Habs' needs in 2003 draft

[turnbuckle]

The Habs are in dire need of some more prospects with that much sought combination of size and skill. Komisarek is on the horizon, but there are no others of his ilk in the system.

Thankfully, the upcoming draft is full of center and defence prospects with size.

There are 7 or 8 forwards ranked by most at this juncture between the 10th and 30 overall picks for the upcoming draft that are all 6-1 or taller, they're all skilled, and they're all North American: Getzlaf, Stone, Bernier, Pouliot, Fritsche, Stewart, Fehr and Vanek.

From what I've been reading, gleaned from sources, and seen: Staal, Horton, Fleury, Michalek, Zherdev, Coburn, Brown, Parise, Phaneuf and Suter should be among the first dozen players chosen. Nothing's etched in stone, but the first seven are pretty well assured of being top 12 selections, and the last three are early favourites, along with Vanek, and Getzlaf.

Montreal, in all likelihood, will draft somewhere between the 12th and 18th pick in the first two rounds. Three or four of those big forwards listed above should be available for the Habs. I'd love to see them land Getzlaf, but Bernier and others are intriguing prospects. Some will likely become power forwards, some will be average NHLers, some will flop. The trick is to pick one of the rights ones.

If the Habs fancy a big defenceman in the first round: possibilities betweeen the 12th and 18th picks may include a 6-4 defenceman named Stehlik, and a 6-3 Western defenceman named Seabrook. Shawn Belle, a tough Western defenceman, may also be considered, along with a 6-4 American defenceman, Mark Stuart.

There are other players that might be picked in the top 20 selections like Klein, O'Sullivan, Nilsson, Glazachev, Kesler, Mirnov, Ezhov, but none offer the combo of size and skill that the Habs hopefully will be seeking.

So; forwards I hope the Habs will be scouting closely:

Getzlaf
Stone
Bernier
Fehr
Vanek
Stewart
Fritsche
Pouliot

Possible defencemen:

Stehlik
Stuart
Belle
Seabrook

I don't think the Habs will be going after a goalie with the first pick; after Fleury none really jump out anyway.


Thoughts? Early favourites?

[Bones]

Would you know how high or low the following defenceman would rank? He looks like a nice pick.

FILE: Dion Phaneuf

Ht/Wt: 6-2/205
Position: Defense
Shoots: Left
Birthdate: April 10, 1985
Team: Red Deer
Scouting Report: Strong two-way defender who is solid in all facets of the game, if not particularly flashy. Great size and strength. Hits like a Mack truck and punishes opposing forwards who dare to roam near the crease. Is very calm and poised under heavy forechecking pressure. Never rattled and always makes the proper decision in puck distribution. Plays a controlled, mature and intelligent game at both ends of the ice. Has a heavy shot, though he's not the prototypical power play quarterback.

REPORT CARD
Size/Strength A-
Skating B
Shot/Scoring ability B-
Puckhandling B+
Hockey Sense A
Competitiveness A+
Leadership B+
Composure/Poise A+
Defense A

He's young, only be 18 in april, but I haven't heard much of him until I read this on Red Line I believe. Anyway, maybe he'd slip low enough to steal him in the second round?

[MPLABBE]

I agree -- we need a big forward with size and skill. That should be a priority for AS and co.

[habwest]

Yep, we need a big forward. And at least some of you know I've been saying that for a long time.

But IMO Savard should pick the best player from his list that's available when he drafts. Picking from need got us in trouble before. And I'm not so sure anybody realy knows what the situation will be several years down the road.

Hopefully we'll get lucky and the two will coincide.

[TheHabsfan]

HabWest said:

Yep, we need a big forward. And at least some of you know I've been saying that for a long time.

But IMO Savard should pick the best player from his list that's available when he drafts. Picking from need got us in trouble before. And I'm not so sure anybody realy knows what the situation will be several years down the road.

Hopefully we'll get lucky and the two will coincide.

I agree ... AS should go for the best player available. If we happen to have too much depth, if there is such a thing, at a particular position, we can always deal for another player. As long as we have quality players, we have leverage.

cheers,

[Patty Roy]

I posted this on another board, but what are your thoughts on Jeff Carter? I understand he is a big C whose stock is really on the rise...

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Marc said:

I agree -- we need a big forward with size and skill. That should be a priority for AS and co.

