticisms towards Therrien are not deserved because it does its work. If it did not do it, I would be the first to say it. It made courageous decisions and acted like a true trainer-chief of the national League. With tous.les.jours, it must make difficult decisions for the good of the team. Until now, it was right. The trainer makes decisions according to what occurs on the ice but also according to what occurs in the cloakroom. One does not know what occurs inside the team. It is necessary to wonder whether certain players undermine the team spirit? It is significant for Therrien to see the influence which a player can have in his cloakroom. In the case of Audette, as a veteran it cannot be happy to be found on the gallery of the press. It must however look at its performance since the beginning of the season. It quite simply did not play height of its talent and it knows it. Even thing for the other veterans who were pointed finger. With the end of the last campaign, one expects much the Canadian this season and I think that it is preferable to early make decisions in the season rather than to wait in January or February in full fight for a place in the eliminatory series. Let us remember that the Canadian had to gain his last seven matches to take part in the series the last year. Changes to come? All depend on the cure of the wound with Sheldon Sourray, one could seek a left-handed defender. Currently, one uses the young defender Ron Hainsey approximately a match on two, a good decision as for me. Even thing with Patrick Crosses and this is why I think that the general manager seeks a left-handed physical defender. With the attack, there are nevertheless enough good players even if I believe that André Savard would like to put the hand on an attacker with a large gauge if it were possible, but its priority remains in defensive. Certain players with before have a slow beginning of season but proved in the past that they could mark goals. It is only one question of time before Oleg Petrov does not start to take into account regularity. Richard Zednik and Saku Koivu have a good beginning of season but it will be necessary that Czerkawski starts to play height of its talent. So long, Jacques
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 1, 2002 22:07:27 GMT -5
Patrick Crosses? OMALOL!!!
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Post by The New Guy on Nov 2, 2002 0:49:41 GMT -5
I have to agree with The Bad One on this guys...
Rivet and Saku, both 'team leaders' coming out and publicly supporting MT is not only an act of class, but one of true leadership. Sure - I'm sure they know something is afoot. I'm sure their aware that having Therrien at the reigns reminds us all too well poor Phaeton's error and frightens us with a similar fate.
But they are still players. He is still the coach. He is they're leader. Bottom line. Incompetant or not, until Therrien's superiors see fit to remove him, he is the team in-theatre commander. And they will follow.
That's something I was taught somewhere along the lines. A good leader is a good follower. It's a nescessary condition. If they were to come out and publicly harass Therrien, where would that leave them? What right do they truly have to question the coach? None. None whatsoever. And therefore, if they were to question Therrien, suddenly their own choices and moves as team leaders would be hauled under the same microscope as Therriens are. Hainsey could say "I don't like the way you make passes Saku. I want you to drop it to me the next time you're in the zone so I can do something with it."
Those whom have held power know it's hard to hold onto power and respect while people are looking to find fault in you.
This is not ass kissing. This is not sucking up to the coach. This is leadership.
Trying to create some semblance of order in a fractured dressing room.
Plain and simple.
