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Post by clear observer on Oct 24, 2002 21:14:39 GMT -5
Points are harder to attain now than in April. Savard's gotta keep all options open and explore any and all avenues that will help the team get out of this miserable rut. The boys are not responding; whether it's the coaching, poor execution, or an all-out player revolt, the boys don't seem to want to play.
If this continues into the 2nd week of Nov...I'd can the clowns behind the bench.
CO
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 24, 2002 21:14:55 GMT -5
I can't vote because a big trade and firing the coaches is probably needed.
It's a tough situation.
You fire MT and you still have the same roster. You have to hope a new coach will bring the spark to this group
You make a big trade and you still have MT on board.
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Oct 24, 2002 21:31:08 GMT -5
Points are harder to attain now than in April. Savard's gotta keep all options open and explore any and all avenues that will help the team get out of this miserable rut. The boys are not responding; whether it's the coaching, poor execution, or an all-out player revolt, the boys don't seem to want to play. If this continues into the 2nd week of Nov...I'd can the clowns behind the bench. CO We're on the same page, CO. I thought about this at the Pittsburgh game. Do they dislike Therrien? Is this why they seem to be dogging it? I'd can the coaching staff if things just don't work out. Any suggestions? Cheers.
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Post by PTH on Oct 24, 2002 21:40:44 GMT -5
Try to swing a big trade 2 (33%)
Well, we don't have much to trade. Our significant assets right now are depreciated. Maybe move some minor-value assets to shake things up though.
Fire the coaches 2 (33%) Nah.... they aren't that bad. MT is a decent fill-in, unless you have a clearly superior candidate who wants to come over. And MT is Boivin's coach more than AS's...
Send a vet or 2 in the stands and call up some kids for Hamilton 2 (33%) That's my take. That, hold the course for the rest, and play the hot goalie.
Stay put and let the storm pass 0 (0%) You gotta do something IMO. Doing nothing should never be an option. Doing nothing too radical would be wise though.
Ask your secretary to screen calls from GG for now... The second AS fears for his job he's a goner. He's already tentative, imagine if he thought his employer were making a cost-analysis of this team..... he's never made a good move that didn't cost us cash, so he'd be stuck.
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 24, 2002 22:00:13 GMT -5
which coaches are available? HA is right--we needed Hithcock. Heck, the Flyers certainly don't play a ''boring'' style of game with him at the helm. He has just taken control of that team and it shows. He would have NEVER accepted what the Habs did tonight. Do we bring Ted Nolan out of nowhere? what do we do?
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Post by HFTO on Oct 24, 2002 22:57:14 GMT -5
There are too many passengers an early season move could just do the trick,some sort of a shake up is needed. Though I also would like to see MT gone I still Nov.18 on that front. HFTO
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Post by clear observer on Oct 24, 2002 23:19:07 GMT -5
Can you imagine The Big Bird as mentor to Hainsey, Komi and Markov?
Bring Larry Home!
CO
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Post by HFTO on Oct 25, 2002 7:22:42 GMT -5
Spiro where do I sign the petition. Though I'm not sure Larry's into the media circus this job entails,Coco sure couldn't stomach it. HFTO
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Post by Chopper on Oct 25, 2002 9:18:19 GMT -5
How about bringing back a certain MR. Scott Bowman. (I know it's just wishful thinking.) I do agree about bringing in Larry.
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Post by Chopper on Oct 25, 2002 9:22:08 GMT -5
Ted Nolan would also be great, but it seems you have to speak french in order to coach in MTL. The french media would go nuts having an english only coach. What are people's thoughts on having Michel Bergeron coach the habs. Even though I know he probably won't what are your thoughts on that.
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 25, 2002 9:51:00 GMT -5
Screw the french media is what I say. We are looking for a coach, not a PR guy. If the best coach available doesn't speak french...does it matter? 50% say the coaches should be fired!!!
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Post by Bobs_HABit on Oct 25, 2002 10:17:56 GMT -5
Well, I would say fire the coaches. Heck I've been saying it for a year now but it ain't happening. MT's there for the rest of the season unless the wheels really come off. If we would have won last night, MT, AS or whoever you would have asked would have been saying how we have a 4 game unbeaten streak. Sure two of those were ties but it would have been true. You don't fire a coach after you just extended his contract unless he's lost 10 in a row.
I really believe what we need is a real shakeup. Some of the vets know they're untouchable and it shows. There is a real sense of complacency around this team and they need a shakeup.
