Goodbye Expo's

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

Good bye and good luck. Don't let the door hit you on the way out. We, the fans, wuz robbed by the strike, but we didn't distinguish ourselves after that.
The way things are it's best that you go. Try not to win any pennants and play a few games in Puerto Rico and Monterrey.
It's not a great day for anyone but the fans in Washington.
Montreal lost a little more than MLB did.
It's not about the 1,500 who trotted out to see them play.
Montreal lost a bit of stature and exposure as a major league city.
It had to happen, but there is no joy in Mudville.

Bring back the Royals and Delormier Downs or Jarry Parc.
We will welcome the next Robinson or Snyder as they pass through.
My favorite memory was Rocky Coloveto's stride when he hit the home runs through the windows in the knitting mills.

[MC Habber]

I'm watching the game right now and I know as many Marlins as I do Expos.

[jkr]

Habs_fan_in_LA said:

Montreal lost a bit of stature and exposure as a major league city.
It had to happen, but there is no joy in Mudville.

I don't think this reflects badly on Montreal. Baseball fans in the city were abused badly by MLB and their ownership & they voted with their feet.

A city does not have to have 3 or 4 sports teams to be considered "major league". This sounds so much like Toronto's endless quest to be considered "world class".

There are a lot more important things in life.

[Doc Holliday]

Back in the Bonfman days, there was regularely over 25000 people in the stadium to see the Carter, Dawson, Valentine, Perez, LeFlore, Cromartie, Speir, etc... It's those days that will be missed, not the recent years. For me the Expos died a long time ago.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Blue Monday sunk the Expos faithful into a depression from which they never recovered.

The 1994-95 MLB strike pronounced the situation incurable.

*

Salut - Dangerous Dan, Coco, le Grand Orange, Jonesville, Wino et al.

[Montrealer]

M. said:

Blue Monday sunk the Expos faithful into a depression from which they never recovered.

Being as I was four years old at the time, I escaped this depression. I truly enjoyed growing up following the Expos rabidly with my Dad (who had not escaped the depression) - I remember division title chases versus the Cards and the Pirates and the Phillies especially.

The 1994-95 MLB strike pronounced the situation incurable.

This one was really hard, but even then it wasn't incurable.

The constant dangling of hope and then rejection and then hope and then rejection and then hope and then rejection - and the fact the city was told the team was moving five years ago - that killed everybody's enthusiasm.

I can only hope MLB will find it's way back here in twenty or thirty years, so I can bring my future children to a game without having to cross the border (or suffer intolerable Toronto sports fans).

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Monday, Sep 27, 2004

Where did it all go wrong for the Montreal Expos?

MONTREAL (CP) - To watch the Montreal Expos fade away, it is hard to imagine they were once the toast of the city and a point of pride for all of Canada.

When they became Canada's first Major League Baseball club in 1969, with Rusty (Le Grand Orange) Staub as their star outfielder, or when a supremely gifted young team fell to the Los Angeles Dodgers in the National League Championship Series in 1981, the Expos were hot.

But memories may be all that is left as baseball negotiates the transfer of the once-thriving franchise to Washington, D.C., for 2005 - likely making this week's three-game series against the Florida Marlins the last big-league ball to be played in Montreal.

- www.mytelus.com/sports/article.do?pageID=sports_home&articleID=1722113&

[MC Habber]

jkr said:

I don't think this reflects badly on Montreal. Baseball fans in the city were abused badly by MLB and their ownership & they voted with their feet.

That's my view, but there are many who blame the Montreal fans for "not supporting" the team. Paul Godrey of the Jays was on TSN yesterday making a fool of himself, IMO, by saying that the fans didn't come to the games at times when there were regularly 25 to 35 thousand, and then going on to say that the Jays' current crowds of 20,000 don't represent a problem.

[jkr]

MC said:

That's my view, but there are many who blame the Montreal fans for "not supporting" the team. Paul Godrey of the Jays was on TSN yesterday making a fool of himself, IMO, by saying that the fans didn't come to the games at times when there were regularly 25 to 35 thousand, and then going on to say that the Jays' current crowds of 20,000 don't represent a problem.