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Post by seventeen on Nov 2, 2002 2:28:59 GMT -5
I don't think that much really has changed from last year. The team is still small, soft and has great goaltending. There is still no system, no consistent discipline in the defensive zone and very little use of young energy. But last year there appeared to be less dissension. How can this be explained? Despite their excessive salaries and my theory that 95% of the people in existence aren't that bright (which has to include most NHLr's), our Habs have an intuitive gut feeling that all athletes have....they know when they can win and when their chances are really lousy. What our players intuition is telling them is (as HA pointed out above) that they could pour their guts out with effort and would still have trouble making the playoffs, and then once in the playoffs will not survive past round 2, because they have a nincompoop behind the bench and they're now not so sure of his boss either. They're veterans (almost all of them) and they know time is not on their side, so what's a guy to do? Well some of the guys will openly complain about ice time. That's not really their beef, because if their play was the issue (which it is) and they had Bowman as a coach, they'd improve their play, earn more ice time, and win with the team. The whining is an excuse. They want a change because without it, they're walking the green mile and it's too early in the season to lose hope. The whining is their reaction to the situation. Others, perhaps believing MT is safe and whining won't help, back the coach, hoping AS comes to his senses, or the team loses often enough, despite good efforts, to force Savard into a change. Lots of potential reactions, but the basis for all of them is that MT is a vacuum and a waste of good seat behind the bench. The effort in tonight's game (which in the interests of fair disclosure I admit I didn't see) is a short term reaction to some dissension and the desire of the team to win, period. Or the players ate a lot of candy last night. Like all sugar highs, it won't last. And we'll be back where we were earlier. Sure wish you guys could see an interview of Marc Crawford after a Canucks game. They lost last night, and he didn't make excuses. He talked about the team not being able to make that next step up, about the fac there were no excuses, they just weren't working hard enough to create the opportunities for themselves and prevent opportunities for others. It was a reasoned, clear and honest reply. It is such a contrast to MT. Crawford explains why the team didn't succeed and it always revolves around their execution or effort. With MT, you'd think a politician was in charge, vague references, cliches, the other team 'gets up for us more than others', that sort of cheap drivel.
I also ask a question of all those who think Craig Rivet is becoming a leader. I think Craig does a good job of talking the talk. He could whistle dixie and make flatulent sounds with his armpits for all I care of what he has said. What has he done? What big hits has he made? Who has he sprung with a great pass? Which opposing player has he challenged to stand up for one of his guys? For all my criticism of Stephane Quintal's brain cramps, he's been more of a leader on the ice than Rivet. I say trade him while we've got everyone convinced he's a great leader and can get a decent return on him while dumping an outrageous salary. That's my sermon for today, folks. Damn pulpit is too high.
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Post by habwest on Nov 2, 2002 10:29:59 GMT -5
The sky is falling!! The sky is falling!! Thought I would just get that out of the way right off the bat. As far as Rivet goes, I kind of agree with Bad Co on this one. Doc may be right, but maybe things aren't fixable the quiet way so, since some players are criticising the coach publicly, Rivet chose to defend him publicly. As to Rivet's play, a question- because he's not knocking people down a lot does that necessarily mean that he's not playing well? Can he be effective w/o doing a lot of that? With the shoulders being banged up he may realize that his career will be quickly curtailed if he keeps up the heavy hitting (see Souray for a big guy being hurt a good part of the time) and so is trying to play within that limitation. I don't have the answer, I really would like to hear other opinions. Cheers.
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Post by MPLABBE on Nov 2, 2002 12:18:24 GMT -5
welll HW right now we need Rivet to be a physical force because he is our only d-man who can hit with no Q and Souray. He just needs to play like he did last night and no one will complain IMO
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Nov 2, 2002 17:25:43 GMT -5
Honestly, BC, I didn't read all of this string because you've hit a few good nerves here my friend. I really wanted to give you my reply without reading the responses first. This has the potential to develop into a major media feeding frenzy. Here's why.
He was one of the "leaders" who convinced Gilmour to come back for a second time around. Souray was the other I believe. As much as he is right in observing why certain players are getting less ice time, he may want to check himself when saying that publicly. It's one thing to support your coach, but not by condemning your teammates in the process. Very few leaders can get away with saying that. The ones who do usually back it up with their own on-ice efforts immediately following their comments. Craig is now in that position. He has been playing very well of late, but he's put himself in a position where he can't afford to look anything but flawless right now. In fact any mistake he makes right now, might be publicly overemphasized by some of the players he's targeted right now. Time to walk the walk and no excuses.
Right! This is the kind of man you want in your platoon. However, if he is critical of his peers in the process he runs the risk of having those peers deal with him directly. In fact he has to expect it now.
I said it during the summer, BC. Why are we bantering back and forth whether or not Therrien should be our coach. It's something we can't control. He's here, he has Savard's endorsement (and now the support of two respected players in Koivu and Rivet's). He's here and that's it. Let's get over it. At least Koivu and Rivet have.
Cheers.
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