|
Post by MPLABBE on Oct 25, 2002 10:01:14 GMT -5
It has become clear to me that Petrov is the kind of player who needs great talent on his line to produce. A Koivu or a Zednik or a Gilmour with the way he played late last year. Put him with Perreault or the current Gilmour and he is nowhere near as productive.
There is no reason to overpay for this guy Andre. If he thinks he is so good and is worth 2-3-4 million per year, let him test the UFA market and just give the spot to a youngster. Overpaying for mediocrety is exactly what we can't do.
We need to start making choice among the smurfs and since Audette/Chow are unmovable due to big salaries, Petrov looks like the only winger who can be traded right now. Plus he is a RW and we have too many of those right now
Anyone else agree?
|
|
|
Post by JohnnyVerdun on Oct 25, 2002 10:19:35 GMT -5
I'll take Petrov any day. The guy works his ass off, he's indestructible, he uses his body as a projectile almost as often as Koivu, and he obviously has some finish (24 goals last year). So what if he needs a good centerman? How's he any different from Czerk or Audette or Bulis or Zednik? Wingers who can score need to get the puck in the red zone. The only one who's doing that consistently is Koivu. After that it's Juneau and then we have the soft dump or stupid pass duo in Gilmour and Perreault.
I would sign Petrov to a three year extension for 1.5 each, no doubt about it. You know what you're going to get from this guy, and if he were on Koivu's wing right now he'd be getting chances and points....I'd take Petrov for the next two or three years ahead of Perreault, Audette or Mckay, if I had to choose. Frankly, it'd be nice to be able to make that choice, but the fact is that we may get stuck with at least two and possibly all three of those guys....
|
|
|
Post by Viper on Oct 25, 2002 10:37:58 GMT -5
I agree no wait i don't agree hold on yes i do???
When Petrov first played for us i hated him he was just a little smurfy guy who had no place in this league IMO then he went back to europe only to rejoin Le Club again. In The last couple year's he's been durable as hell and among team leader's for point's so he served a great purpose while we lead the league in Injuries he was pretty much the only dependable forward we had(how scary is that) now his real value is coming through but we just need to find a way to use him effectively.
Petrov is a victim of our circumstance's at center just as Audette and Czerkawski are. If we more Quality up the middle alot of the question marks on the wings will be answered. Petrov could be the link to a possible trade for a better Center. He has more than proven his abilities on a very weak team surely the other GM's In the league must see how much value he has.
|
|
|
Post by The New Guy on Oct 25, 2002 10:52:39 GMT -5
As it happens Marc, most wingers need a talented centre to be at their most effective. Hull, certainly a great player in his own right, never had the production with Janney that he did with Oates. It's just a fact of life. A talented centre can make or break a talented winger.
When you compare Oleg to our current glut of right wings (Zednik, McKay, Czerkawski, Audette & Dackell), Oleg brings a lot to the table. He's got more scoring punch than McKay and Dackell and he's more defensively responsible that Audette and Czerkawski. I'd move Chow or Audi long before I moved Petrov. Petrov leaves it all on the ice when he plays - as has been mentioned, he plays like Koivu.
Unless his demands are exorbiant (2 mil a year would be too high, but 1.5-1.7 range is acceptable) I'd resign him - even if it meant we had to move at cost one of our other RW's to make room.
Just my two cents
|
|
|
Post by Viper on Oct 25, 2002 11:39:42 GMT -5
I think 2 mill is fair for oleg he has put up same kind of offensive number's Mckay has and we are paying him 2.1 mill
Dallas drake in st.loius is making 2.5 and Petrov has career high number's better than drake's they are both similar player's.
2 mill we would be getting off easy IMO.
|
|
|
Post by PTH on Oct 25, 2002 11:45:55 GMT -5
I'd have no problem keeping him for up to 2 million. But if AS thought as we do, I doubt he would have brought in as many similar-style players...
|
|
|
Post by Chopper on Oct 25, 2002 11:49:51 GMT -5
I'm with Marc on this one. A Petrov type player can be picked up easily for depth. 24 goals on a first line isn't that great, and that's where he played most of last year. Don't get me wrong he had a great yer filling in, but, this year will be different with Koivu, Audette, Mckay and Czerkawski in the lineup. We've all been complaining about AS wanting mediocrity, I think locking up Petrov is another move in that direction. Trade him, make room for a youngster. If I had to choose between Petrov and Hossa, I'd definately go with Hossa. He'd probably end up with around the same amount of points as Petrov this year but it's his first year, and he'll only get better. Enough with 2-3-4th line players let's get some new offensive blood in the system.
