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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Oct 29, 2002 23:03:01 GMT -5
Why would we be better off without Gilmour, Audette and Perreault? This is why:
Zednik/Koivu/Czerk
Bulis/Juneau/Petrov
Hossa/Kilger/Mckay
Lindsay/Gratton/Dackell
Everybody in this group of forwards would just shut up and skate. I'm sick of our play down the middle. It's disgusting.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Oct 29, 2002 23:10:36 GMT -5
Good post, JV.
By the way, have you noticed that we've had a fourth line this season with 5 million dollars in salary? As in Gilmour (1.8), Kilger (1.1) and Mckay (2.2)? Is this strictly necessary?
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Oct 29, 2002 23:14:45 GMT -5
Good post Johnny. No, it's not. It's a joke. That's why I think we should get Gratton up, dump some salary for picks if possible, and get on with the process of retooling the lineup. It would've been nice if this group went out and played some entertaining hockey and took us to 6th in the conference but that seems doubtful now. I know it's early, but we may as well start clearing the decks so that we can bring up one or two of Hossa, Plekanec (doubtful) and Balej (more doubtful). If it's too early for them, we can just go with Hossa and Gratton, get the team playing disciplined, responsible hockey and counterpunching on offence (except for the first line) and see where it goes.
Btw, good post.
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Post by Psycorp on Oct 30, 2002 0:20:57 GMT -5
Excuse me, this post bring a good point but Perreault didn't whine, he actually is one of the few who shut up on this team Right now here are the 'whiners" for this season: Gilmour Czerkawski Audette Kilger
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Post by seventeen on Oct 30, 2002 0:33:13 GMT -5
Man, JV. MT's got you talking to yourself.
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Post by PTH on Oct 30, 2002 3:30:37 GMT -5
JV, you feeling OK ?
With you suggesting we make room for some kids, you who's always said they'd come up when they were good and ready and no sooner, I wonder if perhaps you have a case of "myteamiscrappus". It can lead to an irresistible urge to change things around ASAP. I for one would rather not change plans this quickly.... I might not like ASs plans, but I'd rather see him stick to them while they make some sense still. IF he changes this fast, it means he never felt sure he was going the right way anyhow.
I disagree about Perreault though. While far from perfect, he's got a natural scorers touch that can come in quite handy. Perreault seems to be the forward version of Brisebois, a guy who somehow attracts a lot of flak for his playing style, even when overall his play is good enough. Perreault got us 2 goals in the Ottawa game off chances a lot of scoring forwards would have missed.... 2 goals that we needed badly.
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Post by Vinna on Oct 30, 2002 5:11:02 GMT -5
JV, you feeling OK ? I disagree about Perreault though. While far from perfect, he's got a natural scorers touch that can come in quite handy. Perreault seems to be the forward version of Brisebois, a guy who somehow attracts a lot of flak for his playing style, even when overall his play is good enough. Perreault got us 2 goals in the Ottawa game off chances a lot of scoring forwards would have missed.... 2 goals that we needed badly. I also have a problem with Perreault. He plays with no heart 90% of the time. He never battles along the boards and dosen't do the corner thing. It is pretty rare when he makes any effort in the slot. I haven't seen a player so scared to take a hit to make a play or get in scoring position since Kjell Dahlin left town. The only thing I like about him right now is his faceoff ability and his good hands. Other than that, I really don't see any redeeming qualities. When he does show a little grit he produces (Ottawa game) it's just to few and far between for my tastes.
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 30, 2002 8:26:35 GMT -5
Perreault and Audette are going nowhere.
Gilmour is the only guy who may leave if he keeps on sucking. Retirement awaits.
And your lineup is still pretty small JV
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Post by BadCompany on Oct 30, 2002 10:08:21 GMT -5
Well, everyone knows my opinion on Audette - I didn't like the trade all that much when it happened, I liked it less when I saw what other teams were willing to part with for Rucinsky, and I like even less still, now that I see the way the season has started. So if you want to dump Audette, that don't bother me much.
I disagree on Perrault though. Say what you will about Yanic, about how he is soft, and weak defensively, and won't pay a physical price - its all true - but you also can't deny the fact that he is one of, if not the most consistant point producer on this team. 8 points in 9 games this year, after leading the team last year. Until we stack the middle of our lineup with Forsberg, Sakic, Thornton, Lemieux type players, we need Yanic Perrault.
