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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 27, 2003 14:07:05 GMT -5
Let's say I wouldn't mind zherdeev/Horton/stall this year either...but this ovechkin kid looks amazing... Koivu-Horton wouldn't look bad down the middle for our 2005-06 cup run eh? ;D
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Post by Montrealer on Jan 27, 2003 14:20:01 GMT -5
Zach Parise, because he's scoring at an excellent clip in the WCHA and apparently mixes it up along the boards/in the slot and plays special teams very well. He might be small, but if he fights for the puck and has excellent offensive ability and hockey sense I want him!
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 27, 2003 14:21:58 GMT -5
Excellent rebuttal. Of course I take issue with some points: ...Obviously, you and I have different opinions on the definition of big. It's kinda pointless listing players that will likely never get a sniff in the NHL, Allan - Chouinard, Ferland, Eneqvist, Lambert and Larivee's chances of ever playing for the Habs are slim. I am in no position to write off Ferland (ripping up the QMJHL this year), Eneqvist (who so impressed Habs brass that they wanted him to attend the main camp: only there was an agreement between the Habs and his Swedish club team re a limited stay [two weeks] in North America), Lambert is a 2002 draftee with tremendous upside, having a solid, if unspectacular season with the Montreal Rocket, and Christian Larrivée who was known for his offensive capability has been successfully focusing on sharpening his defensive game, as per André Savard's instructions, this season. I think at least 2 of the 4 I've mentioned have a decent shot at making the Habs down the road. Time will tell. A rather facile dismissal methinks. Agreed on Ryder. Hossa, Ward, Milroy and Ferland have established no history of letting themselves be pushed around so far in their young hockey careers. I see no reason that they should at any time be sponsoring St-Hubert BBQ on their jerseys. They're all capable of exhibiting enough "grit" that I wouldn't mind them on my side. If they're the BPA at the time, go for 'em. Not me. But I'd still take Zednik over Wickenheiser. Though hanging onto LeClair would not have been a bad thing. Size matters in buffets. And even there, quality is an issue. Give me Richard Zednik over Todd Reirden any day. To me, quality and character matter more. Koivu, Zednik, Gilmour, McKay, Hossa, Lindsay (when he was here) aren't fraidy cats. OK maybe we don't have a genuine WWF type, but so what. Wrong. Never claimed that. Never will. There is only one Benoit Gratton, and yes, I'd be pleased as punch to see him in a Habs jersey. I don't think we *need* such a player. Though it would be nice to have one. They showed considerable "bite" in last year's playoffs, until The Suit met The Hair-Do. That was real enough for me. Working on that is do-able. I hope we're in a position to pick up at least one.
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Post by Lord Stanley on Jan 27, 2003 14:23:51 GMT -5
Zach Parise, because he's scoring at an excellent clip in the WCHA and apparently mixes it up along the boards/in the slot and plays special teams very well. He might be small, but if he fights for the puck and has excellent offensive ability and hockey sense I want him! I have to admit that a Higgins & Parise combo would look good too.. Does parisé speak french..
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Post by Lord Stanley on Jan 27, 2003 14:26:53 GMT -5
Excellent rebuttal. Of course I take issue with some points: Not me. But I'd still take Zednik over Wickenheiser. . Hayley or Doug LOL
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 27, 2003 14:27:02 GMT -5
Isn't Parise a center and something like 6'1'?
Thought I read that somewhere
He sure looked good at the WJC...
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Post by Lord Stanley on Jan 27, 2003 14:29:11 GMT -5
I am pretty sure parisé played LW at the WJC he played with Nyrstrom which was centering the line..
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 27, 2003 14:31:09 GMT -5
I am pretty sure parisé played LW at the WJC he played with Nyrstrom which was centering the line.. yeah but he is maybe a natural center...
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Jan 27, 2003 14:32:43 GMT -5
Isn't Parise a center and something like 6'1'? Parise is 5-10, 175.
