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Post by Cranky on Dec 13, 2005 9:35:07 GMT -5
The other day, I saw an interview with either the party leader or one of his hunchos. As usual, they were talking about how the Green Party will clean up the enviroment and turn everything into The Garden of Eden. Yup..... They want to convert all the taxis in Canada into hybrids. GREAT IDEA! They said that Canada has 25,000 taxis and they would save the average taxi driver $1,500 per month in gas cost while reducing pollution. They would force or subsidize this move if they were in power. They just forgot to mention a few things..... Most taxis in Toronto and a lot of taxis in Canada are run on propane. The by product of propane is WATER. It is as clean as you can get with no costly add on pollution controls. Propane is also cheaper to run on then gas by 40% and the engines last two to three times longer. Hybrids require battery replacements and at the rate taxis would use them up, it means that they would replace them twice a year. Every time they did replace them, it could cost several thousand dollars. So that $15,000 in ADDITIONAL expenses. Plus batteries use toxic materials for their construction. Plus hybrid cars are MORE polluting then propane cars. Plus they are more expensive to buy. And last but not least, since no one actually builds these taxis right now, they will use tax dollars to create the factories that will make these taxis. That is how the will create a "Green Industry"? In conclusion...... The Green Party will force taxi drivers to pay BIG MONEY to get a vehicle that is MORE polluting, cost WAY MORE to maintain, use toxic materials, are less efficient then what they are currently using and use our hard earned tax dollars to build them. Brilliant, I tell you! BRILLIANT! I can't wait to hear even more of their brillliant "Green" solutions.....  |
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Post by roke on Dec 13, 2005 12:55:35 GMT -5
Did you tell this to the representatives of the Green Party? If not you should have.
Bah nevermind, I misread the beginning of your post HA. Though they were going door-to-door and you talked to them. Sorry for the confusion.
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Post by Skilly on Dec 13, 2005 14:12:09 GMT -5
Stupid Green Party!!
The provincial organizer and most of the candidates they had lined up for the upcoming federal elections quit 2 weeks ago after the "Great POOBAH" of the Green Party came out with his policies on the seal hunt (dont get me started on all the WWF propoganda), and his wish to see cod on the endangered species list.
They'll be lucky to get a vote down here.
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Post by franko on Dec 13, 2005 16:00:23 GMT -5
They'll be lucky to get a vote down here. Who cares? You aren't in Toronto. Sometimes I think that they're only faux green. Rumor still exists that the GP is merely the Mulroney Conservatives dressed in a different color. |
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Dec 13, 2005 16:05:40 GMT -5
Rumor still exists that the GP is merely the Mulroney Conservatives dressed in a different color. Leprechauns! Hide your gold! |
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Post by Toronthab on Dec 13, 2005 16:44:29 GMT -5
Stupid Green Party!! The provincial organizer and most of the candidates they had lined up for the upcoming federal elections quit 2 weeks ago after the "Great POOBAH" of the Green Party came out with his policies on the seal hunt (dont get me started on all the WWF propoganda), and his wish to see cod on the endangered species list. They'll be lucky to get a vote down here. Green and bare it.... |
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Post by Cranky on Dec 13, 2005 18:35:37 GMT -5
Did you tell this to the representatives of the Green Party? If not you should have. Bah nevermind, I misread the beginning of your post HA. Though they were going door-to-door and you talked to them. Sorry for the confusion. I would just love to see them in my front door spewing bullsh*t. Mind you, I wouldn't know what to do first, cry, laugh, get my water cannon..... Meh...I think my house has been black listed by ALL the parties. Could it be my NO BULLSH*T sign and the chalk outline on the driveway?  |
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Post by Cranky on Dec 13, 2005 19:17:38 GMT -5
Sometimes I think that they're only faux green. . Huh? I thought you were going to vote Green? And here I was, ready to filibuster you until you summited to voting Conservative. Not that I can stand them either but...... better then the vote sucking vamp...  |
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Post by franko on Dec 13, 2005 23:21:48 GMT -5
Sometimes I think that they're only faux green. . Huh? I thought you were going to vote Green? And here I was, ready to filibuster you until you summited to voting Conservative. Not that I can stand them either but...... better then the vote sucking vamp... I'm still unsure whether I should waste my vote on the Green Party (so they can have my $1.75) or on the Blue Conservative Party (so the vote sucking vamp thinks that Harper actually has some support in Ottawa). I'm in the McGuinty's riding (federally and provincially) so I have a feeling who is going to win big time. Fillabuster away. Maybe I'll do a Richard Pryor in Brewster's Millions and vote  |
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Post by PTH on Dec 14, 2005 0:50:40 GMT -5
