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Post by Habsolution on Apr 15, 2003 16:18:04 GMT -5
MONTRÉAL, le 15 avril 2003 - La baisse de subventions fédérales met en danger une dizaine d'émissions de télévision au Québec. À TVA, des séries comme Les Poupées russes, Emma, Tribu.com et Cauchemar d'amour ne seront plus financées par le Fonds canadien de télévision, de même que la nouvelle version de la télésérie Lance et compte. À Télé-Québec, 4 projets sur 15 ont été acceptés. Radio-Canada affirme revoir ses budgets pour conserver sa programmation intacte alors qu'à TVA et TQS, on cherche des solutions avec les producteurs. Lors du dernier budget fédéral, le gouvernement a diminué de 25 millions $ le budget du Fonds canadien de télévision, qui a dû refuser 64% des demandes de financement.
It's the beginning of something new ...
Charest has no leverage against the fed's. His hands are tied. It may look like the big conspiration thing but the day after the vote the federal is cutting into french programming ... TV shows are another aspect of culture. If by cutting subventions they cancel those shows we get less quality programming, thus less culture and they slowly have us listening to the english programming because quality of those shows is better. The english speaking community of Qc is massively voting for the liberals because they know it is in their advantage to do so. But unlike them the french speaking people of Qc are voting for the liberals and the ADQ. It's sad the french community of Qc is so divided...
I'm not trying to divide Habrus population into french speaking and english speaking people here ... it's a debate and if english people or liberal voter could make me change my mind about the situation or at least make me evolve in my political opinions I'd be glad. It's been 4 years now that I've got the right to vote and I've never been really interested into what was going on in politics but as of late I have renewed my interest with the political scene mainly because of Dumont and his controversal propositions. I'm sure they are some people who voted liberal here and I would like to know why they did it ... for the sake of enlightment.
I think this is a delicate subject and I would like people to handle it delicately and in respect .. I won't think less about any poster in here no matter what are their beliefs into the matter. The debate is on ...
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Post by The New Guy on Apr 15, 2003 19:35:56 GMT -5
Would the fact that they're cutting english program funding as well make you feel a little more secure?
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Post by BadCompany on Apr 16, 2003 7:43:52 GMT -5
I was having this discussion with a friend of mine just yesterday. Let me first couch this by saying that while English is my first language, I do have French blood, a significant amount of French blood, in my family.
I voted Liberal. Unfortunately, I always do. The perception in Quebec, amongst anglophones, is that they really have no choice. Its Liberal party by default, regardless of whether or not we agree with their economic, or social views. English people just do not trust the Parti Quebecois. The sign laws, the restrictions on English in the workplace, the restrictions on schooling, and so on. The former Prime Minister of the party blamed "ethnics" for the lost referendum. My mother, that night, after hearing those comments, took down the Canadian flag in front of her house, out of fear someone was going to chuck a rock through her window. The memories of the FLQ were still in her mind (in order to return from her honeymoon she had to go through a military checkpoint).
Now of course French people are not like that. Some of my best friends are French, I work in French, I have French blood, etc. etc.. But when you hear government members talk and act like that, you are of course less inclined to vote for them, regardless of their political platform. How many Quebecois would vote for Don Cherry? Doesn't matter what his political policies are, you can't separate the plan from the words of the man.
Unfortunately, its the same thing with the English and the PQ. The PQ is viewed as being anti-English, rightly or wrongly. Lucien Bouchard's infamous Theatre St. Denis forum with leading anglophones aside, there has never been any real attempt by the PQ to bridge that ravine. Its not up to the voters to, its up to the government.
So English people have no choice. There was the Equality Party protest vote of a decade ago, but the Equality Party never had any real platform, either for actual government, or to advance the rights of Anglophones in the province. They were just as surprised as anyone to see four of their members elected - I know, one of them was a teacher of mine. But they never did anything, and people got tired of their inaction, and of not having meaningful representation. The Bloc Pot had more votes the other day than the Equality Party.