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Post by JohnnyVerdun on Jan 27, 2003 14:34:41 GMT -5
Zach Parise Center, 5-10/175, Faribault, Minnesota North Dakota (WCHA) 2002-03 Stats: 22-18-29-47-20 CS Midterm Ranking: 11
Note Led Team USA in scoring at the 2003 World Junior Championship in Halifax (7-4-4-8) … was named WCHA Offensive Player of the Week for October 14th after scoring eight points (five goals, three assists) in his first two collegiate games… notched a hat trick in his first collegiate game … scored the winning goal in the gold medal game for Team USA at the 2002 Under-18 World Championship in Slovakia (8-7-3-10) … played four seasons at Shattuck-St. Mary's Prep School, scoring 73 goals and 174 points as a senior ... was named MVP at the 2001 and the 2002 Mac's AAA Midget Tournament in Calgary, where he established new tournament scoring records with 30 points in seven games (7-14-16-30)
Scouting A gifted, hard-working pivot with tremendous smarts, creativity and puck skills … has a strong, fluid skating stride and an explosive first few steps … always keeps his feet moving, even on the backcheck … a smooth and shifty puckhandler … never gets rattled and can execute equally well in all gears … makes soft, pinpoint passes both forehand and backhand … reads the game exceptionally well, consistently making optimal decisions in all zones … has a keen sense of danger … always seems to be in the thick of the action … has a knack for finding open teammates, and is especially sharp at picking out the unmarked trailer … possesses a hard, accurate shot and a deceptive release … very adept at controlling the puck in traffic and creating space for himself and teammates … works diligently away from the puck and doesn't cheat on his defensive-zone duties … very effective on the forecheck due to his clever puck-pursuit skills and quick hands … a lack of size is only visible deficiency, however, he more than compensates with his grit and desire … battles in high-traffic areas, but will need to bulk up to maximize his pro impact.
Projection Parise has negated the size factor at every previous level and has all the tools to emerge as a feared, top-line NHLer who creates scoring chances on every shift.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 27, 2003 15:42:34 GMT -5
...Projection Parise has negated the size factor at every previous level and has all the tools to emerge as a feared, top-line NHLer who creates scoring chances on every shift. Sounds like the type of player Savard would go after.
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Post by Lord Stanley on Jan 27, 2003 15:44:51 GMT -5
Sounds like the type of player Savard would go after. I would too...wouldn't you?
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 27, 2003 17:45:26 GMT -5
Funny..I thought he was 6'1'..my bad..
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Post by PTH on Jan 27, 2003 19:21:26 GMT -5
Hmm, we need a big forward, right ? Let's go and get another Terry Ryan !
When you draft by need you can miss out on some seriously better players. Getting an NHLer in the first round is no cinch, getting a star in the first round is still a bit of a challenge, trying to go for a specific position and type of player is IMO very foolish.
When you need a Shanahan, a Guerin or a Tkachuk, if you have the assets, you go and get him. While these guys are worth a lot, they are also treaded every now and then, the trick is to have the assets you need when the opportunity arrives.
The only position to look at individually IMO is goaltending, and I think it's time to start to look around. Think of it this way - Roy was drafted in 84, Theo in 94, and Theo is blossoming just as Roy is fading. Now, if we want the next #1 goalie to make it when Theo is fading, we have to draft him in 2004 - ie, a year away. In other words, we don't *need* to draft a goalie, yet, but it's coming soon, and if we can grab a good one, we should.
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Post by Habsolution on Jan 27, 2003 20:08:53 GMT -5
Here's a good article on Zach Parise : www.startribune.com/stories/512/3582641.htmlHe really looks like the Yzerman type of player. Quiet superstar kind of player. Inspiring leader. The article says he is 5'11 - 180pds and that he plays like 6'3. Unless we can make a trade that swaps our 1st with someone else first I doubt we could get him. I saw he was ranked 13th overall. We're likely to be picking 10th-16th. I hope we have a chance at drafting him. The kind of player every teams want. BTW I got a question about the draft. I know there's a kind of lottery but is it only for the last 5 teams... or let's say we finish 8th in the east and 16th overall ... could we draft in 14th position if we are lucky and have a favorable lottery ?
