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Post by Toronthab on Mar 29, 2005 21:25:21 GMT -5
My TV died. My library has shaken off its patina of dust. Close to my elbow these days are: Grammatical Man by Jeremy Campbell - an introduction to information theory. A Widow for One Year by John Irving - novel of loss, self-discovery and writing. ABC of Reading by Ezra Pound - "Literature is news that stays news." Who's words are you giving your time to these days? You do the BEST subscripts.
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Post by Toronthab on Mar 29, 2005 22:05:28 GMT -5
The Possessed was the old title, coferred ages ago by Constance Garnett, a translator hired by Random House for its Modern Library editions of the works of Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, and other Russians, but it has been superseded by the more accurate Demons. The distinction is important. The characters are anarchists with a nihilistic tendency. Dostoyevsky meant to depict them as the inspirers of evil rather than idealistic dupes who carried out the evil plans of others. Oh yes, I threw out the Garnett translations after I because acquainted with superior ones. I haven't read The Painted Bird. Interesting that no one including moi recommends Tostoy! Paul Johnson in "Intellectuals" a really fascinatiing book with brilliant short treatments of Rousseau, Marx, Brecht, Hemingway and others, titles his chapter on Tolstoy "God's Elder Brother". Very entertaining but not time well wasted. I loved Crime and Punishment and The Idiot, and have been struggling through Ecco's Platypus points for a couple of years. Trudeau once entitled a major speech ,"Everything that Rises must Converge", a quotation from the works of Teilhard de Chardin. His Phenomenon of Man, and the Divine Milieu" are stunning. Call me a boring and prosaic lowbrow all true I'm afraid, but I loved the recently released The Secret History of the CIA" (Blaise will love that one, and it's a furious read) Of course "The Science before Science" by Rizzi...ground breaking and desperately needed. "The Real Queen of France" a good read of Louis XIV's mistress de titre "Athenais", the most beautiful woman in France with geat wit an fire, and deeply involved with Versailles. Also a fascinating read, the autobiography of Joe Bananas, who once sojourned in a Montreal Jail and a Quebec prison. Bookish carbs. Hardy's "The Beloved" haunting. Turgenyev, chrystal. And Blaise only knocked off FIVE novels last summer! Pshaw!
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Post by MC Habber on Mar 29, 2005 23:11:08 GMT -5
You might enjoy 4 Arguments for the Elimination of Television. This book was brought to my attention by Prof. Tom Kovats while I was studying for my degree in Communication Studies at Concordia University in Montréal in the early '80s. Hmmm, wonder what author Mander would have to say about the Internet? Thanks. I actually read the introduction to that a while back and found it interesting. Perhaps I'll get a copy and read it this summer. I first read Mikhail Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita (as it's known in the West) in a 1967 English translation by Michael Glenny decades before it was published in Russia (fragments were clandestinely circulated in Russia as samizdat, an expression for underground literature). I wasn't happy with that translation. Subsequently, I purchased a far better translation (with excellent notes that explain many of the in-jokes and historical details) by Diana Burgin and Katherine Tiernan O'Connor. This version has been available since 1995 in a paperback edition from Vintage Books Division of Random House. I have also acquired a few of Bulgakov's other writings over the years. I have that exact version (Burgin/O'Connor)! I definitely recommend it. I've heard that Bulgakov's The Black Rose is hysterically funny but I haven't read it myself.
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Post by Tattac on Mar 30, 2005 4:21:15 GMT -5
You know, it's not like I found it boring before reading it. I have read T.S. Eliot. And of course I read A LOT of Russian poets. But for some reason I just can't be carried away with it. I prefer prose. I can't deny though that the day may come when I will find poetry more entertaining. As stange as it may seem, I can see the book right now on my working table. I don't know what it has been doing there for the last year or so. Yes, I read it as some other works of Vonnegut. I don't know many people who discovered Dostoyevsky in 14 or 15. The Crime and Punishment was a must-read (I am not sure if it still is) in Soviet high schools. Most kids hated it passionately. They also hated Fathers and Sons by Turgenev, What to do? by Chernyshevsky, plays of Ostrovsky ans so on, and so forth. I was a weird girl and really liked all this stuff. Now I would recommed those writers to those of you who enjoy Russian classics. For some reason, Pushkin is not too popular abroad. Maybe bad translations are to blame. He was the one who introduced the modern Russian language to the general public. Ah...translation It took me some time to get what it was. I agree that The Demons is the most accurate translation.