The other day, I saw an interview with either the party leader or one of his hunchos. As usual, they were talking about how the Green Party will clean up the enviroment and turn everything into The Garden of Eden. Yup..... ..... Most taxis in Toronto and a lot of taxis in Canada are run on propane. .... I've yet to see or hear of a propane taxi, and I frequently take cabs for work, and have done so in Montreal, Quebec City and Ottawa. Toronto isn't the center of the universe, you know. |
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Post by Cranky on Dec 14, 2005 2:05:23 GMT -5
The other day, I saw an interview with either the party leader or one of his hunchos. As usual, they were talking about how the Green Party will clean up the enviroment and turn everything into The Garden of Eden. Yup..... ..... Most taxis in Toronto and a lot of taxis in Canada are run on propane. .... I've yet to see or hear of a propane taxi, and I frequently take cabs for work, and have done so in Montreal, Quebec City and Ottawa. Toronto isn't the center of the universe, you know. Toronto IS the center of the universe, I know because the Laff fans told me so! There is nothing distinct or different about "propane taxis". They are ordinary cars that have been modified to run on propane. It cost about a thousand dollars to do so and any car can be modified. You may have been driven around in one and never known it. It's even CHEAPER to run cars on natural gas. You can actually get a natural gas pump and charge your car from your gas pipeline at home. Taxis and delivery truck fleets actually have high pressure tanks that they refuel their vehicles from. In fact, if the Green Party had HALF a brain, they would be telling us how practical and cost efficient and blah, blah, blah was to convert all the cars into natural gas. That makes a lot of sense and in the long term, there is a cost saving AND a cleaner enviroment. But NOOOOO, they want to sound "sexy" by yelping about the "hybrid solution". Next, they will tell us about the "hydrogen economy". Another set catch words that really means nothing and in final analysis cost more to implement and needs masive nuclear or coal plants to produce the hydrogen. About the "hybrid solution".... It is a GREAT selling gimmick developed by the Japanese car industry. It actually works but the hidden costs is that you need to actually replace the batteries about once every five years. Since a lot of buyers just lease their cars for 3 years, they figure that it doesn't matter to them anyway. The fact remains that in five years, those toxic filled batteries have to be replaced and it's a several thousand dolllar expense. If you add the energy consumed in making that battery pack, it's a net loser as far as energy used. The REAL short term solution is to convert all the cars into natural gas. A VW sized car on natural gas will cost about a third as much to run as a regular sized car and the engine will last twice as long. Of course, the reality of today is that governments on ALL levels make a lot of money on gas and diesel taxes. Over half the cost of these feuls are taxes upon taxes. If everyone was to convert to natural gas, the governments will tax the living hell out of it. The other fact is that as oil prices rise, so do the TAXES. In fact, since you will be able to charge your natural gas car from home, they will not be able to control the "on the road" taxes because natural gas is also used for home heating. People will uprise if they charge that much tax in home heating. Ergo, governments on all levels rather push "hybrids" running on gas and still collecting a pound of tax flesh then everyone converting to CLEANER natural gas. I drive a diesel car since 1980. If natural gas became a standard option, I would convert to it instantly. If I had a need for small company trucks, I would have converted them. You see, there are cleaner, cost effective, intellegent solutions to be had RIGHT NOW but self interests and bullSaperlipopette seems to always win. msnbc.msn.com/id/5960905/ |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Dec 14, 2005 12:01:55 GMT -5
I've yet to see or hear of a propane taxi, and I frequently take cabs for work, and have done so in Montreal, Quebec City and Ottawa. Toronto isn't the center of the universe, you know. Toronto IS the center of the universe, I know because the Laff fans told me so! msnbc.msn.com/id/5960905/Toronto IS the center of the universe, also known as Black Hole, sucks everything in and nothing can escape (except for the Stanley Cup which leaves the Hall of Fame annually.) |
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Post by Vinna on Dec 14, 2005 13:09:22 GMT -5
Natural gas may burn cleaner than diesel or regular gas, but it is still a non-renewable resorce. The solution lies in finding a proper energy source that is derived from a renewable resource.
I'm sorry my friend, but if you believe that the government would not tax or regulate a natural gas propeled vehicle, you are badly mistaken.
I envision some kind of a metering system hooked up to your natural gas facility at home that would monitor how much gas is going into the home and how much is being diverted for other uses. This is the government after all. They would not let one red cent pass them by.
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Dec 14, 2005 13:10:20 GMT -5
Depending on one's theoretical perspective Toronto is also called the black hole of the universe, or in more prosaic language the ***hole of the universe.
