Rex Murphy on Jean Charest

[Disgruntled70sHab]

I consider myself lucky if I happen to catch Rex Murphy's dialogue on The National. However, if I do miss it, I usually catch up on his opinions on the CBC site. Here's what Mr. Murphy had to say the other night, guys. It's pertaining to Jean Charest and you can either read it, or listen to it if you have Real Player.

www.cbc.ca/national/rex/rex_030416.html

I don't have Real Player, so I read the transcript instead. I thought it was a good read for sure, but it was his conclusion that actually jumped out at me. Habsolution started a thread on French Language TV. I remember posting that I honestly thought Jean Charest may indeed be Prime Minister of this country some day and I guess Mr. Murphy feels the same way.

Regardless if he attains the PMO, I think this guy will do a great job as Premier of Québec nonetheless.

Cheers.

[PTH]

I think Rex is wrong.

Charest simply doesn't communicate well on TV. Very few people are real fans of him - he was seen as an "ok" option for change, and after 2 consecutive mandates, the PQ was on its way out, following the traditionnal "2 mandates then leave" habit in Quebec politics. A close friend of mine voted for him "for lack of a better choice" - essentially, people wanted a change and the ADQ was too new and too far out there to be a serious consideration.

As to saving Canada with his election, the whole national question wasn't a prime issue in all of the debates.

And being prime minister of Quebec isn't like being the Premier of any other province; it's no coincidence that in Quebec the provincial leader is PM and not premier, and I don't think it's just semantics. Ask people in Quebec who their national leader is, and the answer won't be Chrétien. Chrétien, or whoever happens to be in Ottawa, will be an afterthought.

Whatever the constitution might say or not say, Quebec really is a distinct society. Charest jumped ship, and I don't think he'll be able to jump back on.

I see another young, bilingual provincial PM who might have a chance at the PMO though - Bernard Lord.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

PTH said:

I think Rex is wrong.

Charest simply doesn't communicate well on TV. Very few people are real fans of him - he was seen as an "ok" option for change, and after 2 consecutive mandates, the PQ was on its way out, following the traditionnal "2 mandates then leave" habit in Quebec politics. A close friend of mine voted for him "for lack of a better choice" - essentially, people wanted a change and the ADQ was too new and too far out there to be a serious consideration.

I don't know if it was more of a case of "2 mandates then leave" or, "... Lucien Bouchard isn gone. Who else is left?" From an Ontarians point of view, I don't think Bernard Landry ever really had a chance after Bouchard left.

As to saving Canada with his election, the whole national question wasn't a prime issue in all of the debates.

Being a provincial election I can sort of see why it wasn't an agenda.

And being prime minister of Quebec isn't like being the Premier of any other province; it's no coincidence that in Quebec the provincial leader is PM and not premier, and I don't think it's just semantics. Ask people in Quebec who their national leader is, and the answer won't be Chrétien. Chrétien, or whoever happens to be in Ottawa, will be an afterthought.

Is that throughout the province? Odd. I mean, if so, why isn't Quebec a nation already? I'm not trying to start anything contentious, PTH, please remember that as an Ontarian, I only see Quebec politics from the CBC prespective.

Having said that, I sometimes wondered why Bouchard never called any more "snap" referendums after he said he would. I was led to believe that the popular vote didn't guarantee his victory, so he didn't do it.

Whatever the constitution might say or not say, Quebec really is a distinct society. Charest jumped ship, and I don't think he'll be able to jump back on.

I'm not overly educated as to the stipulations of the distinct society Quebec governments have been lobbying. In my opinion though, we would lose an important part of our national heritage if the French culture is allowed to slowly dissapate. From what I understan, the distinct society status would perserve that culture.

However, if this is done, the aboriginal peoples of Canada would also have a claim to the same status and it's benefits. I remember a big stink about that.

I see another young, bilingual provincial PM who might have a chance at the PMO though - Bernard Lord.

I always admired Charest because of what he's accomplished in politics at his age. He and I are the same age; 44. However, Charest became leader of the ferderal PC party in '93. He was 35-years-old when he took over the Torys.

I see what you mean about Bernard Lord. He was born in '65. This makes him 38-years-old. However, he took over as New Brunswick Premier in '99 at the age of 34.

These are incredible human interest/success storys. Completely off-topic though, people can say what they want about Bill Clinton, but being born in '46 he won the Arkansas governorship in 1978. That made him only 28-years-old at the time. He was Attorney General two years before that.

Cheers.

[PTH]

Disgruntled70sHab said:

I don't know if it was more of a case of "2 mandates then leave" or, "... Lucien Bouchard isn gone. Who else is left?" From an Ontarians point of view, I don't think Bernard Landry ever really had a chance after Bouchard left.

It wasn't a case so much of Landry or Bouchard, just a case of the PQ being in power for a very long time, and people wanted a chance. Some decisions were taken that got people disgruntled, even though they were good calls (like municipal fusions)

Being a provincial election I can sort of see why it wasn't an agenda.

Well, in Quebec it can be an issue, and sometimes outsiders think elections are entirely based on that.

Is that throughout the province? Odd. I mean, if so, why isn't Quebec a nation already? I'm not trying to start anything contentious, PTH, please remember that as an Ontarian, I only see Quebec politics from the CBC prespective.

CBC, poor you ;-)
Quebec considers itself a nation; Quebec City is known as the "Capitale Nationale". Becoming a country though is another issue though.

Having said that, I sometimes wondered why Bouchard never called any more "snap" referendums after he said he would. I was led to believe that the popular vote didn't guarantee his victory, so he didn't do it.

Losing another referendum would have killed any talk of sovereignty for quite a while, so you only would have tried if you were sure.

