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Post by HabsGR on Jun 12, 2004 17:43:25 GMT -5
I know there is several Greeks here... good start.. tough tournament/brackets... what do you guys think?  |
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Post by franko on Jun 13, 2004 16:18:02 GMT -5
I'm not Greek and I don't really like soccer, but was visiting a Brit Saturday and he ran to the television and put hte game on first thing in the morning saying that the game would be over early; then explained (when Greece almost scored in the first minute) that "this shouldn't be happening, that Greek was pretty useless. Didn't seem like it from the first couple of minutes anyway. Like the Flames upsetting the 'Nucks, the Wings, and the Sharks?
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 13, 2004 18:53:06 GMT -5
I understand that this is one of the biggest upsets in recent years.
I followed soccer when living in Germany from '86 to '91. Many countries take soccer very personally and Germany was no exception. I played on my batallion team overseas and we did the odd game against one of the local villages. The skill level of soccer players there is amazing and usually starts at a very early age.
Since then, I've tried to follow international soccer, but only really get to see the odd English Primiership game. However, internationally speaking, Greece pulled off an upset, but also watch Switzerland this year as well. They are quitely going about putting together a very competative sports program that also includes hockey. Another country to watch might be Denmark. Another small, but very proud, soccer nation. Will they go all the way? No likely, but they will give you a good game nonetheless.
You also can't dismiss the South American countries either. Brazil and Argentina are traditionally very, very strong and they'll be making big noise any time there's an international tournament.
Other countries to watch; Turkey, South Korea, the USA (believe it or not the American soccer program has gone full-swing in just a very short amount of time), France (though they failed to win a game in the last WC), Mexico.
Love this game.
Cheers.
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Post by seventeen on Jun 13, 2004 19:22:09 GMT -5
Dis, did you take in the Canada/Belize game in Kingston today? Cold and wet, so it would not have been comfortable, but Canada won fairly easily, 4-0.
England gave away the game to France today. Leading 1-0, Beckham misses a penalty shot and I thought that was a huge error. Then a mental mistake allowing a free kick from 20 yards in injury time and Zidane scores. Then the English keeper had to take Henry down because of a brutal pass back from Goddard, I think. That was the 5th really bad pass of the game by Goddard and I wondered why he hadn't been subbed off earlier. Sometimes it's not your day and it sure wasn't Goddard's, nor England's. France had more of the play but England was good for a win. They hadn't given France much in the way of scoring chances. Neither keeper had to make any scintillating saves. That's a tough loss for England to come back from.
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Post by Cranky on Jun 13, 2004 21:53:21 GMT -5
Okay, I will have to confess..... I buried an old silver dracma in midfield and will onyu unviel it when Greece wins the tournament. Who said old Greeks can't lean new tricks?  |
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Jun 13, 2004 21:54:36 GMT -5
I didn't see the game, but I wish I had 17. Zidane is a pleasure to watch and he isn't as childish as some of the South American "stars" we've seen over the past few decades. I think he was rated as the top footballer in the world at one point. Not bad considering who his peers are. Beckam misses a penalty kick? I'll bet the entire nation of England stayed indoors for the remainder of the day after that! I guess it happens to the best of them ... Beckham, Baggio, et al. But, it's also consistent for England. They seem to play dynamite soccer up to point and always self-destruct for one reason or another. Maybe they should bring Gascoin back. I think my favourite player of a few years ago might have been Frank Lebeouf (sp). He was a mid-fielder with Chelsea before he returned to France. I also like watching Michael Owen develop as well. Not too many 18-year-olds make to the World Cup, but Owen did not too many years ago. There's also an Irish kid, Robbie Keane, is already an impact player and he's going to get better. Remember him for the future.  As for Canada (who) we should be proud of our ladies program. They've been on the upswing for a few years now. Too bad our men's national program isn't progressing as well. The last time they went to the World Cup, the odds makers were giving 72-1 that Canada wouldn't score a goal. And, the odds makers won, BTW. Cheers. |