Q: Why doesn't Vancouver slide into the Pacific Ocean?
A: Because Alberta sucks so hard.
It's not spelled "confederation", it's spelled "con-federation".
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Post by MC Habber on Dec 14, 2005 16:14:51 GMT -5
The battery pack of the 2004 Prius is guaranteed for 100,000 miles (160,000 km) or 8 years, although Toyota has stated that they expect it to last 15 years. The warranty is extended to 150,000 miles (240,000 km) or 10 years for Prius in California and several other states that adopted the Californian emission control standards.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PriusTo purchase a brand new hybrid battery from a dealer, the price for a Honda Insight Hybrid battery is around $3600.
In November of 2005, when asked about the price of a new Prius battery, Toyota spokeswoman Mona Richard said, "The service parts price for a new battery is $3000, but we have not had to sell a battery yet."
As one would expect, there are starting to be sources for used hybrid batteries which can be purchased for considerably less. hybridcars.about.com/od/hybridcarfaq/f/batterycost.htm
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Post by M. Beaux-Eaux on Dec 14, 2005 20:09:36 GMT -5
GreenShift Licenses Bioreactor Technology for CO2 Scrubbing, Biofuel ProductionDecember 12, 2005 GreenShift Corporation, a business development company that is aggressively expanding its portfolio of renewable or sustainable energy companies, has acquired rights to Ohio University’s patented cynaobacteria-based bioreactor process for reducing greenhouse gases emissions from fossil-fueled combustion processes. In concept, this is very similar to GreenFuel Technologies’ “Emissions-to-Biofuels” reactor; the implementation is, however, quite different. Using $1 million in U.S. Department of Energy funding, assistance from Keith Cooksey, a microbiologist at Montana State University who had been researching bacteria found in the mineral hot springs of Yellowstone National Park, and a system of parabolic mirrors, fiber optic cables and slabs of acrylic plastic called glow plates developed by scientists at Oak Ridge National Laboratory, Dr. David Bayless at OU designed a bioreactor based on a newly discovered iron-loving cyanobacterium (blue-green algae), tentatively named Chroogloeocystis siderophila, that Cooksey discovered thriving in a hot stream at Yellowstone. The algae grow in the bioreactor on membranes of woven fibers resembling window screens interspersed between the Oak Ridge glow plates. Capillary action wicks water to the algae, fiber optic cables channel sunlight into the glow plates, and ducts bring in the hot flue gas. Spreading the cyanobacteria on membranes maximizes surface area for growth, minimizes water and optimizes the use of sunlight. This enables us to take one square meter of sunlight and spread it out over 10 square meters of growth surface. —Dr. Bayless The algae use the available carbon dioxide and water to grow new algae, giving off pure oxygen and water vapor in the process. The organisms also absorb nitrogen oxide and sulfur dioxide, which contribute to acid rain. A prototype is capable of handling 140 cubic meters of flue gas per minute, an amount equal to the exhaust from 50 cars or a 3 megawatt power plant. Once the algae grow to maturity, they fall to the bottom of the bioreactor and are harvested for other uses—processing into biodiesel, used as feedstock for gasification, or for other purposes such as fertilizer. GreenFuel, by contrast, uses an implementation of an air-lift reactor (ALR), which is a type of pneumatic contacting device in which fluid circulation takes place in a defined cyclic pattern through channels built specifically for this purpose. The process, called photomodulation, rotates the algae in and out of the sunlight, rather than bringing the sunlight to the algae, as in the GreenShift-OU system. The GreenShift-OU system, however, should require less of a structural footprint to acquire the needed sunlight. The GreenFuel bioreactor consists of a riser tube or channel, a gas separator, and a downcomer tube or channel, applied in a triangular configuration. The difference in the apparent fluid densities between the riser and downcomer provides the driving force for liquid circulation. GreenFuel inaugurated its first beta test at the 20MW MIT Cogeneration Plant, known as MIT Cogen, on 22 July 2004. Independent testing documented that the beta system delivered 86% NOx reduction under all conditions, along with 50% CO2 reduction on rainy days, and 82% CO2 reduction on sunny days. - www.greencarcongress.com/emissions/Death to dinosaurs (again).
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Post by Cranky on Dec 16, 2005 10:11:45 GMT -5
The battery pack of the 2004 Prius is guaranteed for 100,000 miles (160,000 km) or 8 years, although Toyota has stated that they expect it to last 15 years. The warranty is extended to 150,000 miles (240,000 km) or 10 years for Prius in California and several other states that adopted the Californian emission control standards.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PriusTo purchase a brand new hybrid battery from a dealer, the price for a Honda Insight Hybrid battery is around $3600.