I'm not overly educated as to the stipulations of the distinct society Quebec governments have been lobbying. In my opinion though, we would lose an important part of our national heritage if the French culture is allowed to slowly dissapate. From what I understan, the distinct society status would perserve that culture.

The clause has mostly symbolic value, the idea being to have in the constitution the basic idea that Quebec is different, and sometimes will have different problems and need different solutions. Murder, suicide, youth crime, mariage rates and just about every identifiable socielogical stat bears this out.

However, if this is done, the aboriginal peoples of Canada would also have a claim to the same status and it's benefits. I remember a big stink about that.

In these days of political correctness, every single little group will ask for special treatment as well, but IMO one of the two founding cultures of this country shouldn't have to fight to be respected as being more important, culturally speaking, as Ukraining-descended farmers and the like.

I always admired Charest because of what he's accomplished in politics at his age. He and I are the same age; 44. However, Charest became leader of the ferderal PC party in '93. He was 35-years-old when he took over the Torys.

Well, people all like him in theory, but he just doesn't come across well. In French we'd just say "il ne passe pas", he just doesn't make it, regardless of whether we like his ideas or not.

These are incredible human interest/success storys. Completely off-topic though, people can say what they want about Bill Clinton, but being born in '46 he won the Arkansas governorship in 1978. That made him only 28-years-old at the time. He was Attorney General two years before that.

All these guys must be special in many ways to make it so far in life. The question I always ask is - are the qualifications to make it there the same as those needed to actually do a good job ?

[Disgruntled70sHab]

PTH said:

Quebec considers itself a nation; Quebec City is known as the "Capitale Nationale". Becoming a country though is another issue though.

I remember going to Quebec city twice on highschool trips in the 70's and once again in the early 90's. When we took our walking tours in the 70's I remember the provincial parliament being referred to as, "The National Assembly." I never forgot that. I also remember the very liberal attitudes I was exposed to. Not the federalist attitude mind you, but the way of thinking. The night life was excellent, everyone was well dressed and there was an alleyway where the artists all hung out to sell their wares. The smell of "pot" was everwhere it seemed. Hey, I guess it was the 70s.

When I went back in the 90's it was for professional reasons. I appreciated it more in the later years because I could understand more. I found Quebec City to be without a doubt, the most European of the Canadian cities. Yet, I also found it hard when I didn't try my French. People just refused to talk to me when I spoke English. However, they did appreciate it immensely when I at least tried to speak French. So, I tried.

In these days of political correctness, every single little group will ask for special treatment as well, but IMO one of the two founding cultures of this country shouldn't have to fight to be respected as being more important, culturally speaking, as Ukraining-descended farmers and the like.

I see your point, PTH. I don't think Canada isn't as far advanced in mulitculturalism as say, Switerland, however, I do think we are further ahead than most other countries. But, this multiculturalism concept is exercising political correctness to death. I'm sorry to say, but we tend to bend over and pick up the soap and say, "OK" rather than say no, and debate it out. A tad off-topic, but there has to be a limit.

All these guys must be special in many ways to make it so far in life. The question I always ask is - are the qualifications to make it there the same as those needed to actually do a good job ?

This is interesting too. I mean, Kim Campell was touted as the next federal Tory leader well before anyone else only because the papers focused on her. I honestly believe no one else stood a chance for party leadership because of the exposure she got right off the bat; qualifications be-da*med. And all of this happened, so it seemed, immediately upon Mulhrooy's decision to leave office.

As for Clinton, the bio I read on him cited just how well off his family was from the beginning. He was born William Jefferson Blythe IV and he was afforded the very best education, et al. He had charisma and the cash to make his bones ... and he did.

Coming full circle on you, PTH, I honestly think we have the qualified young bloods in Jean Charest and Bernard Lord to make a significant difference in the future.

Cheers.

[PTH]

Disgruntled70sHab said:

I remember going to Quebec city twice on highschool trips in the 70's and once again in the early 90's. When we took our walking tours in the 70's I remember the provincial parliament being referred to as, "The National Assembly." I never forgot that.

It's also known as the national capital region - just like Ottawa, so when I go from one to the other I'm going from one national capital to another.

When I went back in the 90's it was for professional reasons. I appreciated it more in the later years because I could understand more. I found Quebec City to be without a doubt, the most European of the Canadian cities. Yet, I also found it hard when I didn't try my French. People just refused to talk to me when I spoke English. However, they did appreciate it immensely when I at least tried to speak French. So, I tried.

Well, that's all Quebecers want, is a real effort. People making an effort means that they recognize that there's a basic difference there, and that's all people want.

Still, in most touristy spots, English is spoken. Once you leave the tourist spots and go out into the real world, I don't know how it is, I've never tried. Wouldn't think of trying either - just like I wouldn't try to live in French in Calgary.

Coming full circle on you, PTH, I honestly think we have the qualified young bloods in Jean Charest and Bernard Lord to make a significant difference in the future.

I don't like Charest or Lord in any special way, but this country is dying for some real leadership...

[Disgruntled70sHab]

PTH said:

I don't like Charest or Lord in any special way, but this country is dying for some real leadership...

Way off topic, but some people think Paul Martin is the real deal. Martin said earlier today that the government's focus has been away from the country over the past few years and that he was going to point his government back on to it's proper direction.

I couldn't believe it when I heard it, PTH. I mean, this guy lobbied for Chretien's job back in the early 90's and was caught doing it. He was slapped rightly on th wrist for it, but was later made finance minister. However, to be fair, I don't think we've had a better finance minister in recent memory.

Still, he continued to lobby for the PMO and this time which got him fired.

Granted he will do much better in Quebec than Chretien would, but he was the cause for much of his government's distractions as anyone.

Oh well.

Cheers.