I also flirted with the ADQ, as did, actually, many other anglophones and ethnics. I have no proof to back this up, but just from driving around the city looking at the campaign posters, I would guess the ADQ had the highest number of ethnics and minorities running of any party. Good for them. But then we are brought back to the "splitting the vote" concept - if the Liberals lose voters, to the ADQ, then the PQ stands to gain, and as mentioned above, the trust isn't there. You will see it mentioned often in English circles (though perhaps not so much this year, people kind of like Charest), that people "held their nose and voted Liberal." English people detested Robert Bourassa, but really felt like they had no choice but to vote for him.
As for the Federal Government imposing their will on Charest, I think you might be in for a little bit of a suprise. Charest is, afterall, first and foremost a Federal politician. He was only pushed into Provincial politics - against his will - because of Jean Chretien's total inability to deal with the last referendum. Charest literally saved the country. But this was never Charest's life goal, and he never, ever, wanted to tumble into the snake-pit that is Quebec politics. He always wanted to be Prime Minister of Canada. He is a Progressive Conservative at heart, and he despises Jean Chretien with a passion. He is not fond of the Federal Liberals in general, and has much closer ties to people like Ralph Kline and Ernie Eves (Ontario Prime Minister) than with Jean Chretien. Charest also knows that cozying up to Ottawa will cost him politically in Quebec in the short term, and long term it will cost him across the country should he decide to spring board back into Federal politics, to fullfill his dream of becoming national leader. He will be pragmatic, and I don't think he will be a federal lap-dog.
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Post by Habsolution on Apr 16, 2003 11:28:42 GMT -5
Would the fact that they're cutting english program funding as well make you feel a little more secure? The problem is that when you cut french programming what's left to take the place ? But if you guys lose some local english programming you can still turn yourselves toward either the rest of Canada english programming or the states. Everything is in english, everywhere. Nearly half the programming has been cut. I'm not feeling more secure at all .. I might as well have my children learn english instead of french as a first language. It is sad that the federal can't recognize they have french speaking people in their midst. Instead the biggest culture is trying to absorb the smallest one. |
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Post by The New Guy on Apr 16, 2003 16:00:10 GMT -5
The problem is that when you cut french programming what's left to take the place ? But if you guys lose some local english programming you can still turn yourselves toward either the rest of Canada english programming or the states. Everything is in english, everywhere. Nearly half the programming has been cut. I'm not feeling more secure at all .. I might as well have my children learn english instead of french as a first language. It is sad that the federal can't recognize they have french speaking people in their midst. Instead the biggest culture is trying to absorb the smallest one. (a)The cuts are, as far as I know, proportional between English and French programming. That means if you can say you can either watch the rest of English Canada programming, I can say you can watch the rest of the french programming. There is very little Canadian programming (if any) that does not recieve some funding from the government, english or french. (b)American programming is as detrimental to Anglo-Canadian culture as English programming is to Franco-Canadian culture if not more-so. Your argument that Franco-Canadian programming somehow deserves greater protection than Anglo-Canadian programming is, at least in my eyes, insulting. On the exterior it looks as though you're saying that your culture is more important than mine (although I assume that it's not your intention to imply that). Yes, I agree, Franco-Canadian culture is going to suffer from these cuts. But so will Anglo-Canadian culture. If you're going to rail about something, rail about the cuts as a whole. |
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Post by PTH on Apr 16, 2003 17:45:12 GMT -5
(a)The cuts are, as far as I know, proportional between English and French programming. Of course, the funding has always been proportionnal too. Which is fine for services like Health and everything, but for TV it isn't quite the same, since the same product can go to as many people as you want. If we're really supposed to be a country with 2 official languages, shouldn't both language TV funding be equal ? CBC has always had far more funding than Radio-Canada.... Well, I don't know what Habsolution thinks, but well, as far as I'm concerned, French-language culture is indeed more important to be kept, in large part because it's so fragile. There can be a bit more of a tug of war between anglo and US culture, it's a 2-way street, and to be blunt, the difference between the two is fairly narrow anyhow. For French language TV though, once you lose a given market, it's gone. Period. Assimilation is a 1-way street in Quebec. |