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Post by Rimmer on Jun 14, 2004 3:11:00 GMT -5
...Like the Flames upsetting the 'Nucks, the Wings, and the Sharks? probably something like that, if not even a bigger upset. Portugal is (or was) one of the favourites to win the championship and Greece has never won a Euro championship game, though I think they only qualified once before. England gave away the game to France today. Leading 1-0, Beckham misses a penalty shot and I thought that was a huge error. Then a mental mistake allowing a free kick from 20 yards in injury time and Zidane scores. Then the English keeper had to take Henry down because of a brutal pass back from Goddard, I think. That was the 5th really bad pass of the game by Goddard and I wondered why he hadn't been subbed off earlier. Sometimes it's not your day and it sure wasn't Goddard's, nor England's. France had more of the play but England was good for a win. They hadn't given France much in the way of scoring chances. Neither keeper had to make any scintillating saves. That's a tough loss for England to come back from. seventeen, you were probably thinking of Steven Gerrard, the defensive midfielder for England, who did a good job neutralizing Zidane throughout the game but had what you would call a "brain cramp" in the dying moments, which cost England points. IMO, the France deserved to win it. I didn't see the game, but I wish I had 17. Zidane is a pleasure to watch and he isn't as childish as some of the South American "stars" we've seen over the past few decades. I think he was rated as the top footballer in the world at one point. Not bad considering who his peers are. he was the FIFA football player of the year three times. he is clearly the best player I have ever seen, and I've been following football (soccer) closely for more than 20 years. he's intelligence on the pitch is second to none and he also has the ability to come through in the clutch moments (1998 WC final game, 2002 Euroleague final game) they are not as good as they think or as their press wants us to believe. they have a tendency to underestimate their opponents and overhype their own players. Beckham is the best example of that. if not for his trademark free kicks and crosses, he would be no more than an average player. IMO, there's no way he is in the top 50 midfielders in the world today. now they have Wayne Rooney (18), a rising star who plays for Everton in the english Premier league. he had a good game against France and will probably feature for England alongside Owen for a long time. R. |
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Post by mic on Jun 14, 2004 7:50:13 GMT -5
he was the FIFA football player of the year three times. he is clearly the best player I have ever seen, and I've been following football (soccer) closely for more than 20 years. he's intelligence on the pitch is second to none and he also has the ability to come through in the clutch moments (1998 WC final game, 2002 Euroleague final game) I don't like the french team. However, you can only be impressed by such a player. The goal he scored against Leverkusen was incredible as is the number of cups he won. But not only that, he seems to be a very humble man. But it still hope France to lose  That's what I thaught about Beckham during a long time. But since a few years, his overall game has in my opinion improved a lot. Not one of the best player, but he could be a regular player on almost every team. However, I question his leadership. The "silent leader" type is okay as long as you show that you're one of the best. It has not been the case here. Neither in 1998. Isn't he a bit older ? I remember him being 18 when I lived in London, and that was two years ago. But you're right, he's a very promising talent. A very british talent also. The only question mark for is : can he also be effective in an international event. The "oldschool" type of game which is still played by many clubs in the UK seems to have it hard to be successful on an european stage, even more on an international stage. I mean, how can somebody like Henchoz who can't run be a defense leader on a strong Liverpool team ? Exept Manchester (and Liverpool once), no english team has had any kind of success in the Champion's League. Not even Arsenal who plays the most "continental" type of football. Have you seen Croatia-Switzerland ? Depressing, wasn't it ? |
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Post by Rimmer on Jun 14, 2004 8:21:14 GMT -5
