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Post by ForgottenRebel on Nov 12, 2003 15:20:24 GMT -5
The Islanders put Wiemer on waivers, i think he would look good in red, what do you think should Gainey grab him?? surely he is better then sundstrom, dackell, audette, he's defensive and big, i could think of some good line combinations with him
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2003 15:22:21 GMT -5
Is he a checking center, or a fourth line guy? Regardless, we're not in serious need of either at the point. I'm sure that if Gainey was interested, he may have already pitched in by now.
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Post by Maritimer on Nov 12, 2003 16:00:01 GMT -5
He's Kilger only meaner...another big mid 90's 1st round dissapointment. I think "bust" is an overused word for these guys that forge NHL careers but don't have the offensive instincts some overweight chain smoking bird dog predicted they would.
I'd take him in a heartbeat, he can play left wing or center is tough as nails and is a standup guy. The reason he is on his way off the Island is because he doesn't get along with Yashin and Peca. Put him on a crash line between Kilger and Ward and you have a recipe for pain.
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Post by Gord on Nov 12, 2003 16:05:19 GMT -5
Considering they risked losing the younger Chad Kilger for nothing in order to reduce his salary, I highly doubt our management team is going to spend $1.8 million dollars a year on a checking line centre. A solid player, to be sure, but taking on contracts of that size for players of that ilk doesn't seem to be Gainey's modus operandi.
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Post by Maritimer on Nov 12, 2003 16:14:58 GMT -5
Chad Kilger Age 27
2000-01 Montreal Canadiens NHL 43 9 16 25 34 -- -- -- -- --
2001-02 Montreal Canadiens NHL 75 8 15 23 27 12 0 1 1 9
2002-03 Montreal Canadiens NHL 60 9 7 16 21 -- -- -- -- --
2003-04 Hamilton Bulldogs* AHL 2 1 0 1 0
2003-04 Montreal Canadiens NHL 4 1 0 1 2
NHL Totals 463 64 76 140 210 23 1 1 2 13
Jason Wiemer Age 27
2000-01 Calgary Flames NHL 65 10 5 15 177 -- -- -- -- --
2001-02 Florida Panthers NHL 70 11 20 31 178 -- -- -- -- --
2002-03 New-York Islanders NHL 81 9 19 28 116 5 0 0 0 23
2003-04 New-York Islanders NHL 13 1 3 4 24
NHL Totals 615 81 99 180 1211 11 1 0 1 51
As you can see their careers have followed pretty much the same path with one exception Wiemer is willing to get his nose dirty and has a reputation of being a tough hombre.
Kilger is a few months younger and yes he did resign for less money but did Gainey really stand a chance to lose him or was it all worked out in the front end?
1.8 mil is a bit of money but I'm sure Juneau makes more.
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Post by HabbaDasher on Nov 12, 2003 16:17:50 GMT -5
I'd grab him and try to dump someone else to make room on the payroll.
He's big and mean and can play center or wing.
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Post by Forum Ghost on Nov 12, 2003 16:19:15 GMT -5
The reason he is on his way off the Island is because he doesn't get along with Yashin and Peca. Actually, it was reported that Milbury feels that he has cheaper and younger players who can do the same job as Wiemer, therefore cutting him loose is simply a business decision. The Islanders have denied that Wiemer is part of a salary dump as the team looks to trim its $43-million payroll. He is scheduled to make $1.6-million this season but the emergence of youngsters Trent Hunter and Sean Bergenheim have made his contract expendable.
"I told (Jason) it's strictly business," GM Mike Milbury tells the New York Daily News. "The guys who are pushing him on the back end for ice time, they make less money."www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=60166&hubName=Where did you hear that Wiemer doesn't get along with Peca and Yashin? I agree with that and posted the exact same suggestion on the Trade Rumours board. I think that Wiemer would be a solid acquisition, but IMO his salary is too much for a player of his ilk. |
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Post by Maritimer on Nov 12, 2003 16:23:28 GMT -5
Geez...It was sourced on hockeys future ;D
Don't shoot the messenger!!
Your source makes more sense....
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Post by Ryan on Nov 12, 2003 16:31:27 GMT -5
I like Wiemer a lot...but I'd like him a whole lot more at $1mil.
Unfortunately with Sundstrom, Dackell, and Juneau around we can't afford anymore third or fourth liners. As it is right now those three are battling Bulis, Kilger, Begin, Langdon, and Ward for ice time.
Had we not picked-up Langdon and Begin I think Wiemer would be great here, but I'm certainly not complaining about having Langdon and Begin, they're been great so far.