Doug Gilmour represents an interesting dilemna. Is he finished? Or at 40 years of age, does he just find it hard to get motivated enough for mid-October games? We thought he was finished last year too, and then he pulled through, and surprised us all, when the games mattered. Maybe, given his style of play, he just has to be properly motivated. He is an in-your-face, heart and soul type of player, and maybe he just can't get it up, so to speak, for an October game versus the Anaheim Mighty Ducks. Maybe he just doesn't have the energy to play that style all season long anymore.
So what to do then? Do you dump him? Ask him to retire? Try to peddle him to the Leafs for a mid-to-late-round pick? Or do you stick him on a checking line, 4th line, hope he doesn't hurt your team too much in the interim, and hope even harder still, that his dressing room influence is still strong, and that in the second half of the season, and the stretch run, he re-discovers a little passion for the game? Or do you gamble that he really is finished this time?
Given our lack of center depth, both here in and in the organization, and our lack of character players, I'd keep Gilmour. There are lots of other players we can dump first (hello Donald!) who have brought as much to the table so far this year as Dougie has, but who don't offer the intangibles and playoff-warrior status that Gilmour does. So he would be on the bottom of my "dumpable" list. Certainly, if a team like the Kings comes along, begging for help because of their injury situation, then you exploit it for all its worth, but if only scraps and crumbs are being offered, I would hold onto him.
So who would I dump? Audette goes first. Send him to Atlanta for as high a pick as you can get. Maybe a 2nd or 3rd or something. He was great down there his first time around, and next year is supposed to be a really good draft, lets stockpile. Call up Jason Ward, scrap the hi, ho, silver approach, and start building a real 4th line, an agitating, tough, annoying line.
I'd then dump Bill Lindsay. Minors, minor trade, outright release, whatever. I like Lindsay, I think he has a role to play, especially in the playoffs, but he is a waste of roster space at the moment, and with our three-headed goalie monster, we don't have a lot of roster space to waste. Guys like him are a dime-a-dozen at the trade deadline, and we can get one back then, if need be.
Longer term (as in, not tomorrow, but in a few weeks), I'd move Dykhuis and Petrov. I like both players, but the Habs, as a team, will never be anything of significance while these two play major roles. They can play major roles on teams, and thus have value, but I want to take the next step. Cut them now, while they can still be moved. Hopefully, in a few weeks, some of the kids in the AHL will start producing, and we won't feel the loss of karl and Oleg. Guys like Komisarek, Hossa, Balej, etc, who have so far been rather quiet.
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Post by BadCompany on Oct 30, 2002 10:09:54 GMT -5
Interim lineup, after this afternoon's BadCompany purge:
Zednik - Koivu - McKay: I think McKay's influence was seriously underestimated on this line. We need his body in front of the net when Koivu passes to Zednik who wires one.
Czerkawski- Perrault - Petrov: This line needs serious work, but Perrault seems to produce anyways, so what the heck.
Bulis - Juneau - Dackell: It ain't broke.
Kilger - Gilmour - Ward: Wake up call for Dougie. Let him kill penalties with Kilger on the second unit, and give him some powerplay time, but we can't keep carrying him.
Eric Landry: I'd call up Benoit Gratton, but he is the captain and veteran leader of the Hamilton Bulldogs, and his leadership is needed much more on the ice down there, than in the stands up here.
Defense:
Dykhuis - Brisebois: Brisebois is playing the best hockey of his career, but we still suck big-time in our own zone.
Hainsey - Rivet: Huge gamble. Markov has really grown beside Rivet, and with his shy and nervous nature, it might not be such a good idea to move him away just yet. But if Rivet can do what he did for Markov, with Hainsey, it might be well worth it. Hainsey is dying with Quintal.
Markov - Quintal: Flip side of the previous gamble. Not only have we taken away Markov's security blanket (Rivet), but we are asking him to carry Quintal. Markov has been one of our better defencemen this year, at both ends of the ice, but that ain't saying much. Will we destroy every gain we have made with him so far? Is it too early for this kind of step with him?
Traverse: Whatever. Spell Hainsey every once in while, and when nagging injuries hit.
Three-six weeks from now:
Zednik - Koivu - McKay : What a genius that BadCompany is! This line is clicking marvelously, Zednik is on pace for 34 goals, Koivu is averaging a point-per-game, and McKay's legs are a wonderous and lovely shade of blue, black and yellow, from all the hacks he has taken in front of the net.