At least 6' and 200lbs: Hossa, Chouinard, Ward, Milroy and Ferland.

Plus other young growing guys who are currently at most 20lbs from the 200 mark: Perezhogin (185), Plekanec (198), Ryder (185), Eneqvist (183), Higgins (192), Lambert (180) and Larrivée (185).

And let's not forget the old saying: "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the amount of fight in the dog." Donald? Donald?

[MPLABBE]

We still need that big monster center behind Koivu

[habruti]

My choice would definitively be for one of Carter, Fritsche or Bernier. I think we need a forward that plays with an edge to his game. Other notable forwards I would not mind see in the draft are Vanek and Nistrom!

[JohnnyVerdun]

Best player available. We haven't drafted a big, smooth-skating, skilled, physical centerman in the last 4 years. We can't make up for that by straining to draft one in July. That player won't help until 2006 anyway, so you may as well just draft the best player you can, irrespective of his position. If you have quality prospects you can trade them to get the young player you need. I don't care if our best 4 propsects are all defencemen, or are all 5-11 185 lbs, the only thing that matters is whether they're likely to be everyday NHLers. If they are, they have value.

[MPLABBE]

habruti said:

Nistrom!

Bob's son? he was drafted by Calgary last year....

[Boston_Habs]

BPA. I want the big, skilled pivot as much as anyone, but you can't draft guy to fill your immediate needs (unless yiu have a top 5 pick, maybe) when he won't help you for several years. And we'd look awful stupid drafting the best big man at the expense of players that are rated much higher, and more likely to be regular NHLers.

In the later rounds you can take a flyer on a big guy who may be a bit of a project... Eric Daze was a 4th round pick, I believe.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Marc said:

We still need that big monster center behind Koivu

Unfortunately skilled hockey players with borderline pituitary conditions are not a dime a dozen.

I also fall into the BPA camp come draft time. Assets, whether one develops or exchanges them, are the name of the game. No-one understands that better than Mons. Savard.

It's a known fact that André values skill over size. I have absolutely no problem with that. If we get our hands on some gargantuan genetic anomaly in the normal course of events, fine. But I certainly wouldn't want our scouts and management turning over every rock in search of this specimen at the expense of overlooking normal size guys with tons o' talent.

Quality over quantity. If the twain meet, excellent. If not, no sweat.

[MPLABBE]

hey


BPA available me too..

But we still need that big center...

[turnbuckle]

Sir Bozo wrote:

"At least 6' and 200lbs: Hossa, Chouinard, Ward, Milroy and Ferland.

Plus other young growing guys who are currently at most 20lbs from the 200 mark: Perezhogin (185), Plekanec (198), Ryder (185), Eneqvist (183), Higgins (192), Lambert (180) and Larrivée (185)."

185-pounders, even 195 pounders, can't be considered big in a league where the AVERAGE weight exceeds 200 pounds. Plekanec is 5-10, Higgins is 5-11, Milroy, Ryder and Eneqvist are 6-0 and less than 190 pounds. Obviously, you and I have different opinions on the definition of big. It's kinda pointless listing players that will likely never get a sniff in the NHL, Allan - Chouinard, Ferland, Eneqvist, Lambert and Larivee's chances of ever playing for the Habs are slim.

One other thing that list doesn't have is players with grit. Not one of these supposedly "big" players has a mean streak, except perhaps for Ryder, and he's 6-0 185 pounds. So much for the "amount of the fight in the dog" theory.

Not sure you read my post thoroughtly or not, but these big forwards that I listed for the upcoming draft also have skill, and all are ranked to go high in the draft. Should we ignore BECAUSE they are big?

I almost get the feeling some of you DON'T want the Habs to have ANY large presence on the forward ranks. There's not a successful team in the league that lacks some presence up front.

Mr. Bozo also wrote: "And let's not forget the old saying: "It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the amount of fight in the dog."

And let's also not forget the old saying: "Size matters."

Perhaps now you can list all of the current Hab forwards who, while not being very large, are fighters. Would that be Dackell and Chow? How about Ribs and Petrov? You consider these small players to be fighters...to be scrappy?

I know you think the Habs would be world beaters with 12 Benoit Grattons in the lineup, 12 little guys that stir up Saperlipopette, but then turtle when the gloves come off; I have a different viewpoint.