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Post by ForgottenRebel on Nov 12, 2003 16:50:24 GMT -5
Whats wrong with picking up wiemer and dishing off sundstrom and dackell for some draft picks or something....... he does the same job..... but gives us more size and toughness and plays two positions
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Post by Kareem on Nov 12, 2003 17:22:06 GMT -5
I think we should definetly grab Weimer. We need toughness and size at center and thats what Wiemer delivers. Unless BG plans on getting Rolston this summer, we wont have a third line center and even our current one isn't very good. Wiemer would be a great fit regardless of the salary, that isn't any of our concern. If the owner feels he can pay it then so be it.
Bulis-Wiemer-Hossa would be pretty darn fine to me. PLaying with two big energy guys would surely help Hossa and as you noticed, I put him on RW to shoot more ;D.
Dackell can always be sent to Hamilton, so roster space isn't even a problem.
All we'd need is to dump Perreault and Audette and slowly bring the kids up.
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 12, 2003 17:33:37 GMT -5
I think we should definetly grab Weimer. We need toughness and size at center and thats what Wiemer delivers. Unless BG plans on getting Rolston this summer, we wont have a third line center and even our current one isn't very good. Wiemer would be a great fit regardless of the salary, that isn't any of our concern. If the owner feels he can pay it then so be it. Bulis-Wiemer-Hossa would be pretty darn fine to me. PLaying with two big energy guys would surely help Hossa and as you noticed, I put him on RW to shoot more ;D. Dackell can always be sent to Hamilton, so roster space isn't even a problem. All we'd need is to dump Perreault and Audette and slowly bring the kids up. Well, its not quite that simple. Even assuming that Wiemer would fit in Montreal (and one has to ask themselves why he is being placed on waivers, if he is such a great guy to have around), simply demoting a player to make room for him isn't all that easy. There is no room in Hamilton at the moment, and we have a bunch of guys playing in the ECHL or sitting on the bench already (Milroy, Larrivee, Thinel, Shasby, Michaud). We demote, say Dackell, and that's one more kid who has to go to the ECHL. Of course, you could try to demote Dackell to the ECHL, but that's bush league, in my opinion, and beneath an organization that is trying to restore pride and class. Reeks of Carolina Hurricanism, and I don't want to look like that. The other option is to buy out a player. Again, for arguments sake we'll say Dackell (and we'll assume its even possible during the season, which I am not so sure). Dackell makes $1.4 million. To buy him out, at 66% of his salary, would cost about $924,000. Add that to Wiemer's $1.6 million, and suddenly its costing you close to $2.5 million, just to get Wiemer onto the roster. Is Wiemer worth $2.5 million? To get Wiemer onto the team, we would have to: * trade a Dackell (unlikely) * demote a Dackell to the AHL, thus costing a prospect a spot * demote a Dackell to the ECHL, destroying whatever class and dignity the CH has left * buyout a Dackell, which would lead to Wiemer costing about $2.5 million dollars. Not so great options, in my opinion. |
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Post by Goldthorpe on Nov 12, 2003 17:39:18 GMT -5
1) All (well, most) of our veterant UFA problems could very well be resolved in six months when their contract will expire.
2) Salvation will come from within.
3) Keep your stick on the ice.
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Post by Kareem on Nov 12, 2003 17:54:20 GMT -5
The problem with the Habs is because theres way too much politics. If a move can be made to better your team, you do it. Does it really surprise you Mike Milbury would put someone on waivers? Its a salary dump, simple as that. Lets not forget he is mentally ill.
There might be some guys on the bench in Hamilton, but its probably because they deserve it. People are saying how much better it is for youngsters to get ice time, so why not send the less deserving player in the ECHL and give the Bulldogs some reinforcements in Dackell? He'd help the dogs a lot, just like Dykhuis is doing right now. Lets not forget about all the guys we have that have contracts ending at the end of the year. We'll have to replace them and our situation at center will not get better. Either we try right now to mold another center because we'll lack one after this year or we get one thats available. We're not doing any of those.
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Post by blaise on Nov 12, 2003 20:54:37 GMT -5
The other option is to buy out a player. Again, for arguments sake we'll say Dackell (and we'll assume its even possible during the season, which I am not so sure). Dackell makes $1.4 million. To buy him out, at 66% of his salary, would cost about $924,000. Add that to Wiemer's $1.6 million, and suddenly its costing you close to $2.5 million, just to get Wiemer onto the roster. Is Wiemer worth $2.5 million? To get Wiemer onto the team, we would have to: * trade a Dackell (unlikely) * demote a Dackell to the AHL, thus costing a prospect a spot * demote a Dackell to the ECHL, destroying whatever class and dignity the CH has left * buyout a Dackell, which would lead to Wiemer costing about $2.5 million dollars. Not so great options, in my opinion. It's actually closer to $2M. Remember, close to 20% of the season has gone by, and the players have received some of their pay. This applies both to Wiemer and Dackell. |
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Post by Marvin on Nov 12, 2003 22:41:24 GMT -5
When Weimer played in Calgary, there were strong rumours that he was not the most liked person in the dressing room.