Isn't it interesting that it is the fans that get most of the blame when franchises fail? And it is not just in Montreal. No matter how bad the team is or how poorly they are treated the fans are supposed to support the team. What arrogance.
Sports is increasingly becoming a business, not a pastime and franchises have to treat their consumers (fans) with respect and produce a good product. That has not been the case with the Expos for some time.

Fans have limited dollars to spend for games. The Alouettes, for instance, put a great product on the field and have an organization that actively courts the fan base. Wouldn't you rather spend your hard earned dollars there?

[MC Habber]

jkr said:

Fans have limited dollars to spend for games. The Alouettes, for instance, put a great product on the field and have an organization that actively courts the fan base. Wouldn't you rather spend your hard earned dollars there?

Absolutely. Attending an Alouettes game is more fun than any other sporting event I've been to. The atmosphere is great and makes up easily for the cramped seating and the lack of fancy gadgets that you find at the Phone Booth. It also helps to have the best team in the league. To expect people to put up with the uncertainty and instability that marked the last 10+ years of the Expos' existence is crazy.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

I see a wonderful (OK, maybe that's the wrong word) analogy between the passing of MLB in Montréal and the death rattle of hockey franchises in the Bettman League. Once the novelty wears off, the reality that a championship is not around the corner dawns, attendance drops, salaries are dumped, chapter 11 becomes required and repeated reading...

The Montréal Expos for a time had the best team that never was, instead became a major league farm team for the major leagues in the major leagues.


Thanks for the memories




Thanks for the hemorrhoids

[Montrealer]

M. said:

I see a wonderful (OK, maybe that's the wrong word) analogy between the passing of MLB in Montréal and the death rattle of hockey franchises in the Bettman League. Once the novelty wears off, the reality that a championship is not around the corner dawns, attendance drops, salaries are dumped, chapter 11 becomes required and repeated reading...

The franchises in the "Bettman League", as you put it, that are in non-traditional markets are very much like the Montreal Expos of the 1970s - a new sport that is building a fan base. These franchises have not gone through the misery of the Expos circa 1998-2004, nor have they any reason to at the present time.

2003-2004
1 Montreal 20,555 FIN:13 DIFF: +12
2 Detroit 20,066 FIN:1 DIFF:-1
3 Toronto 19,377 FIN:5 DIFF:+2
4 Philadelphia 19,375 FIN:8 DIFF:+4
5 Vancouver 18,631 FIN:7 DIFF:+2
6 St. Louis 18,560 FIN:14 DIFF:+8
7 Minnesota 18,531 FIN:19 DIFF:+12
8 Dallas 18,355 * FIN:11 DIFF:+3
9 NY Rangers 18,081 FIN:25 DIFF:+16
10 Colorado 18,007 FIN:10 DIFF:0
11 Los Angeles 17,877 * FIN:20 DIFF:+9
12 Tampa Bay 17,820 * FIN:2 DIFF:-10
13 Ottawa 17,759 FIN:6 DIFF:-7
14 Edmonton 17,678 FIN:17 DIFF:+3
15 Columbus 17,369 * FIN:27 DIFF:+12
16 Calgary 16,580 FIN:12 DIFF:-4
17 Florida 15,936 * FIN:24 DIFF:+7
18 San Jose 15,836 * FIN:3 DIFF:-15
19 Phoenix 15,469 * FIN:26 DIFF:+7
20 Buffalo 15,290 FIN:18 DIFF:-2
21 Boston 15,133 FIN:4 DIFF:-17
22 Atlanta 15,121 * FIN:21 DIFF:-1
23 New Jersey 15,060 FIN:9 DIFF:-14
24 Anaheim 14,987 * FIN:22 DIFF:-2
25 Washington 14,720 * FIN:28 DIFF:+3
26 NY Islanders 13,456 FIN:15 DIFF:-11
27 Chicago 13,253 FIN:29 DIFF:+2
28 Nashville 13,157 * FIN:16 DIFF:-12
29 Carolina 12,086 * FIN:23 DIFF:-6
30 Pittsburgh 11,877 FIN:30 DIFF:0

I've asterixed the non-traditional markets. FIN=Final standings (points) league-wide. DIFF=Difference between Final point raking and Attendance rank.