That's what I thaught about Beckham during a long time. But since a few years, his overall game has in my opinion improved a lot. Not one of the best player, but he could be a regular player on almost every team. However, I question his leadership. The "silent leader" type is okay as long as you show that you're one of the best. It has not been the case here. Neither in 1998. yes, he did improve. I was also impressed with how he accepted to play for Real out of his natural position. he sacrified himself for that team and I respect that. however, if you read/hear what the english media writes/says about him, you get the impression that he's among the top 5 players in the world. I may have gone too far by saying he's not among the top 50 midfielders in the world, but not by much. I had to check to be sure, but here it is -> DOB: October 24, 1985.: www.football-rumours.com/waynerooney.htmlthe way I see it, they fail on the tactical plan. in the english Premiership, the style of game is pretty open and offensive-minded, but in European competitions, teams play a more cautious game (especially in the elimination stage), wait for an opponent to make a mistake so they could capitalise on it. and a lot more attention is paid to the defensive side of the game. please, don't remind me of that  . it was a sad display, especially on our part. at least you have the excuse of being a man down for 40 minutes. our whole nation is depressed after what was expected to be a sure win (what can I say, we always have high expectations even if there is often absolutely no basis for that). you must understand that football is the no.1 sport in my country and every one of about 4.5 mil. people thinks he/she knows football better than those who play it or coach it. R. |
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Post by mic on Jun 14, 2004 9:12:33 GMT -5
I should have done that by myself, but thanks. That is true, but speed is also an issue in my opinion. Some teams chosing their players like Bob Clarke drafts : if you ain't bigger than 185cm, or if you aren't tacling everything that moves, you don't play. I mean, how can Gary Neville be on the english national squad ? He's a great team player, he would be a "play-off" warrior in hockey. But against quick players like Raul, Trezeguet, Henry, players who don't have more than one asset are in trouble. You have to be able to play two-ways, responsible in defence and somewhat creative in attack (Thuram, Lizarazu). It's not a surprise that Arsenal had a very "european" kind of team and won everything. I think success in Europe will come soon enough. And Manchester United seems to go to the same direction (Sylvestre, Ronaldo, Van Niistelroy,...) I honestly thaught that Croatia would win. They have some promising players, but if the talent is there, there is no way Switzerland can have the same will to win - at least, that's what I thaught. But I was deceived, as I imagined that we could enjoy some quick and physical football. Well, it was physical, but certainly not quick. It is these games which give football a bad reputation. It's sad, because Greece-Portugal (at least what I saw : the first period) seemed really entertaining. Bah, if both Croatia and Switzeland win their remaining games, they will both play in the 1/4 finals. Would be ok for me isn't that called a sport fan ? |
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Post by Rimmer on Jun 14, 2004 9:47:41 GMT -5
That is true, but speed is also an issue in my opinion. Some teams chosing their players like Bob Clarke drafts : if you ain't bigger than 185cm, or if you aren't tacling everything that moves, you don't play. I mean, how can Gary Neville be on the english national squad ? He's a great team player, he would be a "play-off" warrior in hockey. But against quick players like Raul, Trezeguet, Henry, players who don't have more than one asset are in trouble. You have to be able to play two-ways, responsible in defence and somewhat creative in attack (Thuram, Lizarazu). things are changing, slowly but surely. they have a few players that you speak of. John Terry (centre back), Ashley Cole, Wayne Bridge and Glenn Johnson (all full backs) are some that come to my mind at the moment. they are all very young, have skill and speed and should be the cornerstones of the English defense for a long time, along with Campbell, Ferdinand and Woodgate. their style of play is also changing. with players like Scholes, Lampard, Joe Cole, Hargreaves, Dyer etc. in the midfield, they play more of a passing game, and instead of sending long balls to their forwards, they are using through-balls and low crosses more than before (this is evident by their choice of forwards - Owen, Rooney, Vassell - all of them being small and fast). Manchester has been going in that direction since Eric Cantona starred for them in the early '90s and it followed with the coming of Beckham, Scholes, Giggs and especially later with Cole and Yorke into the team. I'm interested to see what will Chelsea do next year. they played the most European-like style of all the english teams and it showed with their success in the Champions league. our problem is that we have a team that is better suited for a counter-attacking game but we were forced to apply pressure on you and it didn't go well. I think we will play better against the French and the English, but I'm not sure if that will be enough to win. I won't argue with that. wouldn't that be a surprise?  yes, but this goes to the extreme. I can't explain it, you would have to live in a football-mad country to understand what I'm trying to say. I think it's the same as in Spain, Italy or Greece, for example. it's a similar temperament. R. |
