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Post by Viper on Oct 24, 2002 20:26:23 GMT -5
The First Period was somewhat cautioas from both sides. The first flyer goal was not Thedore's fault who played the period way more confidently than i've seen him play thus far. The Koivu goal was a beauty wasn't it undressing the defender and pumping it through chechmanek's leg's. The team overall seemed to forecheck much better and their passing was very good tape to tape. The powerplay was finally very good because they realized the puck doesn't go in unless you actually shoot it at the net if we had a big guy like Komi to plant in front of the net we could have probably capitolized on that one chance in the first.
Downside in first for me was Perreault still makes one to many passes and floats alot. Gilmour is really looking old.
Second period what possesed MT to start juggling lines at the beginning of the period. We sucked can anything else be said about it, except the nifty play for the second goal and the goaltending change nobody did anything worthwhile except Hackett. I guess therrien learned from the buffalo game that sometimes a goaltending change is not a bad thing.
Cerkawski can't forecheck their's nothing i hate worse than when the opponent's defender is behind his own net and our forechecker is standing in front of the goalie staring at him. Gilmour is still slow. I still liked the period Bulis had he was hitting and hussling even when not with dacks and juneau to start the period there's more to him than we are crediting him for.
Third Period no better than second really hackett held the fort while everyone else basically skates around lost.Hainsey had a strong night i thought anyhow we stunk after period one
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 24, 2002 20:28:19 GMT -5
1st period: good 2nd period: no comment 3rd period: see 2nd period a result of and to think we have a top 10 payroll for this...what a waste...
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Post by Doc Holliday on Oct 24, 2002 20:42:56 GMT -5
HABS were right in that game until Theo gave 3 bad goals in a row....
That's the story of it. To paraphrase a certain rat "...Therrien lost the OSTIE de game for us..." and he had lost it before the first faceoff. He had to play Hackett but went with some kinda political decision to play Jose. When the coach isn't ready to play the players that will give you the best chance to win, we shouldn't be surprised that the players don't seem to give a crap on the ice either.
I bet Andre Savard will now get down in that dressing room to kick some butts because Therrien and friends and in over their heads... ...once more.
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 24, 2002 20:44:47 GMT -5
Doc are you saying MT isn't playing Koivu's and Juneau's lines enough as well?
It's time for AS to show who is boss now. Going into dressing room worked last year and may be the solution this year.
Anything right now. Watching blowouts like these is boring and painful.
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Post by Viper on Oct 24, 2002 20:47:49 GMT -5
HABS were right in that game until Theo gave 3 bad goals in a row.... wait a minute here one bounces of a shin pad another is shorthanded because our defender's are brutal at coming back while they are on the powerplay i beg to differ with ya on that one. Pulling him was the right move but it wasn't theo's fault
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Post by Doc Holliday on Oct 24, 2002 20:49:44 GMT -5
Doc are you saying MT isn't playing Koivu's and Juneau's lines enough as well? It's time for AS to show who is boss now. Going into dressing room worked last year and may be the solution this year. Anything right now. Watching blowouts like these is boring and painful. After the 2nd it was obvious we were gonna lose. If MT had balls, Perreault, Chow, Gilmour and Audette wouldn't have set a skate on the ice for the whole 3rd period. ..but that would make his boss look bad I need a beer or 12 right now.
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 24, 2002 20:58:12 GMT -5
After the 2nd it was obvious we were gonna lose. If MT had balls, Perreault, Chow, Gilmour and Audette wouldn't have set a skate on the ice for the whole 3rd period. ..but that would make his boss look bad I need a beer or 12 right now. what can you do...Koivu and Juneau would be exhausted by the end of a game that is lost... Now watch this team beat the not physical Sens..
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Post by 24andcounting on Oct 24, 2002 22:06:38 GMT -5
I'm with Doc on this one. Sit those guys out. Right now they're just collecting paycheques, happy to be earning a regular salary. Gilmour is not even a shadow of what he was attempting to be in the early part of last season...will he regain the form he showed LATER in the season last year? At this rate, it's doubtful. And it hurts to watch Perrault. He's incredibly slow and plays with ZERO intensity...he does benefit from scoring fairly often because of good positioning, but it's usually in anticipation rather than reaction. I wish we had an entire team of Zeds. He comes to play night in and night out. Kind of like Petrov used to. And it's true, MT should have been playing Hack tonight -- this is painful to watch. Bright spot is Koivu, but I worry he's even going to want to stay with this team long term. I shudder to see where we'd be without him...he's got some dazzle that makes it still kind of fun to watch when it gets down to 6-2. Off to bed, and it's going to be hard to sleep, I'm so darned mad.
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Post by Vichab on Oct 25, 2002 1:57:36 GMT -5
This team needs a shake up. Whether through a trade or benching some players but it simply is in a funk. The usual suspects did not show up tonight: Cz, Gilmour, Petrov, Audette, Perreault - the list goes on. What is with Petrov these days? He thinks he's a one man show trying to beat people and all he does is give up the puck. Most of these guys are simply unnoticeable out there until they make a gaff.
Thank God for Saku. This guy shows up every night and every shift. He is a pleasure to watch just for his energy and enthusiasm. Zed was ok as was Markov.
