New math.

[Cranky]

MATH CLASS


Last week I purchased a burger and fries at McDonalds for $3.58

The counter girl took my $4.00 and I pulled 8 cents from my pocket and gave it to her. She stood there, holding the nickel and 3 pennies. While looking at the screen on her register, I sensed her discomfort and tried to tell her to just give me two quarters, but she hailed the manager for help.

While he tried to explain the transaction to her, she stood there and cried.

Why do I tell you this?

Because of the evolution in teaching math since the
1950s:


Teaching Math In 1950

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price. What is his profit?



Teaching Math In 1960

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is 4/5 of the price, or $80. What
is his profit?



Teaching Math In 1970

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His cost of production is $80. Did he make a profit?



Teaching Math In 1980

A logger sells a truckload of lumber for $100. His
cost of production is $80 and his profit is $20 Your
assignment: Underline the number 20.



Teaching Math In 1990 till now.

A logger cuts down a beautiful forest because he is selfish and inconsiderate and cares nothing for the habitat of the poor animals or the preservation of our precious woodlands.

He does this so he can make a profit of $20. What do you think of this way of making a living?

Topic for class participation after answering the question:
How did the birds and squirrels feel as the logger cut down their homes?
(There are no wrong answers.)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The above would be funny except for one thing. I have hired high school graduates who need to use their fingers to add and subtract. In fact, one guy told me that he couldn't help take inventory because "the high numbers confused me". So I asked him how could he possibly finish high school without a grasp of math and he told me that his teachers were "understanding" and "sympathetic".

Am I the only one that things there is something wrong with this? Have our schools become assembly line without regard to the end product?

[MC Habber]

Having completed high school in BC not so long ago, I can say that there is an enourmous variance. The kind of education you receive depends on the quality of your teachers, and unfortunately, the minimal standard that needs to be met is pretty darn low. If you don't particularly care about school and don't happen to have good teachers, you can graduate while barely being able to read, basically, with what I would consider to be a grade 7 education. I don't believe calculus is part of the standard curriculum here at all - in other parts of the world kids start to learn calculus as young as 12 or 13, but here we aren't (apparently) smart enough to learn it when we're 17. And it seemed to me when I was in school that my grade wasn't as "good" as the grade ahead of us and that each successive year after us saw the students get progressively dumber

Having said all that, I have brothers who are still in school and I've always been amazed by how much more advanced the material they learn is compared to what I learned. I swear they've learned things as kids that I didn't learn until university, and this is at several different schools in different places, so maybe there's been some improvement.

[Cranky]

I remember learning geometry in Greece that wasn't taught here until grade eleven.

We have the tools to teach at a much more sophisticated level then when I went to school 40 years ago. Perhaps I am unlucky enough to find the exceptional math challenged employees in my area. It's not like I need any great math to run my business. A pallet has three columns of 400 widgets per column and the next thing you know, they need a calculator to figure it out how many widgets on a pallet. Why? This is grade 3 math. Perhaps kids are smarter today in ways that was not important in my time but still, not learning math basics is not excusable. Perhaps it's the schooling system or perhaps it's the parents but whatever it is, I know one thing for sure. In Europe, a lot more emphasis is put on math then in NA.

[PTH]

habsaddict said:

I remember learning geometry in Greece that wasn't taught here until grade eleven.

We have the tools to teach at a much more sophisticated level then when I went to school 40 years ago. Perhaps I am unlucky enough to find the exceptional math challenged employees in my area. It's not like I need any great math to run my business. A pallet has three columns of 400 widgets per column and the next thing you know, they need a calculator to figure it out how many widgets on a pallet. Why? This is grade 3 math. Perhaps kids are smarter today in ways that was not important in my time but still, not learning math basics is not excusable. Perhaps it's the schooling system or perhaps it's the parents but whatever it is, I know one thing for sure. In Europe, a lot more emphasis is put on math then in NA.

It depends. I know that Quebec had tremendous scores in math at the international level (ie, top 3 or top 5, behind the likes of Japan and South Korea, as I recall), until a recent (past 5 years or so) reform hurt our education system badly.

Still, I know that my ability to guess the price for something with taxes is beyond most cashiers I come across. They look at the change I give them, type it into their little registers, and give back what it says to give back.

If there were a bug in those machines where they'd give back 10x more than we gave in the first place, millions would be lost before someone realised there was a problem (except if it's a customer who wonders why he's getting 67,45$ back when he gave a 20 for a Mars bar)

[duster]

Having experienced the same sort of thing as HA when hiring students through the years, I was at first astonished to find so many poorly educated so-called graduates. Yet these same kids knew computers inside out and could program in C. Clearly, no one got dumber.

Off the top of my head, I can think of a few things that have changed since I was in school:

- The advent of multiple choice exams has eliminated, in many ways, the ability to express thoughts clearly. Grammar and spelling issues aside, it goes a long way towards explaining why some high school graduates have a difficult time writing a paper later in university or even just composing a basic memo at work. In my experience, you seldom see a multiple choice exam in a British Public School or a French Lycee.

- Calculators are introduced in math classes without some students fully understanding the logic associated with a given calculation. I'll use trigonometry as an example. In the case of basic arithmetic, practice makes perfect and, after a while, you can do it in your head. There is no practice when the calculator does all the work. Unsurprisingly, some math tests are now multiple choice. I hear the tests are now made harder by removing "all of the above" as a possible answer...