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Post by mic on Jun 14, 2004 11:31:27 GMT -5
things are changing, slowly but surely. they have a few players that you speak of. John Terry (centre back), Ashley Cole, Wayne Bridge and Glenn Johnson (all full backs) are some that come to my mind at the moment. they are all very young, have skill and speed and should be the cornerstones of the English defense for a long time, along with Campbell, Ferdinand and Woodgate. their style of play is also changing. with players like Scholes, Lampard, Joe Cole, Hargreaves, Dyer etc. in the midfield, they play more of a passing game, and instead of sending long balls to their forwards, they are using through-balls and low crosses more than before (this is evident by their choice of forwards - Owen, Rooney, Vassell - all of them being small and fast). I should have said that my knowledge about english players is not what it used to be I just want to precise that I meant the defence, I have no problems with their midfield, nor their attack. I still remember Tony Adams. And even if Campbell and Ferdinand have skill and speed, I'm still worried about them prefering to play a physical game over an "intelligent" game (it's absolutely not the word I would like to use, but I don't know how to say it differently). Agreed with you. I'm concerned about the team spirit in Chelsea, but it didn't seem to be a problem this year We'll see. By the way, I'm watching Denmark-Italy just now, good game. Denmark is fun to watch. I know what you mean. I watched games in England, in Italy and in Germany. I see what it can look like |
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Post by LoupDogg on Jun 14, 2004 11:39:16 GMT -5
Beckham misses a penalty shot I'd say that Barthez just stole a goal. But then again, am I not half-french? Allez les Bleus! I also liked the Greek display. Not too much individual talent (as oppose to Spain-Russia), but a good team setting. I rooted for the underdogs in the Russia game, but I have to say, I will surely go for Spain in the second round, because they just play beautifully. |
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Post by seventeen on Jun 15, 2004 20:27:26 GMT -5
seventeen, you were probably thinking of Steven Gerrard, the defensive midfielder for England, who did a good job neutralizing Zidane throughout the game but had what you would call a "brain cramp" in the dying moments, which cost England points. IMO, the France deserved to win it. R. You are right, as an English soccer buddy pointed out to me later that evening. And perhaps I was too hard on him. Zidane did not do much at all the whole game, so Gerrard must have been doing something right. But he did make around 5 unforced errors as the tennis people say. Having said that, in the play where Gerrard knocked it back to his keeper, he had a teammate right in front of him, who was facing forward and who should have taken the ball. Anyway, lots of blame to go around on that goal. They were probably still recovering from Heskey's (?) mistake in fouling his French opponent too near the 16 yard box on Zidane's first goal. ......"things are changing, slowly but surely. they have a few players that you speak of. John Terry (centre back), Ashley Cole, Wayne Bridge and Glenn Johnson (all full backs) are some that come to my mind at the moment. they are all very young, have skill and speed and should be the cornerstones of the English defense for a long time, along with Campbell, Ferdinand and Woodgate. their style of play is also changing. with players like Scholes, Lampard, Joe Cole, Hargreaves , Dyer etc. in the midfield, they play more of a passing game, and instead of sending long balls to their forwards, they are using through-balls and low crosses more than before (this is evident by their choice of forwards - Owen, Rooney, Vassell - all of them being small and fast)....... Played against Owen's father, Colin, in a tournament this past Victoria day Weekend in Vernon. He came down with his Calgary team and they beat us 2-1 in one of the A finals. If we'd had our German scoring star we'd probably have won. No finish at all, but the 4th game in 3 days was tough on all we over 45's. Tons of fun, though. |
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Post by Cranky on Jun 15, 2004 22:24:09 GMT -5