Bulis - Perrault - Czerkawski : Chow is back on his proper side, and loving it. Bulis is proving to be the find Andre Savard has always hoped he would be, adding a (somewhat) physical presence to this line, as well as being its defensive conscience, and Perrault continues to be Perrault, winning every face-off and racking up a respectable share of points.
Hossa - Juneau - Dackell: Hossa slides into Bulis' old spot, and the line doesn't miss a step.
Eric Rasmussen - Chad Kilger - Jason Ward: Otherwise known as the "5 minute" line. Therrien can't roll four lines effectively anyways, so no point in putting guys here who need more than 5 minutes of ice time. Rasmussen, acquired from the Kings (or someone like him, I don't care who) is a big, swift-skating forward who throws his weight around, like Kilger and Ward do. Also kills penalties, on the second unit with Kilger. Rasmussen and Kilger are more than capable of filling in on higher lines when injuries strike, and are logical and sounds replacements for Juneau and Dackell in the coming years, on the 3rd line. Ward brings youthful hustle and work ethic to a team sorely lacking in both.
Ribeiro, Gilmour : Gilmour fills in every second game or so, accepting his role as a defensive, leadership specialist. Come playoff time, the fire re-kindles, and he makes Therrien's job difficult, trying to find room for him on the ice. Ditto for Ribeiro.
Defense:
Souray - Brisebois: Get some nastiness into the blueline.
Hainsey - Rivet : Brilliant strategy!
Markov - Quintal : How soon can we buy-out Quintal? Is Kyle McLaren still available?
Komisarek: Well, okay, maybe not just yet... But Dykhuis, Traverse, or Bouillon make decent enough 7th defencemen...
So there you have it. Habs win 12 in-a-row in January, finish the season at a .580 clip, take the division, cruise through the playoffs, and win the Stanley Cup after Philly chokes again. Seems like a simple enough plan to me...
(Well, there was so much open white space, I had to fill it in! Not my fault at all, the length of this post! Sheesh...)
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Post by Boston_Habs on Oct 30, 2002 10:30:52 GMT -5
I say dump Gilmour. If he can't "get it up" as you say for an October game against Anaheim, then he sould have NO problem playing 8 minutes a night on the 4th line until he decides he's ready to play. But Dougie wants it both ways - float around until March AND play 17 minutes a night. No way. He's a warrior and a future Hall of Famer, but I would either trade or release him to free up some roster space for guys who really want to be here and play hard every night.
My concern with Savard is whether or not he has the stomach to make a bold and potentially risky trade. So far all of his moves have been very conservative with minimal downside, but I think this team is crying out for bold action, either in the form of a major trade, or dumping guys like Gilmour, Audette, Perreault, or Czerkawski, which would be bold only insofar as Savard would be admitting he made a mistake by stocking up one-dimensional players.
Serge Savard had his faults, but he wasn't afraid to pull the trigger on a big trade like the Recchi and Turgeon deals. Of course we had high profile talent to make those trades; we don't now.
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Post by UberCranky on Oct 30, 2002 10:49:20 GMT -5
Good post BC and interesting thread JV . BC, do you think anything will change unless you change the head? Do you really think it's the players who are unable or unwilling or do you think that they are getting fed up? Did you hear about Koivu and Breezy? Is this club under control? Are the players splintering into groups? I don't want to ask too many questions, what, with having to do the money earning thing while posting. Bahhh, work, doesn't work for me.
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 30, 2002 12:21:05 GMT -5
Interim lineup, after this afternoon's BadCompany purge: Zednik - Koivu - McKay: I think McKay's influence was seriously underestimated on this line. We need his body in front of the net when Koivu passes to Zednik who wires one. McKay healthy yes. The McKay of the broken foot? no.. Small, soft, Chow on the wrong side Amen Landry? isn't he in Utah or something? I like this idea and I think it should be tried. and HA is nominated for a nobel prize Rasmussen? who are you dealing to get him?
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Post by clear observer on Oct 30, 2002 12:24:05 GMT -5
Markov-Quintal?
Please Lord, no!
Markov has made strides, granted, but not nearly enough to be able to cover for Q-ball. I think such a move would be disastrous.
CO
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 30, 2002 12:34:05 GMT -5
Markov-Quintal? Please Lord, no! Markov has made strides, granted, but not nearly enough to be able to cover for Q-ball. I think such a move would be disastrous. CO Basically, NONE of our D-man could cover for Q-ball. MAYBE Dykhuis. You can't put a kid out there and expect them to save Q-ball
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