Reading list

[Disgruntled70sHab]

franko said:

Tom Harpur's theme is that there is no historical Jesus. Difficult to be a Christian and reject the "founder".

I again recommend Son of God to Superstar : Twentieth-Century Interpretation of Jesus by John H. Hayes -- an oldie but a goodie gives many answers to the "who is Jesus" question.

American Jesus is an interesting book. The review is pretty accurate.

Thanks Franco. I've also read that he basis his theory on ancient Egyptian myths as well.

Cheers.

[franko]

Disgruntled70sHab said:

Thanks Franco. I've also read that he basis his theory on ancient Egyptian myths as well.

Cheers.

It is based on discredited 19th century research. I'll try to find links to the authors of the research and to the discrediting article as well.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

M. said:

Gave me an idea Dis; here's a question for everyone:

What is your favourite film adaptation of a book that you have read?

I had to think about this and only one came to mind. It's an old BBC series called, "I Claudius" and it's based on the Roman emporer by the same name. I'm sure you know the storyline so I won't go further into it.

I read the book back in the late-80's and it remains in my library today. The series was brilliantly casted with Sir Derek Jacoby as Claudius and follows the Emporer's personal memoires very well.

Cheers.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Elaine Pagels' works might also be of interest. I read The Gnostic Gospels many years ago and still remember it as having had an altogether positive effect on my self. Her other titles include - Beyond Belief : The Secret Gospel of Thomas, The Origin of Satan, Adam, Eve, and the Serpent, and The Gnostic Paul: Gnostic Exegesis of the Pauline Letters.

*

Born in California on February 13, 1943, as Elaine Hiesey, married to Heinz Pagels, theoretical physicist, 1969. Elaine Pagels graduated from Stanford University (B.A. 1964, M.A. 1965) and, after briefly studying dance at Martha Graham's studio, began studying for her Ph.D. at Harvard University, where she was part of a team studying the Nag Hammadi scrolls, documents found in 1945 that shed light on early Christian debates on theology and practice.

Elaine Pagels received her Ph.D. from Harvard in 1970, went to teach at Barnard College in 1970 where she became the head of the religion department in 1974. In 1979 her book based on her work with the Nag Hammadi scrolls, The Gnostic Gospels, sold 400,000 copies and won numerous awards and acclaim. In this book, Elaine Pagels asserts that the differences between the gnostics and the orthodox Christians was more about politics and organization than theology.

In 1982, Pagels joined Princeton University as a professor of early Christian history. Aided by a MacArthur grant, she researched and wrote Adam, Eve, and the Serpent, which documented the shift in Christian history when Christians began to focus on a meaning of the Genesis story which stressed the sinfulness of human nature and sexuality.

In 1987, Pagel's son Mark died, after four years of illness, and the following year her husband, Heinz, died in a hiking accident. In part out of those experiences, she began working on the research leading to The Origin of Satan.

Elaine Pagels has continued to research and write about the theological shifts and battles within earlier Christianity. Her book, The Origin of Sin, published in 1995, is dedicated to her two children, David and Sarah, and in 1995 Pagels married Kent Greenawalt, a law professor at Columbia University.

Her Biblical work is both well-received as accessible and insightful, and criticized as making too much of marginal issues and too unorthodox.

In both The Gnostic Gospels and Adam, Eve, and the Serpent, Elaine Pagels examines the way that women have been viewed in Christian history, and thus these texts have been important in the feminist study of religion. The Origins of Satan is not so explicitly feminist. In that work, Elaine Pagels shows the way that the figure Satan became a way for Christians to demonize their religious opponents, the Jews and the unorthodox Christians.

- womenshistory.about.com/cs/religion/p/p_elaine_pagels.htm

[blaise]

We can't dispute the fact that Christians have done far more to harm their religious opponents than vice versa.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Disgruntled70sHab said:

I had to think about this and only one came to mind. It's an old BBC series called, "I Claudius" and it's based on the Roman emporer by the same name. I'm sure you know the storyline so I won't go further into it.