In November of 2005, when asked about the price of a new Prius battery, Toyota spokeswoman Mona Richard said, "The service parts price for a new battery is $3000, but we have not had to sell a battery yet."
As one would expect, there are starting to be sources for used hybrid batteries which can be purchased for considerably less. hybridcars.about.com/od/hybridcarfaq/f/batterycost.htm Well....just to make sure that Viagra didn't ruin the lonely few brain cells left....... I phoned Toyota Canada, Customer Service. 416-438-6320 Pruis hybrid battery pack costs $3,700 Canadian plus installation. It will run into $4,500 installed. If the electric motor needs replacing along with the battery, the so called "hybrid system", then it will run $7,500 total (installed) and that's where my original figure came from. The battery is warrantied for 160,000km but they are assuming mixed highway and city driving. If the car is used ONLY for city driving (taxi) THEN there is more cycling thus more wear on it. Expect no more then half life out of it. Since taxis routinely cover 150-200,000 clicks a year, then a couple of replacement a year are in order. I also asked Toyota customer service if he ever heard of someone using a Prius hybrid as a taxi and he said he never heard of one yet. That doesn't mean someone is not using one somewhere. Bottom line though is that it still makes more sense to use propane or better yet, natural gas. The engines will last twice as long and no technology barriers/headaches. Of course the Green Party can always use our tax dollars to subsidize the "hybrid" taxi industry. After all, what are politicians good for if not wasting our money for their pet projects? |
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Post by Habs_fan_in_LA on Dec 17, 2005 14:04:03 GMT -5
Is the green party composed of intellectuals?
Little green men from a tiny flying saucer who come to Earth to save the polar bears.
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Post by PTH on Dec 17, 2005 17:57:12 GMT -5
I've yet to see or hear of a propane taxi, and I frequently take cabs for work, and have done so in Montreal, Quebec City and Ottawa. Toronto isn't the center of the universe, you know. Toronto IS the center of the universe, I know because the Laff fans told me so! There is nothing distinct or different about "propane taxis". They are ordinary cars that have been modified to run on propane. It cost about a thousand dollars to do so and any car can be modified. You may have been driven around in one and never known it. Since taxis routinely cover 150-200,000 clicks a year, then a couple of replacement a year are in order.... Well, I always chat with the drivers about: -their cars and the current mileage -gas prices. So I'd know, if they were running on anything else than gas. And trust me, they don't get close to 150K a year - at least not in Quebec City. I think Toronto might have a few specialised natural gas stations, but without that infrastructure, it's just not possible for cabs to change their fuel type. Toronto really isn't the center of the universe, or even the only spot in the country that counts, even though your local media won't let you know that..... |
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Post by cigarviper on Dec 22, 2005 23:43:20 GMT -5
At the risk of being a nit-picker:
Actual emissions will vary with
engine design; these numbers
reflect the potential reductions offered
by propane, relative to conventional
gasoline.
• Potentially lower toxic, carbon
dioxide (CO2), carbon monoxide
(CO), and nonmethane hydrocarbon
(NMHC) emissions.
• Rich calibration shows high NMHC
and CO emissions, but lower nitrogen
oxide (NOx) emissions.
• Lean calibration shows slightly
higher NOx emissions, but lower
CO and NHMC emissions.
* Estimates based on propane’s inherently
“cleaner” chemical properties with an engine
that takes full advantage of these fuel properties.
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Post by Cranky on Dec 23, 2005 13:39:18 GMT -5
At the risk of being a nit-picker: Actual emissions will vary with engine design; these numbers reflect the potential reductions offered by propane, relative to conventional gasoline. • Potentially lower toxic, carbon dioxide (CO2), carbon monoxide (CO), and nonmethane hydrocarbon (NMHC) emissions. • Rich calibration shows high NMHC and CO emissions, but lower nitrogen oxide (NOx) emissions. • Lean calibration shows slightly higher NOx emissions, but lower CO and NHMC emissions. * Estimates based on propane’s inherently “cleaner” chemical properties with an engine that takes full advantage of these fuel properties. I never argue with a man who proves my point. Nope!  So let's see, we can spend billions on some "high tech, green technology" yapped about by the Green Party or we can do something about it RIGHT NOW for a few hundred dollars per car. And the infrastructure is half way there. In fact, if we talk about natural gas, you can be you own filling station because a great majority is already on the grid. Did I mention that we have an enormous amount of it? In fact, be careful when you walk around Alberta, it can ignite! |
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Post by cigarviper on Dec 23, 2005 16:02:25 GMT -5
C'mon guys. The Liberals are the only choice and you know it. The tree huggers are way out of touch and the only good tory I've met was a suppository. We need a man that can stand up to Bush and his douchebag entourage. Triple the military budget and let's go claim our north once and for all. Canada needs to stop feeding off the American nipple and grow up. Now is the time!