I say you swap Ward for Lindsay. No one will claim Lindsay and if they do, so what, we just saved some cash. I would also recall Hossa with Audette in the press box for a week or two and then send DA to Hamilton for 'conditioning' that might wake him up.
I guarantee that Ward and Hossa would add some effort to this lineup. I swear last night that Saku was the only one trying out there. And for God's sake, give them minutes, throw Hossa with Saku and see what happens. Make some veterans look over their shoulders.
Even sit Dougie if necessary. He may be trying but he sure isn't helping. Tell him he's looking slow out there and he's going to play every second game for a little while.
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Post by Ged on Oct 25, 2002 11:34:26 GMT -5
29th overall on both the PP and the PK. Last year the players complained about not practicing the PP enough. Surely a good coach would have had woken up at that point and approached this season with an emphasis on practicing the power play. Bottom of the barrel on special teams pretty much sums up what kind of coaching staff we have. Normally you could make all kinds of excuses in defending a coach but the stats speak for themselves. Czerkawski, Theodore, Audette, and pretty much everybody has sucked. Koivu and Markov have been the stand outs and have come to play every game. We got hit by a tsunami last night, and there are a bunch of players that aren't buying into the coaching game plan, assuming there is one.
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Post by Chopper on Oct 25, 2002 11:41:34 GMT -5
Screw the french media is what I say. We are looking for a coach, not a PR guy. If the best coach available doesn't speak french...does it matter? 50% say the coaches should be fired!!! I agree totally it's not politics, it's hockey. With GG the owner maybe it'll happen. But for some reason I don't think it will.
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Post by PTH on Oct 25, 2002 11:44:57 GMT -5
I agree totally it's not politics, it's hockey. With GG the owner maybe it'll happen. But for some reason I don't think it will. It's not about politics, it's sound management. You can't have your coach be unable to communicate with well over half your fanbase. As much as we like to think the Habs are a multinational phenomenon (which they are), they always have to satisfy the ticket buyers first and foremost. Anyone here think a coach who spoke no English would be hired in Toronto ? Even assuming he could communicate with his players, the media wouldn't stand it, unless he had such a HUGE success no one could argue with it, and even then, that kind of success never lasts very long. The language constraint is a contraint, but it is also a necessity.
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Post by Chopper on Oct 25, 2002 14:30:37 GMT -5
They said the same thing about being a Canadiens captain, the player needs to be french. Remember the whole deal with Keane saying he didn't think he needed to learn french. I think that myth has been put to rest, seeing as Koivu is probably the most liked hab after Theo. The french media doesn't seem to have a problem with it anymore, and as far as I know Koivu hasn't enrolled in any french lessons. I know it's a little different for a coach who has a press conference almost everyday here in Montreal, but journalists are able to communicate with the english players just fine, I'm sure most if not all the french press can speak english.
Wouldn't sound management be getting the best coach available to help your team win. Would less people follow the habs if they're coach only spoke english but finished first in the league. Felipe Alou was a very succesful manager for the Expos, he didn't speak french. I'd be very curious as to see whether francophones without french media influence would be bothered by having an anglophone coach.
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Post by PTH on Oct 25, 2002 15:34:02 GMT -5
Keane got dealt because of what he said, and Koivu is a special player, we all recognize that. If an English-only guy who's nothing special (say Rivet) were captain and didn't show an interest in speaking some French, he'd go the Keane route. Muller tried to learn French at least.
It's important to me and it's important to a lot of fans to have a coach who speaks French.
And don't use the "they all speak English anyhow" excuse.... that basically is a slap in the face to the French language and Québec culture, and it's awfully unfair - the ones who bother to learn the other culture are the ones who have to lose their own ? No wonder some people want to have their own country.
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 25, 2002 15:49:25 GMT -5
PTH, do you think Alouette fans care if Don Matthews doesn't speak of word of french?
No they don't because the team is winning under him.
I think people would certainly accept it if the team was winning...
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Post by Chopper on Oct 25, 2002 16:01:42 GMT -5
I don't mean any offense to the francophone culture, by suggesting that an anglophone can coach a hockey team in Montreal. I'm an anglophone in Montreal but I'm perfectly bilingual and I cheer for the habs as much as any francophone. I'm interested in seeing the habs win, whether that means getting a french coach, an english coach, or a russian coach. If he can communicate with the players and help them win, than I don't have a problem, and I don't see why anyone else should either.