I read the book back in the late-80's and it remains in my library today. The series was brilliantly casted with Sir Derek Jacoby as Claudius and follows the Emporer's personal memoires very well.

Cheers.

Ah, a most excellent flashback. If you enjoyed this work it's almost a certainty that you would enjoy author Robert Graves' other works of historical fiction.

[franko]

Blaise said:

We can't dispute the fact that Christians have done far more to harm their religious opponents than vice versa.

Sure we can. And while we point to the fact that Christians are far from perfect (being human sinful by nature, we can also point to the many positives that Christians have brought into this world.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Blaise said:

We can't dispute the fact that Christians have done far more to harm their religious opponents than vice versa.

Your axe grows dull.

The purpose of this thread is to help people find new reading material in whatever area interests them, not to harangue them (if one feels irresistibly drawn to do so, the application of a modicum of gentle wit will better help the bitter herb to go down and forestall an angry retort).

So, what interesting reading material can you recommend on the subject of Christianity, or your religion of preference, Science? All the while with ease and elegance displaying the respect and humility any civilized person shows when sharing knowledge - think of yourself as an enlightened and generous despot (I find that quite often works for me).

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

I don't read as much as I should, so here are my favorite movies:

Dumb and Dummer; a story about Bettman and Goodenow.
A Night at the Roxbury; Bettman and Goodenow are on the list.
Up in Smoke; a story about the 2004-2005 NHL season.
Life of Brian; a story about people who take religeon too seriously.
Pink Panther Strikes Again; the French Police force at it's best.
A Fish called Wanda; Cleeses best work since Faulty Towers.

Best Television:

Faulty Towers
La Famille Plouffe

[blaise]

M. said:

Your axe grows dull.

The purpose of this thread is to help people find new reading material in whatever area interests them, not to harangue them (if one feels irresistibly drawn to do so, the application of a modicum of gentle wit will better help the bitter herb to go down and forestall an angry retort).

So, what interesting reading material can you recommend on the subject of Christianity, or your religion of preference, Science? All the while with ease and elegance displaying the respect and humility any civilized person shows when sharing knowledge - think of yourself as an enlightened and generous despot (I find that quite often works for me).

Elaine Pagels shows the way that the figure Satan became a way for Christians to demonize their religious opponents, the Jews and the unorthodox Christians.

If Pagels is correct, so am I. Why do Christians have to demonize other religions? When did it become a hateful religion? It wasn't so in the beginning but it became corrupted by power and turned to dominating others. Allow me my disillusionment. I have seen the seamy side of organized religion at first hand and I refuse to be conned further by people I do not respect.

Perhaps you have read about the sharp decline in ordinations, marriage ceremonies with a Catholic mass, church attendance, and Catholic schools in the US. Have you not noticed the mixed feelings the orthodoxy and rigidity have aroused, the realization that the church is sexist and male dominated, the murmurs of eagerness for married priests and women priests, the resistance to the proscription against contraception, corruption and scandals?

As for your other point, I have shared my knowledge generously on this thread, not only in recommending books but in providing basic advice on how to get published. You can look it up. Go ahead, write your own book. But I urge you first to read Lewis Thomas of you have any interest in science and curiosity about how to write imaginatively on scientific subjects.

Earlier in this thread Mikhail Bulgakov was discussed. Try Diaboliad, a collection of his short stories, as an introduction. One of the stories, The Fatal Eggs, is a droll admixture of science fiction and political sature.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

M. said:

Ah, a most excellent flashback. If you enjoyed this work it's almost a certainty that you would enjoy author Robert Graves' other works of historical fiction.

In the late 70's my friends and I (about 6 or 7 of us) used to gather at a different house every Saturday night to watch the episodes.

While we enjoyed the melodramatics of the series, most of us were minor history buffs of sorts. The historical references in the series tweeked enough interest in us to read up more and more on that period of time.