Q is by far and away our worst dman and is painful to watch. He is slow, rarely in position and does not play tough which is the only reason we have him. I can't believe Hainsey has to start his career with this pilon. Hainsey i thought had his worst game yet. I thought he played well in the earlier games but tonight he seemed off. But playing with q has to be a serious handicap.
What's it going to take to get us out of this funk?
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Post by HFTO on Oct 25, 2002 7:28:30 GMT -5
The more I think about it the more I feel cheated as a fan there was absolutely no effort at all especially in the second. It really makes you want to puke! Chow and Audette are stealing their pay cheques right in front of our eyes.If your going to lose do it with some dignity. They've pissed me off! HFTO
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 25, 2002 8:03:40 GMT -5
You can't sit 5 guys. It just won't happen. Besides if we sit one, the great Bill Lindsay will re-enter the lineup...oh yey!
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Post by Douper on Oct 25, 2002 8:09:49 GMT -5
my habs 3 stars...
Bullis Hackett Koivu
Bullis is on fire and I believe they should put him on a line with Koivu and Zednik. Also they should ride Hacketts coat tales until he slumps...Theo must learn that he is not guaranteed a job. Back to Bullis...He is the best forechecker we have and he plays with energy. They should put this line against the big lines, it worked last night ...Recchi, LeClair, JR did nothing last night cause Zed and Koivu gave them some fits in the dzone. Best way to combat the best line on the other team is to keep them in the dzone. Keep Juneau and Dackall together but the rest of the players have to find a spot cause it just isn't working.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Oct 25, 2002 8:10:12 GMT -5
I'll say it again. Why the fu*k did Savard take the option on Gilmour for another year? The guy is not only old, but has clearly said to himself that he has no intention of giving 100% until the season is two-thirds over, and then only if we're still in a playoff hunt. Thanks but no thanks, Dougie.
As has been said on Doc's asset mgmt post, right now this is a team with no identity, as you have too many forwards expecting lots of ice time, and MT doesn't have the cohones to just sit people.
As for Theo, he WILL get it together and be fine, but right now Hackett is clearly the better goalie and should get at least the next two starts.
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 25, 2002 8:12:56 GMT -5
Boston, they picked up the option on Gilmour because they had no idea how good and how durable Koivu would be this year.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Oct 25, 2002 8:58:50 GMT -5
I know, but I still would have rolled the dice and gambled that Koivu would be OK. It was just as big a gamble to bring back Gilmour and assume he would pick up wher he left of at the end of last year. He looks horrible right now. We could have replaced Gilmour's production elsewhere.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Oct 25, 2002 9:26:50 GMT -5
Bill Lindsay should absolutely be in the lineup. We should be straining ourselves to produce another line like the Juneau line. How to do that? Put Kilger at center. Put Lindsay on one wing and Petrov on the other. No shortage of work ethic on their part.
Zednik/Koivu/Czerkawski (got to get Czerk going) Bulis/Juneau/Dackell (these guys never stop working) Lindsay/Kilger/Petrov (bang and skate) Perreault/Gilmour/Mckay (8 minutes of ice to start)
Audette sits.
Some comments:
1. Mckay is not creating a lot of space and he's not able to keep up with the pace. Nor can he "protect" Koivu. Koivu has to take his lumps like everyone else. The only problem is that right now the opposition knows that Koivu is (again) being forced to carry the team offensively;
2. Czerk and Audette need Koivu. Try Czerk for four games. If he gets 2 or fewer points in that span I'll eat my hat;
3. Keep playing the Juneau line 16+ minutes a night. Juneau still skates better than Audette, Gilmour, Mckay or Perreault;
4. Ride Hackett until the team can make a trade to help the chemistry up front and change the attitude;
5. Keep working Hainsey into the pp;
6. The new Kilger line will not hurt us. Right now we're getting hurt by lines centered by Perreault and Gilmour. Hurt bad.
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 25, 2002 9:47:29 GMT -5
and what is the point of the Lindsay-Kilger-Petrov line?
to act as a 4th line?
or maybe the Perreault-Gilmour-McKay unit is the 4th line?
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Post by Boston_Habs on Oct 25, 2002 9:54:00 GMT -5
I saw the game last night and I'm amazed at how good Juneau still looks out there. Skates well, always well positioned, smart with the puck... centre is definitely his best position. Hard to keep from playing 17+ min per night.
We only have two good lines right now; the Koivu line and the Juneau line. You're right, JV, the weak lines are the ones with weak centres (i.e. Gilmour and Perreault).
Bold move: if Gilmour doesn't get it going by the 20-25 game mark, I say the Savard should just release him and eat the rest of the contract, if he can't be moved to another team.
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 25, 2002 9:55:30 GMT -5
Bold move: if Gilmour doesn't get it going by the 20-25 game mark, I say the Savard should just release him and eat the rest of the contract, if he can't be moved to another team. I say Gilmour will retire. He is too big of a competitor to let himself suck this much.
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Post by Boston_Habs on Oct 25, 2002 10:00:07 GMT -5
That works too. It took him forever to get going last year, but we can't afford to wait around. We're not getting bailed out by a hot goalie this year, and we need maximum productivity and effort up front.