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Post by Tattac on Mar 30, 2005 4:35:09 GMT -5
I first read Mikhail Bulgakov's The Master and Margarita (as it's known in the West) You are absolutely right. It is definitely Mergarita not Margaret. My mistake. Ah...translation I can talk for hours about it. It's a real art only a few professionals can master. So many books were ruined by bad translation, and so many books became masterpieces only after they were translated into foreign languages. His biography is also worth reading. Interesting that no one including moi recommends Tostoy! I would recommend Aleksey Tolstoy and maybe Tatiana Tolstaya. I've heard that Bulgakov's The Black Rose is hysterically funny but I haven't read it myself. The Black Rose? Never heard of this. I wonder what the original name is.
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Post by Tattac on Mar 30, 2005 4:37:14 GMT -5
This discussion reminded me of a book Three Stories and One Observation by Patrick Suskind who is mostly well known for Das Parfum. In the Observation he talks about reading books. I would highly recommend it if you enjoy reading but don't make it the highest priority of your life and don't have the goal of remembering everything.
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Post by Cranky on Mar 30, 2005 5:10:11 GMT -5
What the heck? No one reads Penthouse? Sheesh......
I recommend:
1. "How to Build a Champion" By the illustrious Rejean Houle.
2. "One Armed Fighting Techniques" by Gino "The Wise" Odjick.
Other then that, I hear that the Enquirer will have a Recommended Reading list out by next week. Fer'sure I will post it.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Mar 30, 2005 5:59:07 GMT -5
As stange as it may seem, I can see the book right now on my working table. I don't know what it has been doing there for the last year or so. Yes, I read it as some other works of Vonnegut. Strange coincidence. Do you or did you like Vonnegut? I haven't read him in over 20 years. Maybe a revisit is in order. I do know that Cat's cradle, Slaughterhouse 5 and God Bless You, Mr Rosewater were my favorites. I found that from the early 1970s on he had IMO fallen into a rut and could only occasionally almost pull himself out of it. However, I do recall very much enjoying a collection of his essays, Palm Sunday. Richard Brautigan? I guess it truly was seen as a both a crime and a punishment. You are probably right about the translation aspect, especially when it comes to poetry, which is notorious for losing rhythm, cadence, imagery and even meaning in the process. I remember a friend of mine translating a couple of my poems (many years ago) into French from English. She really liked the poems, but began cursing me for not having written them in French in the first place. Well, there you are.
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Post by Tattac on Mar 30, 2005 6:31:51 GMT -5
Strange coincidence. Do you or did you like Vonnegut? I haven't read him in over 20 years. Maybe a revisit is in order. I do know that Cat's cradle, Slaughterhouse 5 and God Bless You, Mr Rosewater were my favorites. I found that from the early 1970s on he had IMO fallen into a rut and could only occasionally almost pull himself out of it. However, I do recall very much enjoying a collection of his essays, Palm Sunday. I did. I think Cat's cradle and God Bless You, Mr Rosewater were my favorite. I also remember that I really wanted to read his essays but didn't find them back then (about 7 years ago). No. What did he wrote? A real punishment. A crime was to like it. Though Fathers and Sons was worse because it was more philosophical. Not only poetry. I even think that mistakes in prose are more glaring. As for Pushkin, he also wrote very good prose. One more Russian writer of the 19th century who is popular in Russia but alsmot not known abroad is Lermontov. You should have written them in both official languages
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Mar 30, 2005 6:47:40 GMT -5
Richard Brautigan is most famous for Trout Fishing in America. He wrote a number of short novels, novellas and short stories, as well as, brace yourself, poetry. Another favorite title of his, for me, is In Watermelon Sugar. A very unique writing style. The elegance and precision of his use of language is brilliant. Highly recommended. IMO he must be read in English, because of all the quirks of translation you have mentioned. As are relations between most fathers and their sons. I must check out both authors. Question: What about plays? Aside from Chekhov that is.
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Post by Tattac on Mar 30, 2005 7:07:12 GMT -5
Richard Brautigan is most famous for Trout Fishing in America. He wrote a number of short novels, novellas and short stories, as well as, brace yourself, poetry. Another favorite title of his, for me, is In Watermelon Sugar. A very unique writing style. The elegance and precision of his use of language is brilliant. Highly recommended. IMO he must be read in English, because of all the quirks of translation you have mentioned. Will I be able to understand this elegance and precision in English? I think I have already mentioned Ostrovsky. He is the most well known play writer in Russia. Aside from Chekhov that is. I would also recommend to read Boris Vasilyev is you are interested in the Great Patriotic War (a part of WWII when the USSR was involved). It is different from all this classic Russian literature that was mentioned here. I also like Vladimir Voynovich, Lev Kassil, Aleksey Tolstoy, Arkady and Boris Strugatsky ( ), Ilf and Petrov, Tefi (sp?), Mikhail Zoschenko...