In fact it became an obession that dominated our summer. No guff; between dancing, beer and toots, we found time to get caught up on "I Claudius." It wasn't all that bad a balance really.

Not bad for a bunch of high school kids.

Cheers

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Blaise said:

As for your other point, I have shared my knowledge generously on this thread, not only in recommending books but in providing basic advice on how to get published. You can look it up. Go ahead, write your own book. But I urge you first to read Lewis Thomas of you have any interest in science and curiosity about how to write imaginatively on scientific subjects.

Earlier in this thread Mikhail Bulgakov was discussed. Try Diaboliad, a collection of his short stories, as an introduction. One of the stories, The Fatal Eggs, is a droll admixture of science fiction and political sature.

That's the spirit.

[Tattac]

I would recommend reading the Diaboliad anyway. To be honest I don't know how it can help anyone to write anything. It can serve only as an inspiration.

Umberto Eco, who has been frequently mentioned here, writes a lot about the art of writing fiction and language usage. The book I really enjoyed was named Six Walks in the Fictional Woods. Other names you can find here www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_works.html

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Disgruntled70sHab said:

In the late 70's my friends and I (about 6 or 7 of us) used to gather at a different house every Saturday night to watch the episodes.

While we enjoyed the melodramatics of the series, most of us were minor history buffs of sorts. The historical references in the series tweeked enough interest in us to read up more and more on that period of time.

In fact it became an obession that dominated our summer. No guff; between dancing, beer and toots, we found time to get caught up on "I Claudius." It wasn't all that bad a balance really.

Not bad for a bunch of high school kids.

Cheers

Seems like young Paul Martin and young George W Bush also enjoyed the series, though I've got to say that as actors neither of them have a patch on Derek Jacobi.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Tattac said:

Umberto Eco, who has been frequently mentioned here, writes a lot about the art of writing fiction and language usage. The book I really enjoyed was named Six Walks in the Fictional Woods. Other names you can find here www.themodernword.com/eco/eco_works.html

Thank you. That's the sort of thing I'm after.

What methods and practices do established writers use? How do they plot they books, develop characters, deal with writer's block, etc.?

It seems that the initial phrasing of my question may have been unclear.

[Tattac]

Can anyone recommend a good book, both fiction and non-fiction but not guide books, where action takes place in Barcelona?

[Disgruntled70sHab]

M. said:

Seems like young Paul Martin and young George W Bush also enjoyed the series, though I've got to say that as actors neither of them have a patch on Derek Jacobi.

An absolute incredible trigger when I saw Jacobi's name in the credits for Gladiator. I Claudius remains with me today as a fabulous story based on facts.

Like Bush, Martin has not been able to sell his acting prowess to the public. Unlike bush, however, it looks as if the Canadian public will be evaluating and passing judgement on his recent performances in a very short while.

In keeping with the theme, though, I'm still hell-bent on getting a copy of The Name of the Rose. Two thumbs up!

The Pagan Christ will have to wait.

Cheers.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Disgruntled70sHab said:

An absolute incredible trigger when I saw Jacobi's name in the credits for Gladiator. I Claudius remains with me today as a fabulous story based on facts.

Like Bush, Martin has not been able to sell his acting prowess to the public. Unlike bush, however, it looks as if the Canadian public will be evaluating and passing judgement on his recent performances in a very short while.

In keeping with the theme, though, I'm still hell-bent on getting a copy of The Name of the Rose. Two thumbs up!

The Pagan Christ will have to wait.

Cheers.

The Commitments, based on the novel by Paddy Doyle (highly recommended author - the two other titles in his Tarrytown Trilogy, The Snapper and The Van were also treated kindly on celluloid).

I remember going to see it when it came out a decade ago and walking out of the cinema grinning from ear to ear and feeling like I needed to put together a band. A guaranteed tonic for whatever ails you.

[Disgruntled70sHab]

M. said:

The Commitments, based on the novel by Paddy Doyle (highly recommended author - the two other titles in his Tarrytown Trilogy, The Snapper and The Van were also treated kindly on celluloid).