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Post by The New Guy on Apr 16, 2003 19:53:43 GMT -5
Of course, the funding has always been proportionnal too. Which is fine for services like Health and everything, but for TV it isn't quite the same, since the same product can go to as many people as you want. If we're really supposed to be a country with 2 official languages, shouldn't both language TV funding be equal ? CBC has always had far more funding than Radio-Canada.... I would argue that the "disparity" as you see it might have something to do with there being more Anglo-Canadians than Franco-Canadians. That's not meant to be a low blow or anything. Just a statement of fact. And that fact leads to there being greater demand for English television than French. Well, I don't know what Habsolution thinks, but well, as far as I'm concerned, French-language culture is indeed more important to be kept, in large part because it's so fragile. There can be a bit more of a tug of war between anglo and US culture, it's a 2-way street, and to be blunt, the difference between the two is fairly narrow anyhow. For French language TV though, once you lose a given market, it's gone. Period. Assimilation is a 1-way street in Quebec. I can't use words strong enough in this forum to describe my opinion of what you just said Phil. Honestly, I can't. I wrote a reply to this seconds ago and I essentially blew my top at you. There is no difference between the Anglo-Canadian and American cultures? That's copious quantities of male bovine excriment. The thing is, you've lumped all of "non-francophone" Canada into the same group. And I admit, maybe I'm making the same mistake with the french, and if there are multiple (non-native, since they're another culture group altogether) 'cultures' within french-quebec I apologize. But right now I'm living in an "Anglo-Canadian" culture that is dying because of lack of funding to the CBC. And this culture is every bit as distinct as the Quebec culture, if not moreso. But because Newfoundland is a smaller province, and because we speak the same "language" (though we speak a very distinct dialect) no one gives a hairy rats bottom about us. And so our musicians are learning 'Canadian' or 'Irish' music rather than their own, and our dialect is being "flattened" (MUN has done ample research into the effect of the CBC and cuts to it on our dialects - it is now to the point that our dialect is generic enough that you can not trace it's cultural roots - with the exception of a couple communities). But yeah - the francophone culture is the only one worth saving. The francophone cultures is the only one of the razors edge of life or death. It's the only one worth considering. All of the rest of Canada is just like the US anyways. Excuse me while I go throw up or something. Your narrowmindedness disgusts me. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 16, 2003 21:29:29 GMT -5
I was fortunate enough to have read the first three or four posts in this thread over lunch while at work. It looked to be a pretty good topic and I wanted to respond, but the firewalls in place don't allow for users to log into specific sites. Unfortunately, HabsRus is one of them. MONTRÉAL, le 15 avril 2003 - La baisse de subventions fédérales met en danger une dizaine d'émissions de télévision au Québec. À TVA, des séries comme Les Poupées russes, Emma, Tribu.com et Cauchemar d'amour ne seront plus financées par le Fonds canadien de télévision, de même que la nouvelle version de la télésérie Lance et compte. À Télé-Québec, 4 projets sur 15 ont été acceptés. Radio-Canada affirme revoir ses budgets pour conserver sa programmation intacte alors qu'à TVA et TQS, on cherche des solutions avec les producteurs. Lors du dernier budget fédéral, le gouvernement a diminué de 25 millions $ le budget du Fonds canadien de télévision, qui a dû refuser 64% des demandes de financement. It's the beginning of something new ... Charest has no leverage against the fed's. His hands are tied. It may look like the big conspiration thing but the day after the vote the federal is cutting into french programming ... TV shows are another aspect of culture. If by cutting subventions they cancel those shows we get less quality programming, thus less culture and they slowly have us listening to the english programming because quality of those shows is better. The english speaking community of Qc is massively voting for the liberals because they know it is in their advantage to do so. But unlike them the french speaking people of Qc are voting for the liberals and the ADQ. It's sad the french community of Qc is so divided... I wasn't aware of this slow migration to