I think we need some Darren McCarty types - high energy, large guys that hurt you when they hit, and are not averse to dropping the gloves. None of our prospects fits that bill. Not a one. Come to think of it, none of our current forwards fit that bill either. McKay used to, but now he's too slow to catch Mike Ribeiro fer crissakes - not exactly "high energy."

For this team to EVER consider winning 16 games in a Stanley Cup playoff, they will need some big dogs with bite. It's the reality of today's NHL.

This year's draft has several large, skilled forwards that will be going in the top 20 picks. there will be other forwards like O'Sullivan and Kesler that will be similarly ranked - I say we draft the bigger player if two kids are similar in skill, and by all accounts, Fritsche, Getslaf, etc. are every bit as talented as the smaller forwards.

Yes; draft the best player available. It just so happens that this year best player is likely going to bring the added bonus of size; it'll be up to the Habs to pick the right one.

Bones - I listed Phaneuf as one of the favourites to be picked in the top ten. I don't expect him to be available when the Habs pick.


It's fine to say "Keep drafting 5-11 forwards and defencemen and then trade them for the big players we need when the time comes" but how often does that opportunity arise?

Todd Bertuzzi was an exception - but what was he traded for - Trevor Linden; a big player with a similar style. Brendan Shanahan was dealt once; but again, it was for a huge young defenceman that turned out pretty well I'd say. Shanny wasn't about to be dealt for a couple of skilled 5-11 forwards.


I don't see Shane Doan, Darren McCarty, Scott Hartnell, Ryan Smyth, being dealt very often. Power forwards are cherished, not passed around.

We need to develop our own - and this year, with plenty of petential power forwards in the mix; we should get that chance.

[habruti]

Marc said:

Bob's son? he was drafted by Calgary last year....

Your write some how I wrote nytron when I was actually thinking of Nilsson

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Btw, the smallest team in the league won the Stanley Cup last year. The two largest clubs went a combined 1-8 and were out in the first round. You can look it up.

[MPLABBE]

habruti said:

Your write some how I wrote nytron when I was actually thinking of Nilsson

oh yeah another son of a NHLer...

Zach Parise is also available...

[MPLABBE]

mr said:

The two largest clubs went a combined 1-8 and were out in the first round. You can look it up.

Philly was one of those teams and who was the other one?

I don't recall a team getting swept in the first round

[JohnnyVerdun]

Marc said:

oh yeah another son of a NHLer...

Zach Parise is also available...

We'd have to trade up to something like #8 in order to get Parise. A lot can change in the next 6 months, but that's where it's at right now. He's going to go in the top 10.

[turnbuckle]

Allan - did I say we had to be "The Largest Team?" Where was that stated?

You have a convenient way of trying to twist people's points around.

Answer me this - do you honestly feel we have enough size and grit on our forwards lines to win 16 playoff games?


Where are our Drapers, Maltbys and McCartys on the forward lines, the "players with bite" you mentioned in your quote. It's fine to make a quote, but when you can't back it up it's kinda pointless.

Who are our "small dogs with bite?"

Do we have a Shanahan on our team?

I just don't see a balance with our team - every successful NHL team has a balance of grit, sizs and skill.

Andre has the skill; but we are certainly lacking in the size and grit department, important parts of any Cup winning team.

[AH]

We also need to draft a goalie in the first couple of rounds.

- Ok so Theo is here for at least 5 years
- Garon is here now but likely will not be here for more than 1 year or 2 ...
- Michaud may not be a prospect at all since he has royally sucked this year in the Q ...
- Tarasov is not interested in North America (the boss spoke up) and he is already 27 years old ...
- Purruula is a longshot being drafted in the 9th round 2 years ago ...

Thus leaving a glaring hole at that position for 5 years from now, which is about how long it takes a junior age goalie to make an impact at the NHL level (even if it is as a backup).

M.A. Fleury will be long gone by the time the Habs turn comes up in the 1st round. Unless the goalie is blue-chipper like Fleury, I would not want to waste a first rounder in such a good draft year on a non-skater.

So who else is availabe in the 2nd and 3rd rounds ?

[Lord Stanley]

I don't think AS will go for a goalie right now..unless he is the best prospect available..