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Post by PTH on Jan 27, 2003 20:14:25 GMT -5
BTW I got a question about the draft. I know there's a kind of lottery but is it only for the last 5 teams... or let's say we finish 8th in the east and 16th overall ... could we draft let's 14th if we are lucky and get picked earlier than our true position ? Essentially, every team out of the playoffs gets a chance to "win" the lottery, and the winner moves up 4 slots. So say we have the 10th overall pick (cause Theo got hit by an asteroid and we tanked the season), then if we win the lottery, we get the 6th pick, and the teams ranked 6-7-8-9 before the lottery all slide down one slot. So drafting at #16 we can't win the lottery since we'd be in the playoffs, and if we were 10th overall, we could draft: -10th, if the lottery only affects higher or lower picks than ours -11th, if one of the teams that draft after us win the lottery and we have to slide down a slot -6th, if we win the lottery outright. Overall, the lottery doesn't change much, though it does mean that a team that's last overall can't be sure that they'll be drafting first. But they still have good odds, something like 60% odds of keeping the best draft position.
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Post by Habsolution on Jan 27, 2003 20:39:57 GMT -5
Thanx for the infos ! If I understand correctly ... If we make the playoffs we pick where we finished ?
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Post by PTH on Jan 27, 2003 21:51:10 GMT -5
Thanx for the infos ! If I understand correctly ... If we make the playoffs we pick where we finished ? Yup - unless you win the division, in which case your pick goes to the end of the 1st round (ie - the 2001 pick used on Perezhogin was the Caps one and they won their division)
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jan 27, 2003 23:55:00 GMT -5
I haven't a clue what the Hab's should draft in 2003. The draftees won't make the team until 2006 and by then we will be completely different.
Who in Hamilton will move up and who will join Chouinard in Salt Lake City?
My guess is success for Balej, Ward, Hossa, Komisarek and Hainsey.
Call me crazy, but I don't think we will have too many big bruising power forwards that score 50+ goals a year.
Speed, size, strength, youth, work ethic, scoring ability and enthusiasm. Pick the best player available. Look for upside potential. Pick "6" and hope one is a real gem. (We don't have a shortage of small, soft journeyman forwards with few scoring skills)
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jan 28, 2003 0:38:52 GMT -5
SIZE MATTERS!
Just checked Tampa Bay's lineup of forwards. They only have one forward under 6'1" and only four who are only 6'1". The rest are bigger, much bigger.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Jan 28, 2003 8:19:38 GMT -5
SIZE MATTERS! Just checked Tampa Bay's lineup of forwards. They only have one forward under 6'1" and only four who are only 6'1". The rest are bigger, much bigger. Yeah, they're pretty big all right...for a non-playoff bound team. They'll fall that much harder.
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 28, 2003 8:51:59 GMT -5
Too bad Khabibulin is having a very mediocre season...