L-I-B-E-R-A-L!
L-I-B-E-R-A-L!
L-I-B-E-R-A-L!
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Post by Cranky on Dec 23, 2005 17:30:33 GMT -5
C'mon guys. The Liberals are the only choice and you know it. The tree huggers are way out of touch and the only good tory I've met was a suppository. We need a man that can stand up to Bush and his douchebag entourage. Triple the military budget and let's go claim our north once and for all. Canada needs to stop feeding off the American nipple and grow up. Now is the time! L-I-B-E-R-A-L! L-I-B-E-R-A-L! L-I-B-E-R-A-L! Oh sure, torture us! Well, the other day I ws watching a special on Abu Ghraib and I could certainly identify with the guy on the leash.  |
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Post by franko on Dec 23, 2005 17:46:56 GMT -5
We need a man that can stand up to Bush, and his douchebag entourage. Well, Martin does have a douchebag entourage! Three hundred dollars still won't get you very far. Yup, time to find a new wealthy trading partner. Umm . . . umm . . . any suggestions? |
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Post by roke on Dec 23, 2005 19:01:23 GMT -5
Yup, time to find a new wealthy trading partner. Umm . . . umm . . . any suggestions? There's a giant, growing country accross the Pacific exporting a lot of their cheap crap to us, maybe we could do the same?  |
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Post by Cranky on Dec 23, 2005 22:54:15 GMT -5
Yup, time to find a new wealthy trading partner. Umm . . . umm . . . any suggestions? There's a giant, growing country accross the Pacific exporting a lot of their cheap crap to us, maybe we could do the same? There is no way they are going to take Dagenais. |
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Post by seventeen on Dec 27, 2005 3:37:33 GMT -5
I never argue with a man who proves my point. Nope! So let's see, we can spend billions on some "high tech, green technology" yapped about by the Green Party or we can do something about it RIGHT NOW for a few hundred dollars per car. And the infrastructure is half way there. In fact, if we talk about natural gas, you can be you own filling station because a great majority is already on the grid. Did I mention that we have an enormous amount of it? In fact, be careful when you walk around Alberta, it can ignite! Eliminate the gun registry and it pays for everything, including my substantial consulting fees. |
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Post by franko on Jan 17, 2006 15:34:37 GMT -5
ironicMother Nature leaves Green candidate in the darkLast Updated Tue, 17 Jan 2006 15:13:12 EST
CBC NewsLong hours on the campaign trail are exhausting many federal election candidates, but one Green Party candidate in southwestern Manitoba has literally run out of energy.
Janine Gibson lives in an energy-efficient home that's "off the grid" – that is, it's powered by only solar and wind energy. However, an extended period of cloudy skies and calm winds left the Provencher candidate without electricity for a 22-day stretch in December.
During the days of no sun or wind, Gibson functioned with tiny, energy-friendly LED lights, candles, and oil lamps. She says she turned off her electrical phone, didn't touch her computer, kept wood burning in the fireplace, and climbed into bed earlier than usual.
"You enter a slightly more meditative place. Like all fishers and farmers and people who work close with nature know, you just sort of ride out what nature gives you," says Gibson.
Campaigning in the dark
Thanks to a few gusts of wind over the past few days, Gibson says the power is back on in her 65 square metre house. But she says the extended power outage didn't affect her campaigning strategy.
"It was over the Christmas holidays, so it was a quieter time in the campaign. I was just glad that most of the candidates decided to take a bit of time off."
Gibson says her environmentally friendly campaign strategy doesn't rely a lot on signs, handing out leaflets, and driving around to visit constituents. Rather she prefers a "word of mouth" approach, something she could manage with her old-fashioned, non-electrical phone.
Gibson, a member of the Northern Sun Farm Co-op near Steinbach, says she has no desire to hook up with Manitoba Hydro.
She says her house has five solar panels on the roof, which each generate 50 watts of power. A wind generator on a 24-metre tower also produces 200 to 1000 watts of energy, depending on the strength of the wind. The energy produced is then stored in four deep-cycle batteries.
Gibson blames traditional hydroelectric generating processes for a lot of environmental and socio-economic damage, saying water dams create flooding, which creates more greenhouse gases. She also says the flooding has forced the relocation of Native communities.
"When people pay their relatively cheap Manitoba Hydro bill they don't realize that," says Gibson. "I think for a fair price, they should include a lot of the community development and healing work that so many of our Native communities need."
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