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Mar 30, 2005 7:18:40 GMT -5
Will I be able to understand this elegance and precision in English? I assume so, seeing as your command of written English is quite impressive. Though I was going to include a caveat in my previous post regarding Brautigan's idiosyncratic style. Also, with him as with authors of any nationality, there is the question of idiomatic expression and cultural context. But that's just an everyday occupational hazard. What the heck. It's a slim volume ( Trout Fishing in America). Let me know your opinion if you do read it. Thank you. Verily, verily, your alphabet runneth over. Thanks again. I am particularly intrigued by the pseudo-Italians ;D
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Post by Tattac on Mar 30, 2005 7:26:40 GMT -5
What the heck. It's a slim volume ( Trout Fishing in America). Let me know your opinion if you do read it. I will. Here is the link that will overwhelm you even more www.sovlit.com/
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Mar 30, 2005 7:34:53 GMT -5
I will check out the link, though I am apprehensive now about what mischief may lie a mouse click away. As I was drinking from my second cup of coffee it occured to me to ask you about what type of non-fiction you prefer and what favourites you may have. But non-fiction not related to your work. I enjoy reading travel literature (Bruce Chatwin, Paul Theroux), probably because I do not travel much. History, any epoch, any culture, is another favourite - and I don't mean fictionalized history à la Hollywood.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Mar 30, 2005 7:49:46 GMT -5
Holy frijole! That is one huge resource. Very useful. Thanks. I'll see if I can return the favour at some point in this thread.
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Post by Tattac on Mar 30, 2005 7:52:01 GMT -5
I will check out the link, though I am apprehensive now about what mischief may lie a mouse click away. Did you know that Soviet propaganda can be entertaining and good written? ;D I prefer history. Now I am trying to read (don't have enough time unfortunatelly) the history of inquisition and crusades by some French author. Some travel guides can be a good read too. The first real non-fiction that I liked was One-storey America by Ilf and Petrov. And for some reason I like to re-read Parkinson's Laws.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Mar 30, 2005 7:59:18 GMT -5
Did you know that Soviet propaganda can be entertaining and good written? ;D Indeed, it's a strange world we live in. Speaking of history, do you read the classics of Greek and Roman times? Did you you read them at school? I will add to this later...must go do laundry now.
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Post by Tattac on Mar 30, 2005 8:29:21 GMT -5
Speaking of history, do you read the classics of Greek and Roman times? Did you you read them at school? I did read them in school but don't ask me about details. I think I have to re-read them. I wish I had time to do everything I want to do
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Post by blaise on Mar 30, 2005 9:42:58 GMT -5
You know, it's not like I found it boring before reading it. I have read T.S. Eliot. And of course I read A LOT of Russian poets. But for some reason I just can't be carried away with it. I prefer prose. I can't deny though that the day may come when I will find poetry more entertaining. As stange as it may seem, I can see the book right now on my working table. I don't know what it has been doing there for the last year or so. Yes, I read it as some other works of Vonnegut. I don't know many people who discovered Dostoyevsky in 14 or 15. The Crime and Punishment was a must-read (I am not sure if it still is) in Soviet high schools. Most kids hated it passionately. They also hated Fathers and Sons by Turgenev, What to do? by Chernyshevsky, plays of Ostrovsky ans so on, and so forth. I was a weird girl and really liked all this stuff. Now I would recommed those writers to those of you who enjoy Russian classics. For some reason, Pushkin is not too popular abroad. Maybe bad translations are to blame. He was the one who introduced the modern Russian language to the general public. Ah...translation It took me some time to get what it was. I agree that The Demons is the most accurate translation. Pushkin is somewhat popular, but indirectly. A number of Russian opera libretti are based on his works (Mussorgsky's Boris Godunov, Tchaikovsky's The Queen of Spades, Rimsky-Korsakov's Mozart and Salieri, Dargomyzhky's The Stone Guest). Mozart and Salieri provided the germ of an idea for the play and movie Amadeus. There's an old Soviet joke about Crime and Punishment. Stalin visits a secondary school and asks, "Who wrote Crime and Punishment?" After an embarrassing silence, one kid speaks up and says, "I didn't write it." This is echoed throughout the class. Angered, Stalin tells his Interior Minister to look into this seeming gap in their education. A few days later, the minister triumphantly reports to Stalin that he got nine kids to confess that they wrote it.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Mar 30, 2005 11:00:24 GMT -5