English television in PQ. I quite agree with you insomuch as, the majority of entertainment media must remain. In my opinion, I think this isn't so much a delicate topic. I think it's an excellent topic because it serves as an education for those outside La Belle Provance. Entertainment has always been an excellent way to project culture and ideology. Slowly injecting English programming may keep the Anglophone populas happier, but the Francophones will definitely feel the loss. If quality of programming was a problem, what would be the problem with bringing in parisian programming? Does this happen already? I found that when I lived in Germany and we received two French channels there. Though European programming is much much more "out of the box" than what we're used to in Canada. Yet, I also found that Quebecois programming is generally much more liberal in content. Much more European in nature, or more liberal than the Canada at least. As for Charest, BC quite accurately pointed out that he is a federalist politician. And I remember when the liberals landed this guy. The first thing that went through my mind was, "... what a coup ..." I could quite clearly see Charest leading the Conservative resergence in future years. I honestly believe he could have been a future PM if it weren't for the crash and burn the Tory's did in the Mulhroony/Campbell fiasco. But the Liberals landed him. And, again, as BC pointed out, it was a brilliant move that saved the country. And make no mistake, he knew why the Liberals approached him and he was more than prepared to accept the responsibility. Chapeau! However, I'm already getting the impression that Charest may not be the federalist puppet so many are believing he's going to be. I think this guy will be tough when it comes to negotiations. I think he's going to do just fine as Premier. And depending how well he really does he may still become heir-apparent to Paul Martin one day. I think that's a realistic scenario. But, he'll have to make on heck of an impact I dare say. How's that for putting your salami on the table? Coming full circle on you, I'm getting the feeling that Charest is going to do what is right for his province as is his responsibility. If anyone can find the happy medium between the two cultures, this guy is up to the challenge. Programming is only one area, albeit a very improtant one. Again, it's an excellent way to convey one's culture and ideologies. If he has the right staff in place, I think Charest will recongnize the warning signs and do what is best for the province. If that means bringing in quality Franco-based programming, heck, he'll probably do just that. Can't say for sure, but that's the way I feel anyway. Cheers. |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 16, 2003 21:37:33 GMT -5
Well, I don't know what Habsolution thinks, but well, as far as I'm concerned, French-language culture is indeed more important to be kept, in large part because it's so fragile. There can be a bit more of a tug of war between anglo and US culture, it's a 2-way street, and to be blunt, the difference between the two is fairly narrow anyhow. For French language TV though, once you lose a given market, it's gone. Period. Assimilation is a 1-way street in Quebec. That's a pretty good way of putting that, PTH. It's not so much that the French language is so fragile, I honestly think that if we lose the language we lose identity as a nation. I can't predict the future, but when Charest removes the language police, it won't be because he wants more Anglophone exposure, it's just something he may feel not necessary. It may be preceived by hardliners as a negative measure, but I honestly feel he'll do the best he can to retain the Francophone culture as part of the Canadian identity. As I was saying, I'm hoping Charest finds a way to retain and/or promote quality Francophone programming. It would be the right thing to do. Cheers. |
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Post by PTH on Apr 16, 2003 22:31:48 GMT -5
Excuse me while I go throw up or something. Your narrowmindedness disgusts me. If that was the easy version, I wonder how bad the other version could have been. I think we're arguing 2 different subjects though. I'm talking about protecting the Quebec culture in general (and yes, there are sub-cultures here, just like anywhere else), you're talking about protecting the Newfie subculture, which IMO is a different issue altogether. For the record, I think subcultures of either language are doomed, there just isn't the funding or at least the political will. And besides, I don't like Newfoundland - most of Labrador really should be part of Quebec. Dammed British who badly wanted to rid themselves of Newfoundland decided to change the borders around so we'd want the Newfies and their goofy accents ;-) (J/K) |
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Post by The New Guy on Apr 17, 2003 0:01:57 GMT -5