- The emphasis seems to be about keeping kids in school at all costs. Admirable as this may be, it's done with the lowest common denominator in mind and the standards are lowered to quasi absurd levels in some cases. Teachers are "understanding" and "sympathetic". Moreover, I think Canada and the U.S. may be the only places in the world where being smart in High School is not necessarily a good thing at a social level. Compare this to Japan, China, Korea and some Western European countries where education is put on a pedestal.

Meanwhile, I've learned the words "kewl", "cuz" and "en2k" from my nephew. It's a brave new world...

[MC Habber]

duster said:

Compare this to Japan, China, Korea and some Western European countries where education is put on a pedestal.

This reminds me of a fascinating article I read about a consequence of putting too much value on education and "success." In Japan, from tens of thousands to as many as a million young people, 80% of them male, have retreated to their bedrooms and remain there for literally years, some for as long as 15 years. The phenomenon is compared to anorexia, which while common here, is almost nonexistant there. The article was at select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50D11F834540C768DDDA80894DE404482 but now it seems you have to pay for access, so, read this instead.

Teenage boys in Japan's cities are turning into modern hermits - never leaving their rooms. Pressure from schools and an inability to talk to their families are suggested causes. Phil Rees visits the country to see what the "hikikomori" condition is all about.

I knew him only as the boy in the kitchen.

His mother, Yoshiko, wouldn't tell me his name, fearful that neighbours in this Tokyo suburb might discover her secret.

Her son is 17 years old. Three years ago he was unhappy in school and began to play truant.

Then one day, he walked into the family's kitchen, shut the door and refused to leave.

Families adjust

Since then, he hasn't left the room or allowed anyone in.

The family have since built a new kitchen - at first they had to cook on a makeshift stove or eat take away food.

[Tattac]

duster said:

Compare this to Japan, China, Korea and some Western European countries where education is put on a pedestal.

Hey! What about Eastern European countries?!

[Rimmer]

I would agree that european, especially eastern european or former communist countries, put a lot more emphasis on education. part of it certainly comes from the fact that we couldn't show the west how communism is great by displaying our wealth and prosperity but instead thought we could show our 'superiority' throught science, education, sport...

still, while the idea behind it certainly was not a great one, the effect was that education became an important part of our culture and in my country, and many other european countries I believe, it's still available to everyone, meaning that even college education is free for all. many people go to college that otherwise wouldn't and that certainly helps raise the level of education.

R.

[roke]

duster said:

- Calculators are introduced in math classes without some students fully understanding the logic associated with a given calculation. I'll use trigonometry as an example. In the case of basic arithmetic, practive makes perfect and, after a while, you can do it in your head. There is no practice when the calculator does all the work. Unsurprisingly, some math tests are now multiple choice. I hear the tests are now made harder by removing "all of the above" as a possible answer...

You can do frreaking trigonometry without a calculator? I remember being taught only a few of the "non-easy" angles, that is 30,45 and 60 degree angles. Other than that and angles like 90 and 0 degrees I probably would need a calculator. And being a youngin' on this board I finished high school math 2 years ago.


The main problem with what HA just experienced was, in my oppinion, that calculators are used before the students know how to multiply, divide, and perhaps add/subtract.


I have to get going but I will expand when I get back.

[Rimmer]

just to illustrate it, when I was in high-school (10-15 years ago), calculators weren't allowed. we even had to calculate a square root without it. btw, I had 5 math classes a week in all 4 years of high school.

R.

[duster]

tattac said:

duster said:

Compare this to Japan, China, Korea and some Western European countries where education is put on a pedestal.

Hey! What about Eastern European countries?!

You're right, of course...

I was basing it only on my experience. I've lived in Western Europe and a lot of my co-workers are Asians.

[Tattac]

rimmer said:

just to illustrate it, when I was in high-school (10-15 years ago), calculators weren't allowed. we even had to calculate a square root without it. btw, I had 5 math classes a week in all 4 years of high school.

R.

Calculators were absolutely prohibited when I went to high school ( I finished it in 1992). We had to calculate everything without them, even the beginnings of trigonometry which we had to take for some reason. Square roots were pretty easy as far as I remember, not that I can do it now I remember having several classes of algebra, geometry, physics and chemistry a week and wondering why would I need it in my life. I was right, I didn't need it. But on the other hand perhaps it made me smarter...hopefully...

But I bet calculators are not prohibited anymore. I believe it's impossible and doesn't make sence to do it now.

[Polarice]

I have to agree with you HA, I'm also a business owner and I'm finding it very concerning the amount of kids graduating and not being able to perform basic math.

I had one kid here a couple of months ago filling out his time card, he had to ask how many hours there was between 12:30 and 5:00!!

[Habs_fan_in_LA]

The same kids who can't pass high school math know how to write tight code in C++ (as pointed out), can divide a kilo into dime bags and calculate the 15% for stolen goods at the pawn shop. They can squeeze 1,000 songs onto 20Gb Ipods and program numbers into their cell phones before they text message faster than we could send morse code.
Like the Canadiens, they have to be motivated in the right direction.

[Skilly]

I did three years of advanced math in high school 1988-1990 (sadly never touched calculus until university) and all we concentrated on was proofs. Everything was prove this formula, prove this theorem ..... now we did other stuff too, but for the most part calculators would be useless for most of our curriculum. Always loved math .... guess thats why I did engineering.

But I agree with HA. The young 'uns today are in a "let's dumb it down so we dont have to make them feel stupid" society.