And for some reason I like to re-read Parkinson's Laws. Well, as the saying goes, "Truth is stranger than fiction." Anyway, I've collected links to sources of information about some of the authors I have mentioned in this thread, both in general and in the context of our dialogues. I hope that you (and those who have the HabsRus decoder ring) find them informative, or at the very least, entertaining. Richard BrautiganKurt VonnegutJack KerouacJames Joyce
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Mar 30, 2005 11:46:16 GMT -5
Did you know that Soviet propaganda can be entertaining and good written? ;D Yeah, this one's pretty damn good. * THE DEATH OF DOLGUSHOV by Isaac Babel(1924) The curtains of battle were moving toward the city. At noon, Korochaev, in a black cloak, the disgraced commander of the fourth division, fighting alone and seeking out death, flew past us. On the run he shouted to me: "Our communications links are broken! Radziwillow and Brody are in flames!" And he galloped off, fluttering, all black, with eyes like coal. On the plain, flat as a board, the brigades were repositioning themselves. The sun was rolling along in the crimson dust. The wounded, in ditches, were snacking. Nurses were lying on the grass and singing quietly. Afonka's scouts were roaming the field, searching out the dead and uniforms. Afonka passed by within two feet of me. Without turning his head he said: "They smacked us right in the face. Ain't no doubt about it. They're thinking of changing the divisional commander. The soldiers don't trust him." The Poles came up to the forest three versts from us and set up their machine guns nearby. Bullets whine and scream. Their lament grows unendurably. Bullets wound the earth and dig into it, trembling with impatience. Vytyagaichenko, commander of the regiment, snoring in the sunshine, cried out in his sleep and woke up. He got on his horse and rode off to the lead squadron. His face was crumpled, in red streaks after his uncomfortable sleep, and his pockets were full of plums. read rest of story
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Post by blaise on Mar 30, 2005 13:18:29 GMT -5
The incident reminds me of Mikhail Sholokhov's novel Quiet Flows the Don, although the action described there was the civil war between the Reds and Whites in Russia. Sholokhov got in trouble because his depiction of some of the Whites was deemed a bit too sympathetic on the human level.
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Post by jkr on Mar 30, 2005 15:50:33 GMT -5
[/color] by Romeo Dallaire[/quote] I read this as well - under a deadline because it was due back at the library in 3 days. I cannot fathom the depths of Dallaire's frustration as he watched the genocide happening. I prefer non-fiction - usually biographies and history. My project last summer was the FDR biography by Conrad Black. I enjoy the kind of detail Black put into this book but between work and other obligations this was a slow read. It took me about six weeks. If you enjoy conspiracy theory you may like The Trial of Henry Kissinger by Christopher Hitchens. I found it interesting but have my doubts about some of Hitchens' conclusions.
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Post by Tattac on Mar 31, 2005 3:00:40 GMT -5
Pushkin is somewhat popular, but indirectly. A number of Russian opera libretti are based on his works (Mussorgsky's Boris Godunov, Tchaikovsky's The Queen of Spades, Rimsky-Korsakov's Mozart and Salieri, Dargomyzhky's The Stone Guest). Mozart and Salieri provided the germ of an idea for the play and movie Amadeus. Aren't these composers Russian? There is an English movie Onegin starring by Ralph Finnes (sp?) and Liv Tyler. The movie is not bad though it doens't give enough credit to the poem. Besides the choice of some music is absurd; they used famous songs, which every Russian knows, from 20th century in a movie about the beginning of the 19th century. It reminded me of Nabokov. He translated Pushkin's Eugeny Onegin and wrote his comments about the poem for his American students. There are lots of jokes on this exact topic. The most well known one is about Stalin and his pipe. He lost it, called Beriya (his Interior Minister), asked to find it. Then later he calls back, "Forget it. I have found it myself." Beriya replies, "Pity. I've already got several confessions from people who stole it."