|
|
|
Post by JohnnyVerdun on Oct 25, 2002 13:02:14 GMT -5
24 goals on a team that had no Koivu last year is pretty good. Perreault is not the kind of center who is going to produce many 25 goal seasons for his wingers. After that, we had Gilmour, who didn't get going until February, Juneau, who's role was defensive, and Shaun Van Allen, who toiled on the 4th line. So to say that 24 goals isn't great for the first line is true as a general rule, but in the circumstances it was pretty good.
|
|
|
Post by Viper on Oct 25, 2002 13:21:40 GMT -5
I'm with Marc on this one. A Petrov type player can be picked up easily for depth. 24 goals on a first line isn't that great, and that's where he played most of last year. Don't get me wrong he had a great yer filling in, but, this year will be different with Koivu, Audette, Mckay and Czerkawski in the lineup. We've all been complaining about AS wanting mediocrity, I think locking up Petrov is another move in that direction. Trade him, make room for a youngster. If I had to choose between Petrov and Hossa, I'd definately go with Hossa. He'd probably end up with around the same amount of points as Petrov this year but it's his first year, and he'll only get better. Enough with 2-3-4th line players let's get some new offensive blood in the system. here's the point i think needs to be made Petrov can provide for us what audette or cerkawski will so why did we acquire those two when we could have just used Petrov and hossa in the first place and saved ourselves some payroll.
|
|
|
Post by Forum Ghost on Oct 25, 2002 14:17:15 GMT -5
After the way the Habs have been playing thus far, it seems that AS needs to change the smurf image of this team.
I love lil' Oleg, and his effort and desire are second to none, but that doesn't mean that he should be re-signed to a multi-year deal. Last year was without a doubt a career year for Petrov. I was hoping that AS would move him during the offseason as his value was at it's all time high.
Watching the game last night, it seemed that everytime Oleg would dart into the offensive zone he would get easily pushed aside by the bigger Philly dmen. I'm not saying that small guys can't cut it in the NHL. Players like Koivu, Briere and Samsonov have proven that they can play in this league. But they all have high levels of skill that come with their size. For all the effort Oleg gives, he will never have the skill level that these guys have. Aside from Petrov's hustle, what else can we really boast about his game?
I will be very disappointed if Oleg is signed to a multi-year deal. I love his heart and his desire and he was a great player when the Habs were suffering all of their injuries in the past three years, but he will never match his numbers from last season. He his not among our greatest passers or finishers. His only asset is his speed, which we have in abundance. I really hope that AS can deal him and get some much, much needed size in return.
|
|
|
Post by Chopper on Oct 25, 2002 14:18:43 GMT -5
Viper, I think my point is I just don't want another middle of the pack 30 year old small forward signed to a long term deal. Do we agree on that? You know what I just want something done to shake up the team. Bring in some of the young guys, give Ward a chance, Hossa. What's the harm, they can't be any less productive than 0 points, from Audette, Czerk, Petrov, and Gilmour.
Being a UFA at the end of the season and seeing as Audette seems to be staying and Czerk just got here, it seems for a trade Petrov is the most likely to go.
|
|
|
Post by Viper on Oct 25, 2002 14:23:36 GMT -5
oh i agree there chopper of course anyone who doesn't is in need of a psycho surgical examination of some kind.
I was just expanding on an issue that is killing us and that is our overabundance of average joe's who should naver have been signed in the first place when we have the Hossa's and such in the system who can provide the same thing.
i agreed with ya from the start just question the logic behind the signing's of player's that effectively we already had.