If that was the easy version, I wonder how bad the other version could have been. I think we're arguing 2 different subjects though. I'm talking about protecting the Quebec culture in general (and yes, there are sub-cultures here, just like anywhere else), you're talking about protecting the Newfie subculture, which IMO is a different issue altogether. For the record, I think subcultures of either language are doomed, there just isn't the funding or at least the political will. And besides, I don't like Newfoundland - most of Labrador really should be part of Quebec. Dammed British who badly wanted to rid themselves of Newfoundland decided to change the borders around so we'd want the Newfies and their goofy accents ;-) (J/K) I get touchy about such things. You see, I grew up hearing about Quebec's distinct society while watching my hometown die a horribly slow death. A fishplant which is only open for a few weeks a year, and a shipyard that keeps opening and closing, and being sold two or three times now. And I keep thinking that if some of that money that is spent on keeping french society distinct were spent on keeping Newfoundland alive... ...well maybe my parents wouldn't be forced to move to Iqaluit to earn enough to retire one day. To be honest it's nothing about French culture. It's partially our own fault for not making such a fuss about it. Hell, I think it's our fault for buying into the whole confederation thing. It was remarkably short sighted on our behalf. It also bothers me to see my sub-culture degraded. I agree, there should be more funding for french television. There also should be more funding for newfoundland programming, maritime programming, cape breton programming, acadian programming etc. However, by saying that the CBC is getting an unfair amount of funding while I'm watching Newfoundland based programming getting cancelled... I think it's foolish. I think you're looking across the fence and seeing greener grass. Trust me, it's not. I apologize for my visceral reaction. That was even much for me (and no, you don't want to know how the other one went... trust me on that one). Andrew |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Apr 17, 2003 5:14:25 GMT -5
Nice gesture Andrew. Thank you.
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Post by Cranky on Apr 17, 2003 8:47:50 GMT -5
Just a simple question. If Quebec "deserves" more and Newfoundland "deserves" more money what about Native Canadians? Why not all the diverse cultures that make up Canada? Why only those two cultures? Are they more "worthy" then the rest of the cultures? Would ANY argument made not be biased against other cultures? Are the other cultures less "equal"? The separatist would argue that if they had their own country they could control and dictate all the cultural programming. Fine. I have a simple solution for all this. Create a QBC and get a "proportional" portion of the CBC funding. Let the Quebec province pay the balance if they want more. Can you demand to have half the cake when you put in a 6th of it? Isn't arguing that it is two "founding" cultures goes against what democracy is all about? One man, one vote. Or are the foundations of democracy not really applicable here? Why would Quebec "deserve" half of the CBC funding? Is the Quebec voice worth 6 times more then the rest of the Canadian voices? Questions that lead to more questions that lead to more questions............ ~~~~~~~~~~~ A little side story here. A while ago, one of my relatives argued that the government had an obligation to fund religion. So I asked him how that would happen with so many religions. His response was that only the "important" ones should get funding. I let the "logic" of that argument slide right by but instead I asked him if atheism was “anti-religion”. “Yes” he said, fine, then atheist get half the funding. He jumped up, scolded me as how the “devil” possessed my mind. I glared at him, pursed my lips and told him, "I know that". Now my wifes side of the family thinks that I am evil, bah, I never liked them anyway.  Politics and religion, what wars are fought over. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Apr 17, 2003 11:23:05 GMT -5
Politics and religion, what wars are fought over. And oil. |
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Post by The New Guy on Apr 17, 2003 11:36:07 GMT -5
Just a simple question. If Quebec "deserves" more and Newfoundland "deserves" more money what about Native Canadians? Why not all the diverse cultures that make up Canada? Why only those two cultures? Are they more "worthy" then the rest of the cultures? Would ANY argument made not be biased against other cultures? Are the other cultures less "equal"? You'll notice that I mentioned other sub-cultures (maritime, acadian etc) deserving more funding for more local programming. Like I said - the cuts hurt the diversity of Canadian culture as a whole. This includes the native groups. I'm merely saying that while yes, the cuts are going to hurt the french culture in Quebec, the damage is no more so than the damage done to other cultures by the cuts to