Now, all things being equal, and ignoring all external factors, the best fans will support their team more than the team's on-ice success would suggest - the worst fans will fail to support their team as much as they should. It's NEVER that simple, but let's look at the list of differentials. I keep the asterisks for the non-traditional market teams.

1 NY Rangers +16
2 Montreal +12
3 Minnesota +12
4 Columbus +12 *
5 Los Angeles +9 *
6 St. Louis +8
7 Florida +7 *
8 Phoenix +7 *
9 Philadelphia +4
10 Dallas +3 *
11 Edmonton +3
12 Washington +2 *
13 Toronto +2
14 Vancouver +2
15 Chicago +2
16 Colorado 0
17 Pittsburgh 0
18 Detroit -1
19 Atlanta -1 *
20 Buffalo -2
21 Anaheim -2 *
22 Calgary -4
23 Carolina -6 *
24 Ottawa -7
25 Tampa Bay -10 *
26 NY Islanders -11
27 Nashville -12 *
28 New Jersey -14
29 San Jose -15 *
30 Boston -17

To me, the distribution of the non-traditional markets is not that much different than the distribution of the traditional hockey markets. But anything to put in a "bon-mot"; those are easier than solid, grounded arguments.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Montrealer said:

But anything to put in a "bon-mot"; those are easier than solid, grounded arguments.

Often bon mots speak to the heart of the matter and solid grounded arguments remain, well, solid grounded arguments. That's not to say that both good taste and fibre can't be parts of a healthy diet.

BTW, I co-opted the term "Bettman League" from a Montréal journalist whose name I can't recall who regularly refers to the NHL as le circuit Bettman. Pas seulement un bon mot, mais aussi les mots juste.

[jkr]

M. said:

Thanks for the memories




[]

Jarry Park was the type of intimate park that might have revived interest in Montreal.

I still remember sitting in the bleachers with the corrogated metal floors. When the fans started stamping their feet during an Expos rally it was deafening. If I was lucky enough to get seats by the dugouts it was a real treat. You were so close that you hear the players & see their facial expressions.

P.S. One of my favourite Jarry Park memories was the night I went to a double header and was treated to three games when the FIRST game went 18 innings.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

jkr said:

Jarry Park was the type of intimate park that might have revived interest in Montreal.

I still remember sitting in the bleachers with the corrogated metal floors. When the fans started stamping their feet during an Expos rally it was deafening. If I was lucky enough to get seats by the dugouts it was a real treat. You were so close that you hear the players & see their facial expressions.

P.S. One of my favourite Jarry Park memories was the night I went to a double header and was treated to three games when the FIRST game went 18 innings.

Yeah, I have a lot of fond memories of the Jarry bandbox too. Me and my buddies used to play hookey and make the trek if there was a doubleheader (which were regularly scheduled back then - not merely a coincidental lumping together of two games for unavoidable reasons) on a beautiful day. Also whooped it up in Jonesville (so named after crowd favourite LF Mack Jones)...

[Skilly]

jkr said:

Fans have limited dollars to spend for games. The Alouettes, for instance, put a great product on the field and have an organization that actively courts the fan base. Wouldn't you rather spend your hard earned dollars there?

The Alloettes / Concordes / Alouettes also had their fair share of blaming the fans for lack of support and packing up and saying bye-bye. I shudder to think if a salary cap is not implemented and Montreal starts missing the playoffs like the Rangers if they will stay away from Centre Bell as well.

[MC Habber]

Skilly said:

The Alloettes / Concordes / Alouettes also had their fair share of blaming the fans for lack of support and packing up and saying bye-bye. I shudder to think if a salary cap is not implemented and Montreal starts missing the playoffs like the Rangers if they will stay away from Centre Bell as well.

They were missing the playoffs and attendance was lower as a result. Montreal fans are different than Leafs fans. I think it would take a long time before you'd see Carolina-like numbers in Montreal but I wouldn't expect a team that perpetually sucks to get as much support as one that can compete.