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 25, 2002 10:02:38 GMT -5
so who replaces him? Ribeiro? Hossa?
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Oct 25, 2002 10:12:22 GMT -5
At center you go Koivu, Juneau, Kilger and Perreault. Perreault takes the crucial faceoffs instead of Kilger or Koivu but otherwise just centers what is essentially a soft fourth line that has to get out there and exploit the other team's fourth line with superior skill.
The fact is that this team was supposed to overwhelm the enemy with wave after wave of pesky forwards with soft hands who could create havoc in the offensive end. The new rules were supposed to help. It's not working out that way. I see the major weakness being the uninspired play at center once you get past Juneau and Koivu. In any event, the point of the Lindsay-Kilger-Petrov line is to play sound defence, with a physical dimension, and to pot the odd goal on the counterpunch. Right now we're at risk every time the Gilmour and Perreault centered lines are on the ice. Not only are they not producing offensively, but they're getting caught on odd-man breaks and sucking in our end of the rink. We can't go on like this.
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Post by Viper on Oct 25, 2002 10:25:19 GMT -5
Zednik/Koivu/Czerkawski (got to get Czerk going) Bulis/Juneau/Dackell (these guys never stop working) Lindsay/Kilger/Petrov (bang and skate) Perreault/Gilmour/Mckay (8 minutes of ice to start) Audette sits. Some comments: 1. Mckay is not creating a lot of space and he's not able to keep up with the pace. Nor can he "protect" Koivu. Koivu has to take his lumps like everyone else. The only problem is that right now the opposition knows that Koivu is (again) being forced to carry the team offensively; 2. Czerk and Audette need Koivu. Try Czerk for four games. If he gets 2 or fewer points in that span I'll eat my hat; 3. Keep playing the Juneau line 16+ minutes a night. Juneau still skates better than Audette, Gilmour, Mckay or Perreault; 4. Ride Hackett until the team can make a trade to help the chemistry up front and change the attitude; 5. Keep working Hainsey into the pp; 6. The new Kilger line will not hurt us. Right now we're getting hurt by lines centered by Perreault and Gilmour. Hurt bad. 1. Obviously good call Czerk was brought here to provide offense and he's toiling with no legit center on the fourht line. To me this is another example of how the coach and GM seem to be on the opposite. Page. 2. ya your right both czerk and audette need Saku. I think a better alternative would be to somehow find another quality Center for either the first or second line but our trading option's are extremely limited unless we give up a prospect or a top line guy. 3. Umm can't argue with that but i would like to see if Czerk works on this line. The knock on Bulis was his attitude physical presence and defensive game and thus far that really can't be questioned he has been much better in all those regard's. I'd like to see if Jan will keep the same work ethic with Saku and Zed because those two guy's are also workhorse's and maybe throwing Czerk on the dacks and JJ line will teach him a little bit. (wishful thinking maybe but worth a try IMO) 4. Nope i say this go back to Theo it makes more sense to show him that the organization has confidence in him. I have a feeling sitting him is reducing his confidence as opposed to improving it. We signed him as A #1 goalie and we need to show him as an organization we believe. This problem existed before hackett's injuries when they played the "We have 2 number one goalies" fiddle and it hampered the progress of Jose and the organization as a whole IMO because now we are stuck with Three goalies and nowhere to send one of them. 5. Absolutely. Do not send him down anymore keep working him into bigger roles and Increasing his confidence. 6. What if Perreault centered kilger and Petrov and Lindsey played with Gilmour and McKay i think that would make more sense.
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Post by PTH on Oct 25, 2002 11:52:07 GMT -5
At center you go Koivu, Juneau, Kilger and Perreault. Perreault takes the crucial faceoffs instead of Kilger or Koivu but otherwise just centers what is essentially a soft fourth line that has to get out there and exploit the other team's fourth line with superior skill. The fact is that this team was supposed to overwhelm the enemy with wave after wave of pesky forwards with soft hands who could create havoc in the offensive end. The new rules were supposed to help. It's not working out that way. I see the major weakness being the uninspired play at center once you get past Juneau and Koivu. In any event, the point of the Lindsay-Kilger-Petrov line is to play sound defence, with a physical dimension, and to pot the odd goal on the counterpunch. Right now we're at risk every time the Gilmour and Perreault centered lines are on the ice. Not only are they not producing offensively, but they're getting caught on odd-man breaks and sucking in our end of the rink. We can't go on like this. I think you're right. Give Koivu the best 2 wingers you can, and play Juneau's line against the opposition's top line, form a 3d line which is a decent hard-working checking unit, and throw whoever is left on a 4th line. AS got us a lot of wingers and a center (Perreault) who need good playmakers, and yet we only have 2 playmakers, one of whom is not performing (Dougie). This team needs a shakeup.
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Post by MPLABBE on Oct 25, 2002 16:04:40 GMT -5
I also agree.
The Zednik-Koivu duo needs to have the best between Chow-Audette-Petrov on their right side
Those 3 are doing nothing so playing one of them with SK and RZ should make one of them wake up
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