AS will continue to go for offensive talented guys like they did back in the days in Ottawa...

and then trade some of this talent to get you better elsewhere...the only way to go

Best player available is always the way to go...

For the record, from what I saw from AS the last few years, we should expect him to be an active man again comes draft day. it's a known fact that he tried to get Kovalchuk from ATL, last year he made that trade for czerkawski and traded to get a rank higher to make sure he'd get Higgins, two years ago it was Q and Dacks that were coming our way...always a busy man that AS...I like it ;D

[Habsfunk]

I wouldn't be surprised if Savard drafted a goalie. I know we have Theodore and Garon who are both pretty young but beyond them there isn't much there in the organization. A goalie taken this year probably won't be ready for at least 4 or 5 years so we're talking about the 2006-07 season at the earliest. At this point Theodore will be a UFA (depending on the CBA) and Garon might want to be a started somewhere. Getting another goalie in the system would provide great insurance. A big centre would be nice but thats more of a short term need that would be better filled through a trade or FA signing.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

turnbuckle said:

Allan - did I say we had to be "The Largest Team?" Where was that stated?

You have a convenient way of trying to twist people's points around.

Chill, Grant. If you check the timestamps on my messages, two of them were posted before your's. The one re the samllest team winning the Cup was a general post. If I'm replying to you I'll quote your message.

I never quoted you as saying that we had to have "the largest team".

Answer me this - do you honestly feel we have enough size and grit on our forwards lines to win 16 playoff games?

No.

Who are our "small dogs with bite?"

The ones who chewed out Boston, and were successfully gnawing on Carolina, until...

Do we have a Shanahan on our team?

No.

Andre has the skill; but we are certainly lacking in the size and grit department, important parts of any Cup winning team.

We're a few years away from being Cup contenders. Let's see what the team looks like in three years.

[turnbuckle]

I agree Ah - we do need to draft a goalie, but not necessarily in the top two rounds. Goalies are the toughest to scout at 18 years of age - it's really a crapshoot.

If this draft had a bunch of goalies ranked to go in the first two rounds, then I'd day "Yes, draft a goalie early", but this is not a strong year for goalies. We should be able to get one of the top ranked netminders in the third or fourth round.

Many future NHL goalies are drafted in the third round or lower, like Patty Roy.

Suddenly; with Hackett's trade, Michaud's regression and Tarasov's defection, we are shy on goalies.

We could use another couple of defensive prospects as well. Once Komo and Hainsey make the club, the cupboard is pretty bare.

Shasby appears to be regressing; Linhart hasn't impressed much.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Marc said:

Philly was one of those teams and who was the other one?

I don't recall a team getting swept in the first round

My bad . The other team was Phoenix, and they lost 1-4. So it was 2-8 combined for the Flyers and Coyotes.

[habruti]

JohnnyVerdun said:

Best player available. We haven't drafted a big, smooth-skating, skilled, physical centerman in the last 4 years. We can't make up for that by straining to draft one in July. That player won't help until 2006 anyway, so you may as well just draft the best player you can, irrespective of his position. If you have quality prospects you can trade them to get the young player you need. I don't care if our best 4 propsects are all defencemen, or are all 5-11 185 lbs, the only thing that matters is whether they're likely to be everyday NHLers. If they are, they have value.

This is the typicall approach but the draft this year is very deep and there are skilled fowward all through the second round. I think that AS may look at what is missing if the talent is there when he will pick. What I am saying is that if a big pivot that skates well and plays with an edge is available then we should go for it. If the skilled pivot I am talking about is less talented then ok go for another player but at equal talent I sure hope they would go for a big center.....

[MPLABBE]

FreakZilla said:

For the record, from what I saw from AS the last few years, we should expect him to be an active man again comes draft day. it's a known fact that he tried to get Kovalchuk from ATL, last year he made that trade for czerkawski and traded to get a rank higher to make sure he'd get Higgins, two years ago it was Q and Dacks that were coming our way...always a busy man that AS...I like it ;D

Let's hope he is more active in 2004...when a certain ovechkin will be available ;D

[Lord Stanley]

Marc said:

Let's hope he is more active in 2004...when a certain ovechkin will be available ;D

Let's say I wouldn't mind zherdeev/Horton/stall this year either...but this ovechkin kid looks amazing...