|
|
|
Post by Chopper on Oct 25, 2002 14:32:13 GMT -5
oh i agree there chopper of course anyone who doesn't is in need of a psycho surgical examination of some kind. I was just expanding on an issue that is killing us and that is our overabundance of average joe's who should naver have been signed in the first place when we have the Hossa's and such in the system who can provide the same thing. i agreed with ya from the start just question the logic behind the signing's of player's that effectively we already had. Maybe AS thought we were going to miss 500 man games every year?! ;D
|
|
|
Post by MPLABBE on Oct 25, 2002 16:23:18 GMT -5
24 goals on a team that had no Koivu last year is pretty good. Perreault is not the kind of center who is going to produce many 25 goal seasons for his wingers. After that, we had Gilmour, who didn't get going until February, Juneau, who's role was defensive, and Shaun Van Allen, who toiled on the 4th line. So to say that 24 goals isn't great for the first line is true as a general rule, but in the circumstances it was pretty good. Petrov was on the 1st power play unit last year. He got plenty of ice time. Same thing in 2000-01. Petrov is not a bad player. He just doesn't fit in with this team if his center is not Koivu(or last year's Gilmour) and if we have Audette and Czerkawski on the right side. Some of the ''smurfs'' have to go.
|
|
|
Post by JohnnyVerdun on Oct 25, 2002 16:41:54 GMT -5
Petrov was on the 1st power play unit last year. He got plenty of ice time. Same thing in 2000-01. Petrov is not a bad player. He just doesn't fit in with this team if his center is not Koivu(or last year's Gilmour) and if we have Audette and Czerkawski on the right side. Some of the ''smurfs'' have to go. Essentially, what you're saying is that he needs a good centerman. But that's true of every winger. Bulis and Dackell, Czerkawski or Audette, it doesn't matter. Petrov doesn't fit in any less than Czerk or Audette, and the reason for that is that we're slow, small and weak at center. Consider that when the mighty Mike Ribeiro comes back with his busted Portuguese chicken wing.... And as for the smurf thing, I'd rather have Petrov than Audette or Czerkawski, and leaving aside the fact that they play different positions, I'd rather have Petrov than Perreault, who's 3 inches taller and 20 pounds heavier. BTW, Koivu's a smurf by NHL standards.
|
|
|
Post by MPLABBE on Oct 25, 2002 16:53:42 GMT -5
Essentially, what you're saying is that he needs a good centerman. But that's true of every winger. Bulis and Dackell, Czerkawski or Audette, it doesn't matter. Petrov doesn't fit in any less than Czerk or Audette, and the reason for that is that we're slow, small and weak at center. Consider that when the mighty Mike Ribeiro comes back with his busted Portuguese chicken wing.... busted Portuguese chicken wing? LOL but if you look at who you can trade...none of those 3 (Aud, Czerk, Perrier as you call him) have that much value with their age and salary. Petrov is the guy who is the cheapest and the one who works harder. so?? IMO--your smurfs have to be extremly talented guys. Guys like Koivu or Samsonov or Kariya,etc. If you have to many of them who are good but nothing special ability wise, you are in trouble.
|
|
|
Post by Viper on Oct 25, 2002 17:22:04 GMT -5
And as for the smurf thing, I'd rather have Petrov than Audette or Czerkawski, and leaving aside the fact that they play different positions, I'd rather have Petrov than Perreault, who's 3 inches taller and 20 pounds heavier. I couldn't agree more but to tell you the truth JV even though Oleg has been alot more visible than czerk and audette this year this one thing bother's me. He seems to have forgotten he has 4 more player's on the ice with him. Every game i've watched he seems to be dragging the puck 10 or 20 feet further than he has to directly into traffic only to be easily pushed off the puck. I remember the oleg of last year not being such a puck hog for lack of a better term. when your that small using speed is important but give and go's are equally helpful to get by bigger player's. He has been frustrating to watch this year for me. At least he has been visible unlike the other two though.
|
|
|
Post by JohnnyVerdun on Oct 25, 2002 17:27:14 GMT -5
That's a good call, Viper. You're right. Now that you mention it. All I can guess is that he's been out there with guys who aren't getting to the net or to the open spots with any jump. I somehow doubt it's his first choice. He can do Koivu-like things sometimes but he's not nearly the passer Koivu is. Look for him to do less of that stuff on Saturday. Word is he'll be playing on Koivu's right. I expect the three of them to have a good night. If they click (Zed and Koivu are already clicking) I'd even put them out there on the pp. All three of them are willing to go to the well.
|
|
|
Post by MPLABBE on Oct 25, 2002 17:50:55 GMT -5
Zed-Koivu-Petrov.
Koivu replaces Gilmour if you compare to last year
That line should be pretty good.
|
|