Marvin
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Post by blny on Nov 13, 2003 7:43:23 GMT -5
We've covered this before, but I do believe it's too late to be buying people out. That move has to be done before the start of the season.
Weimer is a strong presence. No doubt. However, lets concentrate on improving scoring. Weimer doesn't bring goals with his physical play. If he did I'd consider the pick up, but then he wouldn't be on waivers would he.
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Post by BadCompany on Nov 13, 2003 8:59:55 GMT -5
It's actually closer to $2M. Remember, close to 20% of the season has gone by, and the players have received some of their pay. This applies both to Wiemer and Dackell. Well, then it would sort of roughly balance out - take the $2 million, and add whatever we have already paid to Dackell. Regardless, its still a lot of money for a 4th liner. There might be some guys on the bench in Hamilton, but its probably because they deserve it. People are saying how much better it is for youngsters to get ice time, so why not send the less deserving player in the ECHL and give the Bulldogs some reinforcements in Dackell? He'd help the dogs a lot, just like Dykhuis is doing right now. Lets not forget about all the guys we have that have contracts ending at the end of the year. We'll have to replace them and our situation at center will not get better. Either we try right now to mold another center because we'll lack one after this year or we get one thats available. We're not doing any of those. But what if they don't deserve it? Right now, in Hamilton, there is Dykkhuis, Traverse, Gratton, Fichaud, Damphousse and Dagenais. That's a lot of AHL veterans. Do we want to add another? I think 3 of Hamilton's forwards are from Tampa, and if we count Gratton, Dagenais, and Dackell, that would make 6 forwards in Hamilton for whom Montreal has no real future plans for. That leaves only 6 other spots for our prospects, regardless of whether they deserve it or not. We have 2 NHL defensemen, and 1 Tampa defenseman, leaving only 3 spots available for Montreal prospects on the blueline. If we demote a Dackell like player, to make room for a 4th liner like Wiemer, then a full 50% of Hamilton's roster will be made up of non-prospects (6 forwards, 3 defensemen and at least 1 goalie, if not 2). That doesn't sound like a good way to develop players for the future, in my opinion... |
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Post by NWTHabsFan on Nov 13, 2003 11:00:36 GMT -5
If we demote a Dackell like player, to make room for a 4th liner like Wiemer, then a full 50% of Hamilton's roster will be made up of non-prospects (6 forwards, 3 defensemen and at least 1 goalie, if not 2). That doesn't sound like a good way to develop players for the future, in my opinion... Exactly. We added two roster players from the waiver draft into a roster than many a fan thought was already crowded. To add another player off waivers without any reductions, would jam things up even more. Then there is the salary issue. Weimer is making $1.6M, and all of Langdon, Dackell, Kilger and Begin (at the best value for money on the team at $400K) are well below that. I just can't see adding salary if there is no likely opportunity to also be contributing on the scoresheet (the far bigger need IMO on the Habs right now). There are quite a number of contracts coming up at the end of this season, and that is when both the roster spots and salary reductions will put Bob Gainey in an excellent position to look into the market to add to the team via free agency or trades. That doesn't mean Bob won't pull the trigger on a trade down the road, but only if it makes sense financially and in terms of a trade off of player positions. |
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Post by Chopper on Nov 13, 2003 12:59:37 GMT -5
End of discussion, he was picked up by the wild. reported by sportsnet.
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Post by Doc Holliday on Nov 13, 2003 13:34:57 GMT -5
End of discussion, he was picked up by the wild. reported by sportsnet. Good pickup for them |
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Post by ForgottenRebel on Nov 13, 2003 15:26:26 GMT -5
Another chance we missed
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Post by BCHab on Nov 13, 2003 17:33:23 GMT -5
I respectfully disagree. As stated earlier, we have plenty of NHL salaries that we can't get rid off in Traverse, Audette, Dykhuis etc...It would mean adding another salary without adressing the team's major problem which is scoring. Our weakness is not on the third or fourth line. It is a good move for the Wild though. Cheers, |
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Post by ForgottenRebel on Nov 13, 2003 18:58:54 GMT -5
I respectfully disagree. As stated earlier, we have plenty of NHL salaries that we can't get rid off in Traverse, Audette, Dykhuis etc...It would mean adding another salary without adressing the team's major problem which is scoring. Our weakness is not on the third or fourth line. It is a good move for the Wild though. Cheers, Agreed on the salaries, and we do need scoring, but we are still a soft team, would you not rather have wiemer in our lineup rather then adutte, dackell, sundstrom?? i know i sure as hell would, he would have been just another piece to our puzzle, he's solid defensively, he's big, tough, and can chip in the odd goal |
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Post by britten on Nov 14, 2003 7:53:18 GMT -5
But it isn't a cost effective move.
If we get Wiemar, we still won't make the playoffs. This team is a leader and he isn't one. He might be big and strong, but he doesn't fit on this roster.
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