I remember going to see it when it came out a decade ago and walking out of the cinema grinning from ear to ear and feeling like I needed to put together a band. A guaranteed tonic for whatever ails you.

I really should be preparing for classes now. Sigh!

Here's a site that sums up the series.

I have another paperback entitled Lives of the Twelve Ceasars by Suetonius. I read this just after I joined the service and it's a good read as well.

Last post for today me thinks.

Cheers.

[blaise]

M. said:

Thank you. That's the sort of thing I'm after.

What methods and practices do established writers use? How do they plot they books, develop characters, deal with writer's block, etc.?

It seems that the initial phrasing of my question may have been unclear.

Characters come from 1) people in your own life, 2) reading the newspapers, watching TV, or conversing, and 3) your imagination.

Plots are often takeoffs on real life happenings as well as on imagination. For example, imagine that Québec really seceded and announced it was uniting with France. Scenes (and characters) shift from Québec to Ottawa to Paris to Washington. There is tension, threats of retaliation, etc. How would the crisis be resolved?

Writer's block usually isn't permanent. 1) It frequently disappears when confronted with deadline pressure, especially when payment is at stake. 2) Sometimes taking a day off brings one back refreshed. 3) The brute force approach of sitting down and putting words on paper (or the hard drive), no matter how inadequate they may seem at first, may produce a breakthrough after awhile. Sometimes writer's block is the product of perfectionism. One is afraid to do inferior work and therefore does nothing that could be subject to criticism or that doesn't meet one's own realistically high standards. Of course, it's helpful to know your own strengths and weaknesses. What can you reasonably expect of yourself? You know you're not Shakespeare but neither are you illiterate. So place yourself in a reasonably appropriate band of the spectrum and don't fret about not winning literary awards or not having the movie rights of your magnum opus picked up by a studio.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Tattac said:

Can anyone recommend a good book, both fiction and non-fiction but not guide books, where action takes place in Barcelona?

Travel bug biting?

www.bearcave.com/barcelona/books.html

www.readersfeast.com.au/featuredauthor.html

Red Barcelona

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Blaise said:

Characters come from 1) people in your own life, 2) reading the newspapers, watching TV, or conversing, and 3) your imagination.

Plots are often takeoffs on real life happenings as well as on imagination. For example, imagine that Québec really seceded and announced it was uniting with France. Scenes (and characters) shift from Québec to Ottawa to Paris to Washington. There is tension, threats of retaliation, etc. How would the crisis be resolved?

Writer's block usually isn't permanent. 1) It frequently disappears when confronted with deadline pressure, especially when payment is at stake. 2) Sometimes taking a day off brings one back refreshed. 3) The brute force approach of sitting down and putting words on paper (or the hard drive), no matter how inadequate they may seem at first, may produce a breakthrough after awhile. Sometimes writer's block is the product of perfectionism. One is afraid to do inferior work and therefore does nothing that could be subject to criticism or that doesn't meet one's own realistically high standards. Of course, it's helpful to know your own strengths and weaknesses. What can you reasonably expect of yourself? You know you're not Shakespeare but neither are you illiterate. So place yourself in a reasonably appropriate band of the spectrum and don't fret about not winning literary awards or not having the movie rights of your magnum opus picked up by a studio.

Obvious, but useful nonetheless. Thanks.

You speak as if you have written and been published. If so, what are the titles or subject matter?

What books on the process of writing by writers would you recommend?

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

Disgruntled70sHab said:

I really should be preparing for classes now. Sigh!

Here's a site that sums up the series.

I have another paperback entitled Lives of the Twelve Ceasars by Suetonius. I read this just after I joined the service and it's a good read as well.

Last post for today me thinks.

Cheers.

Nice link.

One good link deserves another. Here's an excellent bibliography of Robert Graves' oeuvre.

www.fantasticfiction.co.uk/authors/Robert_Graves.htm

[blaise]

M. said:

Obvious, but useful nonetheless. Thanks.