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Post by Montrealer on Jan 28, 2003 11:03:47 GMT -5
SIZE MATTERS! Just checked Tampa Bay's lineup of forwards. They only have one forward under 6'1" and only four who are only 6'1". The rest are bigger, much bigger. I think talent matters more than size. In fact, size would only be in consideration for me as GM if it meant differentiating between two very similar players, ie if I had to choose between Player A and Player B. They both have similar scouting reports, both have similar projections, however one is 5"11 and one is 6"3, well then size puts Player B over the top. But too often, GMs around the league go after the 6"3 one even if the scouting report says that Player A has excellent hockey sense and Player B has average hockey sense, because they believe that can somehow be taught. Believe me, if you want an answer to the craptacular talent we see far too often on the third/fourth lines of a lot of teams, and the reason the past five years have seen a diminuation of the general talent level of the league, don't blame expansion. Blame the mysterious all-important belief in "size" over talent. I've been hoping for the past while for a team to be courageous enough to draft the most talented player, period, with each and every one of their draft picks, and then attempt a few years later to institute a fast, flowing system that would blast through the trap and win a cup. That would do a lot to allieviate a lot of the ills of the league, IMHO. Instead, the Chad Kilgers of the world were getting drafted in the first round based solely on size and "potential". "You can't teach size", we would hear. Well, maybe not, but you sure as hell can't teach scoring to a guy who has trouble doing it consitantly in the juniors either. I know a lot of people blame the ills of the Habs the past few years on their size, however I ask them to explain how they fall in the middle of the league average in both height and weight overall. I also ask them to consider just what kinds of small players we're using - Oleg Petrov has average offensive talent, for example, so he's not on my list of the types of players we should be drafting. At least now it seems to be changing - we see more and more teams realizing they need to take talent over size, and the example of Tampa Bay is interesting in that one of their best players is a guy who had been ignored by the establishment even though he was offensively more gifted than 90% of the guys they draft - a guy who had to fight his way into the NHL and is now flourishing (Martin St. Louis).... Daniel Briere falls into this category as well. Considering how hard it was for these two to make the NHL, how many do you think were passed over in favour of big, hulking guys who make you wince when they shoot in fear they'll hit their teammate in the face instead of the net? How many simply gave up on hockey after junior because they felt there was no future for them and decided to go on to other careers? Too damn many. At least Montreal seems to have learned it's lesson, and now seems to be drafting according to talent more than to size. I'd hate to miss out on a guy like Zach Parise for that reason, that's for sure.
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Post by Lord Stanley on Jan 28, 2003 12:02:20 GMT -5
Mike, this was beautiful...I think I'll give you a hug tomorrow for that...
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Post by Swane on Jan 28, 2003 12:14:23 GMT -5
We only drafted one small player in the first round in the 90's. That player was Saku Koivu. Every one else we drafted was in the power forward/ physical defenseman mold. That small forward has had a bigger impact on this team than the other 9 players combined. I'd rather Savard pick up another Saku in the draft than another Brad Brown or Turner Stevenson.
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Post by Habsolution on Jan 28, 2003 12:27:20 GMT -5
We only drafted one small player in the first round in the 90's. That player was Saku Koivu. Every one else we drafted was in the power forward/ physical defenseman mold. That small forward has had a bigger impact on this team than the other 9 players combined. I'd rather Savard pick up another Saku in the draft than another Brad Brown or Turner Stevenson. I think Savard realizes this as well since he drafted Higgins, Plekanec and Perezhogin + some others.
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Post by Lord Stanley on Jan 28, 2003 13:52:40 GMT -5
I just hope AS won't go for Marc-Andre Pouliot... Only because he is french Canadian I think the guy could do good..but just the fact that he is french and drafted by us would add to much pressure on him just like it did for chouinard..
And according to the central scouting, Parize is 11th in north America..throw in 2-3 (Zherdeev, Michalek...)europeans and a goalie (Fleury) he might be availabe at 14-15..if is rank doesn't change...
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Post by MPLABBE on Jan 28, 2003 17:03:01 GMT -5
Agreed freak.
When you draft kids from here...better make sure they are mentally tough(like Theodore) and they can sustain the pressure...because alot of them can NOT survive the MTL pressure cooker and they become flops.........
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Post by CalgaryHab on Feb 1, 2003 18:04:14 GMT -5
I don't think we have to worry about AS picking a french player first look at his drafts so far Americans .. Komi , Higgins then Perezoghin ...etc he seems to go for skill speed and smarts the way it should be. It is very nice having a GM that we can feel comfortable about his choices.
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Post by MPLABBE on Feb 1, 2003 22:20:44 GMT -5
Skill, Speed, Smarts and attitude....no Lindros like crybabies it looks like..
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