Played against Owen's father, Colin, in a tournament this past Victoria day Weekend in Vernon. He came down with his Calgary team and they beat us 2-1 in one of the A finals. If we'd had our German scoring star we'd probably have won. No finish at all, but the 4th game in 3 days was tough on all we over 45's. Tons of fun, though. I'll have you know that real man don't play soccer. Real man don't put on a pair of shorty shorts and run around kicking a little ball until one of them sticks it in a net about the size of a larger house. I will tell you one thing, no sport is a real sport when when there are no helmets or weapons involved.... Pfffft!!! And while I'm at it, what the hell is this? Is he trying to show us his non existent six pack or giving air time to his left nipple? I tell'ya, sometimes it hurts to be Greek! |
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Post by Rimmer on Jun 16, 2004 1:59:54 GMT -5
Played against Owen's father, Colin, in a tournament this past Victoria day Weekend in Vernon. He came down with his Calgary team and they beat us 2-1 in one of the A finals. If we'd had our German scoring star we'd probably have won. No finish at all, but the 4th game in 3 days was tough on all we over 45's. Tons of fun, though. it's nice to hear that you can still play at that age and I'm glad that you are having fun. and I bet that it's even more fun after the game over a glass of beer . R. |
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Post by Cranky on Jun 16, 2004 7:37:53 GMT -5
it's nice to hear that you can still play at that age and I'm glad that you are having fun. and I bet that it's even more fun after the game over a glass of beer . R. He has one of those high tech "sports" walkers........  ...notice the little basket in front......he fills it with condoms and proclaims "just in case".  |
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Post by Rimmer on Jun 16, 2004 7:42:42 GMT -5
 R. |
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Post by seventeen on Jun 16, 2004 23:58:20 GMT -5
He has one of those high tech "sports" walkers........ ...notice the little basket in front......he fills it with condoms and proclaims "just in case". Why are you showing the Chevy model when it's obvious that I have the BMW model? How else can I run.....uhhh, walk circles around those other codgers? By the way, the basket is filled with beer, as Rimmer fully understands. That way whenever I need a pick-me-up, it's handy. |
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Post by franko on Jun 17, 2004 5:55:25 GMT -5
Greece: the Calgary Flames of soccer . . . er, football for you "foreigners".
Portugal: the Ottawa Senators of . . .
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Post by franko on Jun 21, 2004 20:27:03 GMT -5
Condolences, Rimmer. Who do you cheer for now (or is the tournament over for you)?
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Post by Rimmer on Jun 22, 2004 8:01:27 GMT -5
thanks, franco. we didn't play well and didn't deserve to go through to the quarter finals. but I think we should be happy we even made it to the show. so far, the Czechs and the Danes have impressed me the most so I will be cheering for them. and Sweden, too. I hope to see more games like the one between the Czechs and the Dutch. it showed why football (that's soccer for you foreigners ) is the best and the most popular game in the world. and I have a feeling that tonight's game between the Danes and the Swedes will be a good one, too. at least now that my team is going home, I can enjoy football without worrying about the result. R. |
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Post by franko on Jun 25, 2004 7:56:27 GMT -5
Portugal 6, Engand 5: more reason to keep shoot-outs out of the NHL.
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Jun 25, 2004 10:48:01 GMT -5
Who cares about Leafs Habs rivalry.
Let's kick some Belize ass. NOT!
I saw Esubio play against Pele and the Portugese team was very strong. Maybe they need Ribeiro? He is Portugese and plays soccer.
Soccer has some tremendous skill if you know how to watch it and look for subtle plays.
It's too low scoring and boring. Kinda like Bettman hockey.
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Post by LoupDogg on Jun 25, 2004 13:46:04 GMT -5
Who cares about Leafs Habs rivalry. Let's kick some Belize ass. NOT! I saw Esubio play against Pele and the Portugese team was very strong. Maybe they need Ribeiro? He is Portugese and plays soccer. I'm sure you're referring to Montreal's own Antonio Ribeiro. He already plays in a damn fine team. www.montrealimpact.com/players_detail.asp?joueur_id=57 |
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. it was a sad display, especially on our part. at least you have the excuse of being a man down for 40 minutes. our whole nation is depressed after what was expected to be a sure win (what can I say, we always have high expectations even if there is often absolutely no basis for that). you must understand that football is the no.1 sport in my country and every one of about 4.5 mil. people thinks he/she knows football better than those who play it or coach it.