You speak as if you have written and been published. If so, what are the titles or subject matter?

My work has been published and I am well thought of in certain specialized circles but I choose not to provide the details. However, I believe I mentioned to you that many years ago I occasionally contributed articles to a long defunct hockey magazine. It was a lark, for which I received only nominal payment, but it enabled me to get press passes to NHL games and interview players in various cities to which I traveled in the course of my real work. The high spot of my brief hockey writing career came when my publisher invited me to have lunch with him and Scotty Bowman.

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

M. said:

What methods and practices do established writers use? How do they plot they books, develop characters, deal with writer's block, etc.?

Habbadasher:

I've found a couple of books of the type I was asking after on this forum. I've begun reading the first and am enjoying it and finding the author's perpspective gently inspirational.

If You Want to Write - Brenda Ueland

Bird by Bird - Anne Lamott

[franko]

Disgruntled70sHab said:

Thanks Franco. I've also read that he basis his theory on ancient Egyptian myths as well.

Cheers.

I knew I'd eventually come across something that would remind me of the authorship of the theory:

The sources Harpur used to write The Pagan Christ are just slightly more plentiful and a little more "ancient" then [Dan] Brown's [The DaVinci Code], but they are equally as tenuous. Harpur uses the writings of two 19th century authors, Godfrey Higgins and Gerald Massey, and one from the 20th century, Alvin Boyd Kuhn, to bolster his claim that the life of Jesus was a fiction based on Egyptian myths. While the works of these authors corroborate one and other, no one else seems to agree with their facts.

The academic legitimacy of these authors and their works was first called into question by W. W. Gasque, professor of early Christianity and co-founder of Regent College.

Conducting a survey of world's leading Egyptologists, Gasque discovered not one "had ever heard of Kuhn, Higgins or Massey!" Further investigation of Harpur's sources and research methods revealed that "[v]irtually none of the alleged evidence for the views put forward in the Pagan Christ is documented by reference to original sources … The notes abound with errors and omissions. If you look for supporting evidence for a particular point made by the author, it is not there."

article

[M. Beaux-Eaux]

mrbozo said:

Tattac said:

Baudolino by Umberto Eco

How do you find it? I received it as a gift from a friend a couple of years ago. It is presently sitting on my coffee table. I began reading it a few months back but was defeated by it. Funny, because Name of the Rose and Foucault's Pendulum I just galloped through (you may enjoy Travels in Hyperreality, a collection of his essays - if you haven't already read it). Perhaps I'll try Baudolino again when a space clears up on my list.

Just finished rereading Superstoe by William Borden, and Vonnegut's Cat's Cradle. I have now plunged into Baudolino, and am being swept along. What a difference a break makes!

[roke]

Just finished reading Life of Pi a couple minutes ago and I must say that it was a terrific book. It took me a couple days to get into it but by the end I was hooked. Ending is a little, well, bizarre would probably be the word I would use to describe it but I will not go into details in case anyone plans to read it and doesn't want it ruined for them.

[duster]

I enjoyed Life of Pi as well. Like you, it took me a while to get into it.

I've taken advantage of a light schedule in the past few weeks to catch up on some reading. Re-read Yourcenar's "Memoires d'Hadrien" and Alan Moorehead's "The White Nile". I was pleasantly surprised by Julian Barnes' "The Lemon Table Stories".

Now deeply into Simon Winchester's "Krakatoa". Fascinating.

I'm intrigued about Bulgakov. Thank you for the information. I think I'll try the short stories first.

It's interesting that Elaine Pagels was brought up. I read "Beyond Belief" some time ago and I really enjoyed it. I recommend it to anyone who has an interest in this area. She writes clearly and is quite thought provoking.

A break from engineering drawings and mathematics, for sure.

[Tattac]

I kind of miss this thread

I am going on vacation next week and will need something to read. Something not too serious but definitely not trash. Maybe a detective story? Can you guys help me?