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Post by Disgruntled70sHab on Mar 31, 2005 8:09:14 GMT -5
Ah, I was going to say in my previous post that Name of the Rose is one of the most enjoyable books I've ever read. I like the film adaptation very much as well - Sean Connery was, to my mind, perfectly cast as William of Baskerville (which leads me to ask - are you a Sherlock Holmes fan?). Laughter kills fear, and without fear there can be no faith, because without fear of the Devil there is no more need of God. The venerable Jorge. This quote was the driving force for the entire movie. This is easily one of my all-time fave movies, Mr.B. Movies that are different catch my attention immediatel, and this film had an original storyline and was well casted. No doubt the book must have been excellent. However, the movie brings to mind a similar situation. There's one real-life library that is not open to the public (the last I heard) and that's the Vatican Library. One has to ask why not? Cheers.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Mar 31, 2005 9:05:46 GMT -5
Laughter kills fear, and without fear there can be no faith, because without fear of the Devil there is no more need of God. The venerable Jorge. This quote was the driving force for the entire movie. This is easily one of my all-time fave movies, Mr.B. Movies that are different catch my attention immediatel, and this film had an original storyline and was well casted. No doubt the book must have been excellent. However, the movie brings to mind a similar situation. There's one real-life library that is not open to the public (the last I heard) and that's the Vatican Library. One has to ask why not? Cheers. If you're looking for a good read on many levels, Name of the Rose fits the bill. Equally absorbing whether read in the livingroom in an armchair, or out on the veranda in a rocker. Gave me an idea Dis; here's a question for everyone: What is your favourite film adaptation of a book that you have read? Your least favourite film adaptation of a book that you have read?
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Post by blaise on Mar 31, 2005 14:42:26 GMT -5
I read this as well - under a deadline because it was due back at the library in 3 days. I cannot fathom the depths of Dallaire's frustration as he watched the genocide happening. I prefer non-fiction - usually biographies and history. My project last summer was the FDR biography by Conrad Black. I enjoy the kind of detail Black put into this book but between work and other obligations this was a slow read. It took me about six weeks. If you enjoy conspiracy theory you may like The Trial of Henry Kissinger by Christopher Hitchens. I found it interesting but have my doubts about some of Hitchens' conclusions. Hitchens can be a brilliant writer but he lacks objectivity. He is a polemicist pushing his causes.
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Post by blaise on Mar 31, 2005 15:09:54 GMT -5
Aren't these composers Russian? There is an English movie Onegin starring by Ralph Finnes (sp?) and Liv Tyler. The movie is not bad though it doens't give enough credit to the poem. Besides the choice of some music is absurd; they used famous songs, which every Russian knows, from 20th century in a movie about the beginning of the 19th century. Boris Godunov is performed very often in the West (I have seen it many times. I have also seen Khovanschchina several times, although the text is by Mussorgsky rather than Pushkin). The Tchaikovsky operas The Queen of Spades and Eugene Onegin are performed fairly often. The other two I mentioned are rarities. I visited the Nevskygorod monastery last summer and saw Pushkin's grave. As I'm sure you know, Dostoyevsky, Tchaikovsky, Rimsky-Korsakov, and other luminaries are buried in the same section of the cemetry.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Mar 31, 2005 17:04:38 GMT -5
Nice to see somebody else here who likes (I suppose you like) russian literature. My first Pléiades book was Dostoievski's Les Démons, which I bought in a small bookshop in Avignon. Gogol, Dostoievski, Tolstoï, Gorki... My grilfriend just bought 20 illustrated hardback books from major russian writers for 20CHF (which is more or less equivalent to 20 canadian $. Loving books, I must admit being a bit jaleous . Unlike Blaise, I still have time to read classics. I'm currently reading Stendahl's Le rouge et le noir, which is confirming the good impression I had after reading La Chartreuse de Parme. Well, if you love Italy, you probably have to like Stendahl. Hmmm, maybe I will take the plunge and essai Rabelais' Gargantua et Pantagruel, en français. It will be a good exercise for me, and a work to some degree befitting my persona on this board.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Mar 31, 2005 17:26:13 GMT -5
The Possessed was the old title, coferred ages ago by Constance Garnett, a translator hired by Random House for its Modern Library editions of the works of Dostoyevsky, Tolstoy, and other Russians, but it has been superseded by the more accurate Demons. The distinction is important. The characters are anarchists with a nihilistic tendency. Dostoyevsky meant to depict them as the inspirers of evil rather than idealistic dupes who carried out the evil plans of others. Oh yes, I threw out the Garnett translations after I because acquainted with superior ones. I haven't read The Painted Bird. Thanks for the tip. Looking at my shelves I notice that I have the Magarshack translations of both The Idiot and The Devils. The Painted Bird is a potent recounting of the Hell of WWII through the eyes of a solitary young Polish Jew fending for himself (the Russian film "Come and See" also deals with WWII as seen through the eyes of a child and is equally poignant and frank). Kosinski of course also wrote Being There, which was IMO brilliantly adapted for the screen. Ironically both his life and his writing have been called into question. You can read a bit more about that here. His suicide note read - "I am going to put myself to sleep now for a bit longer than usual. Call the time Eternity."
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