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Post by PTH on Oct 25, 2002 16:20:02 GMT -5
PTH, do you think Alouette fans care if Don Matthews doesn't speak of word of french? No they don't because the team is winning under him. I think people would certainly accept it if the team was winning... The Al's aren't the cultural phenomenon the Habs are. To me having a core of local guys on the team and a coach who can talk with the fans and reporters who actually live there are pre-requisites to success of the business. Period. And I'm always amazed at how many people choose to ignore this and put it back in question.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Oct 25, 2002 17:10:31 GMT -5
Sell high. Buy low.
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 25, 2002 17:44:43 GMT -5
hey mr bozo..got any names in mind?
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Post by jkr on Oct 25, 2002 18:44:15 GMT -5
PTH, do you think Alouette fans care if Don Matthews doesn't speak of word of french? No they don't because the team is winning under him. I think people would certainly accept it if the team was winning... I have to agree with PTH on this. You cannot compare the Expos or Als to the Habs. No matter what the other teams do Montreal is a hockey town. The other sports are secondary. I see baseball as an American import. The public face of the team must be Francophone but I think the fans understand that the expertise in running a baseball club is largely American. Don Matthews does not speak French but the team has french speaking players. Until last year Larry Smith ( a bilingual anglophone) was president. I don't think the Als ignored the French speaking majority, I actually think they cultivated it. The Habs are in a class by themselves in Montreal. The coach must be able to communicate with fans. Can you imagine having a English speaking coach? What do you do in the media - translate what he says. To me it smacks of arrogance and would tarnish the organization.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Oct 25, 2002 19:20:49 GMT -5
I have to agree with PTH on this. You cannot compare the Expos or Als to the Habs. No matter what the other teams do Montreal is a hockey town. The other sports are secondary. I see baseball as an American import. The public face of the team must be Francophone but I think the fans understand that the expertise in running a baseball club is largely American. Don Matthews does not speak French but the team has french speaking players. Until last year Larry Smith ( a bilingual anglophone) was president. I don't think the Als ignored the French speaking majority, I actually think they cultivated it. The Habs are in a class by themselves in Montreal. The coach must be able to communicate with fans. Can you imagine having a English speaking coach? What do you do in the media - translate what he says. To me it smacks of arrogance and would tarnish the organization. The fans would rather hear "We won!" than "on a perdu", pardon my French
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Post by Haburgher on Oct 25, 2002 19:58:02 GMT -5
I think the most important thing to do is not to panic. Take time a search for a quality replacement for MT.
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Post by seventeen on Oct 25, 2002 20:13:41 GMT -5
As Bob suggested, unless there is pressure from below, the inclination for vets, espeically if they don't care for the coach, is to give 85%. That's just enough to look like you're trying, but not enough to actually win anything. The best solution is to fire MT and Green, but unless you're prepared to give the reins to Charron, (which may not necessarily be a bad idea), then you end up in a situation with an interim coach again. You've got to reduce the number of players to give you some freedom of movement. That's the easy part. The tough part is getting anything of value for them when you're in a weak negotiating position. But then...we didn't put them in that position, they did it themselves, despite all our warnings. They really have to start reading HabsRus to broaden their education.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Oct 27, 2002 16:13:24 GMT -5
I have to admit that I place the blame for this on Savards shoulders, not MT's. MT, like Tremblay and Houle is trying his best. If a man tries his best and still fails, the responsibility must be shared by Savard and Boivin. I wish I could blame Molson's for this one too, but in all honesty they are quitters and not responsible for this one too. GG is too busy skiing to take responsibility, but his day will come soon. Therrien is not a good coach. He is trying everything he knows and can't do it. Like the Bimbo's on "The Bachelor" ya gotta tell them sorry and cut them loose.
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 27, 2002 16:28:54 GMT -5
I have to admit that I place the blame for this on Savards shoulders, not MT's. MT, like Tremblay and Houle is trying his best. If a man tries his best and still fails, the responsibility must be shared by Savard and Boivin. I wish I could blame Molson's for this one too, but in all honesty they are quitters and not responsible for this one too. GG is too busy skiing to take responsibility, but his day will come soon. Therrien is not a good coach. He is trying everything he knows and can't do it. Like the Bimbo's on "The Bachelor" ya gotta tell them sorry and cut them loose. you can blame Molson...they were still the owners when MT was brought into the org ;D
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