Anglo-Canadian programming. In essence, yes - you the francophones will hurt. But it's not an "anglo-conspiracy". The government is not trying to turn Quebec into english speaking slaves. The cuts go right across the board and hurt anglo culture. So complain about the cuts as a whole, rather than the cuts to the french culture. At least you have a quasi-protected status. The separatist would argue that if they had their own country they could control and dictate all the cultural programming. Fine. I have a simple solution for all this. Create a QBC and get a "proportional" portion of the CBC funding. Let the Quebec province pay the balance if they want more. Can you demand to have half the cake when you put in a 6th of it? Isn't arguing that it is two "founding" cultures goes against what democracy is all about? One man, one vote. Or are the foundations of democracy not really applicable here? Why would Quebec "deserve" half of the CBC funding? Is the Quebec voice worth 6 times more then the rest of the Canadian voices? A nation is known by how it treats it's minorities. On the whole, I agree that Quebec culture deserves protection. But in this case,majority rule has to hold. The main arguement against this is there is a threshold number of programs below which the funding is insufficient to sustain that aspect of the culture. I tend to agree, however there are many cultures that are slowly dying in Canada. Who are the Quebecois to determine that theirs is somehow more important than mine? I appreciate their plight, but the suggestion that they should take funding from the meager amount that my culture gets so that they can continue to speak french and play fiddle with lots of drones and odd timings is more than a little insulting. Questions that lead to more questions that lead to more questions............ ~~~~~~~~~~~ A little side story here. A while ago, one of my relatives argued that the government had an obligation to fund religion. So I asked him how that would happen with so many religions. His response was that only the "important" ones should get funding. I let the "logic" of that argument slide right by but instead I asked him if atheism was “anti-religion”. “Yes” he said, fine, then atheist get half the funding. He jumped up, scolded me as how the “devil” possessed my mind. I glared at him, pursed my lips and told him, "I know that". Now my wifes side of the family thinks that I am evil, bah, I never liked them anyway. Politics and religion, what wars are fought over. You mean you're not evil? Geeze and here I was all this time.... Seriously though, should the government fund religion? No. And when someone asks you, point to the entire series of religious wars that occured in the 16th century (I think) in England. One royal comes to power and decides he's a member of the Church of England, and goes around killing all Catholics. He dies, and his sister Mary takes power (she's a Catholic) and she goes around killing at Protestants. There needs to be a definitive separation of church and state. There's also a line in the Bible about acknowledging the authority of temporal power and not requiring the temporal power be associated with them church. Later |
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Post by MC Habber on Apr 18, 2003 1:54:15 GMT -5
I am an English Canadian who has lived both in Quebec and Newfoundland. Personally, I used to think that French culture in Quebec wasn't in too much danger. However, with the cuts to cultural funding across the country over the last couple of years, I think that Canadian culture as a whole, including all the 'subcultures' is in a lot of trouble. I get really sad thinking about the economic situation in Newfoundland because it is a really amazing place with amazing people and a distinct culture and I hate to think of people leaving because they can't find work there. I think the federal government should do way more to protect Newfoundland culture, although there should be more funding for culture in general (Newfoundland is not the only place where a culture is in danger of disappearing but it is the most striking to me, and possibly has the culture in the most immediate danger; certainly I think it is more at risk than the Quebec culture at the moment). I do think that a measure of protection for the French language and culture by both the federal and provincial governments is appropriate although I don't think Quebec's strict language laws are necessary anymore. As for Charest, I'm somewhat indifferent. I didn't like many of the PQ's policies and I hated Landry, but I don't really like Charest's policies either. I guess I see it as an improvement having a non-separatist government in Quebec, and I think Charest is a bit less of a bafoon than Landry, but then again the separation issue may get bigger with the PQ able to jump all over Charest's mistakes. I think it's really unfortunate that politics in Quebec always come down to the separation/language issue - it means there are really only 2 parties and I'm sure many of the people who voted for either the PQ or the Liberals did so only based on whether they supported separation, regardless of who's policies they liked better or whether they thought both parties' policies stink. I don't see Charest as a threat to French culture but I can understand why a French person might. I understand why you might think that, especially living in Quebec, and it's probably true that if you watch English Canadian tv you will not see much difference between 80% of it and what you see on American tv, but there is that other 20% which I think is really important, and which reflects some of the diversity and different cultures across the country. For example, there's the East Coast Music awards, CBC had a show several years ago about a taxi company in Newfoundland (I forget what it was called but it didn't last), Canadian movies (an example: Lies My Father Told Me paints a picture of Jewish culture in Montreal in the 1920's), This Hour has 22 Minutes, and other shows. I'd personally like to see a lot more of this kind of thing (instead of CBC showing the Simpsons and a ton of really bad programs), but that would require more funding, not less. |
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Post by Habsolution on Apr 19, 2003 2:07:39 GMT -5
I wish I could have participated in this interesting discussion a bit more but I had computers problems and I had to format. I didn't have the drivers required to get back my internet connection so that's why I wasn't here for a while. Still I want to thank you all ... it's good to get a feel about what other people from Qc and the rest of Canada think about politics and culture.
I'd like to reply to the penguin avatar dude though (The New Guy)
I don't think our culture is more important than any other in Canada but I do believe we need more protection because we speak a different language. My reasoning might be flawed and biased but the impact on cutting funding for french programming is deeper than the one on english programming because a people language is about 99% of its culture. I hope you do not feel insulted by those comments. They are not meant to diminish engish canada's culture by any means. I don't know much about it but there's no doubt in my mind there's a distinct feel to New Foundland culture that differenciate it from Alberta's one. But I believe we're the one that are hurted the most out of it from a culture standpoint only because we speak a different language. For exemple, let's say you listen to an humorist from Alberta you'll see less differences between his humor than we would (even without the language barrier). Most french speaking people that understands english do not laugh at english humor. Don't say it's cuz we don't understand the subtility ... we just laugh at different things. I always thought Just for laugh was really boring compared to the french version Juste pour rire. And you'd probably think the same. What I'm trying to say is that there's a bigger leap from english canadian culture to french one than from yours to any other culture in Canada.
I hope I was clear but obviously I would have liked to write this post in french so my thoughts would have been worded better.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Apr 19, 2003 7:50:06 GMT -5
I hope I was clear but obviously I would have liked to write this post in french so my thoughts would have been worded better. Dans ce cas, pourquoi pas cela ? S'il signifie une grande augmentation de votre clarté d'expression sur la matière (cependant votre commande de l'anglais est impressionnante). Bon nombre d'entre nous peuvent lire le français, et pour ceux qui ne peuvent pas je suis disposé à traduire vos pensées en anglais. Mais pas si vous décidez d'écrire un roman sur le soumis...  BTW, je suis un allophone expatrié de Québec, et je trouve les Canadiens anglais et les Québecois francophone tous les deux pour être "différent".  |
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Post by The New Guy on Apr 19, 2003 13:12:00 GMT -5
I'd like to reply to the penguin avatar dude though (The New Guy) His name is Tux.... (-: I don't think our culture is more important than any other in Canada but I do believe we need more protection because we speak a different language. My reasoning might be flawed and biased but the impact on cutting funding for french programming is deeper than the one on english programming because a people language is about 99% of its culture. I hope you do not feel insulted by those comments. They are not meant to diminish engish canada's culture by any means. I don't know much about it but there's no doubt in my mind there's a distinct feel to New Foundland culture that differenciate it from Alberta's one. But I believe we're the one that are hurted the most out of it from a culture standpoint only because we speak a different language. For exemple, let's say you listen to an humorist from Alberta you'll see less differences between his humor than we would (even without the language barrier). Most french speaking people that understands english do not laugh at english humor. Don't say it's cuz we don't understand the subtility ... we just laugh at different things. I always thought Just for laugh was really boring compared to the french version Juste pour rire. And you'd probably think the same. What I'm trying to say is that there's a bigger leap from english canadian culture to french one than from yours to any other culture in Canada. I hope I was clear but obviously I would have liked to write this post in french so my thoughts would have been worded better. First off, I disagree. The most important thing to any culture is it's people. Not it's language, not it's music. It's been a well established fact that if you want to conquer a people, the best way to do it is to evict them from their homes and distribute them across the rest of your empire. And I think that puts Newfoundland's culture in much more dire straights than francophone culture in Canada ever has been. It's currently estimated that there are more ex-patriot Newfoundlanders in the rest of Canada then there are currently in Newfoundland. But we're not talking about that right now. We're talking about cuts to television programming. Now, you argue that because I speak a dialect of english I can watch and enjoy any english programming provided to me. Fine, I'll give you that. So my question to you is, if you are so concerned about losing your language, why not import French programming from France? I mean you generally get the same effect - same language, different culture, different dialect. I'm sure France puts out lots of French programming that you could use. In the meantime, Canada has the obligation to treat all Canadian sub-cultures equally. After all, how can they justify throwing money hand over fist to one culture which is relitively strong (in comparison to other cultures, like the Inuit in the north) while many of the remainder are dying for lack of funding. Like HA said. One man, one vote. Quebec isn't special. The Quebecois shouldn't consider themselve special simply because they are labelled 'distinct'. They have a wonderful culture. But it is not the only one in danger, nor is it the only one that deserves funding. Later |
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Post by Habsolution on Apr 21, 2003 1:30:10 GMT -5
Dans ce cas, pourquoi pas cela ? S'il signifie une grande augmentation de votre clarté d'expression sur la matière (cependant votre commande de l'anglais est impressionnante). Bon nombre d'entre nous peuvent lire le français, et pour ceux qui ne peuvent pas je suis disposé à traduire vos pensées en anglais. Mais pas si vous décidez d'écrire un roman sur le soumis... BTW, je suis un allophone expatrié de Québec, et je trouve les Canadiens anglais et les Québecois francophone tous les deux pour être "différent". Thank you for your kind offer ! But I think I'm profiting from writing in english. It helps me improve my skills. If I ever feel like I can't clearly express my thoughts and that my vocabulary I'll remember your offer though |
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Post by Habsolution on Apr 21, 2003 1:40:57 GMT -5
His name is Tux.... (-: But we're not talking about that right now. We're talking about cuts to television programming. Now, you argue that because I speak a dialect of english I can watch and enjoy any english programming provided to me. Fine, I'll give you that. So my question to you is, if you are so concerned about losing your language, why not import French programming from France? I mean you generally get the same effect - same language, different culture, different dialect. I'm sure France puts out lots of French programming that you could use. In the meantime, Canada has the obligation to treat all Canadian sub-cultures equally. After all, how can they justify throwing money hand over fist to one culture which is relitively strong (in comparison to other cultures, like the Inuit in the north) while many of the remainder are dying for lack of funding. Like HA said. One man, one vote. Quebec isn't special. The Quebecois shouldn't consider themselve special simply because they are labelled 'distinct'. They have a wonderful culture. But it is not the only one in danger, nor is it the only one that deserves funding. Later Okay Tux. You made sound points and I agree with about everything you said. I was just worried about the situation and rightly so. It opened up my horizon to see we're not the only culture in danger and thank you for that. There's a french saying that goes like this: when you look at yourself you despair when you compare you rejoice. But on the french from France aspect ... French programming from France is nice and it's good to keep links to our ancestors culture but it's so much more different than ours that we just can't use it as a replacement for ours. By analogy nuts are a substitute to meat but can't really replace